It was in my bible slid behind an old wow cartoon I had cut out from a grape vine....lol
I have a whole box full of twi trivia....the old flyers and programs from 10 yrs of roa...wow bands...tickets...promos....the old wow book, the new wow book....articles....sound out...adv class....lol don`t ask my why I keep the garbage :)
I have an old box of reel to reel sunday service...int class...etc...probably every book or mag put out in the late70s through early 90s.
stickers...small booklets...witnessing cards retemorie cards...if I ever figure out how to take pics and put stuff on ebay...look out!
There's really not that much information in each session ...
I have to disagree on that one Dan. There's an abundance of information, especially for someone who longs to know that "The Word of God is the Will of God". I have a tremendous abiding respect for the bible and its characters because of VP's classes. VP does a great job teaching with enthusiasm on that one point alone.
I see what you're saying. Even though it was "one point alone," there was a lot of "information" in the form of examples and enthusiastic "preaching" (if you will) that brought that "one point" home to you. Where I would summarize the content as "the Bible interprets itself," you would include as "information" the verse, the context, used before, etc. and each example: four crucified, "for this purpose was I spared," etc. maybe even the jokes, "millions now burning," "stay on the ball," "one to get ready, two for the show..." These all had value to you, and are not "chaff." I can see that.
rascal... some of that stuff might bring a pretty penny on eBay... I sold about $700 worth of stuff there about 7 years ago. You could make so much money, you could send a spare green card to Johniam as a love offering.
Thought I still had a "green card" but alas what I found is a green hand-out about the same dimensions.
It is quite verbose and I don't have a scanner.
It's called, The Way Presents The Biblical Research Class "Power For Abundant Living".
It says that on the front and also quotes John 14:6 and John 10:10.( and has the logo in the middle of the page.)
Page 2 is titled "What It Is".
It describes the 16mm film, 12 sessions at 3 hrs. each, (film for 20 to 40 students/ tape for 8 to 12 students)
No mention of classes containing 13-19 students.
"The material presented covers all of the basic keys contained in the Word of God that will enable the students to manifest a life which is more than abundant. The teaching from God's Word answers such questions as:"
It goes on to list 19(yes,19!) questions that will be answered.
---"and many other questions basic to life and the Christian walk."
Page 3 has headings titled, "Who It Is For", Where It Started", "Who Is The Teacher" and "What It Has Accomplished".
This section is where it lists the various benefits such as, "People with serious drug problems have been delivered from them."( No mention of Drambuie. It may not have been recognized as a drug yet at that time.)
Page 4 lists "Requirements For Admission".
Among them are such things as " The cost of the class is $65.00.", "Questions and answer period conducted during final session", "no discussion period until final session"," take-home assignments" and "Students are requested not to take notes during the class."
Next is "How To Apply" and "Conclusion".
"If you are interested in tapping into the resources for a more abundant life, then the 'Power For Abundant Living' class is for you."
Please accept my enrollment on the foundational class on
POWER for ABUNDANT LIVING
Agreement: I am enrolling in the class because I am searching for an accurate knowledge of the word of God and desire to increase the power of God in my life. I understand:
1. I am expected to attend every session on time to recieve the benefits of the class.
2. After completeing the class, I may attend the Foundational Class at any location.
signature of student__________________________
address @ telephone #
I hope this helps you Dan, the hypocracy of it just makes me mad...
A LOT of these "promises" are based on John 10:10.
The rest are based on TWI's big draw of the day - speaking in tongues.
They're all mostly BS.
I started getting in trouble when I heard anyone anywhere say that such and such a class changed their life. I'd get right up to them and say, "That's impossible. Classes don't change lives - God changes lives. Your life changed because you decided to accept God's hand in your life."
PFAL got me starting to think about atitude and it's effect on my overall life. The idea of a "postive" attitude wasn't new, but I was young when I first heard the PFAL teachings around that. It was definitely a beginning for seeing attitude as something that was shaping my actions, what I was doing and how I did it.
makes life meaningful
I would have to say that the teaching in PFAL helped to make my life more meaningful, in that it expanded my understanding of "who" I was. As a Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ, Christ Himself was more of a "person of interest" for me, prior to hearing PFAL. By that I mean, I couldn't quite place Him in my life clearly and consistently, although I think I'd wanted to. PFAL helped in that regard through all the records in the bible that were read and studied. The act of opening up the bible and reading it with some focus and direction had a huge impact on me. I had done that some but it was the concentrated effort that had impact.
Overcomes worry and fear
Overcoming worry and fear are probably two of the biggies - what really happened was I got some tools, some ideas, some references, basically a means to see how things like worry and fear could be dealt with.
Promotes prosperity and health
Health was another biggie, if only that the idea of being healthy and whole as a Godly goal was invigorating to read about.
Explains apparent bible contradictions
It goes without saying that PFAL dealt with how to read and study the bible. Contradictions - I'd probably see it today as more of a very basic starting point. I don't think it completely made the case that by following a specific regimen of study I can explain things in the bible that seem to contradict each other, other information or that are just plain difficult to understand. But I think it made a good case within itself to say that if you want to understand the bible, the effort to do so will produce fruit.
Develops more harmony in the home
I always got a kick out of this one. As time went on, some of the scheduling for classes did anything but that, mostly they disrupted harmony at home, all the coming and going and struggling with arrangements to keep to a schedule. I didn't see a great deal of that myself, I think it was really up to each individual to take away this or anything from PFAL, and use it to benefit in their own lives.
Enables you to seperate truth from error
Again, within itself it produced methods for doing that.
Disciplines the mind by believing
Coulda been. I guess a disciplined mind is a good thing, although too much of a good thing can be, well, not so good.
Teaches how to pray effectively.
In terms of speaking in tongues and the presentation, it was a little.....stiff. The ending of the class was handled so secretively by some people - like "no questions! wait till the end!" then you get to the end and suddenly after days of sitting still and not asking questions, the emphasis shifts and you're being asked to participate. It wasn't quite right, but for my "first" PFAL it wasn't like that at all. I knew all about what was "in" the class before actually taking it, and it was very natural. But it could be very unnatural if handled like some big secret. But speaking in tongues did come full-face for me in PFAL.
I think the best thing about PFAL wasn't what happened in PFAL, although I saw and participated in some very cool things in PFAL. The best thing - could be if allowed - was what happened later, as the information was explored and worked with in different ways by different people. Viewed properly I don't think "PFAL" is the big deal, it's the source material and how it opens up for a person.
I disliked when people would pester others about these benefits - kind of a "didya, didya? Didya, huh????" I mean, come on. Let's show some cool here. Let things happen, let people enjoy the discovery for themselves and in their own ways and times, and if they don't, don't make them say something out of pressure.
If and when a person receives any of those benefits, if they did, their story is now theirs to live and tell. In a way PFAL would work itself out of a job, and wouldn't be something that a person would go back to over and over and over and over and over and over. At some point enough's enough, if you "got it" you got it. Life has to move on and upwards.
OK...I didn't start this thread, but I'll respond to it...
...For every claim made on that accursed green card, I think there was an opposite result in most cases...
Those claims were nothing more than a carrot on a stick that were dangled in front of the unsuspecting sucker that signed up for this class. Twi split families apart, they taught wrong doctrine and discouraged people from questioning authority..."Makes life meaningful" ??? For whom?...I think that the "meaningful" part was reserved for those who counted the money in the backroom and took girls into the back of the motorcoach. The rest of us schmucks were stringing chairs and making coffee.
The green card represents the "hook"...it was what was used to entice people, to bullsh *t them...it was used as a tool for recruiting purposes...it was a scam.
Un-huh... by telling you not to go to college, not to use your time to become better at your earthly job... by telling you to send all your 'abundance' to HQ... by encouraging people to forsake long-range health concerns, health insurance, and basic health maintenance.
...I wonder where Cornfield Vic came up with those claims. Maybe he copied them off of a bottle of doctor Scholl's foot powder...We already know that Wierwille was pretty much incapable of coming up with anything on his own...I think one of the few things that he actually did on his own was JCING...Now wasn't THAT a scholastic masterpiece!
He even stole the names Maggie Muffin, Henry Baloko, and Johnny Jump Up...The guy was a complete flim man man.
The green card made them like Amway...it conned people into thinking that there was some actual benefit to joining an abusive cult...
Dooj, those techniques ....ed me off and seemed so dishonest.
Gosh...I was invited to hear a great christian group play a free concert in birmingham.....I went to a *take a stand caravan* as a newbie...omg afterwards...I was freaking surrounded...I kid you not, there was a circle of people around me doing that high pressure sales crap. Some of the band members, some of the wows, a whole lot of strangers...
There was no wiggle room...there was no polite answere that I could give that didn`t have some smart come back...I was mortified finding myself to be the center of attention of so many people...
I remember mumbling that I didn`t have 100 dollars....they asked...well how much DO you have....I only had 60 dollars in the bank...(for petes sake I was a 17 yr old waitress still in high school)....they said...GREAT..we`ll take it ...have the other 40 before the class starts next week. They were completely and utterly SHAMELESS!
I remember feeling so pressured, so scammed...I only went to hear the music man...and I ended up signing up for a class that I didn`t want and couldn`t afford.
Those high pressure sales pitches always felt dishonest to me, and in later years I resented the hell out of being required to impliment them myself.
Dooj is right, Twi was all about sales...sales of classes, sales of books, seminars, advances, roa, abundant sharing...it was ALL sold to us!
The "top" leaders of twi were the ones who could make a profit for them...the sellers.
At least when you bought something from Amway, you actually got it...soap or whatever...
Twi never had to deliver!...just make the empty promises and when it didn't work...it was "your believing", which made it YOUR fault...
The green card was a sales gimmick...and we were the free work force that brought people and their wallets into twi. I want my commission!...or how about a refund!...Their esoteric mumbo jumbo didn't work...the claims were false. The people who ran it were hedonistic abusers whose sociopathic behavior has left a trail of tears behind it...broken people, confued people...guilt ridden people...and then there's the worst...
...those who still stumble through life with the malady known as "way brain"...sad...
quote: Establishes and maintains a positive attitude
makes life meaningfull
Overcomes worry and fear
Promotes prosperity and health
Explains apparent bible contradictions
Developes more harmony in the home
Enables you to seperate truth from error
Disciplines the mind by believing
Teaches how to pray effectively.
To the best of my recollection, all those promises were fulfilled by the PFAL class. As I have said before, I came from a very strict and condemnatory version of Christianity wherein God was presented to me as an cranky old man armed with thunderbolts, and you should hope He hadn't gotten up on the wrong side of bed on any given day lest He should smite you with cancer, etc. to keep you humble. There was no such thing as the Word of God is the Will of God; God's will was presented as anything this capricious being should happen to desire to do on any given day and was dependent on whether He woke up that morning with a twinge of arthritis. It was a great revelation to find out that God loved me more than any parent would (although it was hard for me to picture God as an all-loving Father, since I had trouble believing that my parents loved me at all). I was certainly taught how to pray effectively since I now knew that the written Word of God was the Will of God, and no longer needed to beg for every little thing, and end every prayer with 'If it be Thy will'. I now knew that the Bible clearly stated what God's will was in almost every situation, and now I could ask in the confidence that God would honor His promises to me.
Also, I was never subjected to any high-pressure sales technique. I came to Twig for well over a year, and finally someone came up to me and asked if I was ever going to take the class; to which I replied 'What class?' I took it shortly thereafter, and have never regretted it. Men may have let me down, God never has.
I was taught in an offshoot but these guidelines still applied. I was told I needed the class over and over - I think I've sat through it like over 20 times. (Somethings wrong....you need the class!)
However, I can say it did help me, yes I have my bitterness in areas but overall it did change my life. It answered alot of questions I had. I think it comes down to picking on the flesh of the person that provided the class. I can pick on that person's flesh alot -- but they did spend time with me and taught me. I have my flaws to. I'm sure anyone could pick them out but God loves us as we are.
From what I have gathered in these threads is LCM really took down the ministry as most of you were in after Wierwille passed away. However, I have gathered it wasn't peaches and cream when he was alive but it got way worse with LCM. It's a shame because right now I am torn - I love the word I was taught but also see the faults in leaders. But one thing I was told that helps me everyday - I, yes I was given the ministry of reconciliation by God -- so I have a ministry, my own ministry. I don't need a leader to tell me what to do as long as I stick with God.
I was so excited going to my first state meeting as a new app corpes. I thought...finally...I am going to start learning some of those great spiritual truths that will help me to grow and mature into a powerfull believer....
Upon arrival, we were divided up into pairs and dropped around the neighborhood for an evening of witnessing. Oh brother....I was so bummed out on the 3 hr drive home....I was forcefully reminded of how mortifying it was to try to sell oranges door to door for school ....people hated having their evenings interrupted by people selling stuff.
I glumly realized that I was going to be selling *oranges* of one form or another for the rest of my life....that this was the single greatest measure of my growth and spirituality.
Did I bring a new person to twig....did I have a new person in class...these meant that I was alright with God...if I ever failed to have a new person in the next class, it meant that I had blown it spiritually....
I cannot describe how bleak the prospect for the rest of my life looked on that long drive home.
Outfield, Did you notice how they (the class promoters) usually were the ones to feed you the questions that they provided the answeres for? I wouldn`t be confident in the answeres that these folks provide.
Anybody including Satan supposedly can speak/teach the word...and teach it in an appealing manner...no??? That does not necessarily mean that what they have taught you is spiritually wholesome or healthy.
Many of us here at greasespot WERE in twi while wierwille was in charge...do you know that he was drugging and raping our sisters in christ??..so no, I wouldn`t call it a picnic. People were tormented by cruel treatment, families destroyed, and lives lost ...seriously...both before and after his death....
According to scriptures, anyone that does the things these leaders did habitually...is not someone trustworthy to present the *truth*
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dmiller
I agree he SAID that.
(I'll leave it to you to draw the inference I'm making,
and *logical conclusion* of NOT listening to docvic.)
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rascal
It was in my bible slid behind an old wow cartoon I had cut out from a grape vine....lol
I have a whole box full of twi trivia....the old flyers and programs from 10 yrs of roa...wow bands...tickets...promos....the old wow book, the new wow book....articles....sound out...adv class....lol don`t ask my why I keep the garbage :)
I have an old box of reel to reel sunday service...int class...etc...probably every book or mag put out in the late70s through early 90s.
stickers...small booklets...witnessing cards retemorie cards...if I ever figure out how to take pics and put stuff on ebay...look out!
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anotherDan
I see what you're saying. Even though it was "one point alone," there was a lot of "information" in the form of examples and enthusiastic "preaching" (if you will) that brought that "one point" home to you. Where I would summarize the content as "the Bible interprets itself," you would include as "information" the verse, the context, used before, etc. and each example: four crucified, "for this purpose was I spared," etc. maybe even the jokes, "millions now burning," "stay on the ball," "one to get ready, two for the show..." These all had value to you, and are not "chaff." I can see that.
rascal... some of that stuff might bring a pretty penny on eBay... I sold about $700 worth of stuff there about 7 years ago. You could make so much money, you could send a spare green card to Johniam as a love offering.
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waysider
Thought I still had a "green card" but alas what I found is a green hand-out about the same dimensions.
It is quite verbose and I don't have a scanner.
It's called, The Way Presents The Biblical Research Class "Power For Abundant Living".
It says that on the front and also quotes John 14:6 and John 10:10.( and has the logo in the middle of the page.)
Page 2 is titled "What It Is".
It describes the 16mm film, 12 sessions at 3 hrs. each, (film for 20 to 40 students/ tape for 8 to 12 students)
No mention of classes containing 13-19 students.
"The material presented covers all of the basic keys contained in the Word of God that will enable the students to manifest a life which is more than abundant. The teaching from God's Word answers such questions as:"
It goes on to list 19(yes,19!) questions that will be answered.
---"and many other questions basic to life and the Christian walk."
Page 3 has headings titled, "Who It Is For", Where It Started", "Who Is The Teacher" and "What It Has Accomplished".
This section is where it lists the various benefits such as, "People with serious drug problems have been delivered from them."( No mention of Drambuie. It may not have been recognized as a drug yet at that time.)
Page 4 lists "Requirements For Admission".
Among them are such things as " The cost of the class is $65.00.", "Questions and answer period conducted during final session", "no discussion period until final session"," take-home assignments" and "Students are requested not to take notes during the class."
Next is "How To Apply" and "Conclusion".
"If you are interested in tapping into the resources for a more abundant life, then the 'Power For Abundant Living' class is for you."
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doojable
A LOT of these "promises" are based on John 10:10.
The rest are based on TWI's big draw of the day - speaking in tongues.
They're all mostly BS.
I started getting in trouble when I heard anyone anywhere say that such and such a class changed their life. I'd get right up to them and say, "That's impossible. Classes don't change lives - God changes lives. Your life changed because you decided to accept God's hand in your life."
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socks
Establishes and maintains a positive attitude
PFAL got me starting to think about atitude and it's effect on my overall life. The idea of a "postive" attitude wasn't new, but I was young when I first heard the PFAL teachings around that. It was definitely a beginning for seeing attitude as something that was shaping my actions, what I was doing and how I did it.
makes life meaningful
I would have to say that the teaching in PFAL helped to make my life more meaningful, in that it expanded my understanding of "who" I was. As a Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ, Christ Himself was more of a "person of interest" for me, prior to hearing PFAL. By that I mean, I couldn't quite place Him in my life clearly and consistently, although I think I'd wanted to. PFAL helped in that regard through all the records in the bible that were read and studied. The act of opening up the bible and reading it with some focus and direction had a huge impact on me. I had done that some but it was the concentrated effort that had impact.
Overcomes worry and fear
Overcoming worry and fear are probably two of the biggies - what really happened was I got some tools, some ideas, some references, basically a means to see how things like worry and fear could be dealt with.
Promotes prosperity and health
Health was another biggie, if only that the idea of being healthy and whole as a Godly goal was invigorating to read about.
Explains apparent bible contradictions
It goes without saying that PFAL dealt with how to read and study the bible. Contradictions - I'd probably see it today as more of a very basic starting point. I don't think it completely made the case that by following a specific regimen of study I can explain things in the bible that seem to contradict each other, other information or that are just plain difficult to understand. But I think it made a good case within itself to say that if you want to understand the bible, the effort to do so will produce fruit.
Develops more harmony in the home
I always got a kick out of this one. As time went on, some of the scheduling for classes did anything but that, mostly they disrupted harmony at home, all the coming and going and struggling with arrangements to keep to a schedule. I didn't see a great deal of that myself, I think it was really up to each individual to take away this or anything from PFAL, and use it to benefit in their own lives.
Enables you to seperate truth from error
Again, within itself it produced methods for doing that.
Disciplines the mind by believing
Coulda been. I guess a disciplined mind is a good thing, although too much of a good thing can be, well, not so good.
Teaches how to pray effectively.
In terms of speaking in tongues and the presentation, it was a little.....stiff. The ending of the class was handled so secretively by some people - like "no questions! wait till the end!" then you get to the end and suddenly after days of sitting still and not asking questions, the emphasis shifts and you're being asked to participate. It wasn't quite right, but for my "first" PFAL it wasn't like that at all. I knew all about what was "in" the class before actually taking it, and it was very natural. But it could be very unnatural if handled like some big secret. But speaking in tongues did come full-face for me in PFAL.
I think the best thing about PFAL wasn't what happened in PFAL, although I saw and participated in some very cool things in PFAL. The best thing - could be if allowed - was what happened later, as the information was explored and worked with in different ways by different people. Viewed properly I don't think "PFAL" is the big deal, it's the source material and how it opens up for a person.
I disliked when people would pester others about these benefits - kind of a "didya, didya? Didya, huh????" I mean, come on. Let's show some cool here. Let things happen, let people enjoy the discovery for themselves and in their own ways and times, and if they don't, don't make them say something out of pressure.
If and when a person receives any of those benefits, if they did, their story is now theirs to live and tell. In a way PFAL would work itself out of a job, and wouldn't be something that a person would go back to over and over and over and over and over and over. At some point enough's enough, if you "got it" you got it. Life has to move on and upwards.
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GrouchoMarxJr
OK...I didn't start this thread, but I'll respond to it...
...For every claim made on that accursed green card, I think there was an opposite result in most cases...
Those claims were nothing more than a carrot on a stick that were dangled in front of the unsuspecting sucker that signed up for this class. Twi split families apart, they taught wrong doctrine and discouraged people from questioning authority..."Makes life meaningful" ??? For whom?...I think that the "meaningful" part was reserved for those who counted the money in the backroom and took girls into the back of the motorcoach. The rest of us schmucks were stringing chairs and making coffee.
The green card represents the "hook"...it was what was used to entice people, to bullsh *t them...it was used as a tool for recruiting purposes...it was a scam.
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Oakspear
Establishes and maintains a positive attitude
Established and maintained denial
makes life meaningful
Made life center around a corrupt organization
Overcomes worry and fear
Encouraged worry and fear of leadership and of not believing
Promotes prosperity and health
I've had more of both since leaving TWI
Explains apparent bible contradictions
At best gave semi-plausible possible explanations of bible contradictions
Develops more harmony in the home
Not for me
Enables you to seperate truth from error
Enabled me to separate Wierwille's opinions from other people's opinions
Disciplines the mind by believing
Whatever that means
Teaches how to pray effectively.
Prayer had about the same effectiveness before, during and after PFAL.
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Ham
not a strange a trip as twi..
:)
and the "line" that reeled us in was used to string the chairs..
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GrouchoMarxJr
Nothing wrong with Jerry Garcia...nothing at all.
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johniam
Nothing right with him, either, he's dead. Nothing wrong with the other people I mentioned.
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socks
Wherever Garcia is, I trust he's discovered "intonation".
And taken it to heart.
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Belle
Yeppers! He SAID a lot of things, didn't he?
His actions spoke so loudly I can't hear what he was saying, though. <_<
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TheHighWay
Un-huh... by telling you not to go to college, not to use your time to become better at your earthly job... by telling you to send all your 'abundance' to HQ... by encouraging people to forsake long-range health concerns, health insurance, and basic health maintenance.
(gawd, was I stupid!!!)
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GrouchoMarxJr
We were all stupid...
...I wonder where Cornfield Vic came up with those claims. Maybe he copied them off of a bottle of doctor Scholl's foot powder...We already know that Wierwille was pretty much incapable of coming up with anything on his own...I think one of the few things that he actually did on his own was JCING...Now wasn't THAT a scholastic masterpiece!
He even stole the names Maggie Muffin, Henry Baloko, and Johnny Jump Up...The guy was a complete flim man man.
The green card made them like Amway...it conned people into thinking that there was some actual benefit to joining an abusive cult...
...Your pen or mine?
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doojable
I remember being taught the same techniques that car salesmen used to get people to sign on the line.
"What would it take for you to sign this card today? What would it be worth to you to have more harmony in your home...?'
Sales! Not Christianity. Someone please show me where in the gospels Jesus had to sell God's deliverance.
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waysider
OMG!, Groucho!
I actually remember sitting in on a session on how to run "Public Ex." meetings that encouraged us to use that exact line!!
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rascal
Dooj, those techniques ....ed me off and seemed so dishonest.
Gosh...I was invited to hear a great christian group play a free concert in birmingham.....I went to a *take a stand caravan* as a newbie...omg afterwards...I was freaking surrounded...I kid you not, there was a circle of people around me doing that high pressure sales crap. Some of the band members, some of the wows, a whole lot of strangers...
There was no wiggle room...there was no polite answere that I could give that didn`t have some smart come back...I was mortified finding myself to be the center of attention of so many people...
I remember mumbling that I didn`t have 100 dollars....they asked...well how much DO you have....I only had 60 dollars in the bank...(for petes sake I was a 17 yr old waitress still in high school)....they said...GREAT..we`ll take it ...have the other 40 before the class starts next week. They were completely and utterly SHAMELESS!
I remember feeling so pressured, so scammed...I only went to hear the music man...and I ended up signing up for a class that I didn`t want and couldn`t afford.
Those high pressure sales pitches always felt dishonest to me, and in later years I resented the hell out of being required to impliment them myself.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Exactly!...I remember it too!
Dooj is right, Twi was all about sales...sales of classes, sales of books, seminars, advances, roa, abundant sharing...it was ALL sold to us!
The "top" leaders of twi were the ones who could make a profit for them...the sellers.
At least when you bought something from Amway, you actually got it...soap or whatever...
Twi never had to deliver!...just make the empty promises and when it didn't work...it was "your believing", which made it YOUR fault...
The green card was a sales gimmick...and we were the free work force that brought people and their wallets into twi. I want my commission!...or how about a refund!...Their esoteric mumbo jumbo didn't work...the claims were false. The people who ran it were hedonistic abusers whose sociopathic behavior has left a trail of tears behind it...broken people, confued people...guilt ridden people...and then there's the worst...
...those who still stumble through life with the malady known as "way brain"...sad...
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Jeaniam
To the best of my recollection, all those promises were fulfilled by the PFAL class. As I have said before, I came from a very strict and condemnatory version of Christianity wherein God was presented to me as an cranky old man armed with thunderbolts, and you should hope He hadn't gotten up on the wrong side of bed on any given day lest He should smite you with cancer, etc. to keep you humble. There was no such thing as the Word of God is the Will of God; God's will was presented as anything this capricious being should happen to desire to do on any given day and was dependent on whether He woke up that morning with a twinge of arthritis. It was a great revelation to find out that God loved me more than any parent would (although it was hard for me to picture God as an all-loving Father, since I had trouble believing that my parents loved me at all). I was certainly taught how to pray effectively since I now knew that the written Word of God was the Will of God, and no longer needed to beg for every little thing, and end every prayer with 'If it be Thy will'. I now knew that the Bible clearly stated what God's will was in almost every situation, and now I could ask in the confidence that God would honor His promises to me.
Also, I was never subjected to any high-pressure sales technique. I came to Twig for well over a year, and finally someone came up to me and asked if I was ever going to take the class; to which I replied 'What class?' I took it shortly thereafter, and have never regretted it. Men may have let me down, God never has.
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Outfield
I was taught in an offshoot but these guidelines still applied. I was told I needed the class over and over - I think I've sat through it like over 20 times. (Somethings wrong....you need the class!)
However, I can say it did help me, yes I have my bitterness in areas but overall it did change my life. It answered alot of questions I had. I think it comes down to picking on the flesh of the person that provided the class. I can pick on that person's flesh alot -- but they did spend time with me and taught me. I have my flaws to. I'm sure anyone could pick them out but God loves us as we are.
From what I have gathered in these threads is LCM really took down the ministry as most of you were in after Wierwille passed away. However, I have gathered it wasn't peaches and cream when he was alive but it got way worse with LCM. It's a shame because right now I am torn - I love the word I was taught but also see the faults in leaders. But one thing I was told that helps me everyday - I, yes I was given the ministry of reconciliation by God -- so I have a ministry, my own ministry. I don't need a leader to tell me what to do as long as I stick with God.
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rascal
You are right Groucho...sales sales sales
I was so excited going to my first state meeting as a new app corpes. I thought...finally...I am going to start learning some of those great spiritual truths that will help me to grow and mature into a powerfull believer....
Upon arrival, we were divided up into pairs and dropped around the neighborhood for an evening of witnessing. Oh brother....I was so bummed out on the 3 hr drive home....I was forcefully reminded of how mortifying it was to try to sell oranges door to door for school ....people hated having their evenings interrupted by people selling stuff.
I glumly realized that I was going to be selling *oranges* of one form or another for the rest of my life....that this was the single greatest measure of my growth and spirituality.
Did I bring a new person to twig....did I have a new person in class...these meant that I was alright with God...if I ever failed to have a new person in the next class, it meant that I had blown it spiritually....
I cannot describe how bleak the prospect for the rest of my life looked on that long drive home.
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rascal
Outfield, Did you notice how they (the class promoters) usually were the ones to feed you the questions that they provided the answeres for? I wouldn`t be confident in the answeres that these folks provide.
Anybody including Satan supposedly can speak/teach the word...and teach it in an appealing manner...no??? That does not necessarily mean that what they have taught you is spiritually wholesome or healthy.
Many of us here at greasespot WERE in twi while wierwille was in charge...do you know that he was drugging and raping our sisters in christ??..so no, I wouldn`t call it a picnic. People were tormented by cruel treatment, families destroyed, and lives lost ...seriously...both before and after his death....
According to scriptures, anyone that does the things these leaders did habitually...is not someone trustworthy to present the *truth*
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anotherDan
Good posts, Jean, Outfield, and rascal! Pretty neat how this works. My fog is lifting! :o
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