I've enjoyed TBone's and others' humorous takes on the "benefits of the class" from the green card on various threads, but I'm asking this for a quite serious reason. (Between TBone and me, I'm the serious Smother's Brother. T, that's right. Mom always liked me best.)
Can anyone post the exact wording of the back of the green card? I would like to have it for my own personal recovery from Waybrain, so I can think through the claims of the class point by point. If no one has an actual card or other authoritive document, I suppose we can come up with it together. Feel free to use this thread to discuss the claims and crack all the jokes you want. The more the merrier, but I do have a serious personal purpose for this, and serious discussion about the claims of the class is likewise welcome.
Love you all,
Dan
Promotes more harmony in the home.
Enables you to separate truth from error.
Explains apparent Bible contradictions.
Interesting topic Dan! Wasn't there also an "Agreement" clause on the "Green Card". Meaning the purpose why you (the person signing up for the class) were taking it?
Please accept my enrollment on the foundational class on
POWER for ABUNDANT LIVING
Agreement: I am enrolling in the class because I am searching for an accurate knowledge of the word of God and desire to increase the power of God in my life. I understand:
1. I am expected to attend every session on time to recieve the benefits of the class.
2. After completeing the classw, I may attend the Foundational Class at any location.
signature of student__________________________
address @ telephone #
I hope this helps you Dan, the hypocracy of it just makes me mad...
That's out of the way. Any discussion? Comments? Wise cracks?
:)
I will return, possibly, with my take on the claims of the class, if I come to any conclusions I think might be useful for others. As I said, primarily I want to personally come to terms with those claims. My overall feeling is that the class did not live up to its claims. That does not mean that I have not gleaned some wheat, nor that I have not enjoyed some benefits from the class and my involvement with the ministry. But the claims were obviously a sales tool for PFAL salesmen, and examining them one by one and asking myself if these claims were fulfilled for myself and for the others to whom I "sold" the class should be interesting.
Mike, you are welcome here. But if you show up, I'm going to pretty much let Mr. Hammeroni handle you.
Meaning.... full of TWI and what IT claims is meaningful... meetings, witnessing, reports, "your life is not your own", you will never have a moment to yourself once you complete this class.
Overcomes worry and fear
Overcomes worry and fear with terror and oppression - not only will you be concerned about the things you're already concerned about, but that will exponentially multiply as you will have the additional burden of following all our rules, giving us MINIMUM 15% of your income and 100% of your time.
Promotes prosperity and health
Okay, maybe not - but you'll learn how to "fake it" because if you're sick, you're obviously "missing it" somewhere and are "out of alignment and harmony". Gawd Forbid you should come down with something serious like heart disease or cancer.
Explains apparent bible contradictions
Don't look it up on your own or question what we say, though. Finding contradictions in our teachings is NOT allowed.
Developes more harmony in the home
As long as you're a good little Stepford Wayfer and submit to your husband like some mail-order bride who depends on him and TWI for her very breath. If you don't have to think for yourself, why would you want to?
Enables you to seperate truth from error
e.g. enables you to separate "the egg sucking world" from those of us of "the remnant of grace" the ONLY ones who truly are saved and who truly hear God's voice (don't even think about intimating that you don't)
Disciplines the mind by believing
Just gotta have faith brutha!! Oh, I mean, "Just gotta believe God bigger. It's not God's fault you're in such a mess."
Teaches how to pray effectively.
You, too, can learn to fake speaking in tongues. You, too, can find that perfect parking spot. Yes, indeedy, you'll be living the MORE ABUNDANT LIFE because if you're not, you'll be able to convince yourself that you are! It's all about money unless you don't have any, then it's more abundant knowledge of the scriptures. Really the folks selling you this line of $h1+ are the only ones living high on the hog.
Hmmm by teaching us to live in a state of denial, to pretend that there were no negatives, to forbid us to talk about anything other than approved subjects.....
Makes life meaningfull???
Only if you are on their agenda...wow adv class way corpes tc....otherwise you were a *bump on the log spiritually* How meangfull did you feel YOUR life was at the end of a tirade or face melting??
Overcomes worry and fear??
Well I guess...this goes back to living in denial...pretend that there is nothing to worry about...pretend that to think anything other than scriptures is leaving room for satan to enter....I guess we became more like walking talking zombies, just parroting scriptures because that was the only safe thing to think or utter.
Promotes prosperity and health??
I dunno, I never was prosperous in twi...as a matter of fact, the actions required were detrimental to my ability to earn an income. I was never healed of my asthma, I got a horrible intestinal virus that darn near finished me off from the water at roa one year...I`d have to say this one was pretty rediculous...
Explains bible contradictions??
Snort, the bible according to vpw...why it is ok to do ALL of the things that scriptures tell us NOT to do with impunity...
Developes more harmony in the home??
I suppose so since I was required to leave my contaminated natural man family in order to please God...there was indeed harmony ...seeing as how there was no one left to cause discordant notes...
Enables you to seperate truth from error??
My AR$E!! Or we`d a known that vp was drugging and raping our teenaged sisters....we would have known that scriptural interpretations ala vpw was simply a way of arranging the truth to say what he WANTED them to say....ie adultery fornication, alcoholism, cruelty, theft, lying was all lawfull to them which are in christ...bah
Disciplines the mind by believing??
Me?? I`d say in reality that renewed mind crap simply taught us to close our mind to all outside influences...including the very voice of God.
Teaches how to pray effectively??
Oh yeah, God the cosmic vending machine...I desire this, I believe that you should supply it, There for You God of the heavens and universe are required to honor my demand....it never worked....
I have learned so much about God and answered prayers SINCE dumping that foolishness....
Like I said ...the hypocarcy of every written promise there makes my blood boil.
I guess that I find it personally disturbing that After 15 years of not being involved with twi that I could lay my hands on a green card in 5 miniutes...shiver
Please accept my enrollment on the foundational class on
POWER for ABUNDANT LIVING
Agreement: I am enrolling in the class because I am searching for an accurate knowledge of the word of God and desire to increase the power of God in my life. I understand:
1. I am expected to attend every session on time to recieve the benefits of the class.
2. After completeing the classw, I may attend the Foundational Class at any location.
signature of student__________________________
address @ telephone #
I hope this helps you Dan, the hypocracy of it just makes me mad...
I think part of the problem, in sorting this out, is separating out what was taught in PFAL, vs what was taught in fellowships and SNS teachings, vs how things were put into practice. It all becomes very jumbled and mixed up!!!
So, do PFAL make my life meaningful? No, I did that. But PFAL did give me some meaningful direction.
Did PFAL help me over come SOME worries and fears, yes. Unfortunately TWI went on to instill new ones. :blink:
Did PFAL promote prosperity and health in my life? I'd have to say no.
Did PFAL explain apparent bible contradictions? Well it did offer SOME explanations for SOME apparent Bible contradictions. Whether those explanations are accurate is debatable.
Did PFAL install harmony in my home? I think for a time it helped, but again other teachings and practices within TWI ultimately undid that.
Did PFAL enable me to separate truth from error? Nope. It did, however, instill in me a desire to continue reading and studying, as opposed to my prior feeling that understanding the Bible was hopeless and I would never be able to do it.
Did PFAL discipline my mind by believing? No. I don't think that can be accomplished simply by taking a class, ANY class.
Did PFAL teach me how to pray effectively? Again, not really. I think my prayers were "effective" to the degree that prayers are, prior to PFAL.
I guess that I find it personally disturbing that After 15 years of not being involved with twi that I could lay my hands on a green card in 5 miniutes...shiver
Now you can burn it, Rascal! Post pictures!
:lol:
These guys ask for donations of crocs, so they can destroy them in interesting ways: http://www.ihatecrocs.com/
But the claims were obviously a sales tool for PFAL salesmen
Yes I see that. It didn't bother me, being a salesman for PFAL , seeing it contained many wonderful truths about God and Jesus. I think about what the Word says about "whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached, and therein I rejoice"... I thought it was (and still is!) a decent starting point.
Wouldn't it be great if PFAL was on internet free of charge.
Wouldn't it be great if PFAL was on internet free of charge.
You could always start a thread in Doctrinal, and present the class session by session with whatever corrections or adjustments you deem necessary. There's really not that much information in each session, and it's not rocket science. If I were to do so, sifting the wheat from the chaff, the sessions would be pretty short. Especially session 12.
It would take me more than five minutes, I'm sure, to find my dust-covered sylabus. Where's that chaff pile?
Maybe I'll do that.
Dan <----- ducking tomatoes ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
You could always start a thread in Doctrinal, and present the class session by session with whatever corrections or adjustments you deem necessary.
He might have to get permission first.
There's really not that much information in each session, and it's not rocket science. If I were to do so, sifting the wheat from the chaff, the sessions would be pretty short. Especially session 12.
It would take me more than five minutes, I'm sure, to find my dust-covered sylabus. Where's that chaff pile?
Maybe I'll do that.
Dan <----- ducking tomatoes ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Well, the only "tomatoes" I have in my possession is confusion. Your attitude seems to be changing a bit from when you first arrived here. Is that a good thing? What do I know. :blink:
Actually, it's been done. So has the blue book. But strict PFAL adherents probably won't like it. :) And, of course, it would take time to actually read it, which some don't care to do.
Larry, yes, my attitude is changing since I first arrived here. Definitely. From my POV, it is a "good thing." From my POV, I would say my head is clearing, and that adjustments and changes were and are necessary. I would welcome your POV on the matter. How do you see me?
Agreement: I am enrolling in the class because I am searching for an accurate knowledge of the word of God and desire to increase the power of God in my life. I understand:
1. I am expected to attend every session on time to recieve the benefits of the class.
2. After completing the class, I may attend the Foundational Class at any location.
signature of student__________________________
I don't think #2 was ironclad, especially as we approached TWI2
There's really not that much information in each session ...
I have to disagree on that one Dan. There's an abundance of information, especially for someone who longs to know that "The Word of God is the Will of God". I have a tremendous abiding respect for the bible and its characters because of VP's classes. VP does a great job teaching with enthusiasm on that one point alone.
I have to disagree on that one Dan. There's an abundance of information, especially for someone who longs to know that "The Word of God is the Will of God". I have a tremendous abiding respect for the bible and its characters because of VP's classes. VP does a great job teaching with enthusiasm on that one point alone.
I have no doubt VP taught The WOG being the Will of God quite a bit, but what he didnt tell you was he was really teaching HIS version of the WOG which was the Will of MOG in disguise.
I have no doubt VP taught The WOG being the Will of God quite a bit, but what he didnt tell you was he was really teaching HIS version of the WOG which was the Will of MOG in disguise.
quote: Establishes and maintains a positive attitude
makes life meaningfull
Overcomes worry and fear
Promotes prosperity and health
Explains apparent bible contradictions
Developes more harmony in the home
Enables you to seperate truth from error
Disciplines the mind by believing
Teaches how to pray effectively.
I thought there were 10 things on the green card. Hmm. This is ironic: Rascal can produce one in 5 minutes; I don't even have one.
I think I had a different expectation than some people. All the points were fulfilled spiritually more than anything else for me.
Makes life meaningful - I wear many hats like everybody else. I am a man, a father, a husband, an employee, a consumer, a taxpayer, a citizen, a voter, a homeowner, a licensed motor vehicle operator, and, thankfully, a son of God. THAT'S what makes life most meaningful for me. All that other stuff is ordinary by comparison. Sure, like WW said, anybody can claim meaning in a lot of other things, but it was pfal that taught me this, not BG Leonard, not Kenyon, not Bullinger, not Billy Graham, not Jerry Garcia or John Lennon.
Establishes and maintains a positive attitude - again, knowing I'm a son of God and that I'm going to heaven and all hell can't stop me from going....what's not to be positive about?
I got to go; be back later.
OK, I'm back.
Explains apparent bible contradictions - I was raised in an ultra liberal home; there was a bible in our house but it was more of a relic than anything else. Once I read matthew chapters 1-7 just for grins. It appeared that Jesus was disputing what Moses said so I concluded that Moses must have been full of it. When I later took pfal I was taught that Jesus fulfilled the law of Moses and that with the coming of the greater, the lesser is dissolved. Made perfect sense.
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Larry N Moore
Interesting topic Dan! Wasn't there also an "Agreement" clause on the "Green Card". Meaning the purpose why you (the person signing up for the class) were taking it?
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OnionEater
I still have a "green card" somewhere. When I find it I will post it here for you.
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rascal
On one side of the card it says....
Establishes and maintains a positive attitude
makes life meaningfull
Overcomes worry and fear
Promotes prosperity and health
Explains apparent bible contradictions
Developes more harmony in the home
Enables you to seperate truth from error
Disciplines the mind by believing
Teaches how to pray effectively.
On the other side it says...
Please accept my enrollment on the foundational class on
POWER for ABUNDANT LIVING
Agreement: I am enrolling in the class because I am searching for an accurate knowledge of the word of God and desire to increase the power of God in my life. I understand:
1. I am expected to attend every session on time to recieve the benefits of the class.
2. After completeing the classw, I may attend the Foundational Class at any location.
signature of student__________________________
address @ telephone #
I hope this helps you Dan, the hypocracy of it just makes me mad...
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anotherDan
Perfect! Thank you, dear!
That's out of the way. Any discussion? Comments? Wise cracks?
:)
I will return, possibly, with my take on the claims of the class, if I come to any conclusions I think might be useful for others. As I said, primarily I want to personally come to terms with those claims. My overall feeling is that the class did not live up to its claims. That does not mean that I have not gleaned some wheat, nor that I have not enjoyed some benefits from the class and my involvement with the ministry. But the claims were obviously a sales tool for PFAL salesmen, and examining them one by one and asking myself if these claims were fulfilled for myself and for the others to whom I "sold" the class should be interesting.
Mike, you are welcome here. But if you show up, I'm going to pretty much let Mr. Hammeroni handle you.
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Belle
Meaning.... full of TWI and what IT claims is meaningful... meetings, witnessing, reports, "your life is not your own", you will never have a moment to yourself once you complete this class.
Overcomes worry and fear with terror and oppression - not only will you be concerned about the things you're already concerned about, but that will exponentially multiply as you will have the additional burden of following all our rules, giving us MINIMUM 15% of your income and 100% of your time.Okay, maybe not - but you'll learn how to "fake it" because if you're sick, you're obviously "missing it" somewhere and are "out of alignment and harmony". Gawd Forbid you should come down with something serious like heart disease or cancer.
Don't look it up on your own or question what we say, though. Finding contradictions in our teachings is NOT allowed.As long as you're a good little Stepford Wayfer and submit to your husband like some mail-order bride who depends on him and TWI for her very breath. If you don't have to think for yourself, why would you want to?
e.g. enables you to separate "the egg sucking world" from those of us of "the remnant of grace" the ONLY ones who truly are saved and who truly hear God's voice (don't even think about intimating that you don't)Just gotta have faith brutha!! Oh, I mean, "Just gotta believe God bigger. It's not God's fault you're in such a mess."
You, too, can learn to fake speaking in tongues. You, too, can find that perfect parking spot. Yes, indeedy, you'll be living the MORE ABUNDANT LIFE because if you're not, you'll be able to convince yourself that you are! It's all about money unless you don't have any, then it's more abundant knowledge of the scriptures. Really the folks selling you this line of $h1+ are the only ones living high on the hog.
Just my experience...YMMV.
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rascal
Estabishes and maintains a positive attitude??
Hmmm by teaching us to live in a state of denial, to pretend that there were no negatives, to forbid us to talk about anything other than approved subjects.....
Makes life meaningfull???
Only if you are on their agenda...wow adv class way corpes tc....otherwise you were a *bump on the log spiritually* How meangfull did you feel YOUR life was at the end of a tirade or face melting??
Overcomes worry and fear??
Well I guess...this goes back to living in denial...pretend that there is nothing to worry about...pretend that to think anything other than scriptures is leaving room for satan to enter....I guess we became more like walking talking zombies, just parroting scriptures because that was the only safe thing to think or utter.
Promotes prosperity and health??
I dunno, I never was prosperous in twi...as a matter of fact, the actions required were detrimental to my ability to earn an income. I was never healed of my asthma, I got a horrible intestinal virus that darn near finished me off from the water at roa one year...I`d have to say this one was pretty rediculous...
Explains bible contradictions??
Snort, the bible according to vpw...why it is ok to do ALL of the things that scriptures tell us NOT to do with impunity...
Developes more harmony in the home??
I suppose so since I was required to leave my contaminated natural man family in order to please God...there was indeed harmony ...seeing as how there was no one left to cause discordant notes...
Enables you to seperate truth from error??
My AR$E!! Or we`d a known that vp was drugging and raping our teenaged sisters....we would have known that scriptural interpretations ala vpw was simply a way of arranging the truth to say what he WANTED them to say....ie adultery fornication, alcoholism, cruelty, theft, lying was all lawfull to them which are in christ...bah
Disciplines the mind by believing??
Me?? I`d say in reality that renewed mind crap simply taught us to close our mind to all outside influences...including the very voice of God.
Teaches how to pray effectively??
Oh yeah, God the cosmic vending machine...I desire this, I believe that you should supply it, There for You God of the heavens and universe are required to honor my demand....it never worked....
I have learned so much about God and answered prayers SINCE dumping that foolishness....
Like I said ...the hypocarcy of every written promise there makes my blood boil.
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Outfield
Oops -- didn't mean to post.
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Belle
^_^
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rascal
I guess that I find it personally disturbing that After 15 years of not being involved with twi that I could lay my hands on a green card in 5 miniutes...shiver
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Abigail
I think part of the problem, in sorting this out, is separating out what was taught in PFAL, vs what was taught in fellowships and SNS teachings, vs how things were put into practice. It all becomes very jumbled and mixed up!!!
So, do PFAL make my life meaningful? No, I did that. But PFAL did give me some meaningful direction.
Did PFAL help me over come SOME worries and fears, yes. Unfortunately TWI went on to instill new ones. :blink:
Did PFAL promote prosperity and health in my life? I'd have to say no.
Did PFAL explain apparent bible contradictions? Well it did offer SOME explanations for SOME apparent Bible contradictions. Whether those explanations are accurate is debatable.
Did PFAL install harmony in my home? I think for a time it helped, but again other teachings and practices within TWI ultimately undid that.
Did PFAL enable me to separate truth from error? Nope. It did, however, instill in me a desire to continue reading and studying, as opposed to my prior feeling that understanding the Bible was hopeless and I would never be able to do it.
Did PFAL discipline my mind by believing? No. I don't think that can be accomplished simply by taking a class, ANY class.
Did PFAL teach me how to pray effectively? Again, not really. I think my prayers were "effective" to the degree that prayers are, prior to PFAL.
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anotherDan
Loved your post, Abi. All good posts!
Now you can burn it, Rascal! Post pictures!
:lol:
Friends don't let friends wear crocs!
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oldiesman
For me the following came to pass:
Makes Life Meaningful
Explains Apparent Bible Contradictions
Develops More Harmony in the Home
Enables You to Separate Truth from Error
Teaches How to Pray Effectively
The other claims came to pass but not necessarily from PFAL, so I don't count those.
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oldiesman
Yes I see that. It didn't bother me, being a salesman for PFAL , seeing it contained many wonderful truths about God and Jesus. I think about what the Word says about "whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached, and therein I rejoice"... I thought it was (and still is!) a decent starting point.
Wouldn't it be great if PFAL was on internet free of charge.
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anotherDan
I really like you, Oldies!
You could always start a thread in Doctrinal, and present the class session by session with whatever corrections or adjustments you deem necessary. There's really not that much information in each session, and it's not rocket science. If I were to do so, sifting the wheat from the chaff, the sessions would be pretty short. Especially session 12.
It would take me more than five minutes, I'm sure, to find my dust-covered sylabus. Where's that chaff pile?
Maybe I'll do that.
Dan <----- ducking tomatoes ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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WordWolf
A perception of life "now being meaningful" can be confidently claimed by many people as the result of many
different organization's packages. White supremacists can claim their beliefs bring "meaning" to their life.
Homosexual advocates can claim their platform "brings meaning" to their life.
Many members of street-gangs, if asked, would claim their gang gives them "meaning."
So, this claim is not as impressive as it may sound.
It put forth ONE set of dogmas, which answered some questions-some of them provably INCORRECTLY.It added OTHER contradictions.
But, to the adherent, when vpw gave some examples, and said he was "explaining apparent Bible contradictions",
(despite doing a passable job at best of addressing them),
this is a tremendous lesson learned.
So long as any family holds to THE SAME DOGMA,
then they will be in harmony.
(See examples above for a few.)
If one person in the family is a dogmatist of pfal,
and the rest of the family is NOT,
then pfal (like any other dogma in that situation) would ERODE harmony in the home.
If one's entire family is in twi, pfal would "develop more harmony in the home."
If one's entire family is in the KKK, white supremacy would "develop more harmony in the home."
Since this is something white supremacy could perform besides pfal, it's not as impressive as it sounds.
It ADDED SOME ERRORS,and gave ONE method for separating truth from error.
However,
when that method was used to detect error in the contents of pfal,
that was SUPPRESSED by vpw, the guru of pfal.
Separating truth from error in twi doctrine was verboten.
(Ask John Schoenheit how well it was received to separate truth from error on, say, adultery.)
You didn't know how to pray effectively without pfal?
I KNEW how, but I just didn't CHOOSE to, myself.
I hardly expect I was rare in that respect.
Good plan.
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Larry N Moore
He might have to get permission first.
Well, the only "tomatoes" I have in my possession is confusion. Your attitude seems to be changing a bit from when you first arrived here. Is that a good thing? What do I know. :blink:
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WordWolf
Actually,
I'd be fine with that.
I probably would use it myself- now that separating the truth from the error is even POSSIBLE.
Even the sections that are ERROR can be used as practice in "separating truth from error"
and critical thinking.
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Belle
Actually, it's been done. So has the blue book. But strict PFAL adherents probably won't like it. :) And, of course, it would take time to actually read it, which some don't care to do.
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anotherDan
More great posts. WW... great observations.
Larry, yes, my attitude is changing since I first arrived here. Definitely. From my POV, it is a "good thing." From my POV, I would say my head is clearing, and that adjustments and changes were and are necessary. I would welcome your POV on the matter. How do you see me?
I don't think #2 was ironclad, especially as we approached TWI2
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Larry N Moore
How I see you really doesn't matter. It's how you see yourself that matters. So, nevermind.
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oldiesman
I have to disagree on that one Dan. There's an abundance of information, especially for someone who longs to know that "The Word of God is the Will of God". I have a tremendous abiding respect for the bible and its characters because of VP's classes. VP does a great job teaching with enthusiasm on that one point alone.
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TrustAndObey
I have no doubt VP taught The WOG being the Will of God quite a bit, but what he didnt tell you was he was really teaching HIS version of the WOG which was the Will of MOG in disguise.
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Nottawayfer
Amen!
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johniam
quote: Establishes and maintains a positive attitude
makes life meaningfull
Overcomes worry and fear
Promotes prosperity and health
Explains apparent bible contradictions
Developes more harmony in the home
Enables you to seperate truth from error
Disciplines the mind by believing
Teaches how to pray effectively.
I thought there were 10 things on the green card. Hmm. This is ironic: Rascal can produce one in 5 minutes; I don't even have one.
I think I had a different expectation than some people. All the points were fulfilled spiritually more than anything else for me.
Makes life meaningful - I wear many hats like everybody else. I am a man, a father, a husband, an employee, a consumer, a taxpayer, a citizen, a voter, a homeowner, a licensed motor vehicle operator, and, thankfully, a son of God. THAT'S what makes life most meaningful for me. All that other stuff is ordinary by comparison. Sure, like WW said, anybody can claim meaning in a lot of other things, but it was pfal that taught me this, not BG Leonard, not Kenyon, not Bullinger, not Billy Graham, not Jerry Garcia or John Lennon.
Establishes and maintains a positive attitude - again, knowing I'm a son of God and that I'm going to heaven and all hell can't stop me from going....what's not to be positive about?
I got to go; be back later.
OK, I'm back.
Explains apparent bible contradictions - I was raised in an ultra liberal home; there was a bible in our house but it was more of a relic than anything else. Once I read matthew chapters 1-7 just for grins. It appeared that Jesus was disputing what Moses said so I concluded that Moses must have been full of it. When I later took pfal I was taught that Jesus fulfilled the law of Moses and that with the coming of the greater, the lesser is dissolved. Made perfect sense.
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