I know that while we were involved with TWI many of us were extreemly driven and pressured toward outreach; witnessing, holding fellowships, moving about the country... maybe even compulsively or by constriction we dutifully performed.
Did TWI kill the desire in you to share the gospell?
I'm not sure that I personally would say they killed my desire to speak the Gospel because I continued to share The Word(as I knew it at the time) even after I left the organization.
They surely killed my desire to ever be part of anything organized again.
I know that while we were involved with TWI many of us were extreemly driven and pressured toward outreach; witnessing, holding fellowships, moving about the country... maybe even compulsively or by constriction we dutifully performed.
Did TWI kill the desire in you to share the gospell?
It did for a long time. But thank God I got involved in a church and got excited about sharing the good news of Jesus Christ instead of trying to get people to take "a class" and/or join my organization.
I think that what a person searches for and finds is more valuable than taking someone elses word for it.
Sharing those finds might be called witnessing, or sharing the good news, and I see nothing wrong with that.
However, my experience with TWI and what I have seen of other groups that witness tends to be more like "Here, this will fix your problems." Or "Here, this will keep you safe in this ugly world."--after recounting a bunch of disasters and/or even more future predictions of disaster.
If it is an attempt to get someone else to change and be like you in belief, using fear tactics or big promises...nope, don't respect that. Too many people are left broken hearted when they or their loved ones don't get the big miracle, or their loved ones choose to not believe, therefore destruction is feared.
I'm not sure how it is in areas now, but previously I know we were "urged" to go witnessing to people about the Word. As soon as someone showed interest "however", we were Suggested" to discuss with them taking the class, whichever was coming up at the time. I still wonder about all "the good" we supposedly did for others when we could not even keep major illnesses out of the "household."
Were we missing something along the road that we, as believers, should have been confronting and correcting??? Were we good little robots and hypocrites at the same time???
Nope. I hated pushing my beliefs on others and I still hate it. I don't know which I hate worse, being obligated to do it or having to fend off some know-it-all jerk who's trying to fulfill his obligation to convert me.
IF someone asks me what I think about something I'll tell 'em, but I also avoid specific answers a lot of times because I realize I don't have all the answers and what works for me might not work for someone else. Furthermore, my views are subject to change as I continue to learn and grow myself.
I've found that the people I tend to respect the most are the ones who tell me that I need to find my own path and suggest a few topics that might help me along my journey, but refrain from specifics.....and that's only when I ask them - unsolicited advice is never welcome. :)
I think there's a reason for the rules of etiquette that suggest never discussing politics and religion.
I know that while we were involved with TWI many of us were extreemly driven and pressured toward outreach; witnessing, holding fellowships, moving about the country... maybe even compulsively or by constriction we dutifully performed.
Did TWI kill the desire in you to share the gospell?
It's been an up-and-down journey for me. Along the way, I definitely had to acknowledge that I was often more of a PFAL salesman than a true witness for Christ. I also had to come to a far better understanding of what the Gospel is! Belle's post makes a lot of sense to me. If I have passion, which I do, it's not towards "converting" anyone to my religious paradigm. If the "holy spirit" is indeed the witness, as it says in the Bible, then my love ought to come across and connect with another person. A strong element of the Gospel is about forgiveness and redemption. It's about a man who gave his life for our sins. Jesus' words and actions confronted religious bigotry and loved the ordinary folk. Makes me want to be ordinary folk. Jesus ate meals with them, which really ticked off the judgmentalists and holier-than-thou's. Jesus had a hamburger.
The Kingdom message is indeed a "story to tell to the nations." It ought to be spread far and wide. "Moving the Word" is not a part of my thinking, now, unless the meanings are completely transformed into a declaration of the grace and peace, the heart of the Father, that Jesus made known. That's good news indeed, and I don't have to quote a single Bible verse to "move" it. Sometimes I just have a hamburger.
In the past year or so I have made friends at work, people I eat lunch with etc. A couple have tried to turn conversations to religion, and I have quietly said that I don't discuss spirituality at work. In fact, I don't like to have discussions about spirituality with people I don't know very very well, except on the internet, where I am relatively anonymous.
So many times such discussions end up in a invite to a church etc, and due to the friendship it is harder to say no--but saying yes opens up a big can of worms!
I also am not interested in trying to persuade others that my beliefs would be right for them.
I always hated witnessing except for maybe that first couple months where I had a beautiful gal to follow along with.. lol..
But seriously, I know I felt like a salesman, of which I had been in that profession selling door to door before. But I hate that kind of job, always feel like you are pressuring someone. I still remember once out WOW we had "witnessed" to someone, and they gave us their number. Only later we could never get ahold of them. So what does my coordinator do, have me hound this couple for weeks on end, leaving messages on their door, on his voicemail, at his work, anything to get ahold of them.. I hated that!! They must have thought I was crazy or something, and I felt like a fool trying to force our cult onto them... Good thing they never responded! lol...
Now days, forget about "witnessing".. Or at least the old way we were talked into doing. I used to brush up on communication skills and always looking for an inroad to bring up the scriptures and fellowship.. How much more brainwashed can you get!
Instead, if someone talks about God, great, I'll share what I know on the subject they bring up, but if not, who cares. There's more to life than quoting scripture and bringing people to your way of thinking or your "group". If I really care to help someone, I'll make my life available to them no strings attached, rather than trying to force them to make their life available to me. And I'll accept them for whatever and wherever they are at, rather than try and get them to follow me.
I still remember once out WOW we had "witnessed" to someone, and they gave us their number. Only later we could never get ahold of them. So what does my coordinator do, have me hound this couple for weeks on end, leaving messages on their door, on his voicemail, at his work, anything to get ahold of them.. I hated that!! They must have thought I was crazy or something, and I felt like a fool trying to force our cult onto them... Good thing they never responded! lol...
I had an FC hound me to do that once too. It drove me crazy. I finally said to her "Their silence speaks VOLUMES!!! If they wanted it, they would have called me back. If I call them or leave them anymore notes, it could be harrassment!!" She finally backed off. What makes them think that is such a godly way to get people involved?
I remember feeling pressured to take classes when I first got involved. I didn't call back for a reason. Maybe I wouldn't have gone out WOW and stayed in TWI for 20 years had they not kept bugging me.....shoulda woulda coulda....
It was a huge relief to me to be uot of TWI and not have to go witnessing with someone I didn't know well, who would inevitably criticize my every word. It was a relief not to have some class to sell. I think people are smarter than TWI realized and could see a mile away that we didn't give a rat's behind about THEM, just their money and their body in a classroom.
When I was first involved, say the first three to four years, I was on fire, not for the classes, but for God. I would pray for people or talk to them about the Bible and God and all without mentioning TWI and they would be helped soemtimes too.
I remember when I was living in Charleston SC and I went to this dentist who was a Baptist with 6-7 children. He respected our knowledge and faith, but didn't want to come to TWI meetings. This was fine; I respected him right back. A lot of times if he had an issue he would call us and ask for prayer, including once after we left SC when he stuck himself with a drill while filling a tooth on a gay patient and was afraid he might contract AIDS (this was in the early 90's when we didn't know much about the disease). However, whilel we were in SC, my branch leader's wife (NOT 2Life who could've cared less) jumped on me about not talking to people who didn't want the class. I told her I thought the Bible said to spread the gospel not a class.
Nowadays, I go to a great church, and I don't particularly promote the church. My trust level is just starting to get rebuilt and I'm just now beginning to want to read the Bible again. It's been 11 years. But I have no problem talking about my Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.
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waysider
I'm not sure that I personally would say they killed my desire to speak the Gospel because I continued to share The Word(as I knew it at the time) even after I left the organization.
They surely killed my desire to ever be part of anything organized again.
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George Aar
I don't know about "sharing the gospel" but TWI sure killed any illusions I had about there being anything to the whole Christian experience.
I mean, what with all the POWER we supposedly had at our disposal, yet we still lived - for the most part - like a bunch of losers.
Yeah, it left a thoroughly (throughly?) bad taste in my mouth...
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wrdsandwrks
It did for a long time. But thank God I got involved in a church and got excited about sharing the good news of Jesus Christ instead of trying to get people to take "a class" and/or join my organization.
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Ham
In a sense.. I'm trying to figure out what all the "good news" was all about..
maybe I'll rediscover it.. maybe I won't..
I figure if the Almighty wants me to have it, He'll convince me without being under the auspices of TWI et al..
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Bramble
I think that what a person searches for and finds is more valuable than taking someone elses word for it.
Sharing those finds might be called witnessing, or sharing the good news, and I see nothing wrong with that.
However, my experience with TWI and what I have seen of other groups that witness tends to be more like "Here, this will fix your problems." Or "Here, this will keep you safe in this ugly world."--after recounting a bunch of disasters and/or even more future predictions of disaster.
If it is an attempt to get someone else to change and be like you in belief, using fear tactics or big promises...nope, don't respect that. Too many people are left broken hearted when they or their loved ones don't get the big miracle, or their loved ones choose to not believe, therefore destruction is feared.
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railroader II
I'm not sure how it is in areas now, but previously I know we were "urged" to go witnessing to people about the Word. As soon as someone showed interest "however", we were Suggested" to discuss with them taking the class, whichever was coming up at the time. I still wonder about all "the good" we supposedly did for others when we could not even keep major illnesses out of the "household."
Were we missing something along the road that we, as believers, should have been confronting and correcting??? Were we good little robots and hypocrites at the same time???
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Belle
Nope. I hated pushing my beliefs on others and I still hate it. I don't know which I hate worse, being obligated to do it or having to fend off some know-it-all jerk who's trying to fulfill his obligation to convert me.
IF someone asks me what I think about something I'll tell 'em, but I also avoid specific answers a lot of times because I realize I don't have all the answers and what works for me might not work for someone else. Furthermore, my views are subject to change as I continue to learn and grow myself.
I've found that the people I tend to respect the most are the ones who tell me that I need to find my own path and suggest a few topics that might help me along my journey, but refrain from specifics.....and that's only when I ask them - unsolicited advice is never welcome. :)
I think there's a reason for the rules of etiquette that suggest never discussing politics and religion.
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outandabout
I couldn't stand to hear "Move the Word."
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anotherDan
It's been an up-and-down journey for me. Along the way, I definitely had to acknowledge that I was often more of a PFAL salesman than a true witness for Christ. I also had to come to a far better understanding of what the Gospel is! Belle's post makes a lot of sense to me. If I have passion, which I do, it's not towards "converting" anyone to my religious paradigm. If the "holy spirit" is indeed the witness, as it says in the Bible, then my love ought to come across and connect with another person. A strong element of the Gospel is about forgiveness and redemption. It's about a man who gave his life for our sins. Jesus' words and actions confronted religious bigotry and loved the ordinary folk. Makes me want to be ordinary folk. Jesus ate meals with them, which really ticked off the judgmentalists and holier-than-thou's. Jesus had a hamburger.
The Kingdom message is indeed a "story to tell to the nations." It ought to be spread far and wide. "Moving the Word" is not a part of my thinking, now, unless the meanings are completely transformed into a declaration of the grace and peace, the heart of the Father, that Jesus made known. That's good news indeed, and I don't have to quote a single Bible verse to "move" it. Sometimes I just have a hamburger.
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Bramble
In the past year or so I have made friends at work, people I eat lunch with etc. A couple have tried to turn conversations to religion, and I have quietly said that I don't discuss spirituality at work. In fact, I don't like to have discussions about spirituality with people I don't know very very well, except on the internet, where I am relatively anonymous.
So many times such discussions end up in a invite to a church etc, and due to the friendship it is harder to say no--but saying yes opens up a big can of worms!
I also am not interested in trying to persuade others that my beliefs would be right for them.
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wrdsandwrks
Here's a quote I like about preaching the gospel:
"Preach the gospel at all times -- If necessary, use words."
-- Saint Francis of Assisi
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TrustAndObey
I always hated witnessing except for maybe that first couple months where I had a beautiful gal to follow along with.. lol..
But seriously, I know I felt like a salesman, of which I had been in that profession selling door to door before. But I hate that kind of job, always feel like you are pressuring someone. I still remember once out WOW we had "witnessed" to someone, and they gave us their number. Only later we could never get ahold of them. So what does my coordinator do, have me hound this couple for weeks on end, leaving messages on their door, on his voicemail, at his work, anything to get ahold of them.. I hated that!! They must have thought I was crazy or something, and I felt like a fool trying to force our cult onto them... Good thing they never responded! lol...
Now days, forget about "witnessing".. Or at least the old way we were talked into doing. I used to brush up on communication skills and always looking for an inroad to bring up the scriptures and fellowship.. How much more brainwashed can you get!
Instead, if someone talks about God, great, I'll share what I know on the subject they bring up, but if not, who cares. There's more to life than quoting scripture and bringing people to your way of thinking or your "group". If I really care to help someone, I'll make my life available to them no strings attached, rather than trying to force them to make their life available to me. And I'll accept them for whatever and wherever they are at, rather than try and get them to follow me.
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Nottawayfer
I had an FC hound me to do that once too. It drove me crazy. I finally said to her "Their silence speaks VOLUMES!!! If they wanted it, they would have called me back. If I call them or leave them anymore notes, it could be harrassment!!" She finally backed off. What makes them think that is such a godly way to get people involved?
I remember feeling pressured to take classes when I first got involved. I didn't call back for a reason. Maybe I wouldn't have gone out WOW and stayed in TWI for 20 years had they not kept bugging me.....shoulda woulda coulda....
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Watered Garden
It was a huge relief to me to be uot of TWI and not have to go witnessing with someone I didn't know well, who would inevitably criticize my every word. It was a relief not to have some class to sell. I think people are smarter than TWI realized and could see a mile away that we didn't give a rat's behind about THEM, just their money and their body in a classroom.
When I was first involved, say the first three to four years, I was on fire, not for the classes, but for God. I would pray for people or talk to them about the Bible and God and all without mentioning TWI and they would be helped soemtimes too.
I remember when I was living in Charleston SC and I went to this dentist who was a Baptist with 6-7 children. He respected our knowledge and faith, but didn't want to come to TWI meetings. This was fine; I respected him right back. A lot of times if he had an issue he would call us and ask for prayer, including once after we left SC when he stuck himself with a drill while filling a tooth on a gay patient and was afraid he might contract AIDS (this was in the early 90's when we didn't know much about the disease). However, whilel we were in SC, my branch leader's wife (NOT 2Life who could've cared less) jumped on me about not talking to people who didn't want the class. I told her I thought the Bible said to spread the gospel not a class.
Nowadays, I go to a great church, and I don't particularly promote the church. My trust level is just starting to get rebuilt and I'm just now beginning to want to read the Bible again. It's been 11 years. But I have no problem talking about my Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.
WG
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waysider
Anybody ever do "shill" witnessing?
Here's how it worked:
Herman and Sherman go to the mall to witness.
They spot someone who looks like a good prospect.( We'll call him Joe M.T.)
They split up and Herman goes over and sits down next to Joe M.T. but does not strike up a conversation.
Sherman comes over and strikes up a conversation with Herman (which is staged for the benefit of Joe M.T.)
The conversation is staged in such a way as to invite Joe M.T. to participate.
If Joe M.T. chooses to join in, Herman leaves as Sherman and Joe M.T. have a discourse about The Word and, hopefully, PFAL.
Geeze, Louise!
We weren't just pathetic hucksters, we were outright con artists!
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anotherDan
The pretty girls brought lots of guys to fellowship... no shill needed! You had to be more inventive, waysider.
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dmiller
I use that line in my sig on a different site.
(Got the idea from Raf). ;)
"Preach the Gospel every day. Use words when necessary". Francis of Assisi
It makes sense to me.
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waysider
Hey, now!
I wasn't about to shave my legs and wear a skirt for anybody!(Not even Jesus)
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dmiller
How's about a Kilt??
;)
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waysider
Is it ok to wear that for a "poker run"?
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anotherDan
sider... like THAT would have helped!
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