Who are you talking to here ham and So_C? Are you talking directly to me? Or are you talking to well, I don't know who it would be. Your descriptors here, "dares", assorted "scary" thoughts and propositions and other comments about "three stinking months" - not sure what you're trying to say, if it's to me.
I'll try to craft my response appropriately.
Not you or anyone in particular.
I just remember da vicster's admonition to set aside "carnaL" "junk" for how many months was it?
Now as far as *I* am concerned. after three months of no speaking in tongues.. I had more *positive* spiritual results than before.
of course one could only describe what I speak of as very subjective..
so I dares ya..
Just a thought. Have you gone three to six months without speaking in tongues?
I have gone 3-6 months without speaking in tongues. It came about as a result of a rather freakish traffic mishap. I was pedaling my banana bike on the local outerbelt, doing approximately 75MPH. Ordinarily, I rarely exceed 70MPH but I was running quite late for a presentation I was due to give for a group of local neuro-physicists. As a rule, I ordinarily wear my tight fitting helmet with re-enforced lucite face shield. Unfortunately, I had neglected to retrieve it from the dry cleaning store in a timely fashion and they sold it to some pimply faced kid with an English Racer bike. So, I wore the next best thing, my old Harvard crewing cap. These, of course, lack the aforementioned face shield. As luck would have it, some guy in an old Duesenberg with a bad paint job flew past me at excessive speed, causing gravel to fly toward my face, just as I was opening my mouth to sip a power drink. A very sharp piece of gravel nicked my tongue and caused it to swell extensively. As we all know, when you speak in tongues, there is an ever so slight accompanying movement of the actual, physical tongue. I had to quit speaking in tongues until the swelling subsided. Do you suppose Dr. Wierwille may have owned a banana bike?
Three to six months without, Ham? Sounds like a prescription - "don't take this for 3 - 6 months and call me in the morning"....
If you're asking have I slavishly devoted myself to speaking in tongues for fear that my brain would fall out if I didn't or would somehow invoke the wrath of Jehovah upon my sorry non-speaking tongue, no. There have been long periods where I didn't, long periods where I have. I think I bought that burial plot in the Way's pond sometime during a long non-stop Excellor's session when it was suddenly foisted upon me that for 10,000 bucks it would be a real deal and since it included my own Memorial Duck - hey, what's not to like? It seemed like a great idea, but I didn't have the money so I signed over title to my car as a down payment. The weird thing is a few weeks after I unceasingly was not speaking in the lingue de m'ange's I realized it may not have been a wise transaction as now I don't have a car. Fortunately once I restart "doing it" I can get back to that place where it all makes wonderful sense again, wonderful sense. Again.
Which makes me think - if I speak in tongs will I pick up things faster? Not trying to squeeze anything with that, but one never knows, maybe....maybe....
Seriously though I'm now on a non-stop Tongue-Buster of a month, December being the month Jesus wasn't born and all, and I figure this is the best time of year to offer up intercessory messages on behalf of all those sorry souls who go caroling, load up on food, give gifts to each other, share their time in service to others and offer help to the sick and needy - hey! They're celebrating in the wrong month!!! hahaha!!!! I shouldn't laugh, really - if they only would back out a couple months they'd really get blessed and be full of real joy instead of being so "happy" - counterfeit! I'll be holding fellowship come December 25th, intercessorizing for all those troubled souls. Don't get many people coming but the phone hookup is awesome and just knowing that even one person's blessed, it's all worthwhile! It's really really neat.
Seriously though I'm glad you're the better for not doing that-which-shall-not-be-done. My advice - continue doing what you're not doing.
I don't take dares, on face value. They're usually not in anyone's best interest but the person doin' the darin, who wants to prove a point or watch the other person go down in flames. And from where I sit I know anyone dumb enough to dare me on anything doesn't know me well enough to know what might come next. No offense to you Ham, just speaking generally, on average, give or take, more or less.
God is not manna, that he should lie. Be that as it may, I am not concerned with whether VP chose the right words in that section. Before PFAL I had no idea that Adam's failure to obey God had any relationship to why Jesus had to come. If there was no change in God's relationship with Adam and Eve (mankind), then just what DID God mean when he said "in the day thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die"?
Odd that when Jesus came the devil seemed to KNOW that something huge was at stake, yet he played right into God's hands by having him crucified. Reminds me of some of the mind games police and prosecutors use to manipulate suspects on TV cop/lawyer shows.
My favorite verse on God communicating with people is Heb 4:12. For the word of God is quick and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Dividing asunder of soul and spirit means that 'soul' is your 5 senses mind, designed by creation to formulate its own thoughts, but 'spirit' is the spirit of God, which can certainly access our minds.
If you were to tell an educated person that God talks to you, he/she would assume that you hear voices or something. Not necessarily. I've never heard God speak to me in an audible voice. Many times I've been in conversations with one or more people when someone who is speaking will just stop and say "Why did I say that?", and then continue the conversation. Not that the person was controlled, but whatever thought(s) immediately preceded what was said that the person wondered about was either not normally in that person's thoughts or it was not what the person planned to verbalize. This suggests to me that the thought(s) in question may have been put there by God.
Excathedra: I don't know what's up with my PM status; I clicked on the help link but I couldn't tell whether anything was disabled or no. Faces referred to yours and others I recognize.
Wierwille made his position on this subject very clear, beginning with his lesson on the three-fold man (body/soul/spirit) in PFAL. According to Wierwille, the only avenues of direct communication with God, today, are a.) holy spirit (the gift)/Christ IN you b.) holy spirit being placed ON someone, on a conditional basis. This was his explanations for events in the O.T. His stance was that the "natural" man could not commune with God unless he fell into category b.). He used, among other scriptures, a section of Romans to substantiate this. Furthermore, he stated that one's "fellowship" state was directly reliant on speaking in tongues and that God could not "talk" to you unless you are in fellowship. (This can be found on pg.10 of the A.C. syllabus) The exception to this, he said, was that if you were out of fellowship and God needed to talk with you, He would temporarily put spirit ON you. So, in my mind, at least, it becomes apparent that Wierwille did not equate "the spirit of man" with anything other than breath-life. ("It's that which makes you 'you'".----PFAL).
Having said that, I wish to state that I have no desire to debate the veracity of the above stated concept. My only interest in highlighting this is to make it clear that Wierwille did, indeed, state (in a variety of ways) that he considered non-Christians to be "empties floating by" on life's big river, devoid of any communication enabling connection to God.
Wierwille did, indeed, state (in a variety of ways) that he considered non-Christians to be "empties floating by" on life's big river, devoid of any communication enabling connection to God.
anymore I don't discount the possibility of non-*me* having a real clue... even with the cats here..
sometimes they know better than the humans in the house..
we have one cat that watches the house.. no kidding. She tells us when the mail arrives, or ups shows up and leaves a package at the back door.. or if the meter reader makes his or her way through the yard.. she even tells me when the toast pops up in the morning..
this cat has more of a "connection" than most of the old "leadership" of the old ministry..
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Ham
Not you or anyone in particular.
I just remember da vicster's admonition to set aside "carnaL" "junk" for how many months was it?
Now as far as *I* am concerned. after three months of no speaking in tongues.. I had more *positive* spiritual results than before.
of course one could only describe what I speak of as very subjective..
so I dares ya..
Just a thought. Have you gone three to six months without speaking in tongues?
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waysider
Dear Ham
I have gone 3-6 months without speaking in tongues. It came about as a result of a rather freakish traffic mishap. I was pedaling my banana bike on the local outerbelt, doing approximately 75MPH. Ordinarily, I rarely exceed 70MPH but I was running quite late for a presentation I was due to give for a group of local neuro-physicists. As a rule, I ordinarily wear my tight fitting helmet with re-enforced lucite face shield. Unfortunately, I had neglected to retrieve it from the dry cleaning store in a timely fashion and they sold it to some pimply faced kid with an English Racer bike. So, I wore the next best thing, my old Harvard crewing cap. These, of course, lack the aforementioned face shield. As luck would have it, some guy in an old Duesenberg with a bad paint job flew past me at excessive speed, causing gravel to fly toward my face, just as I was opening my mouth to sip a power drink. A very sharp piece of gravel nicked my tongue and caused it to swell extensively. As we all know, when you speak in tongues, there is an ever so slight accompanying movement of the actual, physical tongue. I had to quit speaking in tongues until the swelling subsided. Do you suppose Dr. Wierwille may have owned a banana bike?
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Ham
well, one can't claim said bike isn't streamlined..
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socks
Three to six months without, Ham? Sounds like a prescription - "don't take this for 3 - 6 months and call me in the morning"....
If you're asking have I slavishly devoted myself to speaking in tongues for fear that my brain would fall out if I didn't or would somehow invoke the wrath of Jehovah upon my sorry non-speaking tongue, no. There have been long periods where I didn't, long periods where I have. I think I bought that burial plot in the Way's pond sometime during a long non-stop Excellor's session when it was suddenly foisted upon me that for 10,000 bucks it would be a real deal and since it included my own Memorial Duck - hey, what's not to like? It seemed like a great idea, but I didn't have the money so I signed over title to my car as a down payment. The weird thing is a few weeks after I unceasingly was not speaking in the lingue de m'ange's I realized it may not have been a wise transaction as now I don't have a car. Fortunately once I restart "doing it" I can get back to that place where it all makes wonderful sense again, wonderful sense. Again.
Which makes me think - if I speak in tongs will I pick up things faster? Not trying to squeeze anything with that, but one never knows, maybe....maybe....
Seriously though I'm now on a non-stop Tongue-Buster of a month, December being the month Jesus wasn't born and all, and I figure this is the best time of year to offer up intercessory messages on behalf of all those sorry souls who go caroling, load up on food, give gifts to each other, share their time in service to others and offer help to the sick and needy - hey! They're celebrating in the wrong month!!! hahaha!!!! I shouldn't laugh, really - if they only would back out a couple months they'd really get blessed and be full of real joy instead of being so "happy" - counterfeit! I'll be holding fellowship come December 25th, intercessorizing for all those troubled souls. Don't get many people coming but the phone hookup is awesome and just knowing that even one person's blessed, it's all worthwhile! It's really really neat.
Seriously though I'm glad you're the better for not doing that-which-shall-not-be-done. My advice - continue doing what you're not doing.
I don't take dares, on face value. They're usually not in anyone's best interest but the person doin' the darin, who wants to prove a point or watch the other person go down in flames. And from where I sit I know anyone dumb enough to dare me on anything doesn't know me well enough to know what might come next. No offense to you Ham, just speaking generally, on average, give or take, more or less.
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WordWolf
I was referring to the 2 statements in quotation marks as things vpw recited back at us without understanding them:
"God is Spirit, and God can only communicate with what He is"
and "God is Spirit, and God can only give what He is".
IMHO, socks understands them now better than vpw did when he taped pfal.
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johniam
quote: God is not manna.
God is not manna, that he should lie. Be that as it may, I am not concerned with whether VP chose the right words in that section. Before PFAL I had no idea that Adam's failure to obey God had any relationship to why Jesus had to come. If there was no change in God's relationship with Adam and Eve (mankind), then just what DID God mean when he said "in the day thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die"?
Odd that when Jesus came the devil seemed to KNOW that something huge was at stake, yet he played right into God's hands by having him crucified. Reminds me of some of the mind games police and prosecutors use to manipulate suspects on TV cop/lawyer shows.
My favorite verse on God communicating with people is Heb 4:12. For the word of God is quick and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Dividing asunder of soul and spirit means that 'soul' is your 5 senses mind, designed by creation to formulate its own thoughts, but 'spirit' is the spirit of God, which can certainly access our minds.
If you were to tell an educated person that God talks to you, he/she would assume that you hear voices or something. Not necessarily. I've never heard God speak to me in an audible voice. Many times I've been in conversations with one or more people when someone who is speaking will just stop and say "Why did I say that?", and then continue the conversation. Not that the person was controlled, but whatever thought(s) immediately preceded what was said that the person wondered about was either not normally in that person's thoughts or it was not what the person planned to verbalize. This suggests to me that the thought(s) in question may have been put there by God.
Excathedra: I don't know what's up with my PM status; I clicked on the help link but I couldn't tell whether anything was disabled or no. Faces referred to yours and others I recognize.
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waysider
Wierwille made his position on this subject very clear, beginning with his lesson on the three-fold man (body/soul/spirit) in PFAL. According to Wierwille, the only avenues of direct communication with God, today, are a.) holy spirit (the gift)/Christ IN you b.) holy spirit being placed ON someone, on a conditional basis. This was his explanations for events in the O.T. His stance was that the "natural" man could not commune with God unless he fell into category b.). He used, among other scriptures, a section of Romans to substantiate this. Furthermore, he stated that one's "fellowship" state was directly reliant on speaking in tongues and that God could not "talk" to you unless you are in fellowship. (This can be found on pg.10 of the A.C. syllabus) The exception to this, he said, was that if you were out of fellowship and God needed to talk with you, He would temporarily put spirit ON you. So, in my mind, at least, it becomes apparent that Wierwille did not equate "the spirit of man" with anything other than breath-life. ("It's that which makes you 'you'".----PFAL).
Having said that, I wish to state that I have no desire to debate the veracity of the above stated concept. My only interest in highlighting this is to make it clear that Wierwille did, indeed, state (in a variety of ways) that he considered non-Christians to be "empties floating by" on life's big river, devoid of any communication enabling connection to God.
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excathedra
thanks yam :)
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Ham
anymore I don't discount the possibility of non-*me* having a real clue... even with the cats here..
sometimes they know better than the humans in the house..
we have one cat that watches the house.. no kidding. She tells us when the mail arrives, or ups shows up and leaves a package at the back door.. or if the meter reader makes his or her way through the yard.. she even tells me when the toast pops up in the morning..
this cat has more of a "connection" than most of the old "leadership" of the old ministry..
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Ham
Speak in tongues? Ha. Even the cats here can do that..
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Ham
maybe it sounds nuts.. I dunno.
but yes. If one listens closely enough, what they are saying at the moment does not sound repetitive..
even though I have no idea what they are saying in cat language..
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krys
squirrels too do ya think?
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Ham
Ha! If you can ever read me.. good luck..
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