You can take the person out of TWI, but can you take TWI out of the person?

[johniam]

quote: I think I still have a lot of Way brain

It's lunch time where I am, so here's some food for thought.

Several years ago I was walking to the store and it was barely dark out. I twisted my ankle in a tire track. It was really painful. At first, I thought I had broken a bone somewhere. So I sat down for 15 minutes, then got up and limped the rest of the way to the store and then back home.

I went to work the next day as usual but I couldn't put full weight on that foot until after the 2nd break (1:30 PM). My job at the time was to down stack wooden door parts as they came out of the laminating machine, several at a time. In between loads I was also responsible to run over to the desk nearby and log the parts I'd just down stacked (set on skids). Overall, the job was like being a shortstop and an accountant at the same time. In other words, I had to be on my feet practically the whole time.

So until 1:30 I had to do this job limping with my ankle swollen to twice its normal size. The company was perfectly willing to allow time off for injuries. The company also had a good insurance package. Why did I put myself through this?

Because I believe that you cannot be fully recovered from leg and foot injuries without walking on them. There is a process in which you just have to grin and bear it until you can walk on it with full weight. I wasn't going to spend all kinds of money to a doctor unless it was really needed. In this case, it wasn't needed. I figured that since I was able to make my way home from the location of the injury that I might as well give it a shot and go to work. The swelling didn't completely go down for another 2 weeks, but I didn't miss any work. What does this have to do with waybrain?

I'm glad you asked. If you think you still have too much waybrain, OK that's cool. As much as I am still a believer in much twi doctrine, I have to admit that some of the quasi ettiquette we were taught in twi cannot be transferred to ANYWHERE else.

So in order to "walk it off" according to my analogy, you have to actually mingle with people even though you know you will probably embarrass yourself from time to time. You can't just stay away in fear. Let's say you go to another church, you mingle with the people, you get to know them a little, and all of a sudden you say something without thinking that reveals to you your waybrain. AAAUUUGGGHHHH! Life is over! I can never see these people again! Right?

NO! Just work through it. It sounds to me, newlife, as though you really would like to find a church you fit in with, but you're in the offshoot because it's a "safe zone" where you know what to avoid saying. If you really want to find a church, then you should keep trying.

Just food for thought (burp).

[newlife]

Well, you are right about that.....I would like to find a church to fit into, but I've tried many, from Baptist to Independent Charismatic.......And it always comes down to (what I believe is the stopper) The trinity. I think people who believe in the trinity have a whole different perspective regarding who they are relating to, which is "Jesus". I am not at the place where I believe he is God. And I will admitt, this time when I left this last church, I kind of "gave up" on it ever working. SO, for two months I did nothing, but then decided because I just had given up on the church, I might as well go back to the offshoot...which isn't working either....I feel like I am inbetween the two of them. Some beliefs I've definitely changed and I do want a relationship with God... I would like to go forward, I want to move forward, and just was lost as to how to do that....and in a lot of pain over it....so I posted. I am receiving a lot of good suggestions......and you may have hit on something, I am not sure how " to be" in a church where you don't believe what they believe. I feel like an "under cover agent" or something!! I don't think it's honest. Acting like I "fit in" when on the inside knowing that I don't. I don't know why I hold on to beliefs so tightly, maybe like one person suggested.....fear.

Thanks for all of your posts......I know I am not the only one that goes through something like this.....

[johniam]

Newlife: The church I mentioned that I fit in to? It was a Presbyterian church with a trinitarian minister. I just didn't make waves. The minister even knew that my family and 2 other families there were ex way. Then one Sunday the sermon was on "Trust and obey". The first scripture covered was Luke 22:42 where Jesus prayed "Lord, not my will, but thine be done". The point was that even Jesus had to struggle with the concept of trust and obey. But if that "trinitarian" minister knew Jesus was tempted like we are, then somewhere in his mind he knows that Jesus is a man and he's not really Elohim, God. I bet a lot of trinitarians are like that.

You may find a church where if you don't bring up the trinity, and are willing to gloss over other people mentioning it, all will be OK. Undercover 'brother', indeed :) .

[newlife]

You made me laugh with that last sentence!!!!

[Abigail]

quote: I think I still have a lot of Way brain

It's lunch time where I am, so here's some food for thought.

Several years ago I was walking to the store and it was barely dark out. I twisted my ankle in a tire track. It was really painful. At first, I thought I had broken a bone somewhere. So I sat down for 15 minutes, then got up and limped the rest of the way to the store and then back home.

I went to work the next day as usual but I couldn't put full weight on that foot until after the 2nd break (1:30 PM). My job at the time was to down stack wooden door parts as they came out of the laminating machine, several at a time. In between loads I was also responsible to run over to the desk nearby and log the parts I'd just down stacked (set on skids). Overall, the job was like being a shortstop and an accountant at the same time. In other words, I had to be on my feet practically the whole time.

So until 1:30 I had to do this job limping with my ankle swollen to twice its normal size. The company was perfectly willing to allow time off for injuries. The company also had a good insurance package. Why did I put myself through this?

Because I believe that you cannot be fully recovered from leg and foot injuries without walking on them. There is a process in which you just have to grin and bear it until you can walk on it with full weight. I wasn't going to spend all kinds of money to a doctor unless it was really needed. In this case, it wasn't needed. I figured that since I was able to make my way home from the location of the injury that I might as well give it a shot and go to work. The swelling didn't completely go down for another 2 weeks, but I didn't miss any work. What does this have to do with waybrain?

I'm glad you asked. If you think you still have too much waybrain, OK that's cool. As much as I am still a believer in much twi doctrine, I have to admit that some of the quasi ettiquette we were taught in twi cannot be transferred to ANYWHERE else.

So in order to "walk it off" according to my analogy, you have to actually mingle with people even though you know you will probably embarrass yourself from time to time. You can't just stay away in fear. Let's say you go to another church, you mingle with the people, you get to know them a little, and all of a sudden you say something without thinking that reveals to you your waybrain. AAAUUUGGGHHHH! Life is over! I can never see these people again! Right?

NO! Just work through it. It sounds to me, newlife, as though you really would like to find a church you fit in with, but you're in the offshoot because it's a "safe zone" where you know what to avoid saying. If you really want to find a church, then you should keep trying.

Just food for thought (burp).

JohnIam, someone else pointed me to this thread. I have to say what you wrote above really really spoke to me. Thank you for sharing that!!!

[TrustAndObey]

<snip>....Then one Sunday the sermon was on "Trust and obey". ... <snip>

Really? It was about little ol' me???

LOL

[Jeaniam]

Hello, Newlife.

I second what my husband said, but I want to mention a church that a poster named Out There attends and speaks well of. He says that they don't believe that Jesus Christ is God or some of the other sticky doctrinal issues for us ex-TWI folks. The name of the church is 'The Church of God of Abrahamic Faith', and he says it can be reached through the Atlanta Bible College website. I personally have no experience of the church, but it might be worth a try.

God bless

Edited September 8, 2007 by Jeaniam

[George Aar]

Yeah, what 3-cents said...

You seem to be trying really hard to remain faithful to what may well be nothing but superstitious nonsense.

People from their stoneaged beginnings have always besought some unseen force to better their lot in life. There are thousands (maybe millions?) of religions that have been cooked up over the centuries. Some are long since dead, a few manage to thrive and are still quite effective at screwing up peoples' lives all over the world to this day.

Maybe before you spend a lot more time obsessing over which fairies and tinkerbells are the "right" ones, maybe take a few steps back and figure out if ANY of it makes any damned sense. I have, and - it didn't. YMMV

"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

- Carl Sagan

[WordWolf]

I don't think you ever heard about that time I found that Christian getting ready to

jump off the Willis Avenue Bridge.

It was about this time, a year or so ago, late at night.

I talked to him while I moved close enough to grab him.

I got him to talk about his beliefs.

WordWolf:"Are you a Christian? A Jew?"

Him:"A Christian."

WW:"Me too. Catholic, or Protestant?"

Him:"Protestant."

WW:"Me too. What franchise?"

Him:"Baptist."

WW:"Me too. Northern or Southern Baptist?"

Him: "Northern Baptist."

WW:"Me too. Northern Conservative or Northern Liberal?"

Him:"Northern Conservative."

WW:"Me too. Conservative Fundamentalist or Conservative Reformed?"

Him:"Conservative Fundamentalist."

WW:"Me too. Fundamentalist Great Lakes Region or Eastern Region?"

Him:"Eastern Region."

WW:"Me too.

Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Eastern Region Council of 1893, or

Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Eastern Region Council of 1912?"

Him:"Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Eastern Region Council of 1912."

WW:"DIE HERETIC!" *shoves him off the bridge*

========

I've noticed that focusing on what we have in common heads off a lot of arguments

among Christians. vpw was fond of starting arguments as quickly as possible,

and inventing as many dividers and "deal breakers" between "US" and "THEM"

as possible. (There ARE no "US" and "THEM", just different Christians.)

[wrdsandwrks]

I don't think you ever heard about that time I found that Christian getting ready to

jump off the Willis Avenue Bridge.

It was about this time, a year or so ago, late at night.

I talked to him while I moved close enough to grab him.

I got him to talk about his beliefs.

WordWolf:"Are you a Christian? A Jew?"

Him:"A Christian."

WW:"Me too. Catholic, or Protestant?"

Him:"Protestant."

WW:"Me too. What franchise?"

Him:"Baptist."

WW:"Me too. Northern or Southern Baptist?"

Him: "Northern Baptist."

WW:"Me too. Northern Conservative or Northern Liberal?"

Him:"Northern Conservative."

WW:"Me too. Conservative Fundamentalist or Conservative Reformed?"

Him:"Conservative Fundamentalist."

WW:"Me too. Fundamentalist Great Lakes Region or Eastern Region?"

Him:"Eastern Region."

WW:"Me too.

Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Eastern Region Council of 1893, or

Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Eastern Region Council of 1912?"

Him:"Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Eastern Region Council of 1912."

WW:"DIE HERETIC!" *shoves him off the bridge*

========

I've noticed that focusing on what we have in common heads off a lot of arguments

among Christians. vpw was fond of starting arguments as quickly as possible,

and inventing as many dividers and "deal breakers" between "US" and "THEM"

as possible. (There ARE no "US" and "THEM", just different Christians.)

Great story, LOL!

There's a quote from St. Augustine that I love:

St. Augustine's prayer:

On essentials unity

On non-essentials liberty

on everything else love

[newlife]

Well, Thanks everyone for your posts. I really. really, appreciate them all.

I will check out the Church of God of Abramic Faith......I have a friend from NY who is involved in that....but I don't really know anything about it.

I know that over the last two months, all I've done is read the bible and just try and read what's written. And though, a lot of people were really against me doing that......that's what I have been doing. I pray and read, pray and read.....I think it's getting better!

I do agree that I need the fellowship with other people. And I do agree that sometimes we just have to do the "hard stuff". One thing I do know...is that I want to keep moving ahead and not retreating to what I thought I knew. It's been difficult with some of the beliefs, but I do think that God is faithful........and since posting, I am having more peace about it.

I got out my guitar over the weekend and pulled out this folder (that had dust on it) of old songs I had written. Some before TWI, and some in the early years of TWI.......and I was amazed that some of those songs gave me some insight and some peace of mind. I was amazed that I had written the words to some of them.......And I found a little more of "me" in them.

We journey through this life....and I am glad that you are all on the road with me!!! Thank-you!!!

[Belle]

New Life, Jerry Barrax doesn't post here much at all anymore, but this is a discussion where he, Raf, Evan, Danny and some other phenomenal brains go through PFAL. It's very enlightening and, much as Jerry wanted to hold on to so much of PFAL, he eventually came to see how absolutely error ridden so much of what vee pee taught actually is.

It was incredibly eye-opening to me, so I'm posting it here in case you're interested. :) I'm so glad that Jerry has kept this information public, as it's helped quite a few folks since the discussion took place.

He also has a discussion about the Blue Book. Raf does, too. Both are extremely helpful with the confusion and wrong doctrine as well as pointing out what parts of it are right - and some of it is right. After all, the value of the counterfeit increases according to its likeness to the original, right?

[newlife]

Belle---All I can say is WOW......and thank-you for giving me that link. I've read through some of it and I've been just been floored by what I have read. Definitely Something I REALLY needed........It is going to help me soooo much!!!

Thank-you so much!!!

[igotout]

I have enjoyed fellowshipping at Waydale and Greasespot for 7 years or so. I like the diversity of this church.

[My3Cents]

More at http://www.jesusandmo.net/

[anotherDan]

Edited September 15, 2007 by anotherDan

[rosestoyou]

Newlife,

I have felt like you many, many times! I also have been out 20 years or so. I tried different churches and some I liked and others no way. I don't go to church anymore. I read my bible, talk to God, etc. I just don't want to be in that situation any more. You go to church, they talk to you, try to get you to join, ask all sorts of question, think you don't know anything about the bible, etc, etc. etc. I look at them and think to myself, been there, done that! Don't want that anymore. I don't believe God wants us to be an island but I just can't get into going to a church and doing all the church stuff. So find some organizations that you can donate your time to, volunteer. I was once asked, what makes your heart sing? I think about that question every now and then and it always comes back to the same thing, my heart sings when I talk to friends about the word. (not trying to get them to believe but talking about the word, helping each other with the word). That's what makes my heart sing! What makes your heart sing? When you come to your answer then go and do it! Hope that helps.

[newlife]

Thanks Rosestoyou.....

Interesting you used the phrase, "what makes your heart sing?"---------I play music....and write music.....and that literally makes my heart sing.

In the last week, I have formed a christian bluegrass band......And it's been great! Thanks for the confirmation!!!

[Belle]

:eusa_clap:

Good on ya! You are in good company - there's lots of bluegrass fans here at the cafe. Me included!