Haven't seen anything convincing. Like I said, the ones who claim to have been healed are simple practicing the art of deception.
Well, if you haven't seen anything I guess that means you haven't seen anything. Yet, I don't know how you can believe those who claim they are/have been healed are lying to themselves.
If the Bible really teaches a "Law of Believing". No.
Bolshevik, if you're agnostic or atheist it doesn't matter to me. Do you believe this:
Several years ago, my mother went into the hospital with a severe kidney infection. It was a horrible experience for her, and she underwent a mental
breakdown atop of everything else (apparently they had also given her some bad saline solution).. It didn't help that she was placed in the same room as a terminal cancer patient, continually attended by this patient's relatives actually shunning my mother's presence there. I am still angered to this day by the way those god-damned worthless doctors and nurses ignored her, and brushed aside my desperate inquiries as to what the hell was going on with my mother, and what they were doing about it.
The next night she had ended up in the psych ward. And the following day a doctor inquired of her as to what was going on at home to have driven her to such a state(!)
No doubt, an exercise in preserving the supposed good name of the hospital. Looking back now, we should have sued those b@*#rds.
In any event, I prayed very intensely for my mother. I prayed in tongues, and I prayed with my understanding. I envisioned her in my mind, dressed up and packing her suitcase, getting ready to leave. When I went to the hospital the following day (she was expected to be there another week), I was absolutely blown away when walking into
her room, to see her all dressed up and packing her suitcase, getting ready to leave. Just as I had envisioned this happening in my mind. A week ahead of schedule.
And I thanked God. I will never forget this.
There was - and I think may still be- something behind this "believing" stuff.
I don't pretend to understand it all. Nor do I assume Wierwille did either.
But he nonetheless struck some chords which inspired and motivated a many minds here, for better and for worse.
I think Linda Z hit on something extremely important in her post earlier. Exchange the word "believe" for "trust" and I think we approach closer to how
this verb - or idea - might be better understood. Or so at least to my own mind.
Now that I'm considering this experience concerning my mother, gives me pause to re-consider the way I've interpreted it all these years.
Did I myself generate this vision in my mind of my mother leaving the hospital amidst my prayers, - or did this vision actually originate from the Higher Power-
Glad to hear that invisible Dan. My father has gone to the hospital many times, several for severe kidney infection. I will tell you, that when you have severe urinary/kidney infection, when they give you the antibiotic for it, many times older people go into temporary dementia. Dad did that too - twice, out of his mind, two days later, sitting there like nothing had ever happened and not remembering a thing. I would have found out what they were giving your mother.
Now that I'm considering this experience concerning my mother, gives me pause to re-consider the way I've interpreted it all these years.
Did I myself generate this vision in my mind of my mother leaving the hospital amidst my prayers, - or did this vision actually originate from the Higher Power-
A prophetic vision in answer to my prayers?
Danny
I would surmise that God showed you the future if the vision appeared like a mirror image or photograph of the reality you experienced. Wow, that is amazing, if it happened like that.
I haven't a doubt that your believing was a contributory factor in the process.
I was preparing to move out my parents' house, to move in with a couple other believers who were also searching for a place.
We made a list of the kind of place we wanted, to search for and to pray about. A musician friendly place where we could make a lot of noise.
On the same sheet as my list, I doodled an unusual house, which wasn't your typical garden variety cape or ranch.
but more like a three part cabin, with the main living room/kitchen in the center building, flanked by separate room/building on either side.
A week later, we got a call from a realtor in Middle Haddam that there was a rental in that town. Situated atop a mountain, in the woods from which one could see
the Connecticut river from afar. When we saw the house, it was a dead-ringer for the doodle of the unusual house I had sketched.
What a cool place this was. Perfect for two guitarists and a drummer. So isolated one could record stuff in the middle of the night, in the bedrooms which were
separate buildings attached to the house
Someday, I'll have to dig up this sketch, and take a trip to Middle Haddam down the road to snap a pic,
and post them here side by side.
Interesting that these two events in my life occurred in my first three years with the Way, before I got more heavily involved with the organization itself.
Well.. as a canned "rememdy".. I can't see how it's any better than one of Granny's all fire sure cold cures.. take it, and inside of three or four weeks, you'll be like a spring chicken, no matter how bad the cold..
Well.. as a canned "rememdy".. I can't see how it's any better than one of Granny's all fire sure cold cures.. take it, and inside of three or four weeks, you'll be like a spring chicken, no matter how bad the cold..
It's amazing how well a placebo will work in some cases. :)
One of my professors got in a lot of trouble for that in his younger days..
In school, he sold tapes to fellow students. Said they had the lessons implanted on them subliminally, and if they listened to the tapes and studied, they'd get better grades, money back guarantee. It really worked..
Until the people who ran the university found out.. and further found out they were really blank tapes..
One of my professors got in a lot of trouble for that in his younger days..
In school, he sold tapes to fellow students. Said they had the lessons implanted on them subliminally, and if they listened to the tapes and studied, they'd get better grades, money back guarantee. It really worked..
Until the people who ran the university found out.. and further found out they were really blank tapes..
:) Yeah, but . . . I imagine the students didn't care. They still made the grade.
I don't know where this thread is..I haven't read much of the last few pages.
I'm gonna give my two cents anyway.
Any "believing" that is going to have any power or result in our lives is going to have to include a belief that God's Word is true.
It's not "how big" or "how much more" you believe; it is THAT you believe.
When the disciples asked Jesus to "increase their faith" (I'll find the scripture reference later, along with any pertinent Greek words) they were asking for their faith to "be made bigger."
They wanted VOLUME.
Jesus said it was only THAT they believe. That is where he starts talking about believing the size of a mustard seed.
So it is:
THAT God can heal...
THAT God delivers...
THAT God supplies...
THAT God is a loving Father that takes care of His children...
One cannot increase his or her faith. He can only increase how many promises he believes.
We were always saying that we needed to "believe bigger" and that was just a bunch of bunk.
And still there are no guarantees because sometimes the answer to prayer is, "No."
If we are honestly going to proclaim God's sovereignty, then we must also accept when he does not give us what we ask for - believing or not.
And in my humble opinion, THAT is why believing is not a LAW. I am instructed to have faith...I'd say it is a strong request, by the Father that we believe what he has told us and allow Him to be a Heavenly parent.
Okay, my jaw is on the floor. Do you really think their believing "quenched the violence of fire"?? They confessed their faith in God, though they made a critical 'law of believing' error by expressing doubt when they said "but if not..."
I suppose to lower the validity of someone's assertion, we have to put our jaws on the floor.
I'm not sure they had any doubt. They may have been just trying to tell King you know who that they wouldn't bow to his idol even if that meant death. Their seeming assertion that "He will deliver us" may have been an expression of their confidence that God would deliver them.
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Bolshevik
Haven't seen anything convincing. Like I said, the ones who claim to have been healed are simple practicing the art of deception.
If the Bible really teaches a "Law of Believing". No.
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Larry N Moore
Well, if you haven't seen anything I guess that means you haven't seen anything. Yet, I don't know how you can believe those who claim they are/have been healed are lying to themselves.
Bolshevik, if you're agnostic or atheist it doesn't matter to me. Do you believe this:
God in the beginning . . .
Do you believe God created all that we see?
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TheInvisibleDan
Several years ago, my mother went into the hospital with a severe kidney infection. It was a horrible experience for her, and she underwent a mental
breakdown atop of everything else (apparently they had also given her some bad saline solution).. It didn't help that she was placed in the same room as a terminal cancer patient, continually attended by this patient's relatives actually shunning my mother's presence there. I am still angered to this day by the way those god-damned worthless doctors and nurses ignored her, and brushed aside my desperate inquiries as to what the hell was going on with my mother, and what they were doing about it.
The next night she had ended up in the psych ward. And the following day a doctor inquired of her as to what was going on at home to have driven her to such a state(!)
No doubt, an exercise in preserving the supposed good name of the hospital. Looking back now, we should have sued those b@*#rds.
In any event, I prayed very intensely for my mother. I prayed in tongues, and I prayed with my understanding. I envisioned her in my mind, dressed up and packing her suitcase, getting ready to leave. When I went to the hospital the following day (she was expected to be there another week), I was absolutely blown away when walking into
her room, to see her all dressed up and packing her suitcase, getting ready to leave. Just as I had envisioned this happening in my mind. A week ahead of schedule.
And I thanked God. I will never forget this.
There was - and I think may still be- something behind this "believing" stuff.
I don't pretend to understand it all. Nor do I assume Wierwille did either.
But he nonetheless struck some chords which inspired and motivated a many minds here, for better and for worse.
I think Linda Z hit on something extremely important in her post earlier. Exchange the word "believe" for "trust" and I think we approach closer to how
this verb - or idea - might be better understood. Or so at least to my own mind.
Now that I'm considering this experience concerning my mother, gives me pause to re-consider the way I've interpreted it all these years.
Did I myself generate this vision in my mind of my mother leaving the hospital amidst my prayers, - or did this vision actually originate from the Higher Power-
A prophetic vision in answer to my prayers?
Danny
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Sunesis
Glad to hear that invisible Dan. My father has gone to the hospital many times, several for severe kidney infection. I will tell you, that when you have severe urinary/kidney infection, when they give you the antibiotic for it, many times older people go into temporary dementia. Dad did that too - twice, out of his mind, two days later, sitting there like nothing had ever happened and not remembering a thing. I would have found out what they were giving your mother.
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oldiesman
I would surmise that God showed you the future if the vision appeared like a mirror image or photograph of the reality you experienced. Wow, that is amazing, if it happened like that.
I haven't a doubt that your believing was a contributory factor in the process.
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TheInvisibleDan
My "red drapes" experience, circ. 1981.
I was preparing to move out my parents' house, to move in with a couple other believers who were also searching for a place.
We made a list of the kind of place we wanted, to search for and to pray about. A musician friendly place where we could make a lot of noise.
On the same sheet as my list, I doodled an unusual house, which wasn't your typical garden variety cape or ranch.
but more like a three part cabin, with the main living room/kitchen in the center building, flanked by separate room/building on either side.
A week later, we got a call from a realtor in Middle Haddam that there was a rental in that town. Situated atop a mountain, in the woods from which one could see
the Connecticut river from afar. When we saw the house, it was a dead-ringer for the doodle of the unusual house I had sketched.
What a cool place this was. Perfect for two guitarists and a drummer. So isolated one could record stuff in the middle of the night, in the bedrooms which were
separate buildings attached to the house
Someday, I'll have to dig up this sketch, and take a trip to Middle Haddam down the road to snap a pic,
and post them here side by side.
Interesting that these two events in my life occurred in my first three years with the Way, before I got more heavily involved with the organization itself.
Danny
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cman
Along the 'way' believing and trust IN became believing and trust FOR.
I trust and believe in the answers coming and things supplied that we need.
So I keep an eye out for these things.
Just live and don't worry.
Believing FOR is worrying/doubt.
For is really opposed to in, cause if it's b/t for, it's not b/t in.
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Ham
Well.. as a canned "rememdy".. I can't see how it's any better than one of Granny's all fire sure cold cures.. take it, and inside of three or four weeks, you'll be like a spring chicken, no matter how bad the cold..
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Larry N Moore
It's amazing how well a placebo will work in some cases. :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_effect
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Ham
One of my professors got in a lot of trouble for that in his younger days..
In school, he sold tapes to fellow students. Said they had the lessons implanted on them subliminally, and if they listened to the tapes and studied, they'd get better grades, money back guarantee. It really worked..
Until the people who ran the university found out.. and further found out they were really blank tapes..
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Larry N Moore
:) Yeah, but . . . I imagine the students didn't care. They still made the grade.
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waysider
Just wanted to mention that I have started an anecdote thread in About The Way.
It happened to *me*------
(In case anybody would like to post a personal experience or move a post over there.)
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Bolshevik
Wierwille couldn't do it.
twi couldn't do it.
seems to me nobody can.
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doojable
I don't know where this thread is..I haven't read much of the last few pages.
I'm gonna give my two cents anyway.
Any "believing" that is going to have any power or result in our lives is going to have to include a belief that God's Word is true.
It's not "how big" or "how much more" you believe; it is THAT you believe.
When the disciples asked Jesus to "increase their faith" (I'll find the scripture reference later, along with any pertinent Greek words) they were asking for their faith to "be made bigger."
They wanted VOLUME.
Jesus said it was only THAT they believe. That is where he starts talking about believing the size of a mustard seed.
So it is:
THAT God can heal...
THAT God delivers...
THAT God supplies...
THAT God is a loving Father that takes care of His children...
One cannot increase his or her faith. He can only increase how many promises he believes.
We were always saying that we needed to "believe bigger" and that was just a bunch of bunk.
And still there are no guarantees because sometimes the answer to prayer is, "No."
If we are honestly going to proclaim God's sovereignty, then we must also accept when he does not give us what we ask for - believing or not.
And in my humble opinion, THAT is why believing is not a LAW. I am instructed to have faith...I'd say it is a strong request, by the Father that we believe what he has told us and allow Him to be a Heavenly parent.
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pawtucket
The audio interview is now available
click here
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Lifted Up
I suppose to lower the validity of someone's assertion, we have to put our jaws on the floor.
I'm not sure they had any doubt. They may have been just trying to tell King you know who that they wouldn't bow to his idol even if that meant death. Their seeming assertion that "He will deliver us" may have been an expression of their confidence that God would deliver them.
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