So many newbies, so many still blinded by vp...

[Abigail]

I dunno, I always tell my kids it takes two to have an argument. There is always a choice, respond in anger and argue or be quiet and say nothing. Walk away.

I guess I can't look at this thread and think the path it has gone down is all the "fault" of one person. I can't read what is here and think only one person has responded with "TWI" tactics. I can't remember who said it, but someone made a statement about how there are those who come here pushing and fighting and arguing for how great PFAL was and you have those who argue equally passionately against it.

Both sides are pushing their own agenda with equal force and neither side is really listening to what the other is saying.

[Abigail]

For whoever may be interested, and I know there is at least one person because she and I conversed about it a tiny bit in chat last night:

We are entering into the 10 days of awe that precede Yom Kippur. During this time the Jewish people make time for introspection. They make time to apologize and to the degree possible, make reparations for wrongs against others.

I understand from my conversation that there are also some Christians who practice this as well.

It might be interesting to find a few people who are interested in sort of having a group introspection. A time where we might share some of the things we are discovering within ourselves over the next 10 days - as opposed to the mote we see in our brother's eyes.

Again - I say this not with a view towards expecting people to observe this. We are all at different places, have different needs, etc. etc.

I just toss it out there for those who are interested, and somehow it struck me that this thread might be a good place for it.

Edited September 14, 2007 by Abigail

[oldiesman]

Including: Mike.. Oldies.. YOU..

I've chosen to call friend those who GREATLY disagree with what I think..

I dunno..

ya know.. these ARE living souls that post here..

:)

That's a good attitude.

This one's on me, Mr. Hammeroni:

[oldiesman]

There are those of us who TRULY think he is a plant.

Then what better way is there to improve one's writing / debating skills?

Remember "iron sharpeneth iron".

[oldiesman]

Both sides are pushing their own agenda with equal force and neither side is really listening to what the other is saying.

Yeah but it helps keep the thread counts up. :)

We are entering into the 10 days of awe that precede Yom Kippur. During this time the Jewish people make time for introspection. They make time to apologize and to the degree possible, make reparations for wrongs against others.

This is madness! Do you want to totally destroy the forums?

[anotherDan]

We are entering into the 10 days of awe that precede Yom Kippur. During this time the Jewish people make time for introspection. They make time to apologize and to the degree possible, make reparations for wrongs against others.

I understand from my conversation that there are also some Christians who practice this as well.

It might be interesting to find a few people who are interested in sort of having a group introspection. A time where we might share some of the things we are discovering within ourselves over the next 10 days - as opposed to the mote we see in our brother's eyes.

That is a great thread idea. You could share how it's done in the Jewish community in the first post. But the actual practice of it would be of great value, I think. I ask myself, is what I just posted really a reflection of my best self? So often, I think the answer would be "no." So it helps to think about it.

Your mention of the mote-in-the-eye is so appropriate. What Jesus taught is designed to get ME to think about MY "lense." How often I make assumptions based upon what a person posts, perhaps in a weak moment, something I've done, I know. I don't know how many takers you'd have, Abi, but it's a wonderful idea.

[Abigail]

I'll start a thread in the doctrinal section - probably the most appropriate place for it. We'll see how it goes, if it stays peaceful, GREAT! If it turns into fighting I'll restart it in decaf. :)

[anotherDan]

And now back to newbies and how brash they can be!

:nono5:

[Larry N Moore]

This is just a test of the ability to post. Had this been an actual "emergency" the powers that be would not have permitted this post (at least not until they reviewed it ;)). :)

I bid you ALL adieu! :)

Edited September 14, 2007 by Larry N Moore

[Sudo]

Yeah yeah.. we get that a lot around here, Larry. Folks leaving in a huff and such. Don't let the door hit you on the butt on your way out. You have contributed nothing but animosity here, IMO.

sudo

[T-Bone]

I dunno, I always tell my kids it takes two to have an argument. There is always a choice, respond in anger and argue or be quiet and say nothing. Walk away.

I guess I can't look at this thread and think the path it has gone down is all the "fault" of one person. I can't read what is here and think only one person has responded with "TWI" tactics. I can't remember who said it, but someone made a statement about how there are those who come here pushing and fighting and arguing for how great PFAL was and you have those who argue equally passionately against it.

Both sides are pushing their own agenda with equal force and neither side is really listening to what the other is saying.

I said it earlier, what's going on here has nothing to do with point of view – it has everything to do with attitude. My dialogues with Oldies, Johniam, and White Dove in By the Way and Doctrinal forums – have been enjoyable and informative [as far as I'm concerned – you may want to ask them what they think of our discussions ].

It's obvious who is the one person responding with TWI-tactics. Click on the number of replies to this thread – a pop-up window will show the number of replies by each person. As of this writing – 74 of the 310 posts are by Larry. I'd recommend folks read through every post of his on this thread – and judge for themselves. If anyone thinks this is an isolated case – then I suggest they check out other threads – his manner there is typical of here. Look at WordWolf's thread What does God know? in Doctrinal. His posts are very revealing as to his attitude/agenda.

[tonto]

*Sniff-sniff-sniff*...hey, did somebody clean in here? Sure smells good!

Keeds, the next round's on me.

And Oldies, I'm still waiting to hear some Dylan.

(edited to request some Bob).

Edited September 14, 2007 by tonto

[Abigail]

T - I intentionally did not offer names. If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it. :)

I have read many, many of Larry's posts. I have also interacted with him in very positive ways, as I have with pretty much everyone who has posted in this thread.

I am suggesting that what occured in this thread could have been averted,by several participants, had any one of them decided to do so.

In fact, I would say Mr. Hammeroni did an excellant job!!

Edited September 14, 2007 by Abigail

[Abigail]

Think of it as a challenge. Not me against you or you against Larry, but you against yourself.

It is easy to point fingers at Larry and say it's all his fault. It makes things very clean and simple and requires no real effort or thought.

Looking within though - now that causes thought and effort. It can also promote growth.

And again, I am not naming names. People have to decide for themselves if they think the shoe may fit. People have to decide for themselves if they want to try out the challenge.

But if you do think there's a possibility the shoe fits, if you are up for trying the challenge . . .

Ask yourself how you could have responded differently to prompt a more positive outcome here.

Just a thought for whatever it may be worth to whomever it may be worth. Or Not.

[RainbowsGirl]

Think of it as a challenge. Not me against you or you against Larry, but you against yourself.

It is easy to point fingers at Larry and say it's all his fault. It makes things very clean and simple and requires no real effort or thought.

Looking within though - now that causes thought and effort. It can also promote growth.

And again, I am not naming names. People have to decide for themselves if they think the shoe may fit. People have to decide for themselves if they want to try out the challenge.

But if you do think there's a possibility the shoe fits, if you are up for trying the challenge . . .

Ask yourself how you could have responded differently to prompt a more positive outcome here.

Just a thought for whatever it may be worth to whomever it may be worth. Or Not.

Dear Abi,

I agree with all your posts in this thread and my experience with Larry is the same as yours has been! Too often we are too quick to judge or defend ourself unnecessarily. It would be so nice if we could be brave enough and strong enough to treat one another as we wanted to be treated and go the the extra mile to make sure not to hurt anyone...!

Pro 16:32 [He that is] slow to anger [is] better than the mighty; and he that ruleth his spirit than he that taketh a city

Jam 5:9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

I Love You All; and fortunately, it isn't dependent on how or whether you love me or see my heart in anything else nor the fact that I am replying here!

[wrdsandwrks]

Dear Abi,

I agree with all your posts in this thread and my experience with Larry is the same as yours has been! Too often we are too quick to judge or defend ourself unnecessarily. It would be so nice if we could be brave enough and strong enough to treat one another as we wanted to be treated and go the the extra mile to make sure not to hurt anyone...!

Pro 16:32 [He that is] slow to anger [is] better than the mighty; and he that ruleth his spirit than he that taketh a city

Jam 5:9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

I Love You All; and fortunately, it isn't dependent on how or whether you love me or see my heart in anything else nor the fact that I am replying here!

Abi, RG, Mr. Squirrel and really everyone on this thread, Love you guys, glad to be on this journey with you!

[T-Bone]

Abigail, I intentionally did not render judgment in my post but directed folks to merely look at Larry's posts and decide for themselves. What happened here – was the ideal thread for someone having a certain attitude and agenda to display their "talent" - revealing what they're all about – and when it gets nasty the said person can claim folks aren't loving and understanding toward the utter crap they're dishing out…"why, that's just like TWI tactics" - they pull out their "newbie" card which excuses them of all wrongs on their part.

I guess I'm not as trusting as some folks – I look at the "whole package" of someone. That's why I said look at other threads he's trashed. Does anyone see a pattern here? Gee whiz – if I wanted to come onto Grease Spot and do some damage as a troll – I'd be smart about it. I wouldn't take a kamikaze approach and attack everyone here – that's suicide. I'd chum up to a select few, so I could hide behind their good intentions, I would be able to stay on Grease Spot for an extended period and cause more damage.

Yeah, what happened here could have been averted – if we all just let the bully have things his way. Is that what Grease Spot is all about? The guy is either a plant, a troll or a lone PFAL grad with some SERIOUS issues and personality disorder – and ought to seek professional help….I'm down right proud of my Tonto. She's the man I should have been in TWI .

Edited September 14, 2007 by T-Bone

[tonto]

Thanks, T-B.

Gee whiz – if I wanted to come onto Grease Spot and do some damage as a troll – I'd be smart about it. I wouldn't take a kamikaze approach and attack everyone here – that's suicide. I'd chum up to a select few, so I could hide behind their good intentions, I would be able to stay on Grease Spot for an extended period and cause more damage.

Right on with your bad self.

[Abigail]

I have no need or desire to argue with you. So we disagree, big deal. I have yet to meet someone I always agree with.

Peace

[oldiesman]

Abigail, I intentionally did not render judgment in my post but directed folks to merely look at Larry's posts and decide for themselves.

I reviewed all of Larrys posts of the last week (I'm too bored to go through any more and its FRIDAY :o :D ) and can't find anything thats offensive.

Can't see what the big deal is all about.

I sent Larry a PM and encouraged Larry to stay here and I hope he does.

[Belle]

Don't worry, old one. He's still here. They never really leave, though, do they? They only threaten to and make promises they have no intention of keeping. I'm only surprised he didn't start a goodbye thread like they usually do. <_<

[oldiesman]

If anyone changes their mind its ok with me, I'm not perfect and make mistakes too.

[Dot Matrix]

Abigail, I intentionally did not render judgment in my post but directed folks to merely look at Larry's posts and decide for themselves. What happened here – was the ideal thread for someone having a certain attitude and agenda to display their "talent" - revealing what they're all about – and when it gets nasty the said person can claim folks aren't loving and understanding toward the utter crap they're dishing out…"why, that's just like TWI tactics" - they pull out their "newbie" card which excuses them of all wrongs on their part.

I guess I'm not as trusting as some folks – I look at the "whole package" of someone. That's why I said look at other threads he's trashed. Does anyone see a pattern here? Gee whiz – if I wanted to come onto Grease Spot and do some damage as a troll – I'd be smart about it. I wouldn't take a kamikaze approach and attack everyone here – that's suicide. I'd chum up to a select few, so I could hide behind their good intentions, I would be able to stay on Grease Spot for an extended period and cause more damage.

Yeah, what happened here could have been averted – if we all just let the bully have things his way. Is that what Grease Spot is all about? The guy is either a plant, a troll or a lone PFAL grad with some SERIOUS issues and personality disorder – and ought to seek professional help….I'm down right proud of my Tonto. She's the man I should have been in TWI .

T-bone

Moore likes assassinating forums, it is sport to him.

He has spotty niceness and then shows his colors again. He plays people.

Tonto did the right thing, and I do not apologize for one word I said, it is about time someone stood up to him rather than tried to make him a friend. So, for all those that did, my hat is off to you and thank you for your guts.

Tonto:

Do not let anyone try and make YOU feel badly just because they view things differently or their actions are different than yours. It may be right for them. They have no right to judge anyone else -- or frankly if we get into that, we could view others as kowtowing to a bully and sloughing aside old friends and acquaintances - in order not to step on the Goliath's toes. That is, should they decide that their actions were the ONLY correct ones. (Not that anyone is) -- I think people do what is right for them.

For those that tried a hand of friendship, maybe that is what God worked in you, I am glad you followed your heart as Tonto, myself and others followed theirs.

Edited September 15, 2007 by Dot Matrix

[Dot Matrix]

By the way, I believe it takes two to have an argument. And that may be a GREAT thing to teach kids, but sometimes you have to teach your kid how to make a fist and fight back.

There are times for each.

When in highschool we had HUGE racial tension and a group was doing things to us such as pushing us against the lockers and sticking their hands under our dresses. The girls who cried got it worse, and the ones who were "nice" it was endless.

My father taught me how to fight back and they never touched me again.

There is a time for everything. I think you did what you felt was right.

So, did I.

I see it like this, Larry was mean to a lot of people. It was the ATTITUDE.

God had some people try to reach him. That is wonderful

And when he continued to bark and snarl God sent in couple soldiers.

It was all good. He was given chances. (And he has not left, he is on another thread right now.)

I have no war with anyone who followed their heart in kindness or followed their heart in drawing a line and fighting back.

BTW, just look at the attitude in post #9 on page one to Sunesis then down to Cman, this attitude is all over the board from telling Rascal he would SPIT in her basket, to insulting DMILLER - how can anyone insult him, he is so sweet. Bulwinkl on some thread, John Jueudes as a minister he should not have time to post -- he posted 44 times since 2006 and look at Larry's posts since May. The attitude is endless. It is not the opinions it is the attitude. I had board people telling me they were leaving because his attitude changed the whole complexion of the board. I am so thankful that Tonto started this thread. Lovely people were being melted by the flame and they were just talking. It was time he got what he dishes out. Sorry, think what you want of me, I still feel that way. Sometimes you turn the other cheek and sometimes you knock the table over.

Sudo

I am with you;

don't let the door hit you in the arse

Edited September 15, 2007 by Dot Matrix

[Dot Matrix]

Yeah, what happened here could have been averted – if we all just let the bully have things his way. Is that what Grease Spot is all about? The guy is either a plant, a troll or a lone PFAL grad with some SERIOUS issues and personality disorder – and ought to seek professional help….I'm down right proud of my Tonto. She's the man I should have been in TWI .

I love this T-bone

I am also VERY proud of Tonto! It took guts girl -- Feels good not to eat everything in front of you doesn't it?

Edited to add,

okay I found it, I clicked on "replies" on the About the Way page and it is amazing how many posts Larry has. Funny, he had to know this thread was pretty much about him as he sure stuck around... But go down on the topics and look who comes in #1 with posts, on the hotter topics

This is creepy.

Edited September 15, 2007 by Dot Matrix