Wrds, what sparked this thread was my frustration with the obnoxious behavior of a few (certainly not most) relatively new posters.
When I was in twi I was expected to put up with and even coddle nasty people, whether they came to our twigs or if they were above us in the way tree. Like I said, I do my best to avoid jerks but when I see one barging into the cafe, breaking bottles over the counter and jabbing at people with the jagged edges I tend to get "frustrated".
Being a woman in twi (and a woman brought up with all the Southern expectations of how a lady is supposed to behave) was stifling. Looking back on my thirteen years in the cult, there were so many times I had that gut-level feeling that something or someone wasn't right...in fact was terribly wrong...but hey, who was I to be thinking/saying anything? We were taught early on to squelch our thoughts and words...(don't want to think or speak negatives, now do we)? I had no voice, but I sure do now. Abi brought up that some are finding their voices, even if they are harsh. ( Sorry Abi if I'm butchering your meaning).
I used the term twit-head because I believe if someone leaves twi but never examines the arrogant attitudes that abounded, then the bad parts of twi never left them. It's still there. It's in everything they do.
The arrogant 'I know what is best for you' attitude certainly seems to be tied to TWI doctrine. That is because it is considered by its followers to be the greatest truth since the Apostle Paul. I doubt they even realize they are being arrogant!
It's a telltale sign someone still has a strong TWI-influence [either directly or via offshoot], when they barge in with a certain belligerent attitude. It has NOTHING to do with their viewpoint – it has everything to do with their attitude. I thought Tonto's choice of words "people who choose to be ignorant" was good – one of the dictionary definitions of "ignorant" is "lacking knowledge or awareness of the thing specified."
I can understand if someone has never been touched by the overt acts of the predator. If they were impressed with the pristine Christian image of vpw presented [either directly by TWI or via offshoot], then they will hold his ministry in high regard.
It hits me as odd though, whenever someone comes here and begins whittling away at folks who have firsthand experience of TWI's dark side – and threads become a let's-turn the tables-around-on-the-TWI-critics game. In my opinion, the person is either a plant [of TWI or offshoot] or they're in denial after hearing some shocking information.
If they are a plant – they have chosen to attack those with experiential knowledge of TWI's dark side. To them I say, "Shame on you !!!!"
If they are merely someone who likes vpw's teachings and fond memories of their sweet TWI experiences – that's okay – I would warn them though – that visiting Grease Spot will more than likely have a negative impact on their thoughts about TWI. That's their choice if they want to risk that.
Grease Spot is not like TWI – where the only attitudes welcomed are the ones favorable to them. Nor is Grease Spot a church where everyone is encouraged to drop all their petty differences and have a group hug with Jesus. I like the atmosphere here because it gets people to think. I like the freedom here. I don't have to agree with someone, and don't have to like someone's belligerent attitude either – I can even say so out loud. I spent 12 years selling a pristine image of vpw to folks – and I'm certainly not interested in whitewashing that image now, because sales are down.
Wrds, what sparked this thread was my frustration with the obnoxious behavior of a few (certainly not most) relatively new posters.
When I was in twi I was expected to put up with and even coddle nasty people, whether they came to our twigs or if they were above us in the way tree. Like I said, I do my best to avoid jerks but when I see one barging into the cafe, breaking bottles over the counter and jabbing at people with the jagged edges I tend to get "frustrated".
Being a woman in twi (and a woman brought up with all the Southern expectations of how a lady is supposed to behave) was stifling. Looking back on my thirteen years in the cult, there were so many times I had that gut-level feeling that something or someone wasn't right...in fact was terribly wrong...but hey, who was I to be thinking/saying anything? We were taught early on to squelch our thoughts and words...(don't want to think or speak negatives, now do we)? I had no voice, but I sure do now. Abi brought up that some are finding their voices, even if they are harsh. ( Sorry Abi if I'm butchering your meaning).
I used the term twit-head because I believe if someone leaves twi but never examines the arrogant attitudes that abounded, then the bad parts of twi never left them. It's still there. It's in everything they do.
Tonto, I can certainly understand your frustration, as well as relating to your experience in the cult (and as a Southerner). I felt the same stifling. At the time of our leaving in 1986, after being badgered for years (not by my own husband but by those over us) to be the good little submissive "leader's" wife, I had nothing left of my self. It's been a process.
I love what you guys both wrote. While we were in our former denomination, "ministry," cult, or whatever you want to call it, venting was not allowed, in any way shape or form. Unless of course, it was the case of an "important somebody" screaming and yelling at someone of lesser rank in the pecking order of the "way tree."
I love this greasy cafe, because we can vent all we want. Venting can be a very good thing, healthy even. Tonto, I don't view you starting this thread as a "temper tantrum" at all. Just a healthy expression of frustration, which we are allowed to emote here. (Thank you, Paw.) I think you had the "boldness" to put words to something that I too, have felt and experienced over the time I've spent here. And as I've said, it has been very freeing for me, to grow a thicker skin, and not take it all so personally. This was a growth process for me.
Geeze, I find out who you really are and now you're gonna take off?
I know you. Didn't we spend a bit of time talking at the ROA? I think you knew Cheryl H.? Maybe you worked in a broom factory once? Not sure if I've got the right guy, but it seems like it. Memory being what it is, well, I have my limits.
...
If you remembered i worked in a broom factory at one time as a broom-maker I'm impressed.
Well, after almost 30 years, I guess that's not remarkable. Maybe I thought you two had a closer friendship than you did.
I just remember sitting around talking about how you made the brooms and how you got paid - that kind of stuff - one day long ago in an Ohio Cornfield.
Wrds, what sparked this thread was my frustration with the obnoxious behavior of a few (certainly not most) relatively new posters.
When I was in twi I was expected to put up with and even coddle nasty people, whether they came to our twigs or if they were above us in the way tree. Like I said, I do my best to avoid jerks but when I see one barging into the cafe, breaking bottles over the counter and jabbing at people with the jagged edges I tend to get "frustrated".
Being a woman in twi (and a woman brought up with all the Southern expectations of how a lady is supposed to behave) was stifling. Looking back on my thirteen years in the cult, there were so many times I had that gut-level feeling that something or someone wasn't right...in fact was terribly wrong...but hey, who was I to be thinking/saying anything? We were taught early on to squelch our thoughts and words...(don't want to think or speak negatives, now do we)? I had no voice, but I sure do now. Abi brought up that some are finding their voices, even if they are harsh. ( Sorry Abi if I'm butchering your meaning).
I used the term twit-head because I believe if someone leaves twi but never examines the arrogant attitudes that abounded, then the bad parts of twi never left them. It's still there. It's in everything they do.
Great post Tonto!
the arrogance of some new poster(s) has been palatable
There is no need for a castrated bull, to barge in here looking for his testicles, by verbally backing down & murdering people with a smug Craig-like attitude.
It is harsh and uncalled for, I am thankful Tonto and T-bone spoke up.
Anyone want to be like Craig? Go find him and knock yourselves out with the vein popping madness and ego mania. There is no need for it here. Unless of course they are plants, which many think they are, and I tend to agree.
And yes, someone may get offended by "Twit" but that was a response to such bad behavior all over the board, on the part of a newbie, I find it an understatement.
Wrds and Wrks
It is a tragedy that SOM is no longer posting as he is such an asset and if given a chance he would have been the welcome well in the middle of a dessert.
However, you all showed up around the same time as the "badger (s)". I am truly sorry that the frustration leaked onto you and yours. If anyone knew you, they would know you are NOT pro TWI – but VERY pro-God. Not surviving on ego, but kind caring souls who love God's people
I hope that Som will feel welcome if he ever pokes his head in here again
Rosestoyou and Lizzie
Surely you know this is not about either of you, it is pretty obvious the one (s) who has been arrogantly throwing the weight around with rude condescending fever - it is not you - welcome
I've been working on "a soft answer turneth away wrath." I've no where near perfected it yet, but I am working on it.
Sometimes people come in here and come across offensive for reasons we don't even begin to know. But if we respond softly, if we give them some room and some time, we may find they are really good people afterall. On the other hand, if we respond in kind, by being offensive, well, it may be our loss in that we may never get to know them, never get to see their softer side, never get to discover what great contributions they may be able to add.
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tonto
Wrds, what sparked this thread was my frustration with the obnoxious behavior of a few (certainly not most) relatively new posters.
When I was in twi I was expected to put up with and even coddle nasty people, whether they came to our twigs or if they were above us in the way tree. Like I said, I do my best to avoid jerks but when I see one barging into the cafe, breaking bottles over the counter and jabbing at people with the jagged edges I tend to get "frustrated".
Being a woman in twi (and a woman brought up with all the Southern expectations of how a lady is supposed to behave) was stifling. Looking back on my thirteen years in the cult, there were so many times I had that gut-level feeling that something or someone wasn't right...in fact was terribly wrong...but hey, who was I to be thinking/saying anything? We were taught early on to squelch our thoughts and words...(don't want to think or speak negatives, now do we)? I had no voice, but I sure do now. Abi brought up that some are finding their voices, even if they are harsh. ( Sorry Abi if I'm butchering your meaning).
I used the term twit-head because I believe if someone leaves twi but never examines the arrogant attitudes that abounded, then the bad parts of twi never left them. It's still there. It's in everything they do.
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cman
right on tonto
till one decides to EXAMINE what they were trained in
they will will never know
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Bramble
The arrogant 'I know what is best for you' attitude certainly seems to be tied to TWI doctrine. That is because it is considered by its followers to be the greatest truth since the Apostle Paul. I doubt they even realize they are being arrogant!
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T-Bone
It's a telltale sign someone still has a strong TWI-influence [either directly or via offshoot], when they barge in with a certain belligerent attitude. It has NOTHING to do with their viewpoint – it has everything to do with their attitude. I thought Tonto's choice of words "people who choose to be ignorant" was good – one of the dictionary definitions of "ignorant" is "lacking knowledge or awareness of the thing specified."
I can understand if someone has never been touched by the overt acts of the predator. If they were impressed with the pristine Christian image of vpw presented [either directly by TWI or via offshoot], then they will hold his ministry in high regard.
It hits me as odd though, whenever someone comes here and begins whittling away at folks who have firsthand experience of TWI's dark side – and threads become a let's-turn the tables-around-on-the-TWI-critics game. In my opinion, the person is either a plant [of TWI or offshoot] or they're in denial after hearing some shocking information.
If they are a plant – they have chosen to attack those with experiential knowledge of TWI's dark side. To them I say, "Shame on you !!!!"
If they are merely someone who likes vpw's teachings and fond memories of their sweet TWI experiences – that's okay – I would warn them though – that visiting Grease Spot will more than likely have a negative impact on their thoughts about TWI. That's their choice if they want to risk that.
Grease Spot is not like TWI – where the only attitudes welcomed are the ones favorable to them. Nor is Grease Spot a church where everyone is encouraged to drop all their petty differences and have a group hug with Jesus. I like the atmosphere here because it gets people to think. I like the freedom here. I don't have to agree with someone, and don't have to like someone's belligerent attitude either – I can even say so out loud. I spent 12 years selling a pristine image of vpw to folks – and I'm certainly not interested in whitewashing that image now, because sales are down.
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anotherDan
Just wanted to say to Tonto that I think you captured Abi's meaning perfectly.
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wrdsandwrks
Tonto, I can certainly understand your frustration, as well as relating to your experience in the cult (and as a Southerner). I felt the same stifling. At the time of our leaving in 1986, after being badgered for years (not by my own husband but by those over us) to be the good little submissive "leader's" wife, I had nothing left of my self. It's been a process.
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ex10
Tonto and T-bone,
I love what you guys both wrote. While we were in our former denomination, "ministry," cult, or whatever you want to call it, venting was not allowed, in any way shape or form. Unless of course, it was the case of an "important somebody" screaming and yelling at someone of lesser rank in the pecking order of the "way tree."
I love this greasy cafe, because we can vent all we want. Venting can be a very good thing, healthy even. Tonto, I don't view you starting this thread as a "temper tantrum" at all. Just a healthy expression of frustration, which we are allowed to emote here. (Thank you, Paw.) I think you had the "boldness" to put words to something that I too, have felt and experienced over the time I've spent here. And as I've said, it has been very freeing for me, to grow a thicker skin, and not take it all so personally. This was a growth process for me.
Post on, my friends. I love your "ventings."
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excathedra
sis, i was joshing !!!
love,your sis
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bulwinkl
If you remembered i worked in a broom factory at one time as a broom-maker I'm impressed.
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ex10
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George Aar
Eh, it's just one of those bits of trivia that stuck to my brain, kinda like flypaper. Amazing how arbitrary it can be though.
So, long time no see! Ever hear from Cheryl anymore?
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excathedra
awwww i love when people find each other
remember me ? flying by on a broom ?
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bulwinkl
Actually I can't remember her.
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excathedra
that made me laugh, i don't know why
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George Aar
Well, after almost 30 years, I guess that's not remarkable. Maybe I thought you two had a closer friendship than you did.
I just remember sitting around talking about how you made the brooms and how you got paid - that kind of stuff - one day long ago in an Ohio Cornfield.
Almost seems like somebody else's life now...
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waysider
I think I've only ever heard of one "broom factory" in my life and that one is in Wooster.
Same one?/Long story.
BTW--- the new avatar is "otta site".
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bulwinkl
Same state wrong city mine was Vining Broom in Springfield.
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excathedra
bulwinkl your avatar is my fave to date
and knowing you made brooms, makes me love you even more !!!!!
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bulwinkl
aww shucks
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dmiller
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anotherDan
who could not love a former broom maker?
ex10, great post to Tonto/TBone
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excathedra
thank you, d
i'm honored
love you
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Dot Matrix
Great post Tonto!
the arrogance of some new poster(s) has been palatable
There is no need for a castrated bull, to barge in here looking for his testicles, by verbally backing down & murdering people with a smug Craig-like attitude.
It is harsh and uncalled for, I am thankful Tonto and T-bone spoke up.
Anyone want to be like Craig? Go find him and knock yourselves out with the vein popping madness and ego mania. There is no need for it here. Unless of course they are plants, which many think they are, and I tend to agree.
And yes, someone may get offended by "Twit" but that was a response to such bad behavior all over the board, on the part of a newbie, I find it an understatement.
Wrds and Wrks
It is a tragedy that SOM is no longer posting as he is such an asset and if given a chance he would have been the welcome well in the middle of a dessert.
However, you all showed up around the same time as the "badger (s)". I am truly sorry that the frustration leaked onto you and yours. If anyone knew you, they would know you are NOT pro TWI – but VERY pro-God. Not surviving on ego, but kind caring souls who love God's people
I hope that Som will feel welcome if he ever pokes his head in here again
Rosestoyou and Lizzie
Surely you know this is not about either of you, it is pretty obvious the one (s) who has been arrogantly throwing the weight around with rude condescending fever - it is not you - welcome
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Abigail
I've been working on "a soft answer turneth away wrath." I've no where near perfected it yet, but I am working on it.
Sometimes people come in here and come across offensive for reasons we don't even begin to know. But if we respond softly, if we give them some room and some time, we may find they are really good people afterall. On the other hand, if we respond in kind, by being offensive, well, it may be our loss in that we may never get to know them, never get to see their softer side, never get to discover what great contributions they may be able to add.
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