Geeze, I find out who you really are and now you're gonna take off?
I know you. Didn't we spend a bit of time talking at the ROA? I think you knew Cheryl H.? Maybe you worked in a broom factory once? Not sure if I've got the right guy, but it seems like it. Memory being what it is, well, I have my limits.
I think you should reconsider just leaving. Sure there's jerks that frequent the place (I'm quite sure some would put ME in that category), but we all know who they are after awhile and just marginalize them or ignore them entirely. The rest are pretty much regular folks. No need to get too worked up about the occasional self-absorbed, condescending patricians that vent some gas here. It's probably one of their only places where they have any voice anymore, so...
I think it is time for me to move on. I leave GS since it has become so vindictive. Call me thin skinned or call me anything you wish, makes nary a bit of difference to me. I got along fine w/o GS for 21 years and I'll prolly survive just fine in the future. I came to GS to find friends that I lost over the years, and some of them I have. I felt I keen loss when I found out a friend who I loved very dearly had died so I tried to reconnect to others. I have met success in some and total failure in others. But that's life isn't it. I'm sure the healing process will continue here w/o me. Have fun all. I leave you to your petty bickering.
John Coder
I totally understand, John. I've been here just a few weeks myself, and I definitely could have written that same post a number of times. If you do go, I will miss you. Then again, I may follow you out the door, and "they" can miss us both! If I stick around, I do hope you come back. There are decaffinated forums for folks like us, you know! And chat is quite different from posting, though it often gets just "chatty" instead of substantive, which can be fine, too -- even welcome.
It does get downright ugly here. The only way to survive is to find some friends, and love everyone else, too. You would definitely have a friend in me. I am glad you stopped in, but sorry you got hurt. I love you, man (but you're not getting my Bud Light)
How about just hangin' out on the music lovers thread - that's a happy place. I stick to that and the prayer thread, maybe the kitchen thread when it gets so deep in others. And it's not like that all the time around here.
Anyone with your taste in music - would be a loss to the music lovers thread.
Whew, first of all...thank you dooj and everyone for your posts. Yes dooj, you're right...it was a rant.
When I left twi I left some great people, but I also left behind some jerks. I do my best to avoid jerks in real life. That goes for here at the cafe as well. Sure, I can use the ignore button and I may, but I also have the right to express my annoyance with some people who seem to enjoy making the cafe nasty for everyone.
White Dove, I didn't mean to insult you. I often don't agree with your posts but you seem like a really decent person. There's a bunch of people here at the cafe who I don't agree with but I would welcome you and them into my home. However, there are a few nasty, nasty jerks who spoil the cafe experience for me.
Bullwinkle, I hope you don't leave. You seem like a sweet guy.
Bulwinkl, I sure hope you stay. Realize some posters are here to sucker folks into fights – maybe with the express purpose of getting a newbie so frustrated they'll leave Grease Spot and never hear the other side of the story nor tell their own.
Gosh, as a newcomer to this thread, but an oldtimer who has hung around the cafe for a long time....
I will give my unsolicitated opinion. (Hey, that's what we do here. :o )
Tonto, I am with you totally. Hence, my lack of serious? (not the right word, but I'm old) posts for what? the past year or so? or maybe two? can't remember perxactly. I confess to getting tired of the same ole conversations, and mental jousting over and over. Ok, so shoot me, or just ignore me.
My experience here and at Waydale has taught me that the arrogant snipers really don't hang around for long. Fortunately. Those of us who stick around, seem to me to be those of us who made some connections way back a long time ago, and are interested in keeping some of the good things about spending our youth in the way, ie those connections with wonderful people, long lost friends, even family members, etc.
Relationships rule. It's not really possible in my real, face to face life to keep up with old (and new) friends and acquaintances on a personal level. But I can do it here, in a ton of ways, ie chat, posts, pm's, etc.
I guess what I'm saying is, who cares what somebody you never knew, and don't know now, thinks about TWI? He/she didn't have my/our/your experience, so read what they have to say, take it with a huge glass of wine, coffee, herb tea, Mountain Dew, whatever, and enjoy it for what it is: somebody else's opinion, experience, neurosis, arrogance, whatevah
Whatever it is, it isn't personal. Sometimes, dumb butts try to make it that. What folly. Let them waste their precious time and life. Just cause they are hellbent on being "somebody important" doesn't me I have to let them.
<snip> Those of us who stick around, seem to me to be those of us who made some connections way back a long time ago, and are interested in keeping some of the good things about spending our youth in the way, ie those connections with wonderful people, long lost friends, even family members, etc. <snip>
Yep. Sounds like a clique to me. :)
Clique a narrow exclusive circle or group of persons; especially : one held together by common interests, views, or purposes.
We all have different interests, views and purposes.
Some cross paths and some don't.
Maybe you should look around for more then you are now.
The ones that don't think as another do not bother most here.
The way people are treated that think differently is the difference, mainly.
Cman, people get so offended anytime someone happens to refer to a group of people as a clique. It's really not a negative connotation. Look at the definition I cited. Does it say anything about it being wrong. No. We all (well most of us are) members of one clique or another. I'm sure you all have various interests, views and purposes but here at GS you have one common bond -- a deep aversion towards TWI and that is your primary focus. Anyone who doesn't share that aversion is an outsider. Unfortunately, some people would like nothing better than to see us go away. At least that's the sense I get when I see topics such as this started. And it really is difficult to stay when you feel you're not really welcomed. I personally, never was much for popularity contests. If you like me fine. If you don't -- well I won't lose any sleep over it.
I happen to not be in a clique - though I've been accused of it. :huh:
I know a few posters here (I most likely would know more if I knew their names instead of their screen names) from real life. I know quite a few posters here because I've taken the time to get to know them.
I like reminsicing. I like meeting new folks. For the most part, I like people. I don't reject many people out of hand. Even when I don't agree with a person, I dont' see them as inferior.
Now, if someone really feels like I am in a clique, then that is completely cool! I was never in a clique before. I wonder what I should wear to the meetings... Is the dress "casual" or "casually elegant"? ;)
Cman, people get so offended anytime someone happens to refer to a group of people as a clique. It's really not a negative connotation. Look at the definition I cited. Does it say anything about it being wrong. No. We all (well most of us are) members of one clique or another. I'm sure you all have various interests, views and purposes but here at GS you have one common bond -- a deep aversion towards TWI and that is your primary focus. Anyone who doesn't share that aversion is an outsider. Unfortunately, some people would like nothing better than to see us go away. At least that's the sense I get when I see topics such as this started. And it really is difficult to stay when you feel you're not really welcomed. I personally, never was much for popularity contests. If you like me fine. If you don't -- well I won't lose any sleep over it.
Yes but... most of our memories of a clique come from High School... or TWI ;)... or our children's High School experiences...
You may have cited a definition - but the word carries a strong connotation.
I'm sure you all have various interests, views and purposes but here at GS you have one common bond -- a deep aversion towards TWI and that is your primary focus. Anyone who doesn't share that aversion is an outsider. Unfortunately, some people would like nothing better than to see us go away.
You are mistaken and do not see what greasespot is and does.
Though there are those who just want to intimidate control manipulate and start fights.
I don't feel like an outsider, Larry. Really, we who are trying to "keep the baby" while throwing out the bathwater (that's my clique, and proud of it. "You are welcome at the Clique") seem quite welcome here. Sure, those who are really intent on exposing moral and/or doctrinal shortcomings of the Way and VP may get intense, and it may seem to you that they are invalidating your experience or POV (granted, some do in fact do that!) but working it out is a very helpful side benefit to "telling the other side of the story." The title of this thread is provocative. It's what they do around here, sometimes.
I don't feel like an outsider, but I do feel like a guest. My goal is not the same as GS. I happen to think that GS's goal is a worthy one, if it's done responsibly, and sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't, IMO. But it's not my goal to tell "the other side of the story." It's also not my goal to sugarcoat or be in denial to the problems that existed in TWI. My goals are not incompatible with GS's, but I do feel like a guest here, and for me, I think it requires of me the courtesy one gives a host in his own home.
As a fellow newbie, I've had to deal with some of the stuff you're expressing. Sometimes I've been downright offended, so I empathize. But overall, I think you'd have to agree that there are some wonderful folks around here, and some oldtimers that can teach us newbies a thing or two.
I'm sure you all have various interests, views and purposes but here at GS you have one common bond -- a deep aversion towards TWI and that is your primary focus. Anyone who doesn't share that aversion is an outsider. Unfortunately, some people would like nothing better than to see us go away. At least that's the sense I get when I see topics such as this started. And it really is difficult to stay when you feel you're not really welcomed. I personally, never was much for popularity contests. If you like me fine. If you don't -- well I won't lose any sleep over it.
Larry, I think you make some valid points here. There are many who have a deep aversion to TWI. There are a few who probably do not. The many can at times leave a person feeling unwelcomed.
But, there are also those who could care less what someone else thinks of TWI. And there are those with a deep aversion to TWI who you would have other things in common with. This place is huge, there are a LOT of people here.
And I'll walk out on a ledge a bit here and suggest that even many of those with a deep aversion for TWI, who at times seem to really intesensly dislike those who don't, would offer a hand of friendship to those who don't under the right circumstances - would feed them if that was the need, etc. etc.
This place can be very one dimensional at times. We see some angry words on a screen and we are left with the impression that that is the sum and substance of who the person is, when in fact it is not! That is why I am enjoying Dan's interview threads so much, it gives us an opportunity to add a few dimensions to the picture. :)
Lately, as I read some of the intenesely emotional posts that have come up around here, I keep thinking "a soft answer turneth away wrath." I am trying to practice this more and more, trying to simply say nothing if I can't give a soft answer. Maybe come back later and respond when I can.
But I know for others, giving that harsher answer is also a part of the process. It is a part of how we learn how to speak up for ourselves again, or maybe for the first time, after so many years of silence within TWI.
Lately, as I read some of the intensely emotional posts that have come up around here, I keep thinking "a soft answer turneth away wrath." I am trying to practice this more and more, trying to simply say nothing if I can't give a soft answer. Maybe come back later and respond when I can.
But I know for others, giving that harsher answer is also a part of the process. It is a part of how we learn how to speak up for ourselves again, or maybe for the first time, after so many years of silence within TWI.
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waysider
Don't be a stranger, John.
Come back and visit sometime.
And bring some more of your wife's sweet music with you if you do come back.
(Pretty please?)
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George Aar
Geeze, I find out who you really are and now you're gonna take off?
I know you. Didn't we spend a bit of time talking at the ROA? I think you knew Cheryl H.? Maybe you worked in a broom factory once? Not sure if I've got the right guy, but it seems like it. Memory being what it is, well, I have my limits.
I think you should reconsider just leaving. Sure there's jerks that frequent the place (I'm quite sure some would put ME in that category), but we all know who they are after awhile and just marginalize them or ignore them entirely. The rest are pretty much regular folks. No need to get too worked up about the occasional self-absorbed, condescending patricians that vent some gas here. It's probably one of their only places where they have any voice anymore, so...
Check into chat from time to time anyway, huh?
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anotherDan
I totally understand, John. I've been here just a few weeks myself, and I definitely could have written that same post a number of times. If you do go, I will miss you. Then again, I may follow you out the door, and "they" can miss us both! If I stick around, I do hope you come back. There are decaffinated forums for folks like us, you know! And chat is quite different from posting, though it often gets just "chatty" instead of substantive, which can be fine, too -- even welcome.
It does get downright ugly here. The only way to survive is to find some friends, and love everyone else, too. You would definitely have a friend in me. I am glad you stopped in, but sorry you got hurt. I love you, man (but you're not getting my Bud Light)
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bowtwi
Hey bulwinkl - pssssttttt!
How about just hangin' out on the music lovers thread - that's a happy place. I stick to that and the prayer thread, maybe the kitchen thread when it gets so deep in others. And it's not like that all the time around here.
Anyone with your taste in music - would be a loss to the music lovers thread.
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excathedra
i'll miss you too. you've been so nice to me
----
and as my dear friend's father said
f the fing fers
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tonto
Whew, first of all...thank you dooj
and everyone for your posts. Yes dooj, you're right...it was a rant.
When I left twi I left some great people, but I also left behind some jerks. I do my best to avoid jerks in real life. That goes for here at the cafe as well. Sure, I can use the ignore button and I may, but I also have the right to express my annoyance with some people who seem to enjoy making the cafe nasty for everyone.
White Dove, I didn't mean to insult you. I often don't agree with your posts but you seem like a really decent person. There's a bunch of people here at the cafe who I don't agree with but I would welcome you and them into my home. However, there are a few nasty, nasty jerks who spoil the cafe experience for me.
Bullwinkle, I hope you don't leave. You seem like a sweet guy.
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T-Bone
Bulwinkl, I sure hope you stay. Realize some posters are here to sucker folks into fights – maybe with the express purpose of getting a newbie so frustrated they'll leave Grease Spot and never hear the other side of the story nor tell their own.
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doojable
We're cool, Tonto!
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anotherDan
bulwinK: ditto to what Tbone and tonto said.
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T-Bone
Just wondering...would you elaborate on that, please.
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ex10
Gosh, as a newcomer to this thread, but an oldtimer who has hung around the cafe for a long time....
I will give my unsolicitated opinion. (Hey, that's what we do here. :o )
Tonto, I am with you totally. Hence, my lack of serious? (not the right word, but I'm old) posts for what? the past year or so? or maybe two? can't remember perxactly. I confess to getting tired of the same ole conversations, and mental jousting over and over. Ok, so shoot me, or just ignore me.
My experience here and at Waydale has taught me that the arrogant snipers really don't hang around for long. Fortunately. Those of us who stick around, seem to me to be those of us who made some connections way back a long time ago, and are interested in keeping some of the good things about spending our youth in the way, ie those connections with wonderful people, long lost friends, even family members, etc.
Relationships rule. It's not really possible in my real, face to face life to keep up with old (and new) friends and acquaintances on a personal level. But I can do it here, in a ton of ways, ie chat, posts, pm's, etc.
I guess what I'm saying is, who cares what somebody you never knew, and don't know now, thinks about TWI? He/she didn't have my/our/your experience, so read what they have to say, take it with a huge glass of wine, coffee, herb tea, Mountain Dew, whatever, and enjoy it for what it is: somebody else's opinion, experience, neurosis, arrogance, whatevah
Whatever it is, it isn't personal. Sometimes, dumb butts try to make it that. What folly. Let them waste their precious time and life. Just cause they are hellbent on being "somebody important" doesn't me I have to let them.
Gosh, I love being out of a cult.
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Abigail
I dunno. On the one hand, I get the "tired of the same old conversations and debates" thing - really!!!
On the other hand, we were all newbies at some point in time, no?
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Larry N Moore
Yep. Sounds like a clique to me. :)
Clique a narrow exclusive circle or group of persons; especially : one held together by common interests, views, or purposes.
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cman
It's not exclusive, or narrow, Larry.
And it's not a clique as you describe it.
We all have different interests, views and purposes.
Some cross paths and some don't.
Maybe you should look around for more then you are now.
The ones that don't think as another do not bother most here.
The way people are treated that think differently is the difference, mainly.
What you are saying is possibly what you want it to be.
Or what you are doing, I don't know.
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Larry N Moore
Cman, people get so offended anytime someone happens to refer to a group of people as a clique. It's really not a negative connotation. Look at the definition I cited. Does it say anything about it being wrong. No. We all (well most of us are) members of one clique or another. I'm sure you all have various interests, views and purposes but here at GS you have one common bond -- a deep aversion towards TWI and that is your primary focus. Anyone who doesn't share that aversion is an outsider. Unfortunately, some people would like nothing better than to see us go away. At least that's the sense I get when I see topics such as this started. And it really is difficult to stay when you feel you're not really welcomed. I personally, never was much for popularity contests. If you like me fine. If you don't -- well I won't lose any sleep over it.
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doojable
How did you get "exclusive" from Ex10's post?
I happen to not be in a clique - though I've been accused of it. :huh:
I know a few posters here (I most likely would know more if I knew their names instead of their screen names) from real life. I know quite a few posters here because I've taken the time to get to know them.
I like reminsicing. I like meeting new folks. For the most part, I like people. I don't reject many people out of hand. Even when I don't agree with a person, I dont' see them as inferior.
Now, if someone really feels like I am in a clique, then that is completely cool! I was never in a clique before. I wonder what I should wear to the meetings... Is the dress "casual" or "casually elegant"? ;)
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cman
I'm not offended Larry.
Is that what you want me to be, offended and upset at what you say?
pfffft..
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doojable
Yes but... most of our memories of a clique come from High School... or TWI ;)... or our children's High School experiences...
You may have cited a definition - but the word carries a strong connotation.
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Larry N Moore
I don't WANT you to be anything. Just being yourself is fine by me. :)
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cman
You are mistaken and do not see what greasespot is and does.
Though there are those who just want to intimidate control manipulate and start fights.
They can have at it, don't bother me any.
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Larry N Moore
Well, good golly - it wouldn't be the first time. But you're certainly not helping me change my opinion any. :)
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anotherDan
I don't feel like an outsider, Larry. Really, we who are trying to "keep the baby" while throwing out the bathwater (that's my clique, and proud of it. "You are welcome at the Clique") seem quite welcome here. Sure, those who are really intent on exposing moral and/or doctrinal shortcomings of the Way and VP may get intense, and it may seem to you that they are invalidating your experience or POV (granted, some do in fact do that!) but working it out is a very helpful side benefit to "telling the other side of the story." The title of this thread is provocative. It's what they do around here, sometimes.
I don't feel like an outsider, but I do feel like a guest. My goal is not the same as GS. I happen to think that GS's goal is a worthy one, if it's done responsibly, and sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't, IMO. But it's not my goal to tell "the other side of the story." It's also not my goal to sugarcoat or be in denial to the problems that existed in TWI. My goals are not incompatible with GS's, but I do feel like a guest here, and for me, I think it requires of me the courtesy one gives a host in his own home.
As a fellow newbie, I've had to deal with some of the stuff you're expressing. Sometimes I've been downright offended, so I empathize. But overall, I think you'd have to agree that there are some wonderful folks around here, and some oldtimers that can teach us newbies a thing or two.
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Abigail
Larry, I think you make some valid points here. There are many who have a deep aversion to TWI. There are a few who probably do not. The many can at times leave a person feeling unwelcomed.
But, there are also those who could care less what someone else thinks of TWI. And there are those with a deep aversion to TWI who you would have other things in common with. This place is huge, there are a LOT of people here.
And I'll walk out on a ledge a bit here and suggest that even many of those with a deep aversion for TWI, who at times seem to really intesensly dislike those who don't, would offer a hand of friendship to those who don't under the right circumstances - would feed them if that was the need, etc. etc.
This place can be very one dimensional at times. We see some angry words on a screen and we are left with the impression that that is the sum and substance of who the person is, when in fact it is not! That is why I am enjoying Dan's interview threads so much, it gives us an opportunity to add a few dimensions to the picture. :)
Lately, as I read some of the intenesely emotional posts that have come up around here, I keep thinking "a soft answer turneth away wrath." I am trying to practice this more and more, trying to simply say nothing if I can't give a soft answer. Maybe come back later and respond when I can.
But I know for others, giving that harsher answer is also a part of the process. It is a part of how we learn how to speak up for ourselves again, or maybe for the first time, after so many years of silence within TWI.
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anotherDan
Great insight, Abi.
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