Funny to think, Waysider, when you refer to running with the cows - that cow pasture was bought by a church, and we were strongly involved with that church until we moved out here and joined the church plant they started closer to our new home. Actually, it's kinda nice. The cows were the only ones that never bothered us hapless FLO's, they just jogged alongside to say hello. And that is a very nice church indeed, as far removed from FLO as the sun is from Pluto.
It was at the root beer saloon at ROA 76. I was missing around with some girl I met and she dropped some coins that rolled all over the place. a Kennedy half dollar rolled under the next table so I went after it. There were alot of people so I had to crawl through some ladies legs. I got my head through when she suddenly clamped them together on myu head. I looked up from between her legs. It was Mrs. Wierwille and she was sitting and chatting with Mrs. Owens. I was ushered outside by the two of them and received the spray job you've never seen.
After that when I went into the Corps a few years later both ladies remembered me from that night and always said hello to me whenever they saw me.
In fellowship today, I was reminded of how GODLY reproof is supposed to go. In II Cor. 2, Paul describes the anguish HE had in having to reprove the Corinthians. He chastened them (in I Cor., of course) not to grieve them, but to show his love for them.
Not exactly the way it went down in TWI.*
George
* Disclaimer: Yes, I know that there were very many good men and women who reproved out of love. But that wasn't the norm (at least not by ca. 1995).
As I was leaving i heard my name called... It was PL ... she wanted to speak to me. I said ' yes'... that's when she started... It doesn't surprise me that you were a part of THIS group. It doesn't surprise me one bit... blah blah blah blah... as she got louder and louder and louder... and started to publicly tell me about all inabilities and so forth. Then she started to say... You're not a FIREBALL!!!! That's your problem!... You haven't proven to me that you belong here... YOU"RE NOT A FIREBALL... YOU"RE NOT A FIREBALL... and she got louder and louder and now she's yelling at the top of her lungs... (with the worse breath ever I might add)..
I just stood there... thinking to myself... the only thing that ran through my head was (like a voice talking to me)... Me, do not listen ... do not listen to this person.. if you do... you will be destroyed... do not listen... (as in... don't take it in... don't accept it)
So I just stood there looking at her yelling and getting more and more out of control. When she stopped... I think she asked me if I had anything to say.. (i'm not sure)... anyhow.. I managed to squeek out these 3 words... What's a fireball??
I thought she was going to explode
This reminds me of a time when I went to a fellowship one horrible horrible night. My parents got us there early for once. Which made me very very happy! Because there was the nice sofa... or the hard metal chairs. Having to sit on one of those for over an hour is painful...
Anyways...
The fellowship coordinator's wife told me to move for an older gentleman. I was aggravated at first because I got there first and this was the first time in a while that I had a shot at sitting somewhere comfortable for once.
But I knew he would be worse off - his back was worse off than mine so I gave it up.
So yes I was upset that I had to sit in the metal chair for like... 5 minutes.
Then I got over it and sang and listened to the same damned thing being rehashed again... but I found it fascinating because I was told to find it fascinating at the time. I might learn something new. Yep.
After fellowship the coordinator's wife pulled me outside and started talking at me about how I was looking at her with hatred the whole time. It was news to me! Because I never even glared at the wench! I barely even looked at her!
She talked... and talked... and talked about WHAT I WAS THINKING. She apparently could read my mind and I've never had anything but loathing for her and my thoughts were of nothing but complete and total disrespect! O_o Huh?
The worst part was she periodically asked me questions... and while I opened my mouth to answer them she answered them for me. Something like: "Why do you always look at me like that?" A second pause for me to open my mouth - I wanted to tell her I wasn't glaring at her. "Because you hate me that's why!" O_O
I quickly realized this wasn't a discussion but a session in which she was going to complain at me at infinitum.
She went on so long that I wondered what mom was going to make for dinner... only because if I didn't tune her out it would have been even more upsetting.
Anyways - after she was done. I could tell she was done because her twisted lips stopped flapping. Then asked me: "What do you have to say for yourself?"
I waited - because this might have been a trap. I tried talking before and she stopped me. She asked again so I realized she was finished with her tirade for now.
So I asked: "What do you want me to say?" Because she had it all figured out anyway and I knew from past experiences that even if I did defend myself that she would flat out call me a liar. Because obviously I didn't know how I really felt on the inside!
OOoooh! She was so mad afterwards. It launched her into another tirade about how horrible I was and she was going to have a talk with my parents!
I think that was one of the few times my father ever told her to "calm the hell down."
That was one of my more interesting ones. I can think of countless others. I can sort of laugh and joke about it now - but at the time it was really upsetting. In other words, keep in mind my sarcasm and attitude are coming from my present self as I used to think this was normal. XP
I relate all too well, Nero. I, also, was close to perfecting the "absolute silence in the face of repeated questioning". That was so friggin' aggravating - they tirade forever and then ask me a question but never let me get more than one or two words out before staring the tirade all over again. Nothing I could say would be right anyway, so I just quit trying and then would get yelled at for not answering them.
And people wonder how I got so socially retarded.
It is good to be able to laugh about it now and it helps to see how very far we've come in that aspect of our recovery.
Before TWI was taken over by the Administration of the Face Melters, I had a reputation for saying what I thought, in fact, what everyone else usually thought but was afraid to say. In fact, I was something of a smartazz. During the Administration of the Face Melters, I got really quiet and fearful of letting anyone get close to me at all. My trust and heart were broken by all of this.
Before the AFM, people pretty much left me alone. They didn't want to risk having the truth box their ears.
Now, I'm happy to say I'm getting back to being myself, much to the shock of the small group I'm involved with at church. Oh, I'm nice about it, but when people say to the group, "we need to be real" they don't know what they're asking for!
:)
I think that was one purpose for face meltings: Silence the questioners, the dissenters, the reasoners.
the worst face melting I was ever subjected to was more of of a soul destroying brain washing session where my memories were replaced over the course of a few hours with a different version of events, until I was so confused and distraught I could no longer claim to know what had actually taken place that upset people so much that I was called into a special meeting with my then husband, tc's, and the RC's assistant n@n-c E via phone hookup who pronounced me a dangerous person with a brain full of holes. that meeting ultimately destroyed my sense of self so completely it took intensive therapy to recover and get the F out of dodge.
I've been reading alot of threads here and have some resentments I need to let go. I feel more apt to let them go knowing that these things did not just happen to me -- it happened to lots of people.
I found myself the other day saying something and realized I was being an abuser -- it was horrifying. I had to stop myself immediately.
The thing with people from TWI is they do it all in the "name" of love and care. That's where it gets confusing.
I remember being yelled at for not looking excited when I arrived at fellowship. Another time it was hinted that we had too many cats. They supposedly cost $1000 a year, each. Another time at an advanced class grad meeting we were yelled at for not washing our "f-ing" cars. Another time, when my 30 year-old car wouldn't start, I was yelled at for not getting it all checked out ahead of time.
you know, my car is an f-ing mess. I have 2 high energy kids and lots of dang to deal with, and my car is full of trash and it smells bad. I clean it out every couple of months. WHAT FREEDOM! THANK GOD! F U ALL YOU ANAL RETENTIVE PERSONALITY DISORDERED FREAKS WHO WASTED MY TIME OVER TRIVIALITIES LIKE DIRT IN MY CAR! WHO CARES ANYWAY!
it's my car. don't ride in it if you don't like it.
you know, my car is an f-ing mess. I have 2 high energy kids and lots of dang to deal with, and my car is full of trash and it smells bad. I clean it out every couple of months. WHAT FREEDOM! THANK GOD! F U ALL YOU ANAL RETENTIVE PERSONALITY DISORDERED FREAKS WHO WASTED MY TIME OVER TRIVIALITIES LIKE DIRT IN MY CAR! WHO CARES ANYWAY!
it's my car. don't ride in it if you don't like it.
Amen! I had people complain about my car before too - if they don't like the mess than they can take their own car!
And my house is messy too! <3 I love it! When I moved out with my husband those were the happiest times of my life because for once in my life I wasn't guilted about not vacuuming every single day. <3
Lol, I have said more than once that my messy house is a statement of rebellion after so many years of being so anal about stupid little details.
My poor husband who is a neat freak anyway, has moved his *space* out to the moble home where no kids can mess it up, where he can analy dust and vaccume and keep everything decent and in order. It is peacefull and quiet, and BOOOORING!!!
I tell him *the day that our house is perfectly clean, that everything is decent and in order, and nothing has been broken by a stray ball, or mis aimed pillow .... will be a sad and lonely day, because it will mean that our dear children have grown and gone*.
I intend to enjoy every minute with them in art classes and karate classes and theatre musicals, and horse back riding or just hunting cray fish in the creek. I would rather sit around a bon fire in the evening toasting marshmellows than obsessively wiping down the top of my fridge that nobody ever sees anyway...lol...
I spent way too many years worrying about the stupid stuff.
((((Potato))) O am so sorry that you had to endure that.
The few that I were subjected to were terrifying. *Soul crushing* was an appropriate way to describe it. I didn`t even do anything wrong....but was made to believe that I was the worst scum on the earth.
Like I said, the first one was so bad, that I almost drove myself off a bridge in order to rid the world of my horrible presence, and afraid that I would infect another believer with the evil that I was at a loss to explain how I had become....grrr
The second one frightened me so badly, that I never dared stir a toe without triple checking with leadership first.
How incredibly cruel, that these people would do this in the name of God...convincing us that God believed this of us :(
I remember the car and house comments. I was told I was not a good steward for God. I was also repremanded for keeping some clothes (that I liked alot) because I gained a few extra pounds but didn't want to get rid of them. I was told to not live above my NEED because then it's GREED. I kept the clothes - but it was just annoying.
I was also told to get rid of all my medication (for depression). I think that has caused alot of problems over the years.
And I love how they say "We're not telling you to do it, we're suggesting...." But then if you don't do it you get eye rolls and smug faces.....and if you do what they say then everyone jumps for joy. Barf. I feel sick now.
I totally hated that - and my parents still live by it. I dislike it when they visited my house because they would give me suggestions about how to keep it clean - like I care. XP Now I'm staying with them temporarily and it's easy to remember why I didn't like living with them in the first place. To my dad if you aren't cleaning everything everyday you are satanic. God I can't wait until I get my own house.
Actually... one of the reasons I like my husband so much is because he is just as messy as I am. Whenever I clean anything he thinks it's amazing. I love it! <3
I was also told to get rid of all my medication (for depression). I think that has caused alot of problems over the years.
And I love how they say "We're not telling you to do it, we're suggesting...." But then if you don't do it you get eye rolls and smug faces.....and if you do what they say then everyone jumps for joy. Barf. I feel sick now.
I was very worried about that with my husband. He is bi-polar and actually takes his meds. (Thank goodness!) My friend invited me back to twi a few months ago and I thought of accepting... but that really held me back. I remember people being talked out of their meds all the time. People with even worse mental illnesses! If they talked him out of his meds I probably would have died... he is such a different person off of them.
And I love how'd they say "We're not telling you to do it, we're suggesting...." But then if you don't do it you get eye rolls and smug faces.....and if you do what they say then everyone jumps for joy. Barf. I feel sick now.
OOOOOHHHH, yeah. Loved that little line. They would save that one for last, when they could tell you were not wanting to comply. And when you heard it, you knew they were drawing a line in the sand.
There was really never any question that they were ORDERING you to do "whatever"... (remember, the suggestion of a general is tantamount to an order)... and by bring up the "suggestion" line, you knew if you didn't give in you would be on their crap list from then on, getting picked at for every little thing until they broke you or drove you out. Yea, it was just a "suggestion" alright. (In the words of Ronald Weasley, "... my saggy left...")
((((Potato))) O am so sorry that you had to endure that.
The few that I were subjected to were terrifying. *Soul crushing* was an appropriate way to describe it. I didn`t even do anything wrong....but was made to believe that I was the worst scum on the earth.
Like I said, the first one was so bad, that I almost drove myself off a bridge in order to rid the world of my horrible presence, and afraid that I would infect another believer with the evil that I was at a loss to explain how I had become....grrr
The second one frightened me so badly, that I never dared stir a toe without triple checking with leadership first.
How incredibly cruel, that these people would do this in the name of God...convincing us that God believed this of us :(
rascal, someday I want to compare notes with you. the things you say make me wonder if we were in the same fellowships, even though I know this horrible stuff happened all over!
One time I was tired at fellowship but I stayed awake (like always). My fellowship coordinator came up to me and asked me nicely how I was doing - he was smiling. I told him I was fine. Then he asked me about how I felt tonight. I told him again I was fine. He said I looked bored during the meeting. I told him I wasn't - I was just sleepy. I believed this was a casual: "Hey how are you doing?" "Great! How you doing?" conversation so I tried to walk away after that so I could go talk to one of the other teens.
I can't remember at that point - but I believe I just took a step before I felt myself getting hauled back by the arm. I was a little surprised to find that the coordinator had a good grip on me. He still had that pleasant smile on his face when he jerked me close enough for him to whisper. "That's bs. That's bs. That's ....." I was so shocked I started to smile myself a little. It's like my brain couldn't wrap around him going from friendly to the devil in one second. So I tried to get my arm free and he just clamped down tighter. And then the smile went away from my end... although his was still in place while he told me I was a liar about wanting to be there.
I wanted to be there earlier.
After that I was just sick of it. I wanted to go to another fellowship.
This is going to be really, really vague unless Waysider reads it and can add some. It's about a group facemelt we underwent in Fellowlaborers of Ohio. This would've been our first year, in September or October 1975.
This was so terrifying I have basically blocked 90% of it from my mind. There was this guy who was some kind of a consultant by profession. I don't remember his name, except he lived in Columbus, and had a pretty blond wife who sold Shaklee or Amway or something. He was short and blocky. We met at a hotel meeting room and it was an all day meeting for FLO only. I may have been in a skit or something. I remember what I wore that day, but I don't remember much else except the horror.
This guy was there to do some kind of reverse motivational training of some kind on the FLO's. I remember he selected a few souls, stood them up in front of the 50 or so of us, and literally got an inch from their faces, screaming at the top of his lungs all kinds of obscenities, accusations, threats, curses. It was the foulest, vilest attack I had heard in my life. One of the victims was the future Mr. Garden. I don't think LCM could have done it any better. I thought this guy was going to physically torture them and maybe he did tie their hands or something. I was literally about to soil myself with fear.
We broke for lunch. I told RA our FLO coordinator I was going home and not going back in. He enforced my attendance, telling how important that was and what a great learning experience it would be and how thankful I should be and unfortunately he won. Of course, him being a coordinator, no one stood HIM up in the front of the room and screeched at him. Now of course during the screamfests the screechee couldn't make a sound, had to stand there and eat .... and love every minute of it.
I don't think a one of us ever understood the greatness of this seminar. There was no godly love in it, no learning of Biblical truths, just an opportunity for a fat jerk to scream at one of the finest men, no make that THE finest man I've ever known. This guy, whose face I see clearly in my mind's eye, but whose name I can't recall, made Parris Island look like King Island.
Afterward, none of us could look in each other's eyes. We silently filed out to our cars and drove back to Delaware. I eventually sought out Mr. Garden, who was quiet but seemed all right.
It was a spirit busting seminar. It broke a lot of people just to watch.
I don't know if this was a version of something they did in the WC or what. I heard rumors of a chosen few being taken to a camp in California and treated as if they were POW's. This was a psychological assault as bad or worse than anything anyone endured under the administration of the face melters and it went down in front of a whole group. I don't think any one person dared raise an eyebrow as their friends and roommates were verbally and mentally and emotionally rapedin front of all of us.
Do any of your earlier WC remember anything like this being standard operating procedure as part of your training? Do any of you remember hearing about that POW training experience in california that LCM was supposedly the only one who "survived," figuratively speaking?
This was one of those gut wreching moments I have occasionally (See "Secrets of the Vine" on the open forum) that tell me loud and clear: THIS IS NOT OF GOD! GET THE H311 OUT OF HERE! I did stay in FLO for two years, but it wasn't all bad; I married Mr. Garden and we have been married for 30 years!
If you are "in" or "out, aka free" listen to your gut and your heart. You encounter a situation like this or any of the others described on this thread......RUN LIKE THE VERY DEVIL WAS ON YOUR HEELS, BECAUSE HE PROBABLY IS!
PS: Mr. Garden has blocked this and doesn't remember anything at all, including the description of the guy. And he is very, very stable mentally and emotionally, so I think it was pretty awful for him, too.
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Watered Garden
Funny to think, Waysider, when you refer to running with the cows - that cow pasture was bought by a church, and we were strongly involved with that church until we moved out here and joined the church plant they started closer to our new home. Actually, it's kinda nice. The cows were the only ones that never bothered us hapless FLO's, they just jogged alongside to say hello. And that is a very nice church indeed, as far removed from FLO as the sun is from Pluto.
WG
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Out There
It was at the root beer saloon at ROA 76. I was missing around with some girl I met and she dropped some coins that rolled all over the place. a Kennedy half dollar rolled under the next table so I went after it. There were alot of people so I had to crawl through some ladies legs. I got my head through when she suddenly clamped them together on myu head. I looked up from between her legs. It was Mrs. Wierwille and she was sitting and chatting with Mrs. Owens. I was ushered outside by the two of them and received the spray job you've never seen.
After that when I went into the Corps a few years later both ladies remembered me from that night and always said hello to me whenever they saw me.
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GeorgeStGeorge
In fellowship today, I was reminded of how GODLY reproof is supposed to go. In II Cor. 2, Paul describes the anguish HE had in having to reprove the Corinthians. He chastened them (in I Cor., of course) not to grieve them, but to show his love for them.
Not exactly the way it went down in TWI.*
George
* Disclaimer: Yes, I know that there were very many good men and women who reproved out of love. But that wasn't the norm (at least not by ca. 1995).
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likeaneagle
I never had a face melting till 99......good lord, you missed fellowship because you had a Upper Respitory Infection...geesh
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excathedra
face meltings
so many stories
so little time
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Tom Strange
It's easily explained my little friend from Canadia... when they look in the mirror, they don't see any reflection!
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A la prochaine
Ahhhh... of course... ME FORGOTS!!!!
Strangeone.. sooooo nice to see you again!!!
you have been missed...
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Nero
This reminds me of a time when I went to a fellowship one horrible horrible night. My parents got us there early for once. Which made me very very happy! Because there was the nice sofa... or the hard metal chairs. Having to sit on one of those for over an hour is painful...
Anyways...
The fellowship coordinator's wife told me to move for an older gentleman. I was aggravated at first because I got there first and this was the first time in a while that I had a shot at sitting somewhere comfortable for once.
But I knew he would be worse off - his back was worse off than mine so I gave it up.
So yes I was upset that I had to sit in the metal chair for like... 5 minutes.
Then I got over it and sang and listened to the same damned thing being rehashed again... but I found it fascinating because I was told to find it fascinating at the time. I might learn something new. Yep.
After fellowship the coordinator's wife pulled me outside and started talking at me about how I was looking at her with hatred the whole time. It was news to me! Because I never even glared at the wench! I barely even looked at her!
She talked... and talked... and talked about WHAT I WAS THINKING. She apparently could read my mind and I've never had anything but loathing for her and my thoughts were of nothing but complete and total disrespect! O_o Huh?
The worst part was she periodically asked me questions... and while I opened my mouth to answer them she answered them for me. Something like: "Why do you always look at me like that?" A second pause for me to open my mouth - I wanted to tell her I wasn't glaring at her. "Because you hate me that's why!" O_O
I quickly realized this wasn't a discussion but a session in which she was going to complain at me at infinitum.
She went on so long that I wondered what mom was going to make for dinner... only because if I didn't tune her out it would have been even more upsetting.
Anyways - after she was done. I could tell she was done because her twisted lips stopped flapping. Then asked me: "What do you have to say for yourself?"
I waited - because this might have been a trap. I tried talking before and she stopped me. She asked again so I realized she was finished with her tirade for now.
So I asked: "What do you want me to say?" Because she had it all figured out anyway and I knew from past experiences that even if I did defend myself that she would flat out call me a liar. Because obviously I didn't know how I really felt on the inside!
OOoooh! She was so mad afterwards. It launched her into another tirade about how horrible I was and she was going to have a talk with my parents!
I think that was one of the few times my father ever told her to "calm the hell down."
That was one of my more interesting ones. I can think of countless others. I can sort of laugh and joke about it now - but at the time it was really upsetting. In other words, keep in mind my sarcasm and attitude are coming from my present self as I used to think this was normal. XP
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Belle
Yeah, not so funny at the time, was it?
I relate all too well, Nero. I, also, was close to perfecting the "absolute silence in the face of repeated questioning". That was so friggin' aggravating - they tirade forever and then ask me a question but never let me get more than one or two words out before staring the tirade all over again. Nothing I could say would be right anyway, so I just quit trying and then would get yelled at for not answering them.
And people wonder how I got so socially retarded.
It is good to be able to laugh about it now and it helps to see how very far we've come in that aspect of our recovery.
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Watered Garden
Ya know,
Before TWI was taken over by the Administration of the Face Melters, I had a reputation for saying what I thought, in fact, what everyone else usually thought but was afraid to say. In fact, I was something of a smartazz. During the Administration of the Face Melters, I got really quiet and fearful of letting anyone get close to me at all. My trust and heart were broken by all of this.
Before the AFM, people pretty much left me alone. They didn't want to risk having the truth box their ears.
Now, I'm happy to say I'm getting back to being myself, much to the shock of the small group I'm involved with at church. Oh, I'm nice about it, but when people say to the group, "we need to be real" they don't know what they're asking for!
:)
I think that was one purpose for face meltings: Silence the questioners, the dissenters, the reasoners.
WG
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potato
the worst face melting I was ever subjected to was more of of a soul destroying brain washing session where my memories were replaced over the course of a few hours with a different version of events, until I was so confused and distraught I could no longer claim to know what had actually taken place that upset people so much that I was called into a special meeting with my then husband, tc's, and the RC's assistant n@n-c E via phone hookup who pronounced me a dangerous person with a brain full of holes. that meeting ultimately destroyed my sense of self so completely it took intensive therapy to recover and get the F out of dodge.
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Outfield
Wow Potato.
I've been reading alot of threads here and have some resentments I need to let go. I feel more apt to let them go knowing that these things did not just happen to me -- it happened to lots of people.
I found myself the other day saying something and realized I was being an abuser -- it was horrifying. I had to stop myself immediately.
The thing with people from TWI is they do it all in the "name" of love and care. That's where it gets confusing.
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outintexas
I remember being yelled at for not looking excited when I arrived at fellowship. Another time it was hinted that we had too many cats. They supposedly cost $1000 a year, each. Another time at an advanced class grad meeting we were yelled at for not washing our "f-ing" cars. Another time, when my 30 year-old car wouldn't start, I was yelled at for not getting it all checked out ahead of time.
TWI was never about helping people.
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potato
you know, my car is an f-ing mess. I have 2 high energy kids and lots of dang to deal with, and my car is full of trash and it smells bad. I clean it out every couple of months. WHAT FREEDOM! THANK GOD! F U ALL YOU ANAL RETENTIVE PERSONALITY DISORDERED FREAKS WHO WASTED MY TIME OVER TRIVIALITIES LIKE DIRT IN MY CAR! WHO CARES ANYWAY!
it's my car. don't ride in it if you don't like it.
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Nero
Amen! I had people complain about my car before too - if they don't like the mess than they can take their own car!
And my house is messy too! <3 I love it! When I moved out with my husband those were the happiest times of my life because for once in my life I wasn't guilted about not vacuuming every single day. <3
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rascal
Lol, I have said more than once that my messy house is a statement of rebellion after so many years of being so anal about stupid little details.
My poor husband who is a neat freak anyway, has moved his *space* out to the moble home where no kids can mess it up, where he can analy dust and vaccume and keep everything decent and in order. It is peacefull and quiet, and BOOOORING!!!
I tell him *the day that our house is perfectly clean, that everything is decent and in order, and nothing has been broken by a stray ball, or mis aimed pillow .... will be a sad and lonely day, because it will mean that our dear children have grown and gone*.
I intend to enjoy every minute with them in art classes and karate classes and theatre musicals, and horse back riding or just hunting cray fish in the creek. I would rather sit around a bon fire in the evening toasting marshmellows than obsessively wiping down the top of my fridge that nobody ever sees anyway...lol...
I spent way too many years worrying about the stupid stuff.
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rascal
((((Potato))) O am so sorry that you had to endure that.
The few that I were subjected to were terrifying. *Soul crushing* was an appropriate way to describe it. I didn`t even do anything wrong....but was made to believe that I was the worst scum on the earth.
Like I said, the first one was so bad, that I almost drove myself off a bridge in order to rid the world of my horrible presence, and afraid that I would infect another believer with the evil that I was at a loss to explain how I had become....grrr
The second one frightened me so badly, that I never dared stir a toe without triple checking with leadership first.
How incredibly cruel, that these people would do this in the name of God...convincing us that God believed this of us :(
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Outfield
I remember the car and house comments. I was told I was not a good steward for God. I was also repremanded for keeping some clothes (that I liked alot) because I gained a few extra pounds but didn't want to get rid of them. I was told to not live above my NEED because then it's GREED. I kept the clothes - but it was just annoying.
I was also told to get rid of all my medication (for depression). I think that has caused alot of problems over the years.
And I love how they say "We're not telling you to do it, we're suggesting...." But then if you don't do it you get eye rolls and smug faces.....and if you do what they say then everyone jumps for joy. Barf. I feel sick now.
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ex70sHouston
No one ever complained if my pickup was dirty. Just so long as I showed up to help every believer thet ever lived move.
My plans didn't mater. Just help them move. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
I later (after I was out) learned to say no.
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Nero
I totally hated that - and my parents still live by it. I dislike it when they visited my house because they would give me suggestions about how to keep it clean - like I care. XP Now I'm staying with them temporarily and it's easy to remember why I didn't like living with them in the first place. To my dad if you aren't cleaning everything everyday you are satanic. God I can't wait until I get my own house.
Actually... one of the reasons I like my husband so much is because he is just as messy as I am. Whenever I clean anything he thinks it's amazing. I love it! <3
I was very worried about that with my husband. He is bi-polar and actually takes his meds. (Thank goodness!) My friend invited me back to twi a few months ago and I thought of accepting... but that really held me back. I remember people being talked out of their meds all the time. People with even worse mental illnesses! If they talked him out of his meds I probably would have died... he is such a different person off of them.
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TheHighWay
OOOOOHHHH, yeah. Loved that little line. They would save that one for last, when they could tell you were not wanting to comply. And when you heard it, you knew they were drawing a line in the sand.
There was really never any question that they were ORDERING you to do "whatever"... (remember, the suggestion of a general is tantamount to an order)... and by bring up the "suggestion" line, you knew if you didn't give in you would be on their crap list from then on, getting picked at for every little thing until they broke you or drove you out. Yea, it was just a "suggestion" alright. (In the words of Ronald Weasley, "... my saggy left...")
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potato
rascal, someday I want to compare notes with you. the things you say make me wonder if we were in the same fellowships, even though I know this horrible stuff happened all over!
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Nero
Oh! I remember another one!
One time I was tired at fellowship but I stayed awake (like always). My fellowship coordinator came up to me and asked me nicely how I was doing - he was smiling. I told him I was fine. Then he asked me about how I felt tonight. I told him again I was fine. He said I looked bored during the meeting. I told him I wasn't - I was just sleepy. I believed this was a casual: "Hey how are you doing?" "Great! How you doing?" conversation so I tried to walk away after that so I could go talk to one of the other teens.
I can't remember at that point - but I believe I just took a step before I felt myself getting hauled back by the arm. I was a little surprised to find that the coordinator had a good grip on me. He still had that pleasant smile on his face when he jerked me close enough for him to whisper. "That's bs. That's bs. That's ....." I was so shocked I started to smile myself a little. It's like my brain couldn't wrap around him going from friendly to the devil in one second. So I tried to get my arm free and he just clamped down tighter. And then the smile went away from my end... although his was still in place while he told me I was a liar about wanting to be there.
I wanted to be there earlier.
After that I was just sick of it. I wanted to go to another fellowship.
When I should have just wanted to get out period.
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Watered Garden
This is going to be really, really vague unless Waysider reads it and can add some. It's about a group facemelt we underwent in Fellowlaborers of Ohio. This would've been our first year, in September or October 1975.
This was so terrifying I have basically blocked 90% of it from my mind. There was this guy who was some kind of a consultant by profession. I don't remember his name, except he lived in Columbus, and had a pretty blond wife who sold Shaklee or Amway or something. He was short and blocky. We met at a hotel meeting room and it was an all day meeting for FLO only. I may have been in a skit or something. I remember what I wore that day, but I don't remember much else except the horror.
This guy was there to do some kind of reverse motivational training of some kind on the FLO's. I remember he selected a few souls, stood them up in front of the 50 or so of us, and literally got an inch from their faces, screaming at the top of his lungs all kinds of obscenities, accusations, threats, curses. It was the foulest, vilest attack I had heard in my life. One of the victims was the future Mr. Garden. I don't think LCM could have done it any better. I thought this guy was going to physically torture them and maybe he did tie their hands or something. I was literally about to soil myself with fear.
We broke for lunch. I told RA our FLO coordinator I was going home and not going back in. He enforced my attendance, telling how important that was and what a great learning experience it would be and how thankful I should be and unfortunately he won. Of course, him being a coordinator, no one stood HIM up in the front of the room and screeched at him. Now of course during the screamfests the screechee couldn't make a sound, had to stand there and eat .... and love every minute of it.
I don't think a one of us ever understood the greatness of this seminar. There was no godly love in it, no learning of Biblical truths, just an opportunity for a fat jerk to scream at one of the finest men, no make that THE finest man I've ever known. This guy, whose face I see clearly in my mind's eye, but whose name I can't recall, made Parris Island look like King Island.
Afterward, none of us could look in each other's eyes. We silently filed out to our cars and drove back to Delaware. I eventually sought out Mr. Garden, who was quiet but seemed all right.
It was a spirit busting seminar. It broke a lot of people just to watch.
I don't know if this was a version of something they did in the WC or what. I heard rumors of a chosen few being taken to a camp in California and treated as if they were POW's. This was a psychological assault as bad or worse than anything anyone endured under the administration of the face melters and it went down in front of a whole group. I don't think any one person dared raise an eyebrow as their friends and roommates were verbally and mentally and emotionally rapedin front of all of us.
Do any of your earlier WC remember anything like this being standard operating procedure as part of your training? Do any of you remember hearing about that POW training experience in california that LCM was supposedly the only one who "survived," figuratively speaking?
This was one of those gut wreching moments I have occasionally (See "Secrets of the Vine" on the open forum) that tell me loud and clear: THIS IS NOT OF GOD! GET THE H311 OUT OF HERE! I did stay in FLO for two years, but it wasn't all bad; I married Mr. Garden and we have been married for 30 years!
If you are "in" or "out, aka free" listen to your gut and your heart. You encounter a situation like this or any of the others described on this thread......RUN LIKE THE VERY DEVIL WAS ON YOUR HEELS, BECAUSE HE PROBABLY IS!
PS: Mr. Garden has blocked this and doesn't remember anything at all, including the description of the guy. And he is very, very stable mentally and emotionally, so I think it was pretty awful for him, too.
WG
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