The use of the word "possessed" can be a deal-breaker. We have to be careful with that term, IMO. If I recall, "possesed with a devil" is daimonizomai, which would probably be better translated "demonized." The question, then, would be, can a believer be demonized?
"Possessed" implies "owned and operated." I would answer "no" in that case. The believer is "owned" by God, but he may be "operated" by a demon, or evil spirit. Without getting into "believers" in the NT, which would be a good way to approach this, let's just take LCM's indiscretion for an example. I believe that it's consistent with the metaphysics of the Word to say that he was "not himself." A spirit of error or a foul spirit can be found among God's people. Also, a "spirit of slumber." Others are bold enough to name other forces "spirits" that are not found in the NT, such as "rage," "lack-of-empathy," etc. Whenever a person is "not himself," who is he? His soul is subdued by "someone" else.
As far as the possibility of regaining control, the Word says "Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." This can be understood in a less broad sense to resist the devil by resisting his daimon and daimonion. But we sometimes need help, since the whole concept of being influenced or controlled by an evil spirit has to do with the will.
I'm not offering this as doctrine. I'm no doctrinal authority. Just some thoughts. I would welcome others'.
I was just at a conference where this was brought up. She said we can argue until the cows come home. She said, when she prays if it is in, on or an influence she prays it out, away and broken....
I don't believe once you are born again, you can get ''possessed'' by spirits.
Is there a scripture reference for one person loaded AFTER they were born again?
The ones Jesus healed believed after they were healed if I remember correctly.
Definately we can be influenced by spirits, and even quench the spirit inside while we let the lusts of our flesh and our sinful selves take over. Hence Jesus and Pauls admonitions throughout scripture.
But, to me, God's spirit and a devil spirit could not reside in the same location.
We all sin, and fall short, some more than others....... ........but, the records of ''possessed'' people were obvious and always WAY OUT OF CONTROL. I mean, ''lunatic'' comes to mind.
I don't think LCM was possessed. (mind you, he did ACT like a lunatic at times....) But, I believe he was in full control of his mental and physical capacities. He certainly wasn't Christ focused and didn't surrender his lusts and desires to Him. (plus a lot of wrong teaching....)
Therefore, sin prevailed.
next, LCM used to teach that you can trace the ''seed of the serpent'' from Genesis on..........
well that's BS!
If GOD Almighty didn't have ''seed'' available until the day of Pentecost, then how can the devil have it since the beginning of creation?
I don't believe once you are born again, you can get ''possessed'' by spirits.
Is there a scripture reference for one person loaded AFTER they were born again?
The ones Jesus healed believed after they were healed if I remember correctly.
Definately we can be influenced by spirits, and even quench the spirit inside while we let the lusts of our flesh and our sinful selves take over. Hence Jesus and Pauls admonitions throughout scripture.
But, to me, God's spirit and a devil spirit could not reside in the same location.
We all sin, and fall short, some more than others....... ........but, the records of ''possessed'' people were obvious and always WAY OUT OF CONTROL. I mean, ''lunatic'' comes to mind.
I don't think LCM was possessed. (mind you, he did ACT like a lunatic at times....) But, I believe he was in full control of his mental and physical capacities. He certainly wasn't Christ focused and didn't surrender his lusts and desires to Him. (plus a lot of wrong teaching....)
Therefore, sin prevailed.
next, LCM used to teach that you can trace the ''seed of the serpent'' from Genesis on..........
well that's BS!
If GOD Almighty didn't have ''seed'' available until the day of Pentecost, then how can the devil have it since the beginning of creation?
just my 2cents
True,
A born-again Christian can be influenced by devil spirits but not possessed. There is a major difference.
I was just at a conference where this was brought up. She said we can argue until the cows come home. She said, when she prays if it is in, on or an influence she prays it out, away and broken....
I do not know.
I think they can be. An opinion
I've heard/read arguments on both sides of this question. I like what your conference speaker said, I'm with her, whether it's in, on, influencing, demonizing, possesing, controlling, or anything else, I just want it gone!
I believe Christian's can be possessed but it's only when they are off on their walk with God. Like they are getting drunk, doing drugs, etc.
Spirits come and go as they please and they always have to have a host. I've heard stories of spiritual possession and the person said, "It was like they were standing back hearing their voice."
Esp. the alcoholic spirit -- Leviathon - who can drink up the sea. That's why some people can have 2 drinks and be fine others drink a 12 pack and still act completely normal.
In Matthew it talks about what is believed to be an alcoholic spirit. How each time it progressively gets worse because the old spirit brings with it 7 other spirits more wicked than it.
Holy Spirit from God is seed but I still believe you can be or become possessed when you open a trap door. There are or is even a devil spirit named Jesus.
There are so many spirits -- how many Christians have committed suicide? (debil spirit) Are alcoholics? (debil spirit). Murdered? (debil spirit).
The adversary's main goal is to get you to worship him no matter in what form, as long as you are not being loyal to the true God. But seed is seed. I can denounce my father and claim someone else is my father -- but DNA will always prove I am my father's.
I definitely believe it is possible for a Christan to become possessed! I have experienced Christan's operating devil spirits first hand and many of the leadership in TWI no doubt were allowing their operation!
Yes, the Christian belongs to God after the new birth. His or her freewill status has not changed; nor has the influences of the devil spirit realm. they are allowed to operate anyone who allows them access!
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anotherDan
I do have some thoughts for your consideration.
The use of the word "possessed" can be a deal-breaker. We have to be careful with that term, IMO. If I recall, "possesed with a devil" is daimonizomai, which would probably be better translated "demonized." The question, then, would be, can a believer be demonized?
"Possessed" implies "owned and operated." I would answer "no" in that case. The believer is "owned" by God, but he may be "operated" by a demon, or evil spirit. Without getting into "believers" in the NT, which would be a good way to approach this, let's just take LCM's indiscretion for an example. I believe that it's consistent with the metaphysics of the Word to say that he was "not himself." A spirit of error or a foul spirit can be found among God's people. Also, a "spirit of slumber." Others are bold enough to name other forces "spirits" that are not found in the NT, such as "rage," "lack-of-empathy," etc. Whenever a person is "not himself," who is he? His soul is subdued by "someone" else.
As far as the possibility of regaining control, the Word says "Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." This can be understood in a less broad sense to resist the devil by resisting his daimon and daimonion. But we sometimes need help, since the whole concept of being influenced or controlled by an evil spirit has to do with the will.
I'm not offering this as doctrine. I'm no doctrinal authority. Just some thoughts. I would welcome others'.
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Dot Matrix
I was just at a conference where this was brought up. She said we can argue until the cows come home. She said, when she prays if it is in, on or an influence she prays it out, away and broken....
I do not know.
I think they can be. An opinion
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bliss
I have thought about this for a while.
I don't believe once you are born again, you can get ''possessed'' by spirits.
Is there a scripture reference for one person loaded AFTER they were born again?
The ones Jesus healed believed after they were healed if I remember correctly.
Definately we can be influenced by spirits, and even quench the spirit inside while we let the lusts of our flesh and our sinful selves take over. Hence Jesus and Pauls admonitions throughout scripture.
But, to me, God's spirit and a devil spirit could not reside in the same location.
We all sin, and fall short, some more than others.......
........but, the records of ''possessed'' people were obvious and always WAY OUT OF CONTROL. I mean, ''lunatic'' comes to mind.
I don't think LCM was possessed. (mind you, he did ACT like a lunatic at times....) But, I believe he was in full control of his mental and physical capacities. He certainly wasn't Christ focused and didn't surrender his lusts and desires to Him. (plus a lot of wrong teaching....)
Therefore, sin prevailed.
next, LCM used to teach that you can trace the ''seed of the serpent'' from Genesis on..........
well that's BS!
If GOD Almighty didn't have ''seed'' available until the day of Pentecost, then how can the devil have it since the beginning of creation?
just my 2cents
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Eagle
True,
A born-again Christian can be influenced by devil spirits but not possessed. There is a major difference.
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Suda
Eagle,
Not doubting what you say. Could you give me some scripture references please? It's something I will be studying real soon.
Thanks!
Suda
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wrdsandwrks
I've heard/read arguments on both sides of this question. I like what your conference speaker said, I'm with her, whether it's in, on, influencing, demonizing, possesing, controlling, or anything else, I just want it gone!
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Outfield
I believe Christian's can be possessed but it's only when they are off on their walk with God. Like they are getting drunk, doing drugs, etc.
Spirits come and go as they please and they always have to have a host. I've heard stories of spiritual possession and the person said, "It was like they were standing back hearing their voice."
Esp. the alcoholic spirit -- Leviathon - who can drink up the sea. That's why some people can have 2 drinks and be fine others drink a 12 pack and still act completely normal.
In Matthew it talks about what is believed to be an alcoholic spirit. How each time it progressively gets worse because the old spirit brings with it 7 other spirits more wicked than it.
Holy Spirit from God is seed but I still believe you can be or become possessed when you open a trap door. There are or is even a devil spirit named Jesus.
There are so many spirits -- how many Christians have committed suicide? (debil spirit) Are alcoholics? (debil spirit). Murdered? (debil spirit).
The adversary's main goal is to get you to worship him no matter in what form, as long as you are not being loyal to the true God. But seed is seed. I can denounce my father and claim someone else is my father -- but DNA will always prove I am my father's.
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anotherDan
It's a fairly important question, I would say. If we are unaware of forces that drive us, that would be quite a pity, wouldn't it.
If we are aware of them but don't know what to do about it, again, not much help.
Wrds and Dot, good stuff! Thanks
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RainbowsGirl
I definitely believe it is possible for a Christan to become possessed! I have experienced Christan's operating devil spirits first hand and many of the leadership in TWI no doubt were allowing their operation!
Yes, the Christian belongs to God after the new birth. His or her freewill status has not changed; nor has the influences of the devil spirit realm. they are allowed to operate anyone who allows them access!
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waysider
Well, here is what Dr. W. said about it in The Advanced Class on Power For Abundant Living.(pg.19)
" All life is spirit, but not all spirit is eternal life spirit."
"Any spirit to be manifested, shown forth, must be in a body."
" A born-again believer may become afflicted with evil spirits. The spirits may affect or possess mind and/or body, but not the spirit."
Scripture references given were Luke 3:16, Romans 4:3,11,16/9:6-8.
Whew!!! Glad you didn't ask for my opinion on how much credibility he had!!
edited to add a word( Oh my Gosh, Isn't that the one of the steps that the devil used to deceive Eve?!!!)
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