Animal fighting is indeed cultural. I cannot make a direct comment on most of your post since I consider "black" to be a race not a culture. You can find east Indians who are black, Hmong highlanders who are black. I make a distinction between race and culture.
That being said so I (hopefully) don't come across as racist; you will find animal fighting in cultures all over the world. In most of east Asia there is dog-fighting, cock-fighting, lizard-fighting and even bear and boar-fighting. Cock-fighting and boar-fighting is common in many South American countries...and...in some countries you can still see humans playing Russian roulette as a betting sport.
I find it as repulsive as you but nonetheless it does exist as a "cultural event" in many parts of the world.
In the wake of mike vick. I hate to even say it's name. The NAACP and other blacks are coming out saying we (whites?) don't understand. Dog fighting is a part of their community.
God it makes me so sick I want to throw up now.
Where is Jesse and Al Sharpton on this one?
Torturing animals is okay if your from the ghetto?
Someone enlighten me before I kill myself.
btw I KNOW that's not true. why isn't anyone making a HUGE ruckus on this one?
Well if Vick was a REAL man, he would come out to the public (including his own communities) and state that he made a very grave horrendous mistake and that this kind of cruelty to animals should stop. It takes a small mind to enjoy watching and betting money so animals can kill each other outside of the normal circle of life.
The Atlanta NAACP President made a comment along the lines of why all the uproar over dog fights and not deer hunting? It is a cultural thing. But I can't find the quote reported by any news source.
The National NAACP has condemned the dog fighting but want Vick rehabilitated and returned to the NFAL. After all he made a "mistake". Killing one animal might be a mistake, but I hear he killed around 8 none preformers. Mistake my ( * )
Vick initially denied knowledge and involvement in the dog fighting ring so it's abvious he had prior knowledge that what he was doing was illegal. He kept the innocent charade up until his buddies started talking and getting serious jail time anyway. I think that is more telling of his true character than anything the NAACP can say about dog fighting being a cultural thang.
I'm not a big Falcons fan but from what I've seen of football games and the sport news it looks to me like Vick was overpaid overhyped and overcoddled. In other words he never lived up to his salary or his place as a team leader.
That observation aside I would imagine a comeback might not be in Vicks best interest, I hear there are more than a few animal loving linebackers that would love to get their hands on his arse, just to show his how much fun it is being torn up n beat down.
If I was black and that statement was pinned on me by the NAACP, I would be outraged! The statement is stereotyping black people and black culture - it's an ignorant, offensive, and negative thing to say!
You can liken it to cockfighting, bullfighting, fox hunting - you name it.
Just because it was done in the past - that doesn't make it right today.
It needs to stop. All of it.
(But Chas is old enough to know it won't - but maybe this Vick case will shed some light on things...)
My post followed yours so it looked like I was responding to you.
I really wasn't.
The Census Bureau breaks the demographic down into black, white, and other.
The Hmong Highlanders and East Indians that you mentioned, are considered other.(As far as I know.)
"Race" is really not a scientific reality so much as a way of social sciences and medical sciences having some sort of way to catalog information. It serves a purpose.
While it is true that some groups are more prone to things like high blood pressure, sickle cell anemia, skin cancers, and so on, at the basic DNA level, all humans, regardless of race, are basically the same.
Animal fighting is, indeed, associated with various cultures and the moral perceptions of what they(The cultures as a whole) find acceptable. I don't personally see that as being the case with Vick.
In my opinion, he is using the cultural explanation to rationalize and justify a behavior he knew was illegal and at cross odds with what the larger culture of American citizens find unacceptable.
I think that's what some people used to call "weaseling his way out".
This cultural thing begs the question - just because it's cultural does it make it acceptable?
I wrote a paper about this very thing - what if you don't prefer a certain cultural quality -- does that make you a bigot against that culture...I don't think so...
deeper - how do we impose laws -- "no dog abuse - let alone fighting" or any other cultural event that has a law imposed against it -- how can we enforce it
That culture thing came out in one of our VET magazines about him.
The vet here said, the white rednecks used to fight dogs way more often than the blacks did. If anything it is a "white culture" thing. However, since it became illegal, less whites have done it.
Oh and when is the last time someone hung a deer?
Animal torture is more like profiling a serial killer -- than making it a black thing.
I think BLACKS everywhere should be outraged. I wish Oprah would speak out!!!
BTW
There is a neighborhood here in Atlanta where Mexicans were slaughtering goats on their front yard to cook at a BBQ they were having.
(But Chas is old enough to know it won't - but maybe this Vick case will shed some light on things...)
I don't think there's any "maybe" to it.
Widespread awareness will make many (but not all) people give it thought, and hopefully many will realize how horrible this "cultural" issue is.
Indeed, just because slavery was culturally acceptible at one time doesn't mean it wasn't cruel. And when enough people (other than the white land/plantation owners who benefitted from it) became aware of it, abolition of the practice was inevitable even if it still took a great deal of time and anguish to see it actually happen.
Writing letters to editors of your local newspapers is also an excellent way to continue to raise awareness and outrage.
Several of the posts on this thread are structured as questions. Rhetorical questions.
I strongly recommend that folks who articulated those posts write concise (editors often favor pithy letters at or less than 200 words long) letters on this subject and get them (by email) to those editors of your local news publications.
I've seen it work MANY times... and have had many letters of my own published. The most effective letters get readers to come up with the answer(s) on their own. One of the best ways to do that is by posing very pointed rhetorical questions... questions for which there can only be one serious answer... and the reader then thinks he/she came up with the answer on their own.
The statement is stereotyping black people and black culture - it's an ignorant, offensive, and negative thing to say!
Imagine the out rage that would have followed if any one other than the head of the Atlanta NAACP had said this.
It is equal to saying drugs, gangs and criminal gambling are all black cultural things.
Dog fighting is illegal in all North American countries and some states make even attending one a felony. Deer hunting is legal and the comparison is ridiculous! That NCAAP leader made one of the most racist statements I have heard in a long time, white man would be walking down the street kicking stones talking to himself with his last pay check in hand for saying less....
For those who are REALLY concerned (and I have no doubt that you are),
Take your arguements to Pamplona, Spain in July, and tell them to a Matador.
Or -- go to a WWF match and voice the same thing.
In no way do I condone the violence exhibited -- man or beast.
Where there's a market -- there's a product.
Getting rid of the *market* will initiate the demise of the *product*.
I'll say -- Good luck in doing so. (Honestly -- I do).
...and that's what I mean when I say I'm old enough to know this all isn't going to go away...
One other thing...
Big Dogs clothing is coming out with a t-shirt showing their Big Dog mascot spanking Vick. Of course you can send it to a friend - or you can BUY it... Yup, someone has figgered out how to make $$$ off this - and that's upsetting to me with ANY crime... It's just WRONG. Period.
"Race" is really not a scientific reality so much as a way of social sciences and medical sciences having some sort of way to catalog information
Sorry Waysider, that is incorrect. Race is a scientific reality and there are consistent differences between races in humans and ofher creatures as well.
We just need to be careful how we use the words and use the right ones. I don't care what or who you are, but if you want to fight pit bulls and train them to hurt each other so you can make money on your bets, you really don't belong in the same society I chose to live in, and we have laws, and if you break them, you pay the price.
This cultural thing begs the question - just because it's cultural does it make it acceptable?
I wrote a paper about this very thing - what if you don't prefer a certain cultural quality -- does that make you a bigot against that culture...I don't think so...
deeper - how do we impose laws -- "no dog abuse - let alone fighting" or any other cultural event that has a law imposed against it -- how can we enforce it
Sounds interesting WW, is that paper online? ... in the age of imported "diversity", it is likely we will confront this issue many times.
Many cultures (outside the US) seem to have less respect for laws ... some are raised more with the law of the jungle, and in Africa that is quite literal perhaps. I know agriculture has a real concern about bird diseases getting into the chicken industry from Mexcian fighting cocks smuggled across the border.
It seems our society is rather genteel generally ... hopefully some American traditions will not be diversified away in the name of maintaining endangered cultural traditions.
In most states, it is against the law to even attend a dog fighting event
, regardless of direct participation. According to authorities, dog fighting is increasingly practiced by gangs, and is linked to other unlawful activities, such as gambling.
typically occurring include organized crime, racketeering, drug distribution, or gangs. Dog fighting events often serve to facilitate gambling and drug trafficking. As with other criminal enterprises, communities suffer from the unlawful activities which become an unwholesome part of the neighborhood culture.
Even seasoned law enforcement agents are consistently appalled by the atrocities that they encounter before, during, and after dog fights, children in those communities are routinely exposed to the unfathomable violence that is inherent within the blood sport and become conditioned to believe that the violence is normal. Those children are systematically desensitized to the suffering, and ultimately become criminalized.
The tie to the culture of crime is intriguing and perhaps scary. Here is Vick that has it made, yet continues directly involved with this illegal and ugly activity. But I don't think the NAACP is really on board with the cultural thing, from this...
Vick
"certainly was in control of his actions at all times and
should be held accountable
for what he did," Dennis Courtland Hayes, interim president of the national NAACP, said Thursday in an interview with MSNBC's Amy Robach.
Hayes rejected the contention that dogfighting was an acceptable part of urban black culture
, as celebrated in rap and hip-hop videos like "Grand Champ" by DMX or "99 Problems" by Jay-Z.
Apparently the idea it was from the NAACP came from a Sharpton parody blog, not from Sharpton.
Sorry Waysider, that is incorrect. Race is a scientific reality and there are consistent differences between races in humans and ofher creatures as well.
Actually Krysilis, Waysider is a good deal right in what he says. Genetically speaking, we humans are all the same; the only differences (in context with what you're referring to) being in skin color, hair color, eye color, and other _surface_ characteristics. The concept of race didn't come along until the late 1700s-early 1800s, and that as a kind of 'science'. (Ie., bogus)
Scientifically and biologically speaking though, this differences between races has been given far too much emphasis than is really there (Which resulted in all kind of totally ridiculous things being practiced over the years). The only real differences are what people make in their cultural differences, and it doesn't go any farther than that.
Scientifically speaking, the only race that we humans are part of is the human race.
The Atlanta NAACP President made a comment along the lines of why all the uproar over dog fights and not deer hunting? It is a cultural thing. But I can't find the quote reported by any news source.
What an idiot. Deer hunting is 1) for food and 2) you generally aim to get an instant kill instead of torturing an animal. Other animals hunt each other. It's natural. What most other animals do not do is kill for fun. You don't see tigers killing some prey by hanging them from a tree, or forcing it's prey to fight each other. Dog-fighting is out of the natural order of things. My relatives hunt (I tried it but I fall asleep too easily in the woods at 4am) and they are not ok with torturing animals. It's pretty clear to see the difference for most people. I guess the head of the Atlanta NAACP just wanted to stir up controversy.
There is a neighborhood here in Atlanta where Mexicans were slaughtering goats on their front yard to cook at a BBQ they were having.
The neighbors are outraged.
I guess the neighbors are a bunch of uppity suburbanites that think meat comes from meat-trees that are pre-packaged like you buy at the grocery store. One side of my family are country people. We grew up with cattle, chickens, and growing tons of vegetables. Animals die so we can eat meat. It bothers me that the majority of Americans are unable and unwilling to face the reality. Perhaps we should start licensing people to eat meat, a requirement of which is that they are present for the slaughter of at least one animal that they eat. After that, they can eat as much as they want to.
While I've noticed that many "black" people in our illustrious capital city do own pit bulls, I've also noticed a lot of "white" people being arrested for breeding and fighting pit bulls. In my opinion, dog fighting, cock fighting, etc. are all about the gambling. The laws should be enforced no matter who is breaking them or what flavor the offender.
And just because you can say "it's a cultural thing" doesn't make it right. In Mississippi and other states in the 1960's it was a "cultural thing" for white people to lynch black people. Should Sheriff Bull Connor have been allowed to say, "Oh, I'm just calling out the dogs and fire hoses to protect the culture of white southerners."? I think not.
Sorry Waysider, that is incorrect. Race is a scientific reality and there are consistent differences between races in humans and ofher creatures as well.
Race was considered a scientific reality a long time ago, but it isn't anymore. The old classifications are bogus. I found this article to be good.
``This dialogue on race is driving me up the wall,'' said Jefferson Fish, a psychologist at St. John's University in New York who has written extensively about race in America. ``Nobody is asking the question, `What is race?' It is a biologically meaningless category. It is a cultural term that Americans use to describe what a person's ancestry is.
``But biologically the human species does not have categories. It just has variations as one travels around the world.''
." Many anthropologists contend that while the features on which racial categorizations are made may be based on genetic factors, the idea of race itself, and actual divisions of persons into groups based on selected hereditary features, are
Race is just family, or extended family. So if an individual goes to a doc and he wants to know what you eat ... then says cut back on the fried foods, that might apply to your family. So larger studies by race can be helpful in determining fixes for problems that may be culturally caused. That can be done with the scientific method, but DNA analysis will make for better results.
But beyond that, there are certain traits within family histories, so especially now with DNA analysis, early testing for certain diseases can be done. There are even personality characteristics I think, genetic and linked to family/race.
And as in family, some have higher IQ, some are stronger, some are healthier. Since we tend to group based on skin, or region... it seems useful to do scientific studies that seperate those groups. Then the source of problems can be identified as environmental perhaps, or diet, or even some racially/culturally linked activity.
It is the method of the study that determines the usefulness of race studies, and it is just one of many ways to group people. Of course there are no racially "pure" people, but that is not important. Statistics based on race are meaningful as long as limitations are understood.
I think what Michael Vick did was deplorable and disgusting...
I usually am somewhat lenient towards people when they make certain mistakes...not this time.
Animal cruelty goes beyond the pail of making a "mistake"...it's a serious charactor flaw...if an entire culture accepts it as normal, then the entire culture has a "cultural charactor flaw"...in MY opinion.
I do not participate in killing for sport...or in seeing an animal injured...and certainly what Vick was doing was evil, heartless and cruel. I say cut him no slack...none. I hope the NFL bans him for life.
...and a side note about deer hunting:
I live in a rural area that is chock full of deer and deer hunting season is very popular here. I have no objection to thinning out an overpopulated herd and providing meat for your family...what I DO object to is guys who go out hunting with a case of beer, and end up wounding the animal that runs for miles through the woods in excruciating pain and terror...meanwhile, the "hunters" make a quick stop at the convienient store for more beer before they start tracking it down...and even though they have licenses and eat the meat...they still enjoy the sport of killing..it's fun for them to watch it's head explode...for the life of this magnificent animal to be extinguished for their amusement...with no respect for what they kill.
We have white tail deer here, and they have alot of babies, if the winter are harsh the older, weaker and sicker ones die and the natural order of nature works.
not the case tho .. in the subarban americana we live in life is good for the deer , they now have 3 babies a year and they often survive , in the country this is rare and even if twins are born possibly only one survives.
what is wrong with too many deer in residential setting? car accidents amass . destroyed property, and injured sickly animals inbreeding. so we have a birth control shot for some that live in the park and are willing to stay within its borders. it is costly.
we also have open season on the deer in the fall.
now we have the coyoties sp out of control. and we have a season and permission to shoot them on sight.
this is surburban america. wild animals do not live well with the human population, bird feeders your pet dogs are all in danger of feeding a critter that has no where to go.
you can not claim well they were here first , people should move , because in the natural order of things wild animals do not live to be as healthy across the board it is survivla of the fittest. here life is to good for them and they end up in trouble with the people because they have learned to adapt to living with people .
as far as the dogs go. it is a felony to abuse animals in NY here owners must provide heated shelter and cool shelter and food and water at all times.
we have alot of this in this city they make arrests every week here. they have several dogs that need to be killed in the pound right now that were BRED to be fighters and are no good other than dead. no rehab for a dog that is bred to fight and i was looking at them adn they are so cute little bulls full of muscle with scars all over their heads and looking like they would eat you if they could get near you. and they probably would.
these are not dogs that can be rehab into nice family pets.
not saying a pit cant be a pet (i wouldnt trust them tho if i had children) but these pups are bred and inbred to be mean.
by humans.
my frind breeds her pit. she claims it is for pets but how can she be sure where they could end up a dog lives a long time. people give up their pets for many reason and a pit can be exploited.
the crime in the cities are bad and having a not so friendly pit bull around when your dealing drugs or robbing people can be helpful.. and that is the word cultural . yes ghetto life is a culture. a person can have a certain address and not be ghetto .. ghetto is culture not adress.
i see nothing at all about the color of ones skin in the statement that is race not culture.
so is he saying our culture is one of allowing people to break the laws we have in place to protect animals from abuse and neglect?
why do they do it?
they are animals their own self without regard to HUMAN life much less what a dog would bring .
yes that is a culture and it is alive in america.
i do hope he isnt implying "it is a black thing" as the saying goes, because i do not believe that for a minute.
in the cultural of crime it probably is ok, but so is gang war fare
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excathedra
i don't know, i really don't
if i accidentally step on one of my dog's toes, it breaks my heart
i just don't get it
they really say it's a cultural thing ?
being cruel is a cultural thing ?
i meant a community thing
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RumRunner
Animal fighting is indeed cultural. I cannot make a direct comment on most of your post since I consider "black" to be a race not a culture. You can find east Indians who are black, Hmong highlanders who are black. I make a distinction between race and culture.
That being said so I (hopefully) don't come across as racist; you will find animal fighting in cultures all over the world. In most of east Asia there is dog-fighting, cock-fighting, lizard-fighting and even bear and boar-fighting. Cock-fighting and boar-fighting is common in many South American countries...and...in some countries you can still see humans playing Russian roulette as a betting sport.
I find it as repulsive as you but nonetheless it does exist as a "cultural event" in many parts of the world.
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waysider
According to the U.S. Census in 2004, 13% of the U.S.demographic are "black"(their word).
It's totally ridiculous to believe that 13% of the people in this country consider dog fighting a "misunderstood" part of their "culture".
The bottom line is that the N@@CP has its own agenda and does not represent all "blacks" in this country.
Similar parallels could be drawn if the discussion were centered around "cock fighting" and how it is regarded in the Hispanic community.
Torturing animals is NOT "OK".
It is, however, a very big money making business with ties to many other forms of corruption.
This much I recognize.
Just my opinion.
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Nottawayfer
Well if Vick was a REAL man, he would come out to the public (including his own communities) and state that he made a very grave horrendous mistake and that this kind of cruelty to animals should stop. It takes a small mind to enjoy watching and betting money so animals can kill each other outside of the normal circle of life.
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washingtonweather
Rapper DMX - in the news for abused pit bull dogs.
The use of leeches was cultural too--- do you see that still happening in any sane community?
Slaves were cultural too - see that?
Better not get me started.
A** H*les are cross-cultural unfortunately
http://www.kpho.com/news/13970298/detail.html
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Ductape
The Atlanta NAACP President made a comment along the lines of why all the uproar over dog fights and not deer hunting? It is a cultural thing. But I can't find the quote reported by any news source.
The National NAACP has condemned the dog fighting but want Vick rehabilitated and returned to the NFAL. After all he made a "mistake". Killing one animal might be a mistake, but I hear he killed around 8 none preformers. Mistake my ( * )
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herbiejuan
Vick initially denied knowledge and involvement in the dog fighting ring so it's abvious he had prior knowledge that what he was doing was illegal. He kept the innocent charade up until his buddies started talking and getting serious jail time anyway. I think that is more telling of his true character than anything the NAACP can say about dog fighting being a cultural thang.
I'm not a big Falcons fan but from what I've seen of football games and the sport news it looks to me like Vick was overpaid overhyped and overcoddled. In other words he never lived up to his salary or his place as a team leader.
That observation aside I would imagine a comeback might not be in Vicks best interest, I hear there are more than a few animal loving linebackers that would love to get their hands on his arse, just to show his how much fun it is being torn up n beat down.
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ChasUFarley
This might upset some people around here...
But...
If I was black and that statement was pinned on me by the NAACP, I would be outraged! The statement is stereotyping black people and black culture - it's an ignorant, offensive, and negative thing to say!
You can liken it to cockfighting, bullfighting, fox hunting - you name it.
Just because it was done in the past - that doesn't make it right today.
It needs to stop. All of it.
(But Chas is old enough to know it won't - but maybe this Vick case will shed some light on things...)
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waysider
RumRunner
My post followed yours so it looked like I was responding to you.
I really wasn't.
The Census Bureau breaks the demographic down into black, white, and other.
The Hmong Highlanders and East Indians that you mentioned, are considered other.(As far as I know.)
"Race" is really not a scientific reality so much as a way of social sciences and medical sciences having some sort of way to catalog information. It serves a purpose.
While it is true that some groups are more prone to things like high blood pressure, sickle cell anemia, skin cancers, and so on, at the basic DNA level, all humans, regardless of race, are basically the same.
Animal fighting is, indeed, associated with various cultures and the moral perceptions of what they(The cultures as a whole) find acceptable. I don't personally see that as being the case with Vick.
In my opinion, he is using the cultural explanation to rationalize and justify a behavior he knew was illegal and at cross odds with what the larger culture of American citizens find unacceptable.
I think that's what some people used to call "weaseling his way out".
Again---Just my 2 cents.
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washingtonweather
This cultural thing begs the question - just because it's cultural does it make it acceptable?
I wrote a paper about this very thing - what if you don't prefer a certain cultural quality -- does that make you a bigot against that culture...I don't think so...
deeper - how do we impose laws -- "no dog abuse - let alone fighting" or any other cultural event that has a law imposed against it -- how can we enforce it
edited for doubling the post some how
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Dot Matrix
Dear NAACP
It is illegal to abuse animals.
That culture thing came out in one of our VET magazines about him.
The vet here said, the white rednecks used to fight dogs way more often than the blacks did. If anything it is a "white culture" thing. However, since it became illegal, less whites have done it.
Oh and when is the last time someone hung a deer?
Animal torture is more like profiling a serial killer -- than making it a black thing.
I think BLACKS everywhere should be outraged. I wish Oprah would speak out!!!
BTW
There is a neighborhood here in Atlanta where Mexicans were slaughtering goats on their front yard to cook at a BBQ they were having.
The neighbors are outraged.
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Rocky
I don't think there's any "maybe" to it.
Widespread awareness will make many (but not all) people give it thought, and hopefully many will realize how horrible this "cultural" issue is.
Indeed, just because slavery was culturally acceptible at one time doesn't mean it wasn't cruel. And when enough people (other than the white land/plantation owners who benefitted from it) became aware of it, abolition of the practice was inevitable even if it still took a great deal of time and anguish to see it actually happen.
Writing letters to editors of your local newspapers is also an excellent way to continue to raise awareness and outrage.
Several of the posts on this thread are structured as questions. Rhetorical questions.
I strongly recommend that folks who articulated those posts write concise (editors often favor pithy letters at or less than 200 words long) letters on this subject and get them (by email) to those editors of your local news publications.
I've seen it work MANY times... and have had many letters of my own published. The most effective letters get readers to come up with the answer(s) on their own. One of the best ways to do that is by posing very pointed rhetorical questions... questions for which there can only be one serious answer... and the reader then thinks he/she came up with the answer on their own.
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dmiller
For those who are REALLY concerned (and I have no doubt that you are),
Take your arguements to Pamplona, Spain in July, and tell them to a Matador.
Or -- go to a WWF match and voice the same thing.
In no way do I condone the violence exhibited -- man or beast.
Where there's a market -- there's a product.
Getting rid of the *market* will initiate the demise of the *product*.
I'll say -- Good luck in doing so. (Honestly -- I do).
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Ductape
Imagine the out rage that would have followed if any one other than the head of the Atlanta NAACP had said this.
It is equal to saying drugs, gangs and criminal gambling are all black cultural things.
Dog fighting is illegal in all North American countries and some states make even attending one a felony. Deer hunting is legal and the comparison is ridiculous! That NCAAP leader made one of the most racist statements I have heard in a long time, white man would be walking down the street kicking stones talking to himself with his last pay check in hand for saying less....
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ChasUFarley
...and that's what I mean when I say I'm old enough to know this all isn't going to go away...
One other thing...
Big Dogs clothing is coming out with a t-shirt showing their Big Dog mascot spanking Vick. Of course you can send it to a friend - or you can BUY it... Yup, someone has figgered out how to make $$$ off this - and that's upsetting to me with ANY crime... It's just WRONG. Period.
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krys
Sorry Waysider, that is incorrect. Race is a scientific reality and there are consistent differences between races in humans and ofher creatures as well.
We just need to be careful how we use the words and use the right ones. I don't care what or who you are, but if you want to fight pit bulls and train them to hurt each other so you can make money on your bets, you really don't belong in the same society I chose to live in, and we have laws, and if you break them, you pay the price.
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rhino
Sounds interesting WW, is that paper online? ... in the age of imported "diversity", it is likely we will confront this issue many times.
Many cultures (outside the US) seem to have less respect for laws ... some are raised more with the law of the jungle, and in Africa that is quite literal perhaps. I know agriculture has a real concern about bird diseases getting into the chicken industry from Mexcian fighting cocks smuggled across the border.
It seems our society is rather genteel generally ... hopefully some American traditions will not be diversified away in the name of maintaining endangered cultural traditions.
This is from wikipedia
and this
The tie to the culture of crime is intriguing and perhaps scary. Here is Vick that has it made, yet continues directly involved with this illegal and ugly activity. But I don't think the NAACP is really on board with the cultural thing, from this...
Apparently the idea it was from the NAACP came from a Sharpton parody blog, not from Sharpton.
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GarthP2000
Actually Krysilis, Waysider is a good deal right in what he says. Genetically speaking, we humans are all the same; the only differences (in context with what you're referring to) being in skin color, hair color, eye color, and other _surface_ characteristics. The concept of race didn't come along until the late 1700s-early 1800s, and that as a kind of 'science'. (Ie., bogus)
Scientifically and biologically speaking though, this differences between races has been given far too much emphasis than is really there (Which resulted in all kind of totally ridiculous things being practiced over the years). The only real differences are what people make in their cultural differences, and it doesn't go any farther than that.
Scientifically speaking, the only race that we humans are part of is the human race.
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Mister P-Mosh
What an idiot. Deer hunting is 1) for food and 2) you generally aim to get an instant kill instead of torturing an animal. Other animals hunt each other. It's natural. What most other animals do not do is kill for fun. You don't see tigers killing some prey by hanging them from a tree, or forcing it's prey to fight each other. Dog-fighting is out of the natural order of things. My relatives hunt (I tried it but I fall asleep too easily in the woods at 4am) and they are not ok with torturing animals. It's pretty clear to see the difference for most people. I guess the head of the Atlanta NAACP just wanted to stir up controversy.
I guess the neighbors are a bunch of uppity suburbanites that think meat comes from meat-trees that are pre-packaged like you buy at the grocery store. One side of my family are country people. We grew up with cattle, chickens, and growing tons of vegetables. Animals die so we can eat meat. It bothers me that the majority of Americans are unable and unwilling to face the reality. Perhaps we should start licensing people to eat meat, a requirement of which is that they are present for the slaughter of at least one animal that they eat. After that, they can eat as much as they want to.
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Watered Garden
While I've noticed that many "black" people in our illustrious capital city do own pit bulls, I've also noticed a lot of "white" people being arrested for breeding and fighting pit bulls. In my opinion, dog fighting, cock fighting, etc. are all about the gambling. The laws should be enforced no matter who is breaking them or what flavor the offender.
And just because you can say "it's a cultural thing" doesn't make it right. In Mississippi and other states in the 1960's it was a "cultural thing" for white people to lynch black people. Should Sheriff Bull Connor have been allowed to say, "Oh, I'm just calling out the dogs and fire hoses to protect the culture of white southerners."? I think not.
WG
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Mister P-Mosh
Race was considered a scientific reality a long time ago, but it isn't anymore. The old classifications are bogus. I found this article to be good.
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rhino
I'd say "black white other" has usefulness and is certainly scientific, as long as terms are properly defined. Here is a bit from Wikipedia
Race is just family, or extended family. So if an individual goes to a doc and he wants to know what you eat ... then says cut back on the fried foods, that might apply to your family. So larger studies by race can be helpful in determining fixes for problems that may be culturally caused. That can be done with the scientific method, but DNA analysis will make for better results.
But beyond that, there are certain traits within family histories, so especially now with DNA analysis, early testing for certain diseases can be done. There are even personality characteristics I think, genetic and linked to family/race.
And as in family, some have higher IQ, some are stronger, some are healthier. Since we tend to group based on skin, or region... it seems useful to do scientific studies that seperate those groups. Then the source of problems can be identified as environmental perhaps, or diet, or even some racially/culturally linked activity.
It is the method of the study that determines the usefulness of race studies, and it is just one of many ways to group people. Of course there are no racially "pure" people, but that is not important. Statistics based on race are meaningful as long as limitations are understood.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I think what Michael Vick did was deplorable and disgusting...
I usually am somewhat lenient towards people when they make certain mistakes...not this time.
Animal cruelty goes beyond the pail of making a "mistake"...it's a serious charactor flaw...if an entire culture accepts it as normal, then the entire culture has a "cultural charactor flaw"...in MY opinion.
I do not participate in killing for sport...or in seeing an animal injured...and certainly what Vick was doing was evil, heartless and cruel. I say cut him no slack...none. I hope the NFL bans him for life.
...and a side note about deer hunting:
I live in a rural area that is chock full of deer and deer hunting season is very popular here. I have no objection to thinning out an overpopulated herd and providing meat for your family...what I DO object to is guys who go out hunting with a case of beer, and end up wounding the animal that runs for miles through the woods in excruciating pain and terror...meanwhile, the "hunters" make a quick stop at the convienient store for more beer before they start tracking it down...and even though they have licenses and eat the meat...they still enjoy the sport of killing..it's fun for them to watch it's head explode...for the life of this magnificent animal to be extinguished for their amusement...with no respect for what they kill.
I know this is true...I see it all the time.
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pond
We have white tail deer here, and they have alot of babies, if the winter are harsh the older, weaker and sicker ones die and the natural order of nature works.
not the case tho .. in the subarban americana we live in life is good for the deer , they now have 3 babies a year and they often survive , in the country this is rare and even if twins are born possibly only one survives.
what is wrong with too many deer in residential setting? car accidents amass . destroyed property, and injured sickly animals inbreeding. so we have a birth control shot for some that live in the park and are willing to stay within its borders. it is costly.
we also have open season on the deer in the fall.
now we have the coyoties sp out of control. and we have a season and permission to shoot them on sight.
this is surburban america. wild animals do not live well with the human population, bird feeders your pet dogs are all in danger of feeding a critter that has no where to go.
you can not claim well they were here first , people should move , because in the natural order of things wild animals do not live to be as healthy across the board it is survivla of the fittest. here life is to good for them and they end up in trouble with the people because they have learned to adapt to living with people .
as far as the dogs go. it is a felony to abuse animals in NY here owners must provide heated shelter and cool shelter and food and water at all times.
we have alot of this in this city they make arrests every week here. they have several dogs that need to be killed in the pound right now that were BRED to be fighters and are no good other than dead. no rehab for a dog that is bred to fight and i was looking at them adn they are so cute little bulls full of muscle with scars all over their heads and looking like they would eat you if they could get near you. and they probably would.
these are not dogs that can be rehab into nice family pets.
not saying a pit cant be a pet (i wouldnt trust them tho if i had children) but these pups are bred and inbred to be mean.
by humans.
my frind breeds her pit. she claims it is for pets but how can she be sure where they could end up a dog lives a long time. people give up their pets for many reason and a pit can be exploited.
the crime in the cities are bad and having a not so friendly pit bull around when your dealing drugs or robbing people can be helpful.. and that is the word cultural . yes ghetto life is a culture. a person can have a certain address and not be ghetto .. ghetto is culture not adress.
i see nothing at all about the color of ones skin in the statement that is race not culture.
so is he saying our culture is one of allowing people to break the laws we have in place to protect animals from abuse and neglect?
why do they do it?
they are animals their own self without regard to HUMAN life much less what a dog would bring .
yes that is a culture and it is alive in america.
i do hope he isnt implying "it is a black thing" as the saying goes, because i do not believe that for a minute.
in the cultural of crime it probably is ok, but so is gang war fare
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