TWI Headquarters - a maintenance nightmare?

[igotout]

I worked on staff in Way Builders my entire interim year (1978) on maintenance and plumbing crews all over TWI’s property and buildings. I saw then what a big job it was simply to “maintain” headquarters on a regular basis. It also takes a good bit of money to do so. Back then they were flush with cash and it was no problem.

Today it appears that TWI continues to shrink or flounder at best and there does not seem to be any hope of recovery. In my opinion it will NEVER return to its past “success”....NEVER.

Common sense would dictate that they sell off some of the property. Isn’t TWI several hundred acres? Also they should sell off some of the homes, crappy trailers and buildings including the silly and mostly empty auditorium and the mistakenly built Presidents home originally called the Corps Chalet.

In fact, I think they would be best served selling it all and moving TWI headquarters to their awesome Gunnison property of 100 acres.

No shame in downsizing. Failing corporations do it all the time. They shut things down, lay people off and downsize quickly as is prudent for them. It seems to make no sense to have the expense of maintaining “Way World” out there in the cornfields any longer. “YOUR ABUNDANT SHARING AT WORK”. If I were a member I would stop flushing my hard earned abundant sharing dollars down TWI's toilets (and expensive sewer system) until better decisions are made.

[waysider]

What sorts of legal hoops would they need to jump through in regard to their tax status?

[igotout]

What sorts of legal hoops would they need to jump through in regard to their tax status?

None. They just take the millions they would make from the sale and it still belongs to them as far as I can tell. As long as they do not profit from it personally. Howerver according to Pat Roberge (may he rest in peace) Gunnison is a separate corpopration called Camp Gunnison, Inc. so not sure how that would come into play.

They should simplify and get rid of that huge headquarters land. It's senseless now in the modern day and times we live in. Reminds me of the Branch Davidian's 77 acre property in Texas.

[Belle]

Makes sense, John. But, but.... isn't Gunnison even more costly to maintain?? All those log cabins and wood burning heaters? Of course, since it's not being used for much of anything anymore since the pathetically small wc training class has been moved to hq.

I also think someone mentioned that in a recent visit to hq, that it's not the pristinely maintained mausoleum that it once was. So, they are already cutting back to some degree.... how much more are they going to cut, I wonder....

[rhino]

"YOUR ABUNDANT SHARING AT WORK". If I were a member I would stop flushing my hard earned abundant sharing dollars down TWI's toilets (and expensive sewer system) until better decisions are made.

That's it then ... the next time I send in a blue form and money, I'm designating it for alcohol and debauchery ONLY. All that maintenance is truly a waste.

[Bramble]

To keep their non profit status, don't they actually have to use the property? I remember something about Emporia, before they sold it. It was empty, but they would have an occasional weekend class etc there do to some nonprofit rule they had to fulfill.

[skyrider]

I worked on staff in Way Builders my entire interim year (1978) on maintenance and plumbing crews all over TWI’s property and buildings. I saw then what a big job it was simply to “maintain” headquarters on a regular basis. It also takes a good bit of money to do so. Back then they were flush with cash and it was no problem.

And, back then........45-75 interim corps were assigned to those high-service areas like way builders, grounds crew, shipping, housekeeping, etc. Along with this 55-hr/wk+ work assignment, interim corps were assigned a "household responsibility" [i.e. BRC set-up, dining room set-up] and other responsibilities like ushering or whatever. And, groups of in-residence corps would do a bulk of the mundane set-up as well.

Back then...........twi paid interim corps $75 a month.

Without these quantities of corps slave-labor, today's twi is a shell of its former self.

[igotout]

Hey Skyrider - our love to you and your blessed family!

You are exactly right. as I recall, 1/3 of the 7th Corps was sent to work on staff, over a hundred I think. Some of us were very capable and diligent workers. For example, my boss Chuck Nevins was a master plumber. And Randy Z was an architect while Mark R was a very smart engineer. Our MONTHLY pay was $75 and I worked my AXXSS off a minimum of 50 hour weeks! I once complained to Howard privately about our pay. So he gave me $200 to buy some much needed clothes and to probably shut me up. Big deal.

At the end of the year, when I was leaving, VPW came and sat with a few of us. I could tell he wanted me to stay on board after graduation. He said "Kids, I just can't understand why people won't come on staff and help with the movement of the Word, etc, bs, bs, bs." I told him outright, the reason I am not interested is because it does not pay enough. He looked at me kind of funny but I didn't care at that point because I knew I would never be back to work on staff. Except for the drunken Way Builder parties, I hated it. Ha, ha. But I digress.

I would guess $millions have been spent just to keep that property in condition. Material cost have gone up, etc. What about the cost of electricity? Can you imagine the lawn and landscape efforts alone?

All for what? A few thousand half hearted participants and some board and cabinet "lifers" who have stayed on as TWI crumbled into the shell it is now?

It's like an crumbling estate or castle being maintained by low level, low paid serf's.

Edited August 26, 2007 by igotout

[WordWolf]

Is there anyone out there who would actually want to BUY the land, who has that kind of money?

You can only sell if there is a buyer.....

[Nottawayfer]

I'm sure there are local farmers who would buy it. I don't know what they would do with the auditorium. It would seem a shame to tear that bulding down. The OSC is pretty huge, but it is old. They were slowly updating some of the offices when I left HQ in 2001.

While I was at HQ, Howard told us that they took the old ROA parking lot and leased it for farming. He bragged how it produced much better crops for the people who leased it. They could do that with the ROA tent area too. that would save a lot of grass maintenance for them. Heck, the West Woods could be cleared for farming too.

[TheInvisibleDan]

Should they actually decide to sell their Ohio landholdings and move to Gunnison, makes me wonder

if they would also box up the bones of their patriarchs to re-plant at the new hq.

[George Aar]

Hell, if they really wanted to downsize, couldn't they accomplish everything they do right now out of an 8' X 10' office space in town somewhere?

Yeah, that and a storage garage at "Public Storage" and they'd have it made. Sell everything else, properties, props, WayProd crap, equipment, facilities, all of it. Just sell it all and then play church for as much as they have to, to please the IRS, and then take more sabatacals in the Cayman Islands or somesuch.

Maybe they could turn the whole shebang into a Mail Order operation and sub-out the publications and mailings to another firm, give themselves a big-a$$ raise and screw around even more than they are already?

Edited August 26, 2007 by George Aar

[dmiller]

Should they actually decide to sell their Ohio landholdings and move to Gunnison, makes me wonder

if they would also box up the bones of their patriarchs to re-plant at the new hq.

[Jim]

It's all silly speculation, of course, but if I had to make the decision, I'd sell Gunnison and shrink HQ back down to what it was in 1975.

Two trailers ought to house the present day corps. Hold services and corps training in the BRC, dinner in the basement. They did it with a lot more people in '75. Sell off the fields, OSC, way woods and auditorium. The OSC would probably sell fast if the price is right. Good building for light or medium industrial use. I have no idea what the auditorium could be used for.

I'm gonna take a wild-assed guess that it costs between $5000-$10,000 a month just to heat and cool the OSC. And at least $1000/week to power up the auditorium for SNS. Rosie isn't a fool and would no doubt prefer to see that money in her IRA. OTOH, she's also smart enough to know that she can't convince anyone that "God told me to sell the property"

OTOH, maybe they're hoping to hold ROA 2008 on the grounds....

[GrouchoMarxJr]

Hell, if they really wanted to downsize, couldn't they accomplish everything they do right now out of an 8' X 10' office space in town somewhere?

Yeah, that and a storage garage at "Public Storage" and they'd have it made. Sell everything else, properties, props, WayProd crap, equipment, facilities, all of it. Just sell it all and then play church for as much as they have to, to please the IRS, and then take more sabatacals in the Cayman Islands or somesuch.

Maybe they could turn the whole shebang into a Mail Order operation and sub-out the publications and mailings to another firm, give themselves a big-a$$ raise and screw around even more than they are already?

I think George hit the nail on the head...the size of their properties and holdings is far greater than their need. Maybe they could simply pull a double wide up on a vacant lot and run the whole operation. A secretary to answer the phone and send out the brochures...

I'll bet that rosie spends half her time trying to figure out how to get at all that money without the IRS asking her questions.

talk about an organization hitting the skids...twi is like Flint, Michigan after the plants all closed down...

[skyrider]

I think George hit the nail on the head...the size of their properties and holdings is far greater than their need. Maybe they could simply pull a double wide up on a vacant lot and run the whole operation. A secretary to answer the phone and send out the brochures...

I'll bet that rosie spends half her time trying to figure out how to get at all that money without the IRS asking her questions.

talk about an organization hitting the skids...twi is like Flint, Michigan after the plants all closed down...

Of course...........twi has a mystique/image perception that seems to attract the long-standing innies. Buzzwords like The Way International, headquarters, root locale, tapped to the root..... are like "aroma flares" for those sniffing the winds of wierwillism.

IMO, twi will clutch this hq property tightly like a golden goose laying golden eggs......UNTIL their goose is cooked. And, if in the end all else fails.............twi will become a wierwille bookstore for mail orders, supplies, and wierwille-idolizing momentos.

Edited August 26, 2007 by skyrider

[GrouchoMarxJr]

Well...at least as screwed up as they are, they no longer push lcm as the"great mog of the present truth"...what a joke THAT was...I understand that he's now a psychological basketcase.

[Jim]

What was he before?

[skyrider]

What was he before?

the minister of jock, shock and ahhhhhhh.....

[doojable]

I just keep thinking that the reason they have a "root locale" called HQ is so they not only sound and look more important, they also can control the rumors more directly.

[skyrider]

I just keep thinking that the reason they have a "root locale" called HQ is so they not only sound and look more important, they also can control the rumors more directly.

And.....I keep thinking tha tthe reason wierwille had a "way tree" and "root system" was to keep counterfeit imagery control factors in place.

After all, to highlight "members in particular" and "One Body with Christ as the head" sure has a way of taking wierwille out of the spotlight altogether.

[doojable]

And.....I keep thinking that the reason wierwille had a "way tree" and "root system" was to keep counterfeit imagery control factors in place.

After all, to highlight "members in particular" and "One Body with Christ as the head" sure has a way of taking wierwille out of the spotlight altogether.

So it looks like we're on the same page...

One Body with Christ as the Head" was paid lipservice. Then there was the insidious MOG that was some kind of intercessor. No offense to those ordained - but the teaching kinda led to that belief. From there a lot of control was wielded.

And another thing....the "ordained ones" weren't necessarily" those believed to have "Gift ministries" they just got a title and some power. There were lots of folks with real ministries that got overlooked.

So from where I sit... ordination was another way to control - both the "person" and the "people."

[waysider]

I think the reason there was a *Way Tr33*, is simply because that was the best environment for their multi-level-marketing(MLM) operation to function.

Remember, VPW was first and foremost a businessman.

As to the *root locale* image; I think it was all hype to generate mystique and add to Wierwille's need for self importance.

Their MLM operation is in a shambles and the Camelot image is long gone.

What is the real point of holding on to something that is dragging down the profit margin?

[skyrider]

What is the real point of holding on to something that is dragging down the profit margin?

The REAL POINT is............twi's pyramid structure gives the "top movers and shakers" a system of adulation/praise far beyond corporate reality, a decent paycheck (with hidden bonuses?) with some perks in rural Ohio and emeritus status late in life. That's why the focus HAS to stay on headquarters.....as they "sell the benefits of staying tapped to the root" week after week.

What was pawned off as "The life of the ministry is in the twig"........shifted to "The life and adoration of the ministry is at The Root." And, of course.......those heavily invested staffers at hq are all smiles at major events knowing that their job security depends on it.

With $48 Million in assets/investments.....and squeezing every drop of blood outta every abs penny, it should be enough to keep things going for many years still. Besides, how many other UNKNOWN houses does twi own that are hidden in the books......houses that could be sold?

[TheHighWay]

I agree with Jim on this one... if they ever decided to downsize, I think they would sell Gunnison and downsize HQ. EOB, BRC, Founder's Home... They would find some way to convince the remaining followers that it was God's will to go back to their roots.