People who are passive-aggressive appear to comply with the requests of others. They may even seem enthusiastic about them. But they don't perform the requested action on time or in a useful way. In other words, they use nonverbal behavior to express anger or resentment that they can't express verbally. An example is showing up very late to a meeting that you didn't really want to attend and then making up excuses for your lateness that deflect attention from the real reason you were late.
I know someone who says that passive/aggressive behaviour is really the utmost in cowardice.
Any thoughts or insight?
Well, I can understand that person's viewpoint, and how it would seem to be the "utmost in cowardice" but I believe that label is way too simplistic. And in being too simplistic, it's ultimately misleading, IMO.
I had some pretty intense life experiences that brought passive-aggresive behavior to my awareness in the early to mid 1990s. That conduct was being employed by someone VERY important to me (not myself) at the time, someone from whom it took a great deal of effort and too much money and heartache before I was able to extricate myself therefrom. And having been subject to that person's coping method (of choice?), I probably would have said the same thing (that it's the ultimate in cowardice) during the nearly two year period marked by the litigation that actually just began the extrication process.
In the years since, I have become acutely aware of when I am inclined, tempted, or actually use such tactics to cope with a wide variety of situations.
IF emotional/psychological defense mechanisms were employed (by humans in general) exclusively (or even just primarily) as a result of conscious choice/decisions, it might be fair to label it as cowardice. But that really is NOT the case.
I understand that defense mechanisms are often employed by any given human without giving the matter even the smallest amount of thought. And because it's likely that the person picked up the "habit" as a child, I would hesitate to make any conclusion that would suggest it is done with any kind of overt intent.
People who are passive-aggressive appear to comply with the requests of others. They may even seem enthusiastic about them. But they don't perform the requested action on time or in a useful way. In other words, they use nonverbal behavior to express anger or resentment that they can't express verbally. An example is showing up very late to a meeting that you didn't really want to attend and then making up excuses for your lateness that deflect attention from the real reason you were late.
I tend to err in this direction.. but not to the extent of showing up late at meetings, putting off obligations, etc..
but under normal circumstances, I'll tell someone "no" several times politely before REALLY ignoring them..
I find it's more often the person who is physically at a disadvantage who employs the technique mostly out of a defensive strategy (consciously or not).
Specifically, I find women (almost universally) tend towards the passive/aggressive technique almost as their default mode.
I find it's more often the person who is physically at a disadvantage who employs the technique mostly out of a defensive strategy (consciously or not).
sometimes it is the opposite. Sometimes, the big guy just doesn't have it in his heart and conscience to beat the snot out of some poor over-demanding slob..
I find it's more often the person who is physically at a disadvantage who employs the technique mostly out of a defensive strategy (consciously or not).
Specifically, I find women (almost universally) tend towards the passive/aggressive technique almost as their default mode.
Maybe it's just my perception? Maybe...
Well George, I've seen this behaviour (too often!) in both men and women. It's annoying no matter who does it.
I think it's not so much physical advantage that plays a role - but I definitely think it has a lot to do with wanting to have control and power.
There's something else too, though. By not just saying, "No," right off the bat, the passive/aggressive can still appear to be the "nice" person. Of course, this veneer all disintegrates as soon as they worn out their excuses.
My manager has classic P/A behavior disorder - I often catch her in lies and have listened to her manipulate and then just emotionally burn people. I don't put up with it but then I've always functioned more like a man emotionally. I don't play games - I tell it like it is. If I'm mad at you - I say it right out, "I'm mad at you for talking down to me." This woman would rather sulk, lie, play headgames, blame others - it's never HER fault and I've never heard her apologize (and mean it).
Life is too short to spend time with these sorts of people. It's just NOT worth the hassel.
Gawd, the stories I could tell you... but time doesn't allow it today...
Gawd, the stories I could tell you... but time doesn't allow it today...
You're a tease Chas!
Actually I've known several people who are like this continually. Both men and women. I realize that some folks are just the average smo that will use a P/A behavior as a defense mechanism. It's not a lifestyle. The folks that I have had/have the dubious pleasure of knowing are those that Chas describe above.
The people that I have known usually start out seeming like they are as sweet as candy (like Dooj said). But the veneer does fall away when they are challenged. Then the demeanor becomes very aggressive and whoever had the "audacity" to challenge their authoritay is going to get a face melting and be humiliated (publically if possible) and the abuser will bring it back onto them every chance they get.
The crazy part is the other person was horribly deceived by the P/A person. They portrayed such an approachable, cuddly face but they were just saccarine...not real sugar. People that actually live with these sick individuals are subjected to incredible mental abuse that is very hard to overcome. They are "taught" by these people that they are always at fault for everything that the P/A person finds unpleasant. This can be anything from a righteously dirty kitchen to the room temperature. They are as Chas said emotionally burned daily and sometimes continually for long periods of time, especially with the "silent treatment". It is really sad.
Arrr...I could go on for days...and have...I have been married to one of these people and I can tell you the "passive" part goes away as they become more familiar with an individuals "buttons". But this thread is about the original package, the Passive Aggressive person.
Under certain conditions, passive-aggression can be a healthy, highly adaptive response. Call it subtlety, tact, humor, restraint, altruism or even courage it is also passive-aggression. Humor or diplomacy, for example, can defuse a highly volatile situation and prevent the dropping of bombs, real or metaphorical. More dramatic cases of passive-aggression are the "nonviolent" protests led by Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr.
For anyone who is oppressed, truly deprived of power and with no other means of resistance, nonviolent protest is one way to get feelings and demands known: the lone Chinese student stalwartly defying a tank moving on him in Tiananmen Square is now a universal symbol of such defiance. To assert oneself, without showing inflammatory anger, is, in this case, healthy.
There is a clear distinction between healthy and neurotically played-out passive-aggression. It's the difference between tact and avoidance, humor and obnoxiousness, civil disobedience and plain obstructionism. You know it when you see it in action. A healthy person uses passive-aggression to help him achieve his goals. Neurotic passive-aggression clouds issues and gets you nowhere.
To some degree, passive-aggression describes everyone, normal as well as dysfunctional men and women. Its universality may be compared to a commonly understood feeling like anxiety. It may be an unpleasant emotion, but anxiety serves a psychological function necessary for survival: it signals us to take action when faced with impending danger, motivating us, hopefully, to perform at our best to get us out of the scrape and to a better state....
Well there must be a warehouse somewhere full of cards that could never make a single deck because all the "Kings of Hearts" are out there in the world somewhere impersonating humans. Gives new meaning to "One shy of a full deck" :blink:
So glad I found one...I threw 'em back...didn't quite dodge the bullet...but didn't die either...I call that a shaky win!
Well there must be a warehouse somewhere full of cards that could never make a single deck because all the "Kings of Hearts" are out there in the world somewhere impersonating humans. Gives new meaning to "One shy of a full deck" :blink:
So glad I found one...I threw 'em back...didn't quite dodge the bullet...but didn't die either...I call that a shaky win!
Holy Cow! Lot's of VERY intriguing responses... btw, in case anyone didn't pick up on it, I too had a spouse that was VERY passive/aggressive... I would characterize my situation as a shaky win... except for the fact that I haven't heard my daughter's voice in more than two years (she's 17 now)...
Holy Cow! Lot's of VERY intriguing responses... btw, in case anyone didn't pick up on it, I too had a spouse that was VERY passive/aggressive... I would characterize my situation as a shaky win... except for the fact that I haven't heard my daughter's voice in more than two years (she's 17 now)...
I can empathize with that loss of child thing Rocky...I lost all five. It was the biggest trick that has ever been played...Never trust a P/A person...they never tell the entire truth.
I can empathize with that loss of child thing Rocky...I lost all five. It was the biggest trick that has ever been played...Never trust a P/A person...they never tell the entire truth
I believe they have elevated "bait and switch" to an art form.
I can empathize with that loss of child thing Rocky...I lost all five. It was the biggest trick that has ever been played...Never trust a P/A person...they never tell the entire truth.
I think they're not even sure of the truth...
They apparently know what they don't want to do to get what they do want.. and they seem to want to use you to to do it all for them - as long as you do it their way, on their time table.
Hmmmmm I could've posted this in "About the Way."
Really, I see how it can be a healthy thing, but when it becomes a lifestyle that is used to manipulate people - it's seems to aid in a co-dependant relationship.
Customer, standing next to the "no, we do not work on tube televisions. we only work on televisions manufactured after 1970"
So you work on old tube t.v.'s?
Me:
NO. They are too old.
Customer:
Well, it's just a little problem. It keeps setting off the smoke detector in the apartment. Probably would take ten minutes for you to repair it..
Me:
No, I don't repair them. I can't get the parts, besides, they are too old to be worth the cost of me even LOOKING at them..
Customer:
Well, I inherited this one from my great aunt Lois. Did I tell you, it has been in the family for over fifty years? Uncle Donald used to fix it once a month. It just took a tube or two..
Me:
No, I don't repair old tube televisions. They don't make the tubes for them any more. If it is fifty years old, could I suggest that you donate it to the local museum??
Customer..
No no no. Not without it working properly.. besides, you could write off the repair on your taxes as a form of public contribution. You DO have somebody do your taxes, do you not?
I think we all have to be passive agressive if we work and play in this world.
I have a relative, who is very passive /a she will start a conversation she knows your sensitive about just to watch ya be uncomfortable.. in a very nice way so nice so very nice I want her to go far far away from me.
and it never ends, and it is always personal crap. that hurts.
i was so hot the other day the a/c on the car had broke. so she calls me up and says I just picked some tomatoes for you i say ok she says well im going out i will see you in a little while.
she never shows up. so few days later i go to her house and it was hot out and she "well that would be such a pretty shirt you know the colors are nice but it must wrinkle quick".
now if somone said this one time and was not so mean and able to hurt others I would say i know it sure is hot out to day .. but not her i just say nothing and wait for it to get worse.
so i metion the tomatoes.
guess what oh! i just cooked them . i hate her now. i said i thought you were coming over to bring them she brings up the fact she only went out for minute... ok on and on im ready to leave now and her sweet husband goes to the garden and picks some more for me.. i go out and came back in to get a bag and what does she say
ooo oo like im rolling in crap there is a spot on your shirt there look at that... i had just picked tomatoes from a garden!
ok i cant stand her and just left.
it is constant with her . but she is the so nice and always nice why does no one have aonversation with her unless it is about what went wrong with somone eles today?
I can empathize with that loss of child thing Rocky...I lost all five. It was the biggest trick that has ever been played...Never trust a P/A person...they never tell the entire truth.
I cannot even imagine the pain that must have caused you. I'm sooooooo sorry.
Yeah, and then there's the kind of upbringing they had that may have taught them that sort of coping method.
I knew a person (well, sort of, apparently not all that well) who spent her whole life in P.A. mode. I'm pretty sure she wasn't even aware of it. It was most likely a defense mechanism learned at a very early age. She got pretty adept at it too.
It was decades before I ever caught on, and by then it was too late.
Yeah, and then there's the kind of upbringing they had that may have taught them that sort of coping method.
I knew a person (well, sort of, apparently not all that well) who spent her whole life in P.A. mode. I'm pretty sure she wasn't even aware of it. It was most likely a defense mechanism learned at a very early age. She got pretty adept at it too.
It was decades before I ever caught on, and by then it was too late.
O.K., so I'm not that bright...
In many cases, I'd bet that is very much what is going on.
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Rocky
Well, I can understand that person's viewpoint, and how it would seem to be the "utmost in cowardice" but I believe that label is way too simplistic. And in being too simplistic, it's ultimately misleading, IMO.
I had some pretty intense life experiences that brought passive-aggresive behavior to my awareness in the early to mid 1990s. That conduct was being employed by someone VERY important to me (not myself) at the time, someone from whom it took a great deal of effort and too much money and heartache before I was able to extricate myself therefrom. And having been subject to that person's coping method (of choice?), I probably would have said the same thing (that it's the ultimate in cowardice) during the nearly two year period marked by the litigation that actually just began the extrication process.
In the years since, I have become acutely aware of when I am inclined, tempted, or actually use such tactics to cope with a wide variety of situations.
IF emotional/psychological defense mechanisms were employed (by humans in general) exclusively (or even just primarily) as a result of conscious choice/decisions, it might be fair to label it as cowardice. But that really is NOT the case.
I understand that defense mechanisms are often employed by any given human without giving the matter even the smallest amount of thought. And because it's likely that the person picked up the "habit" as a child, I would hesitate to make any conclusion that would suggest it is done with any kind of overt intent.
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Ham
I tend to err in this direction.. but not to the extent of showing up late at meetings, putting off obligations, etc..
but under normal circumstances, I'll tell someone "no" several times politely before REALLY ignoring them..
:)
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George Aar
I find it's more often the person who is physically at a disadvantage who employs the technique mostly out of a defensive strategy (consciously or not).
Specifically, I find women (almost universally) tend towards the passive/aggressive technique almost as their default mode.
Maybe it's just my perception? Maybe...
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Ham
sometimes it is the opposite. Sometimes, the big guy just doesn't have it in his heart and conscience to beat the snot out of some poor over-demanding slob..
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doojable
Well George, I've seen this behaviour (too often!) in both men and women. It's annoying no matter who does it.
I think it's not so much physical advantage that plays a role - but I definitely think it has a lot to do with wanting to have control and power.
There's something else too, though. By not just saying, "No," right off the bat, the passive/aggressive can still appear to be the "nice" person. Of course, this veneer all disintegrates as soon as they worn out their excuses.
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GarthP2000
I would! ... have the heart, that is.
;)
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ChasUFarley
My manager has classic P/A behavior disorder - I often catch her in lies and have listened to her manipulate and then just emotionally burn people. I don't put up with it but then I've always functioned more like a man emotionally. I don't play games - I tell it like it is. If I'm mad at you - I say it right out, "I'm mad at you for talking down to me." This woman would rather sulk, lie, play headgames, blame others - it's never HER fault and I've never heard her apologize (and mean it).
Life is too short to spend time with these sorts of people. It's just NOT worth the hassel.
Gawd, the stories I could tell you... but time doesn't allow it today...
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Eyesopen
You're a tease Chas!
Actually I've known several people who are like this continually. Both men and women. I realize that some folks are just the average smo that will use a P/A behavior as a defense mechanism. It's not a lifestyle. The folks that I have had/have the dubious pleasure of knowing are those that Chas describe above.
The people that I have known usually start out seeming like they are as sweet as candy (like Dooj said). But the veneer does fall away when they are challenged. Then the demeanor becomes very aggressive and whoever had the "audacity" to challenge their authoritay is going to get a face melting and be humiliated (publically if possible) and the abuser will bring it back onto them every chance they get.
The crazy part is the other person was horribly deceived by the P/A person. They portrayed such an approachable, cuddly face but they were just saccarine...not real sugar. People that actually live with these sick individuals are subjected to incredible mental abuse that is very hard to overcome. They are "taught" by these people that they are always at fault for everything that the P/A person finds unpleasant. This can be anything from a righteously dirty kitchen to the room temperature. They are as Chas said emotionally burned daily and sometimes continually for long periods of time, especially with the "silent treatment". It is really sad.
Arrr...I could go on for days...and have...I have been married to one of these people and I can tell you the "passive" part goes away as they become more familiar with an individuals "buttons". But this thread is about the original package, the Passive Aggressive person.
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Lizzy
Living With the Passive-Aggressive Man
By Scott Wetzler
a snippet
Under certain conditions, passive-aggression can be a healthy, highly adaptive response. Call it subtlety, tact, humor, restraint, altruism or even courage it is also passive-aggression. Humor or diplomacy, for example, can defuse a highly volatile situation and prevent the dropping of bombs, real or metaphorical. More dramatic cases of passive-aggression are the "nonviolent" protests led by Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr.
For anyone who is oppressed, truly deprived of power and with no other means of resistance, nonviolent protest is one way to get feelings and demands known: the lone Chinese student stalwartly defying a tank moving on him in Tiananmen Square is now a universal symbol of such defiance. To assert oneself, without showing inflammatory anger, is, in this case, healthy.
There is a clear distinction between healthy and neurotically played-out passive-aggression. It's the difference between tact and avoidance, humor and obnoxiousness, civil disobedience and plain obstructionism. You know it when you see it in action. A healthy person uses passive-aggression to help him achieve his goals. Neurotic passive-aggression clouds issues and gets you nowhere.
To some degree, passive-aggression describes everyone, normal as well as dysfunctional men and women. Its universality may be compared to a commonly understood feeling like anxiety. It may be an unpleasant emotion, but anxiety serves a psychological function necessary for survival: it signals us to take action when faced with impending danger, motivating us, hopefully, to perform at our best to get us out of the scrape and to a better state....
http://www.simonsays.com/content/book.cfm?...4304&agid=2
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Eyesopen
Well there must be a warehouse somewhere full of cards that could never make a single deck because all the "Kings of Hearts" are out there in the world somewhere impersonating humans. Gives new meaning to "One shy of a full deck" :blink:
So glad I found one...I threw 'em back...didn't quite dodge the bullet...but didn't die either...I call that a shaky win!
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Rocky
Holy Cow! Lot's of VERY intriguing responses... btw, in case anyone didn't pick up on it, I too had a spouse that was VERY passive/aggressive... I would characterize my situation as a shaky win... except for the fact that I haven't heard my daughter's voice in more than two years (she's 17 now)...
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Eyesopen
I can empathize with that loss of child thing Rocky...I lost all five. It was the biggest trick that has ever been played...Never trust a P/A person...they never tell the entire truth.
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polar bear
Hammy-You crack me up.
I've never known anyone like that. Sorry I've gotta go, I'm late for a meeting, dammit.
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krys
I believe they have elevated "bait and switch" to an art form.
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doojable
I think they're not even sure of the truth...
They apparently know what they don't want to do to get what they do want.. and they seem to want to use you to to do it all for them - as long as you do it their way, on their time table.
Hmmmmm I could've posted this in "About the Way."
Really, I see how it can be a healthy thing, but when it becomes a lifestyle that is used to manipulate people - it's seems to aid in a co-dependant relationship.
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Ham
Sometimes you just can't win..
Customer, standing next to the "no, we do not work on tube televisions. we only work on televisions manufactured after 1970"
So you work on old tube t.v.'s?
Me:
NO. They are too old.
Customer:
Well, it's just a little problem. It keeps setting off the smoke detector in the apartment. Probably would take ten minutes for you to repair it..
Me:
No, I don't repair them. I can't get the parts, besides, they are too old to be worth the cost of me even LOOKING at them..
Customer:
Well, I inherited this one from my great aunt Lois. Did I tell you, it has been in the family for over fifty years? Uncle Donald used to fix it once a month. It just took a tube or two..
Me:
No, I don't repair old tube televisions. They don't make the tubes for them any more. If it is fifty years old, could I suggest that you donate it to the local museum??
Customer..
No no no. Not without it working properly.. besides, you could write off the repair on your taxes as a form of public contribution. You DO have somebody do your taxes, do you not?
me:
"gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaghhhhhhh!!???!!!!"
So.. you try the alternative.
Customer, standing next to the "we don't repair televisions made before 1970".
I hear you repair old televisions..
Me:
SURRRRRRRE. Bring it on in!
later:
"well, it will cost you $985.00. (and please just take it and just go away..)
Customer:
"Hmm. Well, let's go for it.."
Me.
"Gaaaaaasaaaaaaaaghhhhhhhhhhhhh"
This dialog is pretty close to the facts..
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doojable
Here's a good one Ham...
Friend: Can you pick up my kids after school? I'm afraid that I'll miss them because of an appointment I'll be finishing up.
Me: Sure, but I need you to pick them up by 3:30 (1/2 hour later than school lets out.) That's the time we need to leave for ballet.
Friend: Oh, well can you keep them at the park?
Me: No - as I said, we need to leave right away...
Friend: Well, I was just thinking...it's such a pretty day...
Me: On any other pretty day, it would be fine, but not today.
Friend: I was just thinking...
Me: You know, maybe I'm not the right person to do this today. If you really want them at the park, then perhaps another person...
Friend: NO! I'll just come to your house...(sighs heavily...)
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Ham
You know, for SOME people, this should carry some real criminal penalties..
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doojable
For some people, it's a miracle.
:biglaugh: 
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pond
I think we all have to be passive agressive if we work and play in this world.
I have a relative, who is very passive /a she will start a conversation she knows your sensitive about just to watch ya be uncomfortable.. in a very nice way so nice so very nice I want her to go far far away from me.
and it never ends, and it is always personal crap. that hurts.
i was so hot the other day the a/c on the car had broke. so she calls me up and says I just picked some tomatoes for you i say ok she says well im going out i will see you in a little while.
she never shows up. so few days later i go to her house and it was hot out and she "well that would be such a pretty shirt you know the colors are nice but it must wrinkle quick".
now if somone said this one time and was not so mean and able to hurt others I would say i know it sure is hot out to day .. but not her i just say nothing and wait for it to get worse.
so i metion the tomatoes.
guess what oh! i just cooked them . i hate her now. i said i thought you were coming over to bring them she brings up the fact she only went out for minute... ok on and on im ready to leave now and her sweet husband goes to the garden and picks some more for me.. i go out and came back in to get a bag and what does she say
ooo oo like im rolling in crap there is a spot on your shirt there look at that... i had just picked tomatoes from a garden!
ok i cant stand her and just left.
it is constant with her . but she is the so nice and always nice why does no one have aonversation with her unless it is about what went wrong with somone eles today?
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Rocky
I cannot even imagine the pain that must have caused you. I'm sooooooo sorry.
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templelady
THey are called coping mechanisms for a reason.
Passive agressive is just one of many
Perhaps the probelm isn't always the person who is passive agressive but the problem of the persons who make this coping mechanism necessary???
The mote in thy brothers eye..........
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George Aar
Yeah, and then there's the kind of upbringing they had that may have taught them that sort of coping method.
I knew a person (well, sort of, apparently not all that well) who spent her whole life in P.A. mode. I'm pretty sure she wasn't even aware of it. It was most likely a defense mechanism learned at a very early age. She got pretty adept at it too.
It was decades before I ever caught on, and by then it was too late.
O.K., so I'm not that bright...
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Rocky
In many cases, I'd bet that is very much what is going on.
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