This sounds like usual life. She loves me she loves me not. Sometimes we trade the witch for the Devil in partners but I hope all works out for you. You weren't asking for advice per se but wanting to validate your feelings about why you feel good about being wrong??? That tells me you aren't settled in your mind about your personal life yet I'm no psychologist.
So in short.. to thy own self be true. But it sounds like you're doing something you yourself don't approve of.
The thing about leaving TWI is that we discover we can have freedom. For how bad TWI was when you were in, your newfound freedom is shocking to you and you're not sure if you're doing the right thing or not. Don't worry about what others think so much, and don't expect anyone here or elsewhere to give you the "correct" answer to your problems and questions. You are in control of your life now and you have to make those decisions for yourself.
However, I will give you a piece of advice, take it or leave it. You enjoyed having sex with a woman you just met. That's called lust, not love. TWI forced us to deny having any emotions whatsoever and we were supposed to be Z4J (Zombies 4 Jesus), and now you're having to catch up on dealing with emotions after all of those years. Don't make plans to move in with this woman or become too infatuated with her. Take it slow and give it time. If you want to keep sleeping with her after you broke up with your girlfriend, have fun. Nobody here can tell you what to do or not. Just be careful and try to balance your emotions with your logical mind.
Been there, living a life of quiet desperation. No arguments or fights, but no passion or affection either. We lived a benign brother and sister relationship for years.
One day he left me and it felt wrong and right at the same time. Wrong because of all the time we invested in a healthy "surface" relationship; right because I could breathe again. It was confusing.
Then I met someone who was also starving for validation, affection, fun, and feeling quite relaxed being able to express emotion. Whever this relationship goes, my life will never be the same.
It is necessessary to understand the good about ourselves and to acknowledge what we need to live a healthy life. Just take it slow...there is plenty of time.
In TWI many of us got used to maneuvering through a mine field. At the end of the day we were just glad we didn't get blown up. It didn't occur to us that we could leave the mine field.
We got used to 'taking it' and trying to pull some meagre satisfaction out of life, just glad were weren't in some current horror.
Maybe you are now beginning to see that you can find a life outside of the minefields, and that it is possible to find more than meagre satisfaction in between blow ups, that there is a whole wide world of possibilities.
You don't have to ignore and put up with the negatives and rewind the meager positives through your mind in an endless loop. You can move forward, find a balance, pick and choose--jobs, friends, living arrangements, thoughts, actions.
I would say, think things through and make conscious decisions--you own them.
Nandon - I didn't see where you made any vows with your G/F. recently I performed a Christian Hindu marriage ceremony. (The bride grew up as a Hindu and always wanted a hindi wedding) Near the end of the ceremony I walked around the couple with a gold three fold cord and tied the cord together with a wedding knot. In the hindu tradition these are the ties that bind. I real wedding sets those vows I believe up before God, A wedding is more than just a legal thing but something that God setup for one man and one woman.
You refer to the gal as your G/F and not as your wife. she says your not married so I'd say if you want to move on go ahead, your free. Do what is best for your life.
As to leaving the TWI, THANK GOD!!! Now you are truly free
nandon, you're still formulating your moral center, just as we all are one one level or another. We begin with a foundation, and refine it as we go along. I agree that escaping a cult is a major "freeing" moment, but I'd hardly call your situation "truly free." You're putting yourself out there because you're unsure, and in my mind, you should be unsure. Never heard the phrase "trading the witch for the devil" but it's a clever one. We also trade one form of bondage for another. "Liberty" is not license.
You used the very good word "intimacy" to mean sexual intimacy, but in my view, a lasting monogamous relationship has to be built on intimacy in the broader range of our beings. The song says "breaking up is hard to do," which is true, but even harder than breaking up is growing up. As another person wrote, there is plenty of time, and yet, the longer we delay growing up, the more heartache we will suffer, and the more we'll spread it around.
As one who is painfully aware at 54 that growing up is a lifelong process, I wish you well in your search for authenticity and wholeness.
She left to NY for all of november, she went to vegas twice, and she went to cancun for a week, all without me.
If it's any consolation, sounds like this woman either tried to or did hook up long before you did. Telling her what you did will only open the discussion up to a lot of nastiness. Just move out and move on. Nice to know you still have your conscience, though!
shaz- i don't think she has been having sex with anyone else. But if I found out she was, I'd actually be happy. At least there would be nothing wrong with her.
dan- feeling free and being free aren't the same. i just feel it right now.
out there- yup, no vows. I refuse to seriously consider marriage until im at least 30,,, now im thinking 35.
pond- I was just talking to someone about this, they had a different opinion. They said during and after sex is where you are most connected and vulnerable and you need sex in a relationship to get through tough times. Not thats its the only thing, but a relationship is like baking, if you screw up one ingrediant, it doesn't work...
bramble- I think that when I told my current G/F i loved her. I meant it, i basically felt since I said it, I could never deviate from her. Sort of that idiotic loyalty thing I picked up in TWI (stick w/ the ministry that taught you the word type of stuff). So I expected she felt the same way, now she does love me. But our expectations are just at different levels I guess.
Rejoyce- maybe its comfort or convienance that makes us want to deny the reality of our situations. Thanks for sharing, and yeah, i got time.
Mister P-Mosh- Thing is i haven't been involved with TWI for 6 years. But me doing what I did this weekend really made me feel like I have gotten over all the crap. And now I have a free feeling. I feel more open with people, more ready to take on projects at work... it's really wierd.
cman- I do think I wronged my girl. But i don't feel bad about it. I don't think I was wrong for being wrong. I do feel bad though. I never wanted this... but on the other hand I can't control what my g/f wants. I have no control over her.
doojable- what I want? this is a real general list.
1. Be happy
2. Be healthy
3. Love others
4. Do what I can to help others enjoy being around me.
I want my g/f to be happy. and if thats with me, then i hope we can work it out, if its not with me, then to bad, and the same goes for me.
sudo- yeah i really don't know if i can ask for advice. I just kinda wanted to say it, and see what people's general thoughts were. people on this forum are pretty smart imo. we all have similar backrounds too. I actually approve of what I have done, but it just wasn't my first option.
waysider- ya, i don't have any answers either, but thanks for saying that. makes me feel like i'm normal. ya, and mid-life crisis (bad choice of words) or not, it just feels wierd, and good.
how that every sexual partner i have had in life (a total of 5) has been a negative experiance for me
i will add to this as i think more.
thanks for the replys
thanks for the pm's
ps..
it felt so good to be honest, as much as it hurt her/us.
no matter what happens from now, i know that I am not a liar. I could not keep anything from her. I couldn't keep the truth from her. The truth about my pain and my actions
the last 2 years we've been intamate less than 12 times.
She left to NY for all of november, she went to vegas twice, and she went to cancun for a week, all without me. She said "we're not married".
We are good, no arguments.
Just my two cents here, but this does not describe a healthy relationship. I am glad you are now trying to work it out, and seeing a counselor, and that you didn't have to leave feeling like you lied to your g/f. All I can say is, don't settle. Don't settle for less than you want or less than you need. Ultimately you will not be happy, and therefore she will not be happy either. Try very hard to look at her with new eyes and see clearly if she loves you and is willing to make a genuine effort to make things right between you. If she isn't, you cannot make up the difference. It definately takes two to make it all work.
I don't think it is a TWI thing to feel badly about breaking a commitment, whether legal (marriage) or verbal (love, verbal contracts, etc.). Not breaking those commitments (within sound reason) is a good way to live a respectful and respected life. I'm not coming down on you...just saying.
I think the reason you felt like you had finally "left" TWI was because you must have felt trapped in the relationship for whatever reason the same way many of us felt trapped in TWI. The difference is in TWI there wasn't a welcome atmosphere to express what you really thought and felt about life, about yourself, about others, about DA ministry, etc. without the impending reproof, correction, eternal consiquences and so on. So we spoke wayspeak, the pary line, and quoted verses to eachother for all of life's problems. For that reason many of us broke ties the simplest ways possible. Perhaps some of us were already breaking out, living a non-twi life, "sleeping around" if you will, before we actually left. I know I was. Many of us already had one foot out the door. Leaving felt good, great at times, but for some it also came with moments of condemnation and uncertainty.
OTOH, in most, not all but most, relationships communication is a matter of choice. (OK it is in all , but the consiquences or percieved consiquences vary). That is what will make or break a relationship and what will make the difference between a good relationship or break-up and an empty relationship or painful break-up, including affairs. This is why counsiling is good at times. It gets people talking. It gets stuff out on the table.
In your case, as it is with many people, it takes tasting what you were missing what you actually wanted but were not getting and were not discussing, in order to get to the place where you guys can talk about it openly and deal with it, whatever the outcome may be.
Last peice of advise and hopefully the counciling will deal with this. Don't get the counciling just to repair the relationship. You're not married. Be honest about what you want and need from it and if she is honestly not the person to provide that or the person you want to provide that for you anymore, then move on. If she is then great! Which ever way it goes move on HONESTLY whether that is with eachother or apart. That is the only loving way to deal with people you love.
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waysider
Nandon
Wish I had some answers for you.
I don't.
I'm pretty sure, though, that what you are describing is not what most people would call a "mid-life crisis".
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Sudo
Nandon,
This sounds like usual life. She loves me she loves me not. Sometimes we trade the witch for the Devil in partners but I hope all works out for you. You weren't asking for advice per se but wanting to validate your feelings about why you feel good about being wrong??? That tells me you aren't settled in your mind about your personal life yet I'm no psychologist.
So in short.. to thy own self be true. But it sounds like you're doing something you yourself don't approve of.
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doojable
Nandon - ask yourself what you want in life, what your priorities are...
Live your life in such a manner that you can look yourself in the mirror. If you believe in God, then consider His ways as well.
Kinda simple advice, but you may have forgotten that you no longer need to ask leadership for permission to live and breathe.
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cman
Just sounds like freedom to me.
A little scary sometimes.
And new things and possibilities with someone who can share love.
That, my friend, is worth the chance of developing a new relationship.
I think it only feels wrong because you think you wronged your G/F.
I don't know if you have or not, but ammends can be made without staying with her.
The only mind you can control is yours.
Take good care of it.
My 2 cents worth and not saying what to do.
But certainly familiar with those feelings you described.
It doesn't mean you are wrong because you feel wrong.
Sounds more like it feels right to you.
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Mister P-Mosh
nandon,
The thing about leaving TWI is that we discover we can have freedom. For how bad TWI was when you were in, your newfound freedom is shocking to you and you're not sure if you're doing the right thing or not. Don't worry about what others think so much, and don't expect anyone here or elsewhere to give you the "correct" answer to your problems and questions. You are in control of your life now and you have to make those decisions for yourself.
However, I will give you a piece of advice, take it or leave it. You enjoyed having sex with a woman you just met. That's called lust, not love. TWI forced us to deny having any emotions whatsoever and we were supposed to be Z4J (Zombies 4 Jesus), and now you're having to catch up on dealing with emotions after all of those years. Don't make plans to move in with this woman or become too infatuated with her. Take it slow and give it time. If you want to keep sleeping with her after you broke up with your girlfriend, have fun. Nobody here can tell you what to do or not. Just be careful and try to balance your emotions with your logical mind.
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Rejoice
Been there, living a life of quiet desperation. No arguments or fights, but no passion or affection either. We lived a benign brother and sister relationship for years.
One day he left me and it felt wrong and right at the same time. Wrong because of all the time we invested in a healthy "surface" relationship; right because I could breathe again. It was confusing.
Then I met someone who was also starving for validation, affection, fun, and feeling quite relaxed being able to express emotion. Whever this relationship goes, my life will never be the same.
It is necessessary to understand the good about ourselves and to acknowledge what we need to live a healthy life. Just take it slow...there is plenty of time.
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Bramble
In TWI many of us got used to maneuvering through a mine field. At the end of the day we were just glad we didn't get blown up. It didn't occur to us that we could leave the mine field.
We got used to 'taking it' and trying to pull some meagre satisfaction out of life, just glad were weren't in some current horror.
Maybe you are now beginning to see that you can find a life outside of the minefields, and that it is possible to find more than meagre satisfaction in between blow ups, that there is a whole wide world of possibilities.
You don't have to ignore and put up with the negatives and rewind the meager positives through your mind in an endless loop. You can move forward, find a balance, pick and choose--jobs, friends, living arrangements, thoughts, actions.
I would say, think things through and make conscious decisions--you own them.
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pond
sex can be (word cant describe).
and when your not getting any affection for awhile it is even better!
Yet
sex isnt what endures most relationships.
makes for a good run for a couple of years at best and can stay good only if other parts of life can be incorporated.
my ex husband married his affair and their marriage lasted decades.
so to say it wont last is not always right.
do take your time have lots of sex , if you think that is right for you, and find out after awhile what it all means .
darn if I know!
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Out There
Nandon - I didn't see where you made any vows with your G/F. recently I performed a Christian Hindu marriage ceremony. (The bride grew up as a Hindu and always wanted a hindi wedding) Near the end of the ceremony I walked around the couple with a gold three fold cord and tied the cord together with a wedding knot. In the hindu tradition these are the ties that bind. I real wedding sets those vows I believe up before God, A wedding is more than just a legal thing but something that God setup for one man and one woman.
You refer to the gal as your G/F and not as your wife. she says your not married so I'd say if you want to move on go ahead, your free. Do what is best for your life.
As to leaving the TWI, THANK GOD!!! Now you are truly free
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anotherDan
He doesn't sound truly free to me.
nandon, you're still formulating your moral center, just as we all are one one level or another. We begin with a foundation, and refine it as we go along. I agree that escaping a cult is a major "freeing" moment, but I'd hardly call your situation "truly free." You're putting yourself out there because you're unsure, and in my mind, you should be unsure. Never heard the phrase "trading the witch for the devil" but it's a clever one. We also trade one form of bondage for another. "Liberty" is not license.
You used the very good word "intimacy" to mean sexual intimacy, but in my view, a lasting monogamous relationship has to be built on intimacy in the broader range of our beings. The song says "breaking up is hard to do," which is true, but even harder than breaking up is growing up. As another person wrote, there is plenty of time, and yet, the longer we delay growing up, the more heartache we will suffer, and the more we'll spread it around.
As one who is painfully aware at 54 that growing up is a lifelong process, I wish you well in your search for authenticity and wholeness.
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Out There
Sorry amazindan I stand corrected. It's really only Jesus Christ that can make us truly free
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shazdancer
Hey nandon,
If it's any consolation, sounds like this woman either tried to or did hook up long before you did. Telling her what you did will only open the discussion up to a lot of nastiness. Just move out and move on. Nice to know you still have your conscience, though!
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nandon
shaz- i don't think she has been having sex with anyone else. But if I found out she was, I'd actually be happy. At least there would be nothing wrong with her.
dan- feeling free and being free aren't the same. i just feel it right now.
out there- yup, no vows. I refuse to seriously consider marriage until im at least 30,,, now im thinking 35.
pond- I was just talking to someone about this, they had a different opinion. They said during and after sex is where you are most connected and vulnerable and you need sex in a relationship to get through tough times. Not thats its the only thing, but a relationship is like baking, if you screw up one ingrediant, it doesn't work...
bramble- I think that when I told my current G/F i loved her. I meant it, i basically felt since I said it, I could never deviate from her. Sort of that idiotic loyalty thing I picked up in TWI (stick w/ the ministry that taught you the word type of stuff). So I expected she felt the same way, now she does love me. But our expectations are just at different levels I guess.
Rejoyce- maybe its comfort or convienance that makes us want to deny the reality of our situations. Thanks for sharing, and yeah, i got time.
Mister P-Mosh- Thing is i haven't been involved with TWI for 6 years. But me doing what I did this weekend really made me feel like I have gotten over all the crap. And now I have a free feeling. I feel more open with people, more ready to take on projects at work... it's really wierd.
cman- I do think I wronged my girl. But i don't feel bad about it. I don't think I was wrong for being wrong. I do feel bad though. I never wanted this... but on the other hand I can't control what my g/f wants. I have no control over her.
doojable- what I want? this is a real general list.
1. Be happy
2. Be healthy
3. Love others
4. Do what I can to help others enjoy being around me.
I want my g/f to be happy. and if thats with me, then i hope we can work it out, if its not with me, then to bad, and the same goes for me.
sudo- yeah i really don't know if i can ask for advice. I just kinda wanted to say it, and see what people's general thoughts were. people on this forum are pretty smart imo. we all have similar backrounds too. I actually approve of what I have done, but it just wasn't my first option.
waysider- ya, i don't have any answers either, but thanks for saying that. makes me feel like i'm normal. ya, and mid-life crisis (bad choice of words) or not, it just feels wierd, and good.
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coolchef
nandon
the only advice i can impart with you is to follow your heart
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nandon
i told my g/f everything
we are now trying to work things out
we are seeing a counsiler
i am amazed at:
how much hurt i have caused
how hurt i was
how much i wanted her to find out
how that every sexual partner i have had in life (a total of 5) has been a negative experiance for me
i will add to this as i think more.
thanks for the replys
thanks for the pm's
ps..
it felt so good to be honest, as much as it hurt her/us.
no matter what happens from now, i know that I am not a liar. I could not keep anything from her. I couldn't keep the truth from her. The truth about my pain and my actions
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TheHighWay
Just my two cents here, but this does not describe a healthy relationship. I am glad you are now trying to work it out, and seeing a counselor, and that you didn't have to leave feeling like you lied to your g/f. All I can say is, don't settle. Don't settle for less than you want or less than you need. Ultimately you will not be happy, and therefore she will not be happy either. Try very hard to look at her with new eyes and see clearly if she loves you and is willing to make a genuine effort to make things right between you. If she isn't, you cannot make up the difference. It definately takes two to make it all work.
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nandon
had our first counsiling session today.
it went well. we both got a chance to get some stuff out.
I really think that we have got a good chance to work this out.
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Bramble
Sounds very encouraging, nandon.
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excathedra
i wish you all good ((((((((( nandon )))))))))
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Belle
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lindyhopper
Glad you are trying to work things out Nandon.
My two bits...
I don't think it is a TWI thing to feel badly about breaking a commitment, whether legal (marriage) or verbal (love, verbal contracts, etc.). Not breaking those commitments (within sound reason) is a good way to live a respectful and respected life. I'm not coming down on you...just saying.
I think the reason you felt like you had finally "left" TWI was because you must have felt trapped in the relationship for whatever reason the same way many of us felt trapped in TWI. The difference is in TWI there wasn't a welcome atmosphere to express what you really thought and felt about life, about yourself, about others, about DA ministry, etc. without the impending reproof, correction, eternal consiquences and so on. So we spoke wayspeak, the pary line, and quoted verses to eachother for all of life's problems. For that reason many of us broke ties the simplest ways possible. Perhaps some of us were already breaking out, living a non-twi life, "sleeping around" if you will, before we actually left. I know I was. Many of us already had one foot out the door. Leaving felt good, great at times, but for some it also came with moments of condemnation and uncertainty.
OTOH, in most, not all but most, relationships communication is a matter of choice. (OK it is in all , but the consiquences or percieved consiquences vary). That is what will make or break a relationship and what will make the difference between a good relationship or break-up and an empty relationship or painful break-up, including affairs. This is why counsiling is good at times. It gets people talking. It gets stuff out on the table.
In your case, as it is with many people, it takes tasting what you were missing what you actually wanted but were not getting and were not discussing, in order to get to the place where you guys can talk about it openly and deal with it, whatever the outcome may be.
Last peice of advise and hopefully the counciling will deal with this. Don't get the counciling just to repair the relationship. You're not married. Be honest about what you want and need from it and if she is honestly not the person to provide that or the person you want to provide that for you anymore, then move on. If she is then great! Which ever way it goes move on HONESTLY whether that is with eachother or apart. That is the only loving way to deal with people you love.
IMHO, of course.
Good luck.
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