Spiritual Abuse and Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

rascal · August 9, 2007

How could a minister..representatives for God to his people DO these things...so entirely destroy our self worth that we could not even look to God for help??

Shifra, my friend bow tells a horrible story about how she was thrown out of rome city with her teenaged son and both maliciously slandered.

It was heartbreaking the lies they told.

Eyesopen · August 9, 2007

It is this kind of hateful abuse that really just chaps my hide. If anyone were to have any true spiritual anger it would be because of this type of injury done to the members of the household, the children of God.

It just makes me sick and really P*()$@)*^%^&*! Off!

They did not tell me why they wanted me to go home...Rev. Pile said, "You know what you did." No I didn't....

Later I was told that I was possessed by then I didn't care what they said.

Rascal: You ask: "How could a minister..representatives for God to his people DO these things...so entirely destroy our self worth that we could not even look to God for help??"

That's easy, Romans 1 says that they have turned their backs on God, forgotten to thank Him and this leads to all sorts of bad stuff. Hurting and destroying people is not hard for them. They don't even break a sweat.

polar bear · August 9, 2007

Great thread-you it the Spot.

Wow I've been battling for so long in my mind with thinking about the many good things twi taught.

Nothing wrong with the Word, but how it is upheld.

What I see is the motive was wrong. VP was a hustler. You can see it clear as a bell now when you put these things together. Where was the fruit. The fruit coming from HQ was rotten, full of envy, biterness, hate. It eventually went down the tree and affected the good hearted ones.

I too was railroaded by twi for trying to speak up and do good.

The apple truly doesn't fall far the the tree and all that rot. And that tree was rotten. Remember Jesus cursing the fig tree. He used it in reference to the stench of the religion of that day. It was dead.

Loved the "holding the truth in unrighteousness" bit. It really makes sense.

JavaJane · August 10, 2007

I almost did. I decided instead, that I would go home to my natural man family...since they were all posessed to and await the physical death that I assumed would follow my spiritual death that I had been promised would happen if I returned to the town where there were no believers.

Could someone please explain to me what the f*** "spiritual death" meant?? I had this one used on me once, and I never got an explanation as to what the heck it meant!

It sounds really bad, though.

T-Bone · August 10, 2007

(((((((Another Spot)))))))

Words…thoughts fail me anytime I hear stories of abuse. I love what you said, "your experiences don't define you. Your response does." We live in a fallen world – I agree with your aunt – life isn't for sissies. The world can be a jungle – with fierce predators. I've heard the real turn on for the rapist is the feeling of power. I don't think predators are very powerful – they just seek prey who they perceive as less powerful than them. You have no idea how much this stuff just angers and disgusts me.…As parents of a child with special needs, Tonto and I often have to reign in our fears and worries with prayer, trust in God and stay alert and proactive for the safety and security of our daughter.

As I've followed this thread I've been thinking about a passage on spiritual abuse:

Revelation 2:1-7, 12-15 NASB

1"To the angel of the church in ⁽^A⁾Ephesus write: The One who holds ⁽^B⁾the seven stars in His right hand, the One who walks ⁽^C⁾among the seven golden lampstands, says this:

2'⁽^D⁾I know your deeds and your toil and perseverance, and that you cannot tolerate evil men, and you ⁽^E⁾put to the test those who call themselves ⁽^F⁾apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false;

3and you have perseverance and have endured ⁽^G⁾for My name's sake, and have not grown weary.

4'But I have this against you, that you have ⁽^H⁾left your first love.

5'Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and ⁽^I⁾repent and ⁽^J⁾do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your ⁽^K⁾lampstand out of its place--unless you repent.

6'Yet this you do have, that you hate the deeds of the ⁽^L⁾Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

7'⁽^M⁾He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches ⁽^N⁾To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of ⁽^O⁾the tree of life which is in the ⁽^P⁾Paradise of God.'

[skipping to verse 12…]

12"And to the angel of the church in ⁽^AF⁾Pergamum write: The One who has ⁽^AG⁾the sharp two-edged sword says this:

13'I know where you dwell, where ⁽^AH⁾Satan's throne is; and you hold fast My name, and did not deny ⁽^AI⁾My faith even in the days of Antipas, My ⁽^AJ⁾witness, My ⁽^AK⁾faithful one, who was killed among you, ⁽^AL⁾where Satan dwells.

14'But ⁽^AM⁾I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the ⁽^AN⁾teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, ⁽^AO⁾to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality.

15'So you also have some who in the same way hold the teaching of the ⁽^AP⁾Nicolaitans.

16'Therefore ⁽^AQ⁾repent; or else ⁽^AR⁾I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war against them with ⁽^AS⁾the sword of My mouth.

17'⁽^AT⁾He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches ⁽^AU⁾To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden ⁽^AV⁾manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a ⁽^AW⁾new name written on the stone ⁽^AX⁾which no one knows but he who receives it.'

~~

I found an interesting note in The MacArthur Study Bible on verse 6 "the deeds of the Nicolaitans":

"2:6 the deeds of the Nicolaitans. A problem in Pergamum also [vv. 12-15], this heresy was similar to the teaching of Balaam [verses 14,15]. Nicolas means "one who conquers the people." Irenaeus writes that Nicolas, who was made a deacon in Acts 6, was a false believer who later became apostate; but because of his credentials he was able to lead the church astray. And, like Balaam, he led the people into immorality and wickedness. The Nicolaitans, followers of Nicolas were involved in immorality and assaulted the church with sensual temptations. Clement of Alexander says, "They abandoned themselves to pleasure like goats, leading a life of self-indulgence." Their teaching perverted grace and replaced liberty with license."

End of excerpt

Now that got me thinking about another passage in II Peter:

II Peter 2:1-22 NASB

1But ⁽^A⁾false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be ⁽^B⁾false teachers ⁽^C⁾among you, who will ⁽^D⁾secretly introduce ⁽^E⁾destructive heresies, even ⁽^F⁾denying the ⁽^G⁾Master who ⁽^H⁾bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

2Many will follow their ⁽^I⁾sensuality, and because of them ⁽^J⁾the way of the truth will be ⁽^K⁾maligned;

3and in their ⁽^L⁾greed they will ⁽^M⁾exploit you with ⁽^N⁾false words; ⁽^O⁾their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

4For ⁽^P⁾if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and ⁽^Q⁾committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;

5and did not spare ⁽^R⁾the ancient world, but preserved ⁽^S⁾Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a ⁽^T⁾flood upon the world of the ungodly;

6and if He ⁽^U⁾condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an ⁽^V⁾example to those who would ⁽^W⁾live ungodly lives thereafter;

7and if He ⁽^X⁾rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the ⁽^Y⁾sensual conduct of ⁽^Z⁾unprincipled men

8(for by what he saw and heard that ⁽^AA⁾righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds),

9⁽^AB⁾then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the ⁽^AC⁾day of judgment,

10and especially those who ⁽^AD⁾indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and ⁽^AE⁾despise authority Daring, ⁽^AF⁾self-willed, they do not tremble when they ⁽^AG⁾revile angelic majesties,

11⁽^AH⁾whereas angels who are greater in might and power do not bring a reviling judgment against them before the Lord.

12But ⁽^AI⁾these, like unreasoning animals, ⁽^AJ⁾born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed,

13suffering wrong as ⁽^AK⁾the wages of doing wrong They count it a pleasure to ⁽^AL⁾revel in the ⁽^AM⁾daytime They are stains and blemishes, ⁽^AN⁾reveling in their ^[^a^]deceptions, as they ⁽^AO⁾carouse with you,

14having eyes full of adultery that never cease from sin, ⁽^AP⁾enticing ⁽^AQ⁾unstable souls, having a heart trained in ⁽^AR⁾greed, ⁽^AS⁾accursed children;

15forsaking ⁽^AT⁾the right way, they have gone astray, having followed ⁽^AU⁾the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved ⁽^AV⁾the wages of unrighteousness;

16but he received a rebuke for his own transgression, ⁽^AW⁾for a mute donkey, speaking with a voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet.

17These are ⁽^AX⁾springs without water and mists driven by a storm, ⁽^AY⁾for whom the black darkness has been reserved.

18For speaking out ⁽^AZ⁾arrogant words of ⁽^BA⁾vanity they ⁽^BB⁾entice by fleshly desires, by ⁽^BC⁾sensuality, those who barely ⁽^BD⁾escape from the ones who live in error,

19promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for ⁽^BE⁾by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved.

20For if, after they have ⁽^BF⁾escaped the defilements of the world by ⁽^BG⁾the knowledge of the ⁽^BH⁾Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again ⁽^BI⁾entangled in them and are overcome, ⁽^BJ⁾the last state has become worse for them than the first.

21⁽^BK⁾For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from ⁽^BL⁾the holy commandment ⁽^BM⁾handed on to them.

22It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "⁽^BN⁾A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

Sorry for the long post with all the Scripture Doctrinal[/b] forum] – but folks, after plodding through the effects of toxic doctrine...the destruction it brings to people's lives on the A Few Big Things I learned taking PFAL thread – and a few folks yammering about looking for the good in PFAL – I hate to burst anyone's bubble but – DO YOU SEE A PATTERN HERE?!?! Destructive doctrine and morally depraved teachers go hand in hand. I see it in Scripture – and experienced it first hand in TWI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We don't even have to think about the stuff done in secret - just think about his drunken, lewd lifestyle that defined him at any campus. And I have yet to hear a vpw-defender justify him showing the porn video on a regular basis or coming on to a sixteen year old girl at our Family Corps pajama party.

Edited August 10, 2007 by T-Bone

another spot · August 10, 2007

“The depths of despair...the complete loathing of self...the utter separation from God and all whom I loved...it was the deepest and most blackest of despair...a bleakness that defies description…”—Rascal

Which is why in my opinion spiritual abuse is the worst kind. It is one thing to see you lack value to another person, that can be easily dismissed. To think you lack value to God is devastating.

”Destructive doctrine and morally depraved teachers go hand in hand.”—T-bone.

Boy that’s the truth!! Nice post, T-bone. I hope you don’t mind, but I am copying and pasting something you said on the pfal thread and putting it here.

“In my opinion, one of the most beneficial functions of the mind - reflection - was discouraged in PFAL and of course in TWI. There’s something about the mindset of PFAL that gets people to sever their connection with reality – TWI folks don’t like to dwell on the past…thoughts that tend toward introspection are suppressed.

What is the practical consequence of such a mindset? It doesn’t see any relation between past thoughts/actions and current conditions. Adrift toward some future – awash in confusing details of past and present…It is shallow thinking – incapable of mining personal history for self-improvement, for lessons learned, for understanding how we got where we are now, the direction we’re likely to head, and what adjustments we need to make in our course heading. It breeds impatience – demanding that those who reflect should move on. The attitude is also tinged with arrogance – assuming people who review experiences have such a lowly status and recommend they move on to another level.

To avoid reflection is to stymie healing, growth, understanding, character development.”

Yes it is arrogant to tell someone “why don’t you move on.” It is also emotionally abusive. For someone to say that to me is crossing my boundaries and my human right to make my own decisions, take things at my own pace, think my own thoughts, and assume that position in my life for me. As such it is an attempt to devalue me. Any attempt to devalue another person is not love. Loving myself involves understanding this and not accepting it.

The first thought that crossed my mind this morning was: if you can’t discern the counterfeit, how can you discern the genuine? There is a reason why the Bible lays things out in contrasts, so you can clearly see the difference. Understanding what it is to respect God also involves understanding what disrespect is. Furthermore, how can you really love and respect others unless you really understand what it is not? Maybe that’s the real point of this thread. At least it’s an underlying one.

Abigail · August 10, 2007

I am hesitant here, because the question in my mind may be offensive to some and I do not intend any offense. I too endured and tolerated the spiritual abuse, along with physical and sexual abuse. So, I am not pointing fingers, I am not calling anyone weak or anything.

But I read the accounts in this thread, I recall my own account. At the same time, I am very aware that there were quite a few people who simply walked away at the first sign of abuse. They never endured it, never tolerated it, they simply decided they weren't putting up with that crap and left.

So, what I am wondering is WHY did some of us (me most certainly included) tolerate it for as long as we did? What change took place within us or within TWI that finally pushed us over the edge to the place where we decided we wouldn't stand for it any longer?

I know some of the things within myself, that allowed me to tolerate it. My own fears and insecurities, an upbringing that made a lot of that abuse seem perfectly normal (wasn't it that way in everyone's life - didn't everyone get treated that way?), the pressures and fears regarding losing my family and friends, etc. etc. But sometimes, I think there are still some things hidden in there - things that allowed me to tolerate, that perhaps I haven't dug out yet. Maybe not, I certainly don't put up with much b.s. these days. But I do put up with some - mostly that from strangers, professionals, doctors who have treated me that I didn't like, etc.

Eagle · August 10, 2007

TWI seemed to be proud of its "lack of law" attitude toward the Bible, yet zealous of its own "law" over the "Household of God." TWI took no shame in its cursing, sexual escapades, and for some, parking in handicapped spots and firezones.

I'm not joking.

T-Bone · August 10, 2007

...So, what I am wondering is WHY did some of us (me most certainly included) tolerate it for as long as we did? What change took place within us or within TWI that finally pushed us over the edge to the place where we decided we wouldn't stand for it any longer?...

For me - it was in the crisis management phase after POP. I felt so frustrated with leadership walking around like chickens with their heads cut off. The thought occurred to me that maybe there's something wrong with the way we do things. TWI's mismanagement triggered the analytical section of my brain. I began to question...to think.

Eyesopen · August 10, 2007

Abi you do not offend with an honest question. And I for one appreciate your point of view here.

What caused me to stay? As I have said previously I was not abused as a child. I was the spoiled little brat that had the perfect childhood..well as far as parents go anyway. So the abuse of twi was a bit of a surprise to me. But I really didn't recognize it as abuse until after I was out. I saw it as "just the way a ministry is run" or "some people just do things differently". I of course was completely ignorant of the sexual abuse and the child abuse. (None of that was right but it was not part of my equation. Had I known of it things for me would have been very different and I would have left much sooner. But that is not the question at hand.)

I even tried to imitate the behavior that I did witness. And frankly some of it was not entirely bad at least from my point of view. I witnessed great confidence, strength of character, belief in self and especially belief in the ability to walk with God. Those things I imitated and some actually stuck. At the time I did not know that much of what I saw was fake or faked. That really did not affect the fact that I kept what I had made real in my life.

I did try to imitate the whole face melting thing. We were told or led to believe that this was "Godly confrontation". Well I felt like a total a s s when I did it. And the person that I had melted looked worse than when we started. So it did not bring people back to "right believing" in fact it looked like I had just stangled their puppy in front of them...and how did that help their walk with God? I only tried it about three times and found that the results were always the same. So I didnt do it again.

As time went on more and more things just didnt fit with what I thought I was seeing. After POP I began to receive literature from several "camps" and my doubts grew. So when I was sent home by Rev Pile I was not really upset about it, I was in many ways relieved.

So in answer to the question "Why did I stay?" I thought that it was really of God, when I began to doubt that premise I began my departure.

another spot · August 10, 2007

That really is a good question Abi dear. For myself, what Eyes posted was part of it. The other part is I had no idea what boundaries are. In fact I only learned that a few years ago. Somehow in all my reading I missed that one. It never crossed my mind it is abnormal for another adult to make my decisions or exercise great control over my life. I didn’t recognize “face melting” was not Biblical (verbal or physical violence, a striker Biblically). I knew it felt bad.

I think twi doctrine itself made it very difficult to see the forest for the trees. As I write this I know it’s not a complete answer. Maybe we just see what we see when we see it. In any case, your question deserves more thought and discussion. I have the same one…

another spot · August 10, 2007

I got permission from eyes to post this excerpt from a letter from her.

“When I read something about our/my experience with twi, if that something sheds light on a memory or feeling that I once had then its like the bad memory suddenly doesn't look so scary. The "bad thing" isn't quite so ominous when exposed. For me it’s akin to finding out that the reason that I limp is because I have this big gaping wound in my leg and that wound has festered for so long that it is filled with puss and everything around it is angry and diseased. But when I shine the light of knowledge and understanding onto that wound it gets cleaned out. The more I understand about how I got it, the less diseased it is. It will leave a scar, but I can deal with a scar, they only itch once and a while. They don't infect surrounding parts, they don’t make me limp or immobilize me. They are just a reminder that I once was injured.

Facing demons: A person can either confront them, run from them or try and put them back into their box. Funny thing about demons, once they are out of the box putting them back in..is near impossible. So it is confront or run. Fight or flight. With help from others one will fight and win back his or her life...”

Dot Matrix · August 11, 2007

A. S.

I love this thread

It really adds a dimension to see spiritual abuse as taking the Lord's name in vain

another spot · August 11, 2007

Glad you got something from it, Dot. I’m in full agreement with you that taking the Lord’s name in vain is quite a thing. Yes it does add another dimension. Absolutely.

Love you , Sis.

waterbuffalo · August 12, 2007

I've enjoyed reading this Another Spot and everyone. What great posts!

T-Bone and others asked why we kept taking it for so long. The thing that keeps coming to mind is the lobster analogy. When they're cooking lobster, don't they start out with it in cold water (let's call this the acceptance phase or unconditional love phase with your new spiritual family)? Then, it gradually gets warm (maybe this could be the noticing inconsistencies between what is taught and practiced phase). Finally, it gets hotter and hotter and it's too late for the lobster to get out (the how did I get here and I'm very uncomfortable staying but "can't" leave phase). That's pretty much when we look back and say we were brainwashed to have ever gotten to that point. It's all so clear when we begin to compare notes here and with others.

I like the lobster analogy because the sp. abuse was such a gradual process.

Several people who are much better writers have mentioned it here and on waydale, I believe, but that's my version of it.

Anyway, thanks. You guys are great at expressing yourselves and it all makes sense.

rascal · August 12, 2007

Well...the long and the short of it...I thought that God required this of me :(

I can take it on a point by point blow if necessary....but suffice it to say, that in every single situation of abuse that I endured, resignation and acceptance to the treatment was ensured by bible verses.

I took it because I believed (as I had been taught) that to disobey a leader, meant to disobey God. To not accept reproof ...no matter how unjust....was to be stiff necked....

Edited August 12, 2007 by rascal

Shifra · August 12, 2007

Rascal,

What you just posted ... is why so many of us stayed around for so long. What you said here is enormous!

We stayed and endured BECAUSE WE THOUGHT THIS WAS GOD'S WILL.

I think there's a primitive part of us, in all of us, which tells us we must sacrifice and suffer for God. This is not specific only to Christians, but to many religions, down through history.

Our ignorance or denial of God's Solution to this misperception (which of course is Jesus Christ, who suffered so we wouldn't have to) ... our rejection of this Solution is/was based in the distancing that TWI did, when they practically ignored the Gospels and barely touched on any information about Jesus. The focus was elsewhere, such as "Jesus Christ is not God", Mary was not a virgin, the Gospels are part of the Old Testament, etc. These are/were diversions away from any emphasis on the liberation offered by Christ. Had they taught us about Jesus to the degree that they taught us about the manifestations or the devil spirit realm ... we would have recognized our own God-given FREEDOM, and we would have been outathere. But no, we were fed the so-called "Word", which was really the word of the leadership disguised as the Word of God. And they said, "the Word of God is the Will of God".

So we just kept on enduring, believing this was how to live in order to show God that we loved Him so very much.

And I think God honors this, much the same as He honors other uninformed societies and tribes who cause themselves harm in order to worship Him. But it must make Him very sad. I believe He has shown similar Solutions to these groups, but they continue to suffer for similar reasons, ie manipulation by popes and zen masters and medicine men.

In a way, it's sorta comforting to understand that we were in a cult, NOT because we were stupid or naive or weak, but rather because our love for God was so strong. On the other hand, it makes me wonder about how the intangible and unmeasurable nature of spirituality can be twisted by immoral men into such a very tangible and measurable TRAP.

Anyhow, thanks, Rascal. Your post was a big lightbulb above my head today - y'know - one of those things that I already knew, but it just never clicked before.

Eyesopen · August 12, 2007

In a way, it's sorta comforting to understand that we were in a cult, NOT because we were stupid or naive or weak, but rather because our love for God was so strong. On the other hand, it makes me wonder about how the intangible and unmeasurable nature of spirituality can be twisted by immoral men into such a very tangible and measurable TRAP.

This is wonderful! And I think a great piece of the puzzle that will eventually heal those still in the whole condemnation cage that they are trapped in.

And how can the nature of spirituality be so twisted? Well it is just my opinion but twisting the Bible and hence the spiritual meaning is not so very difficult...especially if you have an agenda.

Matthew 24:24

For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible.

I took it because I believed (as I had been taught) that to disobey a leader, meant to disobey God. To not accept reproof ...no matter how unjust....was to be stiff necked....

Well that about sums up a bunch don't it?

another spot · August 12, 2007

Nice, well thought out posts….!!! :eusa_clap:

“Our ignorance or denial of God's Solution to this misperception (which of course is Jesus Christ, who suffered so we wouldn't have to) ... our rejection of this Solution is/was based in the distancing that TWI did, when they practically ignored the Gospels and barely touched on any information about Jesus. The focus was elsewhere, such as "Jesus Christ is not God", Mary was not a virgin, the Gospels are part of the Old Testament, etc. These are/were diversions away from any emphasis on the liberation offered by Christ. Had they taught us about Jesus to the degree that they taught us about the manifestations or the devil spirit realm ... we would have recognized our own God-given FREEDOM, and we would have been outathere. But no, we were fed the so-called "Word", which was really the word of the leadership disguised as the Word of God. And they said, "the Word of God is the Will of God".—Shifra :eusa_clap:

That should be framed and hung on a wall…(borrowing a phrase from Rascal…) It’s almost if not more interesting to consider what they didn’t teach as well as what they did. How about not taking the Lord’s name in vain? Oh yeah, the O. T. is for our learning.

Well I for one feel much better now. Here’s what’s weird. I thought I felt just fine when I started the thread. I thought I had a little unfinished business was all, and I really couldn’t put my finger on what it was. I understand now, and the result is I have direction to start looking at the things that really are important that I missed in twi.

Light is much better than darkness…

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Isa 5:21 Woe unto [them that are] wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

Isa 5:22 Woe unto [them that are] mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:

Isa 5:23Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!

Isa 5:24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, [so] their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

I think that pretty well sums up the ministry of a false prophet. The genuine good is sweet, not bitter.

Dot Matrix · August 14, 2007

Nothing wrong with the Word, but how it is upheld.

Polar bear

Amen!

another spot · August 14, 2007

I got involved with twi because I wasn’t satisfied with mediocrity and vagueness. I wasn’t satisfied to think going to church on Sunday is enough and measure my “righteousness” accordingly.

Pro 2:1 My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;

Pro 2:2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, [and] apply thine heart to understanding;

Pro 2:3Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, [and] liftest up thy voice for understanding;

Pro 2:4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as [for] hid treasures;

Pro 2:5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.

Pro 2:6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth [cometh] knowledge and understanding.

Jesus often confronted the false religion of his day and time, teaching the difference between what was genuine and what was counterfeit.

Ok, so I spent some time in a false, abusive religion. I have processed in my own mind what was counterfeit about it. That puts me in a good position to perceive the genuine with greater clarity.

Twi was just one step among many. It wasn’t the end, and the song isn’t done playing yet.

What The Hey · August 15, 2007

....
Anyhow, thanks, Rascal. Your post was a big lightbulb above my head today - y'know - one of those things that I already knew, but it just never clicked before.

She loves to go around pulling people's chain, but the bulb's still burned out.

Bramble · August 15, 2007

This has turned into a thread with healing thoughts!

She loves to go around pulling people's chain, but the bulb's still burned out.

Ah, insults! They tell more about the insulter than the insultee, in my opinion. In TWI it was common and acceptable to insult those not like you. OOO, what a stand for the Loving God.

What away to bring healing to the world.

Abigail · August 15, 2007

So true, Bramble. But I really hope WTH sticks around - he is such a shining example of what is wrong with TWI :biglaugh:

T-Bone · August 15, 2007

Aren't you glad toxic faith is not a communicable disease.....well, I guess it's not...once you're outside of the breeding grounds :biglaugh: .

[edited to remove parasites :biglaugh: ]

Edited August 15, 2007 by T-Bone

Spiritual Abuse and Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

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