My sympathies CU. Dealing with culties is kinda like living with an alcoholic or something. You always have to guess what the hell is going on in their heads and dance around issues. And then all the secrecy and stonewalling. Absurd.
Well, maybe whatever additional foolishness is in the making will cause your relatives to finally snap out of it? It could happen...
Concerned uncle...Welcome to the GreaseSpot!...and you should be concerned!
What you are describing sounds very typical of cult behavior. It's the "us versus them" mentality. They become indoctrinated with the idea that their knowledge is unique and superior to anyone outside of their group and this lends itself towards an elitist attitude.
Seperating themselves from you is what they are taught to do...it "protects" them from being contaminated by outside sources...sources that do not "line up" with the doctrinal views of their group. This is standard operating proceedure for the Way International...The family camp that they just attended is fresh in their minds and the effects of this experience is, no doubt, responsible for these decisions...I'm sure that they were highly encouraged to eliminate "non-Way people" from their immediate environment for the purpose of their individual "spiritual growth".
Try not to take it personally (easier said than done)...because these decisions do not reflect upon you (other than you're not a part of their cult), but upon them and the influence that this cult has upon them.
I would encourage you to explore all this website has to offer as it can provide information that will give you a greater appreciation of the situation. Do not be too discouraged as many people here were in the same boat and have since, come to their senses and re-established strong relationships with their families...Twi offers no real solutions and hopefully, in time, your family members will recognize this....Good luck.
My sympathies CU. Dealing with culties is kinda like living with an alcoholic or something. You always have to guess what the hell is going on in their heads and dance around issues. And then all the secrecy and stonewalling. Absurd.
Well, maybe whatever additional foolishness is in the making will cause your relatives to finally snap out of it? It could happen...
A MAL pack was a More Abundant Living pack. It was a fully packed backpack ready to go an any time. We had teams we were to meet and a planned place to go. In every team all the basic essentials were covered (BTW to some extent this was the concept of how we worked together at LEAD.) This concept started sometime around '79 and persisted in some form or another until Y2K.
The original idea was that we might need to "head to the hills" if the communists took over. In residence we were made to watch the movie "Red Dawn" to give us an idea of what we might be in for.
I would think that with all the scares running about terrorism, that Rosie and Co. thought this might be a way to unite the troops.
I would ask them what was so special about camp...dont be intrusive..it could put them on guard and they might shut off..Maybe, they are preparing to go into The Way Disciples Program. I have been to camp and it is built around the family structure...always to move the Word!!
While I can't shed a tremendous amount of light, you're welcome to the little I know. John and I went to a family camp in upstate NY in 1996. It was run by Vince Finnegan and John McCabe (I hope in this context it's okay to use their whole names). We had a very good time (not really relevant), but since then I have heard that things have been going downhill. I might be able to PM you addresses and phone numbers if you would like, and if you give me some time to look them up.
BTW, the Y2K scare was a lot more widespread than Rosie and Co.
I would like to add, to Concerned Uncle, be careful how much information you reveal about your family. TWI does have people who read these forums. If they figure out who your family is, they will be sure to let them know you are posting here. That won't go over well with them.
You say you and your family are concerned Christians, and I am too, and I would suggest a LOT of prayer. They may not contact you for a while, but trust me, God knows what went on at that camp and He will guard them from harm.
It is not uncommon for TWI to "circle the wagons" whenever things are not going their way. There are dire prophecies, vaguely referred to except for the elite ears to hear, and the Household is gathered within the hallowed walls of Zion, the only place on earth where God can protect them. (That's what they call their headquarters in New Knoxville, Ohio sometimes.)
It's also not uncommon in any setting for people to return from a summer camp situation all fired up, renewed in commitment, on fire for the Lord, or TWI, or whatever.
There is a forum on this site called The Prayer Room. I'd like to see you post your requests on it. One tip: Don't use names; the Way has people who peruse this site for names, situations they recognize and can identify the "innies" involved, etc. You could get your family in trouble that that would not help anyone right now. We call 'em the "WayGB."
BTW, the Y2K scare was a lot more widespread than Rosie and Co.
Jean - You're right. I didnt' mean to imply that Y2K was invented by TWI. I only meant that it was one of the justifications for keeping up the MAL pack concept. I'm not sure if it is still in use.
A Family camp ten years ago... lots could have changed.
It really could be that these kids are all fired up and re-committed. It could be something else.
My wife's sister & family have been a part of the way for many years. I would characterize them as ingrained in their teachings, but not very ardent followers. Attending "fellowship" occasionally and the occasional classes for the kids.
Anyhow, they went to "family camp" the week of July 22. They live in NE Ohio, and I am under the impression the camp is in NY state. They had been to "family camp" a number of times before, but there has been a big change after this years event.
Our 17 yo niece has been staying with us for the summer for a job nearby. After she returned from camp she came to our house, collected her stuff, said she couldn't stay with us right now, couldn't tell us why, and couldn't talk to us without her friend present ( her friend was also at the camp)
No one will give any explanation beyond it is a good thing for her and it is temporary and lean not on our own understanding
ConcernedUncle,
A few months ago, a GS poster let us know that The Way International's Camp Gunnison near Gunnison, Colorado was going to start using this property for their "family camps." In the past, they always endeavor to stress "family" and "household" and "sanctified" and such at these events.
Clearly, from your observations there was an abrupt departure from their normal behavior AFTER arriving home from this camp setting. And, of course....it is disturbing to see your niece depart with very little explanation. As others have stated, this type of behavior has all the markings of cult mentality. And, if you are unfamiliar with such ......google cults or cult recovery or go to your nearest bookstore and get a copy of The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse. It will enlighten your understanding greatly.
Statistics confirm that many times its the good-hearted, sincere individual that falls prey to cults. People like this just want to help and are out-going and searching for ways to help others.
Stay strong and if there is anything I can do to assist you, please PM me.
Jean - You're right. I didnt' mean to imply that Y2K was invented by TWI. I only meant that it was one of the justifications for keeping up the MAL pack concept. I'm not sure if it is still in use.
A Family camp ten years ago... lots could have changed.
It really could be that these kids are all fired up and re-committed. It could be something else.
Yes, indeed in ten years many things could have changed.
I had that back pack for a few years, the boots and all.
I wonder if it has to do with the talks about making Canada, Mexico and the US without borders - one big Country type thing. (treaties to be signed by the end of summer and go into effect by 2010)
(Links on I want to be a Canadian thread thingy)
I wonder where you run to if all those places are involved.
Are you sure they are still a part of The Way International NOW, at present?
There are no family camps in upstate New York that are Way affiliated. All family camps will be in Colorado.
There are spin -offs that might be in NY, like Jeaniam stated.
The Way is many things, but as of now, they aren't telling people to runaway from family, they are actually trying to get them to ''love'' everyone.
Sounds like a bad xway spinoff cult to me.
If it is a Way Intl' meeting, then it is completly isolated to that Branch or Limb Coord. But, if they live in Ohio, they wouldn't really be going to a NY Limb meeting.
I am sorry you are seeing your loved ones go through this. My heart aches for the younger ones, confused they probably are.
No matter what, keep your relationship with them sweet and offer your home as a place to come , ANY TIME they need to.
I wonder if the niece is going to the Advanced Class or working at HQ or going Way Disciple. When does she turn 18?
This is exactly what I was wondering, too! It also may be one of those over-reactive parent controlling the child thing. Did she have a boyfriend around who was not part of twi? That can cause severe overreaction.
(take it from a former child who was forced to break up with a boyfriend who wouldn't take the foundational class.)
AND SINCE I AM RECENTLY OUT - I second what Bliss just said. It does sound more like an offshoot that actual twi to me, unless your neice is going Way Disciple or on Staff, or if her entire family is headed into the Way Corps.
Thank you everyone so very much for your encouraging words and insights.
I found out the camp was probably in IN or IL and not NY ( a phrase i had in my mind from a year or two ago was "northcoast family camp in ny". That's why NY was in the back of my mind, but looks like I was off base on that.
My impression has been that they aren't part of twi per say anymore, but some offshoot. But I have no way of knowing. Their group has been around a long time. 20+ years
Our biggest question was what precipitated this behavior. Our feeling is some decision has been made about her future and they want to keep her away from any outside influences. Possibilities like "Advanced Class or working at HQ or going Way Disciple" are the kind of things that came to mind in our research. She is almost 18 by the way. She told us when she moved out that it would "come out soon, but couldn't tell us now"
We've also speculated if there was some sort of impending disaster scenario given at the camp. But if that was the case why keep her away from us. They weren't concerned about y2k in the least. Where I was very concerned, so I am the "doomsday" member of the family.
So the above possibilities seem more likely.
Nothing like a bolt out of the blue like this to knock you out of your comfort zone and put you back on your knees. Lots of prayer here. Thank you all again for your prayers and thoughts.
If anyone has any additional thoughts, we would love to hear them.
Blessings
"CU"
Are you sure they are still a part of The Way International NOW, at present?
There are no family camps in upstate New York that are Way affiliated. All family camps will be in Colorado.
There are spin -offs that might be in NY, like Jeaniam stated.
The Way is many things, but as of now, they aren't telling people to runaway from family, they are actually trying to get them to ''love'' everyone.
Sounds like a bad xway spinoff cult to me.
If it is a Way Intl' meeting, then it is completly isolated to that Branch or Limb Coord. But, if they live in Ohio, they wouldn't really be going to a NY Limb meeting.
Wonder if it would be possible search the websites of some of the off shoots and find out if any of them recently had a camp in IN or IL, and/or is promoting a doomsday scenario?
And Uncle, I seriously doubt if this is something of the magnitude of Jonestown. I wouldn't worry about something like that.
Can't think of a group that's been around 20 or so years that's a TWI offshoot, but I was "in" 11 years so wouldn't have heard. TWI keeps you in the dark about that sort of thing, lest you check it out and find it superior to them.
I'm aware of some off-shoots in IL (not IN) associated with Chris Geer, but don't know about a family camp. Most areas with CG are pretty independent, so I wouldn't necessarily know; we live in the St. Louis area. Checking the offshoots thread sounds like a good idea. Also many of the off-shoots have independent websites. God Bless.
Wonder if it would be possible search the websites of some of the off shoots and find out if any of them recently had a camp in IN or IL, and/or is promoting a doomsday scenario?
And Uncle, I seriously doubt if this is something of the magnitude of Jonestown. I wouldn't worry about something like that.
Can't think of a group that's been around 20 or so years that's a TWI offshoot, but I was "in" 11 years so wouldn't have heard. TWI keeps you in the dark about that sort of thing, lest you check it out and find it superior to them.
WG
This may be totally off base...........BUT hasn't CES been around for about 20 years? Didn't JAL and those folks break away from twi in 1987?
And, doesn't CES have a "Freedom Camp" or campground property near Bloomington, IN?
Some more acquainted with CES here would be able to answer these questions. I have no idea if CES is running family camps at their location. Nor do I have any idea if they have an outreach program that would be of interest to 18 year olds.
I spent some more time thinking about this last night and I am pretty sure this is an offshoot of some sort. If it was twi, they would be witnessing like crazy about what it is they are doing and how proud they are.
And WateredGarden is right, I seriously doubt it would be something along the lines of Jonestown.
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George Aar
Oh GAWD,
Are they getting their MAL packs prepared again?
My sympathies CU. Dealing with culties is kinda like living with an alcoholic or something. You always have to guess what the hell is going on in their heads and dance around issues. And then all the secrecy and stonewalling. Absurd.
Well, maybe whatever additional foolishness is in the making will cause your relatives to finally snap out of it? It could happen...
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GrouchoMarxJr
Concerned uncle...Welcome to the GreaseSpot!...and you should be concerned!
What you are describing sounds very typical of cult behavior. It's the "us versus them" mentality. They become indoctrinated with the idea that their knowledge is unique and superior to anyone outside of their group and this lends itself towards an elitist attitude.
Seperating themselves from you is what they are taught to do...it "protects" them from being contaminated by outside sources...sources that do not "line up" with the doctrinal views of their group. This is standard operating proceedure for the Way International...The family camp that they just attended is fresh in their minds and the effects of this experience is, no doubt, responsible for these decisions...I'm sure that they were highly encouraged to eliminate "non-Way people" from their immediate environment for the purpose of their individual "spiritual growth".
Try not to take it personally (easier said than done)...because these decisions do not reflect upon you (other than you're not a part of their cult), but upon them and the influence that this cult has upon them.
I would encourage you to explore all this website has to offer as it can provide information that will give you a greater appreciation of the situation. Do not be too discouraged as many people here were in the same boat and have since, come to their senses and re-established strong relationships with their families...Twi offers no real solutions and hopefully, in time, your family members will recognize this....Good luck.
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ConcernedUncle
Thanks for the kind words.
What is a MAL pack?
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GT
Sounds like they're running another one of their doom's day scenarios. Always good for putting a scare into their drones, upping the commitment level.
I guess they're overdue for one. Been awhile since they had one. The Y2K scare didn't work out to well.
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doojable
A MAL pack was a More Abundant Living pack. It was a fully packed backpack ready to go an any time. We had teams we were to meet and a planned place to go. In every team all the basic essentials were covered (BTW to some extent this was the concept of how we worked together at LEAD.) This concept started sometime around '79 and persisted in some form or another until Y2K.
The original idea was that we might need to "head to the hills" if the communists took over. In residence we were made to watch the movie "Red Dawn" to give us an idea of what we might be in for.
I would think that with all the scares running about terrorism, that Rosie and Co. thought this might be a way to unite the troops.
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likeaneagle
I would ask them what was so special about camp...dont be intrusive..it could put them on guard and they might shut off..Maybe, they are preparing to go into The Way Disciples Program. I have been to camp and it is built around the family structure...always to move the Word!!
stay in touch..
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Jeaniam
While I can't shed a tremendous amount of light, you're welcome to the little I know. John and I went to a family camp in upstate NY in 1996. It was run by Vince Finnegan and John McCabe (I hope in this context it's okay to use their whole names). We had a very good time (not really relevant), but since then I have heard that things have been going downhill. I might be able to PM you addresses and phone numbers if you would like, and if you give me some time to look them up.
BTW, the Y2K scare was a lot more widespread than Rosie and Co.
Second likeaneagle
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Abigail
I would like to add, to Concerned Uncle, be careful how much information you reveal about your family. TWI does have people who read these forums. If they figure out who your family is, they will be sure to let them know you are posting here. That won't go over well with them.
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Watered Garden
Dear Concerned Uncle,
You say you and your family are concerned Christians, and I am too, and I would suggest a LOT of prayer. They may not contact you for a while, but trust me, God knows what went on at that camp and He will guard them from harm.
It is not uncommon for TWI to "circle the wagons" whenever things are not going their way. There are dire prophecies, vaguely referred to except for the elite ears to hear, and the Household is gathered within the hallowed walls of Zion, the only place on earth where God can protect them. (That's what they call their headquarters in New Knoxville, Ohio sometimes.)
It's also not uncommon in any setting for people to return from a summer camp situation all fired up, renewed in commitment, on fire for the Lord, or TWI, or whatever.
There is a forum on this site called The Prayer Room. I'd like to see you post your requests on it. One tip: Don't use names; the Way has people who peruse this site for names, situations they recognize and can identify the "innies" involved, etc. You could get your family in trouble that that would not help anyone right now. We call 'em the "WayGB."
Watered Garden aka WG
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Jeaniam
Oops, double post
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doojable
Jean - You're right. I didnt' mean to imply that Y2K was invented by TWI. I only meant that it was one of the justifications for keeping up the MAL pack concept. I'm not sure if it is still in use.
A Family camp ten years ago... lots could have changed.
It really could be that these kids are all fired up and re-committed. It could be something else.
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skyrider
ConcernedUncle,
A few months ago, a GS poster let us know that The Way International's Camp Gunnison near Gunnison, Colorado was going to start using this property for their "family camps." In the past, they always endeavor to stress "family" and "household" and "sanctified" and such at these events.
Clearly, from your observations there was an abrupt departure from their normal behavior AFTER arriving home from this camp setting. And, of course....it is disturbing to see your niece depart with very little explanation. As others have stated, this type of behavior has all the markings of cult mentality. And, if you are unfamiliar with such ......google cults or cult recovery or go to your nearest bookstore and get a copy of The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse. It will enlighten your understanding greatly.
Statistics confirm that many times its the good-hearted, sincere individual that falls prey to cults. People like this just want to help and are out-going and searching for ways to help others.
Stay strong and if there is anything I can do to assist you, please PM me.
Take care......and do not take it personal.
God bless you. You are in my prayers.
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Jeaniam
Yes, indeed in ten years many things could have changed.
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WordWolf
Hello.
In a general sense, I advise you to look over an introduction to this messageboard,
which is here...
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=7913
I would also recommend looking over the thread with all the terminology and jargon on it,
which is here....
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=4734
I would also recommend putting in some real time over the next month or so, and get an
overview of the site-the documents, twi's history, and so on.
Feel free to ask questions.
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Nottawayfer
I wonder if the niece is going to the Advanced Class or working at HQ or going Way Disciple. When does she turn 18?
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Dot Matrix
Dooj
I thought it was Mobile Abundant Living.
I had that back pack for a few years, the boots and all.
I wonder if it has to do with the talks about making Canada, Mexico and the US without borders - one big Country type thing. (treaties to be signed by the end of summer and go into effect by 2010)
(Links on I want to be a Canadian thread thingy)
I wonder where you run to if all those places are involved.
Are they all going to live on the farm?
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bliss
Concerned Uncle,
Welcome here!
Are you sure they are still a part of The Way International NOW, at present?
There are no family camps in upstate New York that are Way affiliated. All family camps will be in Colorado.
There are spin -offs that might be in NY, like Jeaniam stated.
The Way is many things, but as of now, they aren't telling people to runaway from family, they are actually trying to get them to ''love'' everyone.
Sounds like a bad xway spinoff cult to me.
If it is a Way Intl' meeting, then it is completly isolated to that Branch or Limb Coord. But, if they live in Ohio, they wouldn't really be going to a NY Limb meeting.
I am sorry you are seeing your loved ones go through this. My heart aches for the younger ones, confused they probably are.
No matter what, keep your relationship with them sweet and offer your home as a place to come , ANY TIME they need to.
They might take you up on it, to escape.
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JavaJane
This is exactly what I was wondering, too! It also may be one of those over-reactive parent controlling the child thing. Did she have a boyfriend around who was not part of twi? That can cause severe overreaction.
(take it from a former child who was forced to break up with a boyfriend who wouldn't take the foundational class.)
AND SINCE I AM RECENTLY OUT - I second what Bliss just said. It does sound more like an offshoot that actual twi to me, unless your neice is going Way Disciple or on Staff, or if her entire family is headed into the Way Corps.
*edited after I read Bliss's post
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ConcernedUncle
Thank you everyone so very much for your encouraging words and insights.
I found out the camp was probably in IN or IL and not NY ( a phrase i had in my mind from a year or two ago was "northcoast family camp in ny". That's why NY was in the back of my mind, but looks like I was off base on that.
My impression has been that they aren't part of twi per say anymore, but some offshoot. But I have no way of knowing. Their group has been around a long time. 20+ years
Our biggest question was what precipitated this behavior. Our feeling is some decision has been made about her future and they want to keep her away from any outside influences. Possibilities like "Advanced Class or working at HQ or going Way Disciple" are the kind of things that came to mind in our research. She is almost 18 by the way. She told us when she moved out that it would "come out soon, but couldn't tell us now"
We've also speculated if there was some sort of impending disaster scenario given at the camp. But if that was the case why keep her away from us. They weren't concerned about y2k in the least. Where I was very concerned, so I am the "doomsday" member of the family.
So the above possibilities seem more likely.
Nothing like a bolt out of the blue like this to knock you out of your comfort zone and put you back on your knees. Lots of prayer here. Thank you all again for your prayers and thoughts.
If anyone has any additional thoughts, we would love to hear them.
Blessings
"CU"
Are you sure they are still a part of The Way International NOW, at present?
There are no family camps in upstate New York that are Way affiliated. All family camps will be in Colorado.
There are spin -offs that might be in NY, like Jeaniam stated.
The Way is many things, but as of now, they aren't telling people to runaway from family, they are actually trying to get them to ''love'' everyone.
Sounds like a bad xway spinoff cult to me.
If it is a Way Intl' meeting, then it is completly isolated to that Branch or Limb Coord. But, if they live in Ohio, they wouldn't really be going to a NY Limb meeting.
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Watered Garden
Wonder if it would be possible search the websites of some of the off shoots and find out if any of them recently had a camp in IN or IL, and/or is promoting a doomsday scenario?
And Uncle, I seriously doubt if this is something of the magnitude of Jonestown. I wouldn't worry about something like that.
Can't think of a group that's been around 20 or so years that's a TWI offshoot, but I was "in" 11 years so wouldn't have heard. TWI keeps you in the dark about that sort of thing, lest you check it out and find it superior to them.
WG
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Jeaniam
I'm aware of some off-shoots in IL (not IN) associated with Chris Geer, but don't know about a family camp. Most areas with CG are pretty independent, so I wouldn't necessarily know; we live in the St. Louis area. Checking the offshoots thread sounds like a good idea. Also many of the off-shoots have independent websites. God Bless.
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skyrider
This may be totally off base...........BUT hasn't CES been around for about 20 years? Didn't JAL and those folks break away from twi in 1987?
And, doesn't CES have a "Freedom Camp" or campground property near Bloomington, IN?
Some more acquainted with CES here would be able to answer these questions. I have no idea if CES is running family camps at their location. Nor do I have any idea if they have an outreach program that would be of interest to 18 year olds.
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Jeaniam
I think the exodus began in the middle to late 1980's, so some of the off-shoots could have been around close to 20 years.
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JavaJane
20 years??
How did I get so old?
I spent some more time thinking about this last night and I am pretty sure this is an offshoot of some sort. If it was twi, they would be witnessing like crazy about what it is they are doing and how proud they are.
And WateredGarden is right, I seriously doubt it would be something along the lines of Jonestown.
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