I am sure you are right. All's I'm saying is, I was at HQ on staff, In 77 and 78, when there weren't very many staff members. I never saw Geer there. Like, never. ;) My memory might be questionable, but it ain't that bad. :unsure:
OK, I’ll play the “Gap” role of the straight man. Anotherdan #70, you indeed won’t find too many supporters willing to push anything positive here because that involves risk. The risk of having to defend a position which may not be worth the effort of defending. I am sure there will be little new info. in my words, but I just thought I would jump in...the shark tank!
If you try and think of GreaseSpot as a hospital like in my posting #302865, you might come to the following conclusions:
@ This site is simply a retirement zone of former cult inmates, of people who basically hate (until the day they die!) Weirwelle and his Cult Business, The Way. If you don’t go along with that theology it’s either the “ignore” button, (formerly known by ex-cultists as mark & avoid) or they will do their best to destroy your argument by picking apart various parts of your response. It’s always the same and there is little tolerance for way brain detours.
* Many of these people appear to suffer from addictive/compulsive behavior. This site is not just a “home”, it’s almost their entire life outside of whatever else they do? (& don’t forget those sinister phantoms lurking in cyberland!) It’s a little like the “usual suspects” . You always know who is going to be there to attack, defend, quote a verse here and there, and finally, to give a response and get in the last rascal “word”. That’s very important, the last word. Hit on one of the ‘02’s or 03’s as an “outsider” and another will run to their emotional rescue. A little like cat and mouse soap opera.
# Sharks in a cesspool, again the usual sharks spewing the usual benefits of why they need to be here. That is answered by...”to help another poor unwitting soul who needs us to put his life back together” after having been exposed to (or thinking about going in) the evil The Way. In short, they are psychologists in their spare time, always ready to give a reassuring pat on the back...until they later bite your head off! (that comment is going to really drive some of them crazy!!)
% Mood Swingers are also very interesting to observe. In the morning over here, I watch the previous night’s blood bath between them & who has been ravaged by whom. (Mind you these are “christians”!) That’s fun! Another image is to think of the cesspool being a fish tank. First you are baptized at the counter, then the questions begin...AND the sharks are always curious and suspicious of anyone who is entering THEIR cult territorial waters! They want to know EVERYTHING! The mood swings are finally best visible in the aftermath of the carnage when feeding time is over, the bones have been licked, and they can get around to “hugging”, crying, and kissing each other!~ That’s fun to watch too!
& Never forget in the back of all this is always the hatred of VP & The Way. He is the DEVIL incarnate and the Way, His Ship of Commerce! (He may actually be more alive in death than he was walking around!!) Also any new “tidbits” of information no matter how bizarre or moronic, is food for the fish and vital for consumption and continued discussion (think of peeling an onion!). Cooking, Baseball, the Funnies, all of that is not front page news! Just another segment of the program to keep people entertained. Doctrine is reserved for life’s major problems, where people actually have to pray and seek out the god they say they have always been looking for. That’s the “serious” department!
$ So to wrap up this little sandwich, if you look at it maybe from God’s perspective, those avatar’s might just represent middle aged people, disguised as grease spots, trying to resolve their problems in the usual fashion of group therapy, and quoting bits and pieces of scripture along...the way! The Way for sure damaged many, and some good is being done with help on the table, but for the most part it’s just a cult re-hash of the corps past in a closed community box. A sad past of people who lost their dreams in a bible business which ground them up. And for some, Grease Spot maybe all they have, until possible they move on to a more productive way of spending their time.
^ And so the circus must go on with the usual suspects, trashing & bashing, analyzing TWI history of past details & experiences, hugging & crying, a few laughs & smilies, and all the rest. But when the lights go down & the music goes quiet, not much new will have been said or done. (Few will believe that statement)
(Conditioned Response again: Bumpy, why are you here? Answer: Entertainment, a laugh, (what’s more healthy in life than laughter?), a little interesting reading, some interaction & maybe meeting a few smart people who aren’t completely hung up on their “ill spent youth”!) Bless You All and again thanks for listening! :)
We now return you to normal Cyberspace soap opera operating mode and the “search” for the evil Mr. Geer...
Did someone say SHARKS!! FEMALE SHARKS WITH BIG WHITE TEETH!!! CALL THE LIFE GUARD!!
It hit me the other day - I had forgotten it. When vpw taught that section of scripture and he said that "all the women in the kingdom belonged to the King anyway," I remembered how my heart sunk. I don't know how to describe it, but I was 21 - young and naiive and all I could feel was a sort of remorse. I felt devalued somehow. It only lasted a second, but I remembered it. It was as if at that point in time God didn't care about women. Afterall, God's main concern was that Uriah - a man - had been murdered...
I don't want to make this seem like I thought about it a long time. It was gut knee-jerk reaction - but a reaction all the same.
Dooj, the same thing happened to me then and when he said Styles spoke to his wife so disrespectfully. Thanks for putting it into words. I've thought about it many times and remember thinking then he wasn't someone I should be associated with.
What do they say about knee-jerk reactions/first impressions, etc.? We apparently learned not to trust our gut reactions during our first classes. Interesting.
I don't know Bump... do you have to go back to square one?
I don’t know Tom, that’s a good question. I mean can you ever go back to first base when you round second?
It looks like a lot of this bible stuff is up for grabs around here, so why not start with “grace”?? “Believing”, is certainly being thrown about here rather liberally.
In the 2nd ed of RTHST in 1955, VP credited "a man" for teaching him about the Holy Spirit (he did capitalize the Holy Spirit back then, and JE Stiles was the man VP refused to name- probably because if anyone read Stiles' book and RTHST, they'd see that VP plagiarized it, and VP wanted to hide his academic theft).
The 3rd ed of RTHST two years later in 1957 leaves out the phrase about the man who taught him. In its place, we read VP says, "I prayed that I might put aside all I had heard and thought out myself, and I started anew with the Bible as my handbook as well as my textbok."
So in 1957 VP consciously decided to deceive his readers into thinking he had originated RTHST instead of stealing it. Besides conscious deception (lying) this shows a desire to promote himself as others' expense, arrogant and self-serving. He didn't slip, he made an early choice, and future lies like the non-existent Tulsa snowstorm showed he continued to make that conscious choice, and in fact formed his "ministry" around it.
In the 2nd ed of RTHST in 1955, VP credited "a man" for teaching him about the Holy Spirit (he did capitalize the Holy Spirit back then, and JE Stiles was the man VP refused to name- probably because if anyone read Stiles' book and RTHST, they'd see that VP plagiarized it, and VP wanted to hide his academic theft).
The 3rd ed of RTHST two years later in 1957 leaves out the phrase about the man who taught him. In its place, we read VP says, "I prayed that I might put aside all I had heard and thought out myself, and I started anew with the Bible as my handbook as well as my textbok."
So in 1957 VP consciously decided to deceive his readers into thinking he had originated RTHST instead of stealing it. Besides conscious deception (lying) this shows a desire to promote himself as others' expense, arrogant and self-serving. He didn't slip, he made an early choice, and future lies like the non-existent Tulsa snowstorm showed he continued to make that conscious choice, and in fact formed his "ministry" around it.
John, when you stand before God on "Judgment Day" what reward do you think you'll receive for your crusade against VPW and TWI?
Sometimes people just do what they consider "the right thing" without seeking a reward.
Sometimes people murder someone because they consider it "the right thing" to do and don't expect to be rewarded for it. And probably don't expect to be judged for it either.
I don't know Larry, as someone who never knew VPW, but recognizes his life had an impact on mine, I find the information about RTHS interesting.
Does it have an impact on how I live my life today - Nope, not at all. Nonetheless, I have spend some amount of time trying to figure out what was good and bad about TWI and how much of the bad was purely manipulation for selfish purposes based on the part of various leadership. Why do I care? I don't know beyond some part of me still wants to try and make sense of it all, it was 10 years of my life afterall - and the last 5 of them became pretty horrible. Even to this day I still deal with it, there are still "issues" stemming from my involvement. So such information is relavant in my mind.
I don't know Larry, as someone who never knew VPW, but recognizes his life had an impact on mine, I find the information about RTHS interesting.
Does it have an impact on how I live my life today - Nope, not at all. Nonetheless, I have spend some amount of time trying to figure out what was good and bad about TWI and how much of the bad was purely manipulation for selfish purposes based on the part of various leadership. Why do I care? I don't know beyond some part of me still wants to try and make sense of it all, it was 10 years of my life afterall - and the last 5 of them became pretty horrible. Even to this day I still deal with it, there are still "issues" stemming from my involvement. So such information is relavant in my mind.
Abi, correct me if I'm wrong but, are you saying John is justified in what he's doing because you have been helped as a result of it?
Why does information about vpw make you so uncomfortable Larry?
It doesn't.
Why is it so important to you personally to obstruct the truth concerning his behavior?
I'm not.
Why are you more offended with people who talk about what he did rather than be outraged with him for actually doing these things??
I'm not offended.
Why would any person of character, integrity, and honesty wish to hide this mans misdeeds?
The questions I have are: Does this glorify God? Who gets the praise?
Obviously you DO or are you just generally this disagreeable?
Who gets glorified? who gets the praise?? I dunno..why not ask these questions of Jesus when he was confronting the religious leaders of his day who were hurting people?
I would ask of you...who gets glorified and gets praised when you act so ugly to those here whom you CAN see??
Obviously you DO or are you just generally this disagreeable?
Obviously you are offended that I would have the audacity to even ask John such a question.
Who gets glorified? who gets the praise?? I dunno..why not ask these questions of Jesus when he was confronting the religious leaders of his day who were hurting people?
You understand very little about the ministry of Jesus -- obviously.
I would ask of you...who gets glorified and gets praised when you act so ugly to those here whom you CAN see??
*sigh* Rascal, I suggest you follow through on what you previously decided. Put me on ignore. Obviously you're too emotionally delicate to handle my comments and questions.
Abi, correct me if I'm wrong but, are you saying John is justified in what he's doing because you have been helped as a result of it?
It doesn't.
SNIP
The questions I have are: Does this glorify God? Who gets the praise?
1. I have no opinion regarding John's "justification", really, I never even gave it a single thought. But yes, the work he has done has helped me and I suspect it has helped many others.
The short version as best I can do it is that a minister I knew from another church (who may actually know John, now that I think back on it) brought me information from John's website long before I ever left TWI. At that time I sort of blew it off. But later, when things started to fall apart my mind went back to that information. When I was in the midst of making the decision to leave TWI back in 2000 and ultimately did decide to leave, John's website was one of the the links in a long chain of things that helped me come to that decision. There was information on his website that helped me put pieces of the puzzle together, helped me understand a bit of what I was experiencing and why.. That is about as much as I care to say publicly. If you have a question and want to PM me, that's fine - I can't promise I will answer, it depends on the question.
2. I don't know - who does get the praise? If John's site helps people heal is that a praisworthy event? Should God get praised for leading people to John's site and helping them be healed of hurts? Should John get less glory for how his websites heals people than VPW gets for "leading people to God"?
I guess each individual must decide within themselves when and for what reasons to give glory to God or to give glory to an individual or both or neither.
I'm going to venture a guess that johnj does more than just go after TWI.
I see areas in the Bible where people are warned about false prophets, bad leaders, etc. This gets balanced with lots of "Good News."
I know that johnj's life is not spent in hot persuit of TWI.
Here's a question for you, Larry...an honest question:
Who gets the glory if TWI is not exposed? Who gets the Glory if those who are still in and lurking don't get a peak at at least some of what is written in the various forums?
According to some that have recently left, there are still lurkers that come to read and things like johnj's works have helped them.
I'd say that from there, it takes those people to thank God for leading them to a place where they could find some reasons to leave. It also takes some of us here to make sure these folks see that God gets the glory. This can happen in many ways, as I'm sure you know.
Oh, you were on ignore...I do read when others paste or reply.
No, not offended with your question to john...just the way you tend to bully everyone...shrug
I understand that you must place a tag or lable on me...it makes it easier to justify the rudeness and unkindness. It however isn`t a very shining endorsement for yourself or the God that you claim to represent...
Abi, correct me if I'm wrong but, are you saying John is justified in what he's doing because you have been helped as a result of it?
It doesn't.
Are the words highlighted in red yours?
If you have a question and want to PM me, that's fine - I can't promise I will answer, it depends on the question.
I'll keep that in mind.
2. I don't know - who does get the praise? If John's site helps people heal is that a praisworthy event? Should God get praised for leading people to John's site and helping them be healed of hurts? Should John get less glory for how his websites heals people than VPW gets for "leading people to God"?
Well, part of the attack on VPW is/was how he was glorified/praised and put on a pedestal. If you want to go by numbers -- meaning the number of people who have been helped -- I think VPW captured that "crown" hands down. If you want to go by the number of people who have been hurt I think he captured that "crown" also. Buttttttt . . . . How can you condemn him for the number of people he hurt but, not praise him for the number of people he helped?
I guess each individual must decide within themselves when and for what reasons to give glory to God or to give glory to an individual or both or neither.
I question the principle of praising people period. If it's God that is working in them both to do and to will of His good pleasure then they are just a conduit for God. Whenever we forget that we construct another idol to worship. Idols are not only made of stone. Now, that is not to say that we should not be thankful to people and the work they do.
Oh, you were on ignore...I do read when others paste or reply.
Oh, I see. You lack self-control.
No, not offended with your question to john...just the way you tend to bully everyone...shrug
Obviously, you don't see how YOU'RE trying to bully me. *sigh*
I understand that you must place a tag or lable on me...it makes it easier to justify the rudeness and unkindness. It however isn`t a very shining endorsement for yourself or the God that you claim to represent...
Well, since you've slapped a label on me let me live up to that label by saying: You can stick that crap up your a$$.
I don`t have a problem with condemning him for the people he hurt....shoot fire, I have no respect for him in regards for the people that were helped ....as invariably they simply drawn into his snare to be later used...
It`s kind of like bottle raising a calf, and spending the time and money to raise it ...feeding it calling the vet when it gets sick...sure...all of these things you do are to help it..... with the end view of butchering it when the time comes.
We weren`t much better`n live stock...some were mules to be worked, some of us cows to be milked, some of us butchered for consumption....any and all to be disposed of when our usefullness exhausted...
I'm going to venture a guess that johnj does more than just go after TWI.
I'm aware of that. I have read his response to a question of his (perceived) obsession with TWI.
I see areas in the Bible where people are warned about false prophets, bad leaders, etc. This gets balanced with lots of "Good News."
I'm aware of those verses.
I know that johnj's life is not spent in hot persuit of TWI.
Never said it was.
Here's a question for you, Larry...an honest question:
I'll try to give you an honest answer.
Who gets the glory if TWI is not exposed?
This is ignoring and/or focusing on everything that's wrong with TWI. Iow -- you've concluded that nothing good can come out of TWI and therefore people should be warned against them. We've been over this before - If God is leading people to TWI then either God sees some redeeming qualities and purpose for TWI or God is evil.
Who gets the Glory if those who are still in and lurking don't get a peak at at least some of what is written in the various forums?
Seems to me that Paw gets most of the glory. I don't know how many times I've heard/read people praise him for GS. I'm assuming you're referring to GS because I'm unaware of John having a forum.
According to some that have recently left, there are still lurkers that come to read and things like johnj's works have helped them.
According to others John's works are of the Devil. I guess it's a toss-up.
I'd say that from there, it takes those people to thank God for leading them to a place where they could find some reasons to leave. It also takes some of us here to make sure these folks see that God gets the glory. This can happen in many ways, as I'm sure you know.
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mamouda
Quote Teach. Apt to teach, he must be able to teach. Apt to teaching. I so believe that I’m apt to teach that when I finish tonight, I don’t expect any questions left over the
mamouda
I had to put up with one for 6 years after I divorced. I understand how Mrs W became another woman after he died! I wrote a blog about them while I was in this relationship and I learned so much doing
mamouda
Rocky I also can tell you I'm very frustrated because I have to unlearn the things I learned and I'm very bad at studying God's Word. So when I have a question I ask God to show me and He leads me to
Danny
Yes it was c.
Chris had not made a big splash yet at hq.
If you were in the sugar shack at the right time and could tell a big ole
story. And vp took a liking to you. You became king over night. If you could
Drink talk about women, guns, dogs, and motercycles
Put a bible spin on it at the right time and not look like you were sucking up
you were in the click.
One time at Rome City vp came to play in the woods.
My dad cut firewood for a living so for the most part i was raised with a
chain saw in my hand as a kid.
Any ho vp sticks the chain saw in the dirt and without thinking I reacted
becasue my dad did it to me so many times when I hit the dirt said to him
DON't Do That. He stood up and looked at me for a second it was at the teeter
tooter kind of second where he could of riped my head off or went the other way.
He said well how do you do it.
I knew right then he knew nothing about chain saws and he knew I did.
One of those moments.
In the sugar shack it was like that.
Men bs en and the next thing you know you are a reverand or limb guy
or if you are lucky a bus driver.
Chris just had one of those moments.
I ran with him every day for a long time so I sort of knew him.
It just was one of those moments where he slid into the drives seat.
He liked guns knives and dogs. he saw the hand writing and was willing to
eat a little sh-t.
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ex10
Danny,
I am sure you are right. All's I'm saying is, I was at HQ on staff, In 77 and 78, when there weren't very many staff members. I never saw Geer there. Like, never. ;) My memory might be questionable, but it ain't that bad. :unsure:
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now I see
Sounds like it was all a big Boys Club.
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waysider
Blast that dag- gone comma!
Does the word "big" modify the word "boys" or the word "club"?
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Bumpy
Did someone say SHARKS!!
FEMALE SHARKS WITH BIG WHITE TEETH!!! CALL THE LIFE GUARD!!
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waterbuffalo
Dooj, the same thing happened to me then and when he said Styles spoke to his wife so disrespectfully. Thanks for putting it into words. I've thought about it many times and remember thinking then he wasn't someone I should be associated with.
What do they say about knee-jerk reactions/first impressions, etc.? We apparently learned not to trust our gut reactions during our first classes. Interesting.
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Bumpy
I don’t know Tom, that’s a good question. I mean can you ever go back to first base when you round second?
It looks like a lot of this bible stuff is up for grabs around here, so why not start with “grace”?? “Believing”, is certainly being thrown about here rather liberally.
So what do you think? Is “Who” really on First??
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johnj
How early did VP go bad?
In the 2nd ed of RTHST in 1955, VP credited "a man" for teaching him about the Holy Spirit (he did capitalize the Holy Spirit back then, and JE Stiles was the man VP refused to name- probably because if anyone read Stiles' book and RTHST, they'd see that VP plagiarized it, and VP wanted to hide his academic theft).
The 3rd ed of RTHST two years later in 1957 leaves out the phrase about the man who taught him. In its place, we read VP says, "I prayed that I might put aside all I had heard and thought out myself, and I started anew with the Bible as my handbook as well as my textbok."
So in 1957 VP consciously decided to deceive his readers into thinking he had originated RTHST instead of stealing it. Besides conscious deception (lying) this shows a desire to promote himself as others' expense, arrogant and self-serving. He didn't slip, he made an early choice, and future lies like the non-existent Tulsa snowstorm showed he continued to make that conscious choice, and in fact formed his "ministry" around it.
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Dot Matrix
Amazing JJ!
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Dot Matrix
T-bone
You are pretty good at the funny stuff.
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Larry N Moore
John, when you stand before God on "Judgment Day" what reward do you think you'll receive for your crusade against VPW and TWI?
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waysider
Sometimes people just do what they consider "the right thing" without seeking a reward.
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Larry N Moore
Sometimes people murder someone because they consider it "the right thing" to do and don't expect to be rewarded for it. And probably don't expect to be judged for it either.
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Abigail
I don't know Larry, as someone who never knew VPW, but recognizes his life had an impact on mine, I find the information about RTHS interesting.
Does it have an impact on how I live my life today - Nope, not at all. Nonetheless, I have spend some amount of time trying to figure out what was good and bad about TWI and how much of the bad was purely manipulation for selfish purposes based on the part of various leadership. Why do I care? I don't know beyond some part of me still wants to try and make sense of it all, it was 10 years of my life afterall - and the last 5 of them became pretty horrible. Even to this day I still deal with it, there are still "issues" stemming from my involvement. So such information is relavant in my mind.
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rascal
Why does information about vpw make you so uncomfortable Larry?
Why is it so important to you personally to obstruct the truth concerning his behavior?
Why are you more offended with people who talk about what he did rather than be outraged with him for actually doing these things??
Why would any person of character, integrity, and honesty wish to hide this mans misdeeds?
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Larry N Moore
Abi, correct me if I'm wrong but, are you saying John is justified in what he's doing because you have been helped as a result of it?
It doesn't.
I'm not.I'm not offended.
The questions I have are: Does this glorify God? Who gets the praise?
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rascal
Obviously you DO or are you just generally this disagreeable?
Who gets glorified? who gets the praise?? I dunno..why not ask these questions of Jesus when he was confronting the religious leaders of his day who were hurting people?
I would ask of you...who gets glorified and gets praised when you act so ugly to those here whom you CAN see??
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Larry N Moore
Obviously you are offended that I would have the audacity to even ask John such a question.
You understand very little about the ministry of Jesus -- obviously.*sigh* Rascal, I suggest you follow through on what you previously decided. Put me on ignore. Obviously you're too emotionally delicate to handle my comments and questions.
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Abigail
1. I have no opinion regarding John's "justification", really, I never even gave it a single thought. But yes, the work he has done has helped me and I suspect it has helped many others.
The short version as best I can do it is that a minister I knew from another church (who may actually know John, now that I think back on it) brought me information from John's website long before I ever left TWI. At that time I sort of blew it off. But later, when things started to fall apart my mind went back to that information. When I was in the midst of making the decision to leave TWI back in 2000 and ultimately did decide to leave, John's website was one of the the links in a long chain of things that helped me come to that decision. There was information on his website that helped me put pieces of the puzzle together, helped me understand a bit of what I was experiencing and why.. That is about as much as I care to say publicly. If you have a question and want to PM me, that's fine - I can't promise I will answer, it depends on the question.
2. I don't know - who does get the praise? If John's site helps people heal is that a praisworthy event? Should God get praised for leading people to John's site and helping them be healed of hurts? Should John get less glory for how his websites heals people than VPW gets for "leading people to God"?
I guess each individual must decide within themselves when and for what reasons to give glory to God or to give glory to an individual or both or neither.
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doojable
I'm going to venture a guess that johnj does more than just go after TWI.
I see areas in the Bible where people are warned about false prophets, bad leaders, etc. This gets balanced with lots of "Good News."
I know that johnj's life is not spent in hot persuit of TWI.
Here's a question for you, Larry...an honest question:
Who gets the glory if TWI is not exposed? Who gets the Glory if those who are still in and lurking don't get a peak at at least some of what is written in the various forums?
According to some that have recently left, there are still lurkers that come to read and things like johnj's works have helped them.
I'd say that from there, it takes those people to thank God for leading them to a place where they could find some reasons to leave. It also takes some of us here to make sure these folks see that God gets the glory. This can happen in many ways, as I'm sure you know.
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rascal
Oh, you were on ignore...I do read when others paste or reply.
No, not offended with your question to john...just the way you tend to bully everyone...shrug
I understand that you must place a tag or lable on me...it makes it easier to justify the rudeness and unkindness. It however isn`t a very shining endorsement for yourself or the God that you claim to represent...
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Larry N Moore
Abi, let me first say I appreciate your candor.
Abi, correct me if I'm wrong but, are you saying John is justified in what he's doing because you have been helped as a result of it?
It doesn't.
Are the words highlighted in red yours?
I'll keep that in mind.
Well, part of the attack on VPW is/was how he was glorified/praised and put on a pedestal. If you want to go by numbers -- meaning the number of people who have been helped -- I think VPW captured that "crown" hands down. If you want to go by the number of people who have been hurt I think he captured that "crown" also. Buttttttt . . . . How can you condemn him for the number of people he hurt but, not praise him for the number of people he helped?I question the principle of praising people period. If it's God that is working in them both to do and to will of His good pleasure then they are just a conduit for God. Whenever we forget that we construct another idol to worship. Idols are not only made of stone. Now, that is not to say that we should not be thankful to people and the work they do.
Oh, I see. You lack self-control.
Obviously, you don't see how YOU'RE trying to bully me. *sigh*Well, since you've slapped a label on me let me live up to that label by saying: You can stick that crap up your a$$.
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rascal
I don`t have a problem with condemning him for the people he hurt....shoot fire, I have no respect for him in regards for the people that were helped ....as invariably they simply drawn into his snare to be later used...
It`s kind of like bottle raising a calf, and spending the time and money to raise it ...feeding it calling the vet when it gets sick...sure...all of these things you do are to help it..... with the end view of butchering it when the time comes.
We weren`t much better`n live stock...some were mules to be worked, some of us cows to be milked, some of us butchered for consumption....any and all to be disposed of when our usefullness exhausted...
Oh yeah...I`m gonna thank him for that??
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Larry N Moore
I'm aware of that. I have read his response to a question of his (perceived) obsession with TWI.
I'm aware of those verses.Never said it was.
I'll try to give you an honest answer.This is ignoring and/or focusing on everything that's wrong with TWI. Iow -- you've concluded that nothing good can come out of TWI and therefore people should be warned against them. We've been over this before - If God is leading people to TWI then either God sees some redeeming qualities and purpose for TWI or God is evil.
Seems to me that Paw gets most of the glory. I don't know how many times I've heard/read people praise him for GS. I'm assuming you're referring to GS because I'm unaware of John having a forum.According to others John's works are of the Devil. I guess it's a toss-up.
Yes, I know there are many roads to Chicago. :)
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