False Prophet or Good Minister with problems?

[ex10]

Sky

Ok, also remember VP's paranoid side. Who understood his paranoia? Which of his sidekicks trained attack dogs and packed a gun. Geer did. VP thought his life was in jeopardy. Throw that into the mix.

Edited August 6, 2007 by ex10

[skyrider]

Sky

Ok, also remember VP's paranoid side. Who understood his paranoia? Which of his sidekicks trained attack dogs and packed a gun. Geer did. VP thought his life was in jeopardy. Throw that into the mix.

Excellent point, ex10

[now I see]

Hadn't there been a huge power strugle amongst the "top" men before Craig was given the Grand Poobah job? Wasn't it between Geer, the Forehead, and others?

Hadn't there been a huge jockeying for position durring the Advance Class '79 between all the contenders backstage, falling all over themselves to prove they should be the next MOG?

As far as Geer's devotion to VP goes, I had heard in residence that Geer had listened to every SNS and recorded teaching in the Emporia and TWI library that VP had ever taught, and had taken detailed notes on each-very devoted to VP...probably in the worship category.

Thanks, Sunesis for what you posted in the begining of this thread, it made me cry...and has given me the "sunesis" on the matter that I needed.

I hate the secrecy, the veil that was established by VP and his conspirers to keep the truth-the reality of what it really was about-from the rest of us. I feel bad for all of us, thinking we were so spiritual and thinking all the leadership was sooo spiritual and our "tupos" of how we should be, and being duped by him, the others, and the organization.

Edited August 6, 2007 by but now I see

[ex10]

but now I see

To answer your question, uh, no, as far as Geer being in the running. He didn't "rise to power" til after that. VPW was very much the kingpin at AC '79. He had a large pool of synchophants to choose from at that point, and Geer wasn't one of them. My opinion only.

[skyrider]

As far as Geer's devotion to VP goes, I had heard in residence that Geer had listened to every SNS and recorded teaching in the Emporia and TWI library that VP had ever taught, and had taken detailed notes on each-very devoted to VP...probably in the worship category.

Yes..........and upon his 7th corps graduation, Chris and Barbara were assigned to Vpw's and Mrs. personal duties......valet, bus driver, bodyguard, messenger, gate-keeper, etc.

Chris and Barbara had minutely studied vpw's eating habits, likes and dislikes, coffee-drambuie sipping, type of china used, mints snaped in two, how to handle tick, reading the same types of books as vpw, etc. etc.

Chris was one who took this over-the-top mog worship to new levels. Guess its not all that surprising that wierwille gave him a whole continent to oversee....since neither his ego or craig's ego could be in the same room together without conflict.

[now I see]

Well, I was told that from someone who'd been in the running for the job, and who'd been backstage at that event, they could have said that to me just to inflate their own ego.....which is something they were good at...they learned it from the best.

[dmiller]

Wierwille starts having more eye problems......Wierwille wrecks the motorcycle in Canada. Under secrecy, the motorcycle is hauled back to hq and repaired in the most hush/hush environment.

WHAT??? This is something (else) I never heard.

[ex10]

Well, not only that....but.....think about the push and pull of the guys "on the field," and the ones who never got out there and risked themselves. LCM went in-rez in the 2nd corps, and forever after lived in the sheltered environment of Emporia or HQ.

He wasn't the only one. There were those who felt like they were the ones "in the trenches" doing the heavy lifting of the "ministry," who had little respect for those who stayed in their comfy trailers at HQ. Tis the stuff soap operas are made of. :B)

[doojable]

A house divided against itself cannot stand.

[anotherDan]

I guess I'll be the first and possibly only post-er to sympathetically regard Dr. Wierwille. Regardless of all the evidence that has been leveled against him here and otherwise, I can't convict him of sexual immorality. I can't say that I've read it all. Some of it seems credible. And obviously, some who are posting here claim first-hand knowledge. I suspect that both VPW and OJ Simpson are guilty, but I don't know that. What I do know is the each of us will stand before God in the person of Jesus Christ, and make an account for the things that are done in our bodies.

Obviously, many view themselves as protectors of the innocent, exposers of evil, etc. That may be or not be true. There may be other motivations of which even the person representing them is unaware. You are quick to suppose this is true with VPW! (Or even the more blatant, that he wasn't decieved, but knew all along his evil plan!) My own heart felt certain that he was fallible, prideful, and very foolish at times. I witnessed an incident with him and Mrs. Wierwille that I felt was "telling" of his character, and it made me wince. (It was similar to something already posted. Probably not the same.)

I loved the man in spite of the faults I saw in him. After he died and all these allegations came out, I felt even more wounded that he might have done some of these things. Certainly, it would be a betrayal to what he preached. But (and this is more "evidence" against him) he didn't really preach sexual purity, or "holiness" in general. Later in life, I've made corrections to that aspect of my understanding of the will of God. (More properly, it was the teaching of others that helped me to that conviction, and the spirit itself, which I guess is saying the same thing.)

You're all right, and entitled, to examine the fruit of someone's life in light of the truth. You're right to comfort the wounded and to pray for them, to assist them in any authentic way to get healed of their wounds. You're right to condemn manipulation, sexual immorality, and pride. He is going to need some serious forgiveness, regardless. So am I, and so are you.

I've struggled to re-order my understanding of the scriptures in light of all that's gone on, and the accusations are just a part of that. Evaluating the doctrine, which many of you have done as well, is also very important and constructive. But I feel I need to love you all in spite of some of the faults I see in you as well! It's not just distasteful, but quite contrary to the scriptures to backbite, slander, and tell tales. You may reply that verity is a defence against the charge of slander. Is it? Are these "idle words" acceptable to God? "May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in Thy sight."

The kind of forgiveness Jesus taught was one of what I call "the impossible commands." It's not impossible, of course, to forgive one's enemies, to love those who hate us, who despitefully use us -- to love our enemies. Jesus did it, and as we all know, "he that believeth on me, the works that I do..." "Father, forgive them...." Impossible, in a sense, but all things are possible with God. As many fine Christian preachers have taught, there is a marvelous side-effect of forgiveness. It seems to set the offended one free. <insert great quote, even if it's only from memory, and may not be exact>

unforgiveness is the poison we take, trying to kill another

Really, you gotta do what you gotta do. Obviously, it would be callous not to recognize that there are those here who are dealing with a lot of pain. Along with that, though, there is a definite (IMO) smug-fest that just doesn't seem right to me.

I have a TON of good fruit in my life as a result of my involvement with the man. That fruit abides today in my children, as well, and I believe it will abide in their children. I've had to recant attitudes and beliefs to my kids. I've had to tell them that I was sorry it took me so long to grow up in some categories. In some ways I really failed them miserably, and if God takes me to task about my sins, he will have plenty from which to choose. But this ongoing process of sanctification, of cleansing and being cleansed, of pursuing holiness, is the will of God. And it is a process. It does NOT come in "spiritual celophane" BOOM! when you get "born again."

Jesus said a bad tree cannot bear good fruit, etc. I see both in the life of VPW, and in my own. I don't know what to do with that.

It was unwise not to cite his sources for his "stolen" material, but we're all standing on the shoulders of those who went before us. Many times, he gave credit (I heard him!) to BG Leonard, Rufus Mosely, etc. But the wholesale paraphrasing was literally a violation of copyright laws, as Dr.J has so painstakingly presented. There a people out there who have gotten over it, they have thrown out the bathwater and kept the baby. Some, like you and me, are still working on that.

You go on and do what you've gotta do. I don't like it, I don't think it's helping as much as you might think, and yet I have to leave you for the Lord to judge, just as I do with VPW. He is the one that knows the thoughts and intents of the hearts. He'll lay open the motivations of mortal men. He judges righteously. I do NOT accept the judgements pronounced upon him so often in these threads. I do not think it is godly or healthy to do so. (If we're going to be doing what the scriptures say, how about trying this on for size: "judge not, lest ye be judged.")

[doojable]

Thanks for your comments AnotherDan.

I see where you're coming from and I hear you. In my heart and mind there are two things to consider here. First - while it isn't for me to judge - God has given us criteria to ascertain a wolf in sheep's clothing for a reason.

Second, I can certainly forgive a person and I have forgiven him. In order to do that I must still recognize that I have things to forgive him for.

I have more to add - but I need to find the words...

[ex10]

My question to you, another dan, is, did you know him personally?

[now I see]

You know those of us who never interacted with VP or who were able to observe his actions away from the podium spotlight, only saw a one dimentional side of him, his public persona.  We never saw the dichotomy of his Jekle and Hyde personality and actions.  We would not be able to make a judgment on his fruit since the only fruit we ever saw was veiled and wrapped in the coating of the scriptures, a charismatic orator and salesman marketer.  We never saw his "bad" fruit ever, or could link any directly to him.  It muddies the waters to not know this information in formulating anything other than a positive judgement on his ministry. Plus, we were fed and swallowed his version of how the ministry started, we thought it came from him.

Perverted our judgemnt it did.

I once worked for a narcissistic boss who was also a sociopath that would often tell us "I wish I were the man I know to be" stories about himself so that we could feel sorry for him, give him empathy and warm brotherhood fraternal feelings.  At the time, I wondered how two such different personalities could reside in the same man.  But it was a planned design to manipulate the employees to get them to do what he wanted, he was a master at motivating people's loyalty to himself-when in reality he was a con artist-someone who had actually run a prostitute ringfrom his house and who had been an exotic dancer himself-involved with a shady lifestyle and questionable business practices.  He would stop at nothing to further his own career, and would often "buy" the aligence of coworkers for the cost of luch on him for the day.  Anyone who wasn't useful to him or called him out was maligned and run out.  Sounds a lot like the tactics doc vic employeed on us.

No wonder it was told that in '78 the 3rd Corps and other HQ lifers were sent out on the field for a year and kicked out of headquarters cause they were "too negative against Vp and had gotten too used to the HQ 

'lifestyle' ", as it was said to me, I really didn't understand how that could happen at the time, but now I do.

I wonder how crusty and cynical the people-leadership around him became as they tried to imitate him or live in the liberty that he espoused.

I also read somewhere that Vp was taking a draw close to a million bucks a year as salery, I wonder if that's true too.

[ex10]

"No wonder it was told that in '78 the 3rd Corps and other HQ lifers were sent out on the field for a year and kicked out of headquarters cause they were "too negative against Vp and had gotten too used to the HQ lifestyle' ", as it was said to me, I really didn't understand how that could happen at the time, but now I do."

I worked on staff that year, while the 3rd corps was back "in-rez." I never heard that in those words. But somehow it makes sense.

Edited August 6, 2007 by ex10

[anotherDan]

Thanks, Dooj Take your time. These issues have to do with EACH of us, individually. You're a thoughtful person, and I agree, we have indeed been given the charge to know men by their fruits.

Ex10, if I were in a shootin' match with many people here, I couldn't match their knowing of him "personally." I didn't enter residence until after he died. I was WOW four times and held various responsibilities, including local music ministry, and he sought me out on a number of occasions (is that spelled correctly?) and we talked one-on-one. I also helped Howard Allen take care of him on a visit to California. I saw a dark side of him a number of times, in large groups and small.

But now i see: You may have been typing while I was posting, or you're just ignoring me (which is fine!) but your post is a mild illustration of what I'm talking about. "But Now I Speculate" "But Now I Pass On Rumors"

[ex10]

I saw a dark side of him a number of times, in large groups and small.

And so would you fault those of us who were nearby for years for trying to make sense out of "what we saw?"

[Larry N Moore]

So you have a differing opinion. Excellent.

:) I'm not sure what's so excellent about it. The way that "sounds" brings to mind a vision of a shark smelling blood on the water.

This is a thread asking if we think about vp being a false prophet or good minister with problems, so please state your side or your story.

Actually, that's not entirely correct. The second part of the OP asked why we (who think he was a false prophet) thought he was a good minister. Which if you asked me (I know you didn't) seems a bit contradictory. Why would I (if I thought he was a false prophet) think he was a good minister? You added the "with problems." part.

Now, having read through the remainder of this thread (following your inquisitive post) I'm inclined not to bother with this subject or answering your question with any detail. No matter what opinion I have to share I really don't think most of the participants on this thread are really interested in it. Their minds are convinced that he was not only a false prophet but an evil man as well. Besides -- anotherdan pretty much expressed my thinking on this matter (with a few exceptions).

So Eyes, I'll just leave you and everyone on this thread to their own devices. Enjoy!

[anotherDan]

No, ex10, I would not. And anyone who is a friend of Roy's is a friend of mine. It's been a while, though, and after all this time, my point is that it doesn't make sense on one level, and that's what my post was about.

[ex10]

my point is that it doesn't make sense on one level

Not trying to pick on you, I promise. But what doesn't make sense to you, makes total sense to me. That's the beauty of this place.

Edited August 6, 2007 by ex10

[anotherDan]

I risk being a two-faced judgmental person (or just mental!) by advancing what I did. I'm aware of that. But I do it in good faith, and with the hope that y'all might consider that it represents what others may think as they "lurk," but perhaps are not willing to jump and and be odd-man-out. Maybe, too, a non-poster will have something else to think about than all this other (sigh!) stuff... it's about possibilities, and yes, about discussion. My email address is available to anyone who views my profile. If anyone wants to have a non-public conversation, I would welcome that. I'm also "here" to discuss the issues in this forum, at least for a while. ("sickness of heart" rung a bell with me!)

fine with me, Ex10, like I said, you gotta do what you gotta do

Heck, how do you spell judgemental? Judgmental? That can't be right.

Edited August 6, 2007 by anotherDan

[ex10]

Oh geeze, another dan. Pleeze don't apologize for speaking your mind!! Your opinion and experience counts just as much as anybody else's. I tend to be a loud mouth when I get on a subject I'm passionate about. Pleeze forgive.

I never meant to minimilize your thoughts and opinions. I apologize.

[anotherDan]

No offense taken. None at all. (I tend to accuse myself before others accuse me!)

I'm serious about the private communication. A lot of times, we act differently in "public"... we need to save face, etc. I really would welcome corresponding with any of you main players / high-number post-ers, as well as with "lurkers" who are uncomfortable here. I'm still in the family... trying to be. And I need help myself, sorting out a lot of issues!

It's 1:30 here in DE.... "up all night in the thick of the fight" (great Stephen Stills song... "seen enough") But I'll check back tomorrow and see if I need to reply to anyone. May the Lord bless you and keep you!

[doojable]

I think that a lot of what goes on here can be categorized as "processing."

Coming to an understanding of what we did and why we did it comes in layers. This is complicated by the fact that for a lot of us, we got in TWI because we were seeking God and His will - and that journey hasn't come to an end.

For myself, I sometimes wonder how much more I could have done for Him had I not had the detour. I find myself asking forgiveness of those who I got in TWI - especially those that had a particularly rough time while in.

Perhaps if I had said, "Screw it all. I'm going fishing...." then I'd be happy as a clam right now. (no pun intended ;)) The truth is that I find myself holding my own feet to the fire with each and every thing that I find that I missed. I have mourned the times I could have helped a Corps sister or brother if I had only known what was bugging them.

I wouldn't call it an "arrested development," but perhaps a "missed ministry" or a ministry that was held in abeyance...

Edited August 6, 2007 by doojable

[WordWolf]

Yeah.....what you said.

I've brought this information forward before......BUT since there are some new folks around, I'll review some of it. According to Mrs. Wierwille, the up-front EYE-WITNESS of vpw's life and ministry, reveals lots of information in her book Born Again to Serve that was published in 1996. According to Mrs. Wierwille, vpw was growing weary of his ministry work and was strongly thinking about quitting....and looking for secular employment. He was frustrated and going nowhere.

THEN......knowing a year earlier (??) that Rev. BG Leonard had specifically prayed for their daughter and she was healed AND that Leonard was running his Receiving the Holy Spirit classes in Calgary, Alberta, Canada...wierwille phoned BG and flew up there for this February 1953 class. Leonard's ministry and class material THRILLED vpw [Mrs. W's book documents it in her words....thrilled] and vpw takes Mrs. and Don and two carloads of his following to the next class, in June/July of 1953.

Wierwille is a grad of this June/July class and is NOT in the class photo. After this class ends, wierwille heads home and starts signing up relatives, friends and neighbors for "his" October class. With no class syllabi, no charts, no handouts.....wierwille teaches Leonard's class material. Those who attended the Calgary class are considered grads and do not have to pay any registration fee. Seems like Leonard's class format, class photo, registration policies, etc.......were wierwille's new policies, as well.

Add to this.....The Way was incorporated that SAME year, 1953.

When all of this background information is added to wierwille's character and boastings of God's revelation to him and all.......it's obvious to me that wierwille was little more than a business man, a peddler of someone else's material.

Sure, there were pockets of truth in pfal.........so? Much of the pfal foundation was Rev. Leonards' material. It really doesn't take rocket science to connect the dots.

And, when one looks at wierwille's personal life.......narcisstic traits, arrogance, outbursts of anger, degradation of women, pride, bullying, controlling......it all lends toward a man who's life mirrors DECADES OF DECEPTION. He systematically built an inner circle of yes-men (with business savvy, once again) who defied the many red-flags while he lived......BUT with the internet and the passing of time, "those onced silenced are NOW raising their voices."

At the near end of his life, wierwille ANSWERED "the man in the glass" and publically stated his disapproval with his own life and lifestyle by saying, "I wish I were the man I know to be." Not much of a confession, but after DECADES OF DECEPTION......perhaps even he believed his own hype and persona.

<_<

When I spoke with Rev. JD before he died, I asked him many questions from a historical point of view - he and several others were the main players/founders of the Jesus Movement. I wanted to know the history before the ones God called were gone.

He said, one of the main reasons VP came and sought him out was because he had heard there were Christian groups doing orgies. VP wanted in, and wanted back up for this from the Bible - how they had worked it out.

JD said it was more of a swingers party and after one episode never went back but VP kept pestering him for details.

When VP made his famous trip to SF that summer, I was astounded to learn (well.. I guess I really shouldn't have been), that VP spent his free time at the SF porno theaters. Right, really comitted to outreach he was - Not.

VP just targeted the 5 "leaders" of the movement. If he could get some of them, he figured he was on his way.

VP also earlier, fellowshipped with what later were called the Tulsa renegade preachers - all the people he knew, Stiles, Clark, Star Daily, Rufus Mosely, etc. were of this group. After WWII when the country started prospering, they all felt they could make more money if they started their own ministries. Most of them did. VP did too.

I believe it became VP's quest to find something he could market. He wasn't bright enough, or Christian enough to write his own books from his own insights and relationship with God. That's why, when he ran across BG Leonard and his class and was so excited about it, it was because - eureka - I've found my goldmine.

For most people who enjoyed twig and PFAL and the classes available, he was a wonderful old guy. And yes, the Word we heart taught saved so many and lives were healed - too bad this teaching came from BG's heart and not VP's.

I think its those of us who went in the corps who got to see his Jeckyl/Hyde personality.

I always had the dichotomy in my mind - how could the Word and God be so great and in private our "teacher" was such a prick? Cruel to his wife, those around him, drunk many times (drambuie in the coffee or morning 7-up), nasty temper, with his own harem of women, publically humiliating his wife by living in the motorcoach when he was home - not with her. Once he had various women they were tossed away or passed around to others, porno movies for the corps' "learning" - how could this be? Really, how could this be?

It was GS that allowed me to realize, simple. He taught another man's class and work as if it was his own. He hijacked it. And since, because he was "the teacher" and the "man of God for our day and time" much of this was overlooked and the people on the field had no clue.

I believe he was in it for the money. One of the reasons his first people left him, as one said, he had started getting money from the classes and went out and bought a nice new Harley. When this man found out he had done this with supposedly "non-profit" money, he told him he could no longer work with him.

How much material possessions did he amass? Motorcoach, plane, thousands in wardrobe, new cars every year - 5 Harleys (he had a couple he kept at Emporia most people didn't know about), an auditorium, a compound, buildings, land, neighboring farms, houses for his family, and so much more - whatever he wanted, he got. He built an earthly, material kingdom.

How did he do this? I worked in finance in payroll. Simple. In public, he'd show people his paycheck, but in private, we'd get the notes, I'm going shopping tomorrow, please have $500 waiting for me, or other requests. He and his top leaders were given lots of money "off the books."

The man amassed an earthly, material kingdom. Did the heavenly kingdom coming ever cross his mind?

If it did, it was at the end, when he started whining - I wish I was the man I know to be.

People always thought it was so wonderful he said that. I always thought it came from a man who knew he had blown it in this life and couldn't go back and redo it. I think he was very afraid to meet his maker. He was not looking forward to it.

In fact, the Holy Spirit's job is to convict all mankind, I cannot tell you how many testimonies I have read where the person knew, it was then or there make a decision, deathbed accounts where people literally told the people around them, as they were being urged to accept Christ, that they just couldn't do it, it was too late, and would relate specifically when in their life they had had their chance.

I don't think VP really accepted Christ, from his actions. I think he did have an "intellectual" interest in the Bible though. He had to, he had to keep up his public persona as "the man of God."

Then, in true sociopathic form, near the end, he runs off to CG and complains and bitches about everyone and everything in the ministry. Nothing was his fault - oh no... Gee, everyone had let him down, poor me. He was angry. What does he do in his last hours? Watch sports on tv. I think, if I was really concerned about my salvation at the end, I wouldn't be watching tv.

I believe he was a false prophet - and why would we marvel at this? "For such men are false apostles, deceitful workman, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. Is it not surprising then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness." "They entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves to depravity."

I guess that just about sums up VP for me.

I'm putting all this together in one huge post for convenience of the reader.

I'm reposting my twi timeline, which was the result of the entire

"the way:living in wonderland" thread.

Anyone wanting to see documentation for any item in the timeline,

it's right in the thread, complete with discussions of each and every item.

This is version 5.6, the last one I've done to date.

(I really should get to a 6.0 version soon.)

===============

This timeline is mostly from publications OF TWI.

=========

Let's see.

victor paul wierwille was born to a large family of German descent.

(Born December 31, 1916.)

According to locals, Ernst, his father, was an alcoholic with negligible

education, with a bad temper who acted as a bully.This was true in his dealings

with locals AND with his own family.Each child had their own chores.

Little Victor chose to neglect his chores, and would vanish for hours into the woods nearby.

(It has been noted that this running off may have been as much to avoid

an abusive father as it was to avoid doing any work. Or it may be unrelated.)

He claimed that when he was young, he once told a minister that he wanted to be

a man of God like him. Other than this statement, Little Victor showed

no actual involvement in the church, no actual effort or work in the things of the church.

So, this seems to suggest an interest-not in being a man of God- but in being

the man the whole community turned out to see, to have their respect.

As a teenager, young Vic continued to lack any qualities of a man of God. In fact, he went out of

his way to earn a reputation going in the opposite direction. He was a bully, a showoff and a braggart.

(He seems to have been taught this at home.)He did all sorts of things for attention. He was quick

to start a fight or mouth off at others. He had a quick wit. One of his common ways of showing off

was to tear up and down the streets of New Knoxville on his motorcycle, trying to get attention.

His demonstrated talents seemed to be limited to his quick wit and his ability to play a guitar,

which he showed competency in.

Old Man Wierwille was preparing to pass on thefamily farm to young Vic, as was the family

tradition. Young Vic balked at this. He'd had plans to go to college. At first, he considered

a few fields-business and so on- but by this time, he had decided upon the seminary.

(This was before the time he referred to as "believing the Bible as the Word of God".)

Old Man Wierwille was skeptical of this, and said that young Vic, having shown lack

of hard work on simple manual labour on the farm, would never make a good preacher.

Young Vic convinced him he would do better with books than with sweating out in the field.

Young Vic went to school for the ministry.

His community thought it was some kind of joke- everyone knew he lacked the proper character.

(He never overcame that impression with them.)

Victor had the option to study "Bible Languages" or other subjects requiring hard study. He instead

chose to study Homiletics, the "softest" option he could have learned. (He never overcame his

deficiency in study in Bible languages, church history, etc.-not even to the level of an informed

layman as of 2004.)

Victor was married July 2, 1937(Mr was 20, Mrs was 21). According to vpw, he and Mrs W married

secretly while he was still in college. No reason for this was ever given.

Victor suggested he played on his college's basketball team, and that after college

he played on the professional team "the Sheboygan Redskins." His claim of each was

phrased ambiguously ("I played basketball all through college" "I was involved in the

Sheboygan Redskins") and the purpose seems to have been so that he was believed

to have said he did both without actually making the claims. Later, he began

making claims that he also "invented the hook shot" at this time.

He graduated with a BA from Lakeland College in 1937. Donald was born in 1940.

Victor graduated Princeton Theological Seminary in 1941, with a Masters in Practical Theology.

He did his "trial sermons" in 1941 in Payne, Ohio for the Evangelical and Reformed Church.

According to his memorial in 1985, he started his first pastorate July 1941,

and was ordained July 29, 1941.

(According to his account in TW:LIL, his first pastorate began in 1944 in Van Wert, Ohio,

and continued until 1957.)

Victor entered his first pastorate and wasted little time becoming a bully and a

control freak AGAIN. He himself claimed he started his job by immediately

doing whatever the elders told him not to do- even though it hampered his ability to do his job

properly. According to him, they confronted him on this, he mouthed off at them, and they just

let him go about his business, and the local church prospered as a direct result of him.

He was known for building a fairly interesting sermon, and getting people involved,

including the youths. (This was STILL before the time when he claimed he believed

the Bible was the Word of God.)

He said the following year, (1942) he slowly became discouraged and was searching.

He was still the man he had been, which is to say he was prideful, arrogant, boastful,

liked attention, and viewed the clergy as a PROFESSION and not a holy calling.

(He could have been just as "called" as an accountant or actuary, say.)

During 1942, he claimed he was ready to give up being a minister.

About a year later (Payne, 1942, August), he met Rosal1nd R1nker. She was a former

missionary to China and Korea. She's remembered as the anonymous person

who asks vpw

"Why don't you search for the greatest of all things in life

which would teach Christians the HOW of a really victorious life?"

This woman fixed a great deal of attention on him, and had a forceful personality.

She spent some time with him alone. It was of this time that he later claimed

he asked forgiveness of God. He also credits her with DOGGING HIM

"on the Bible being the Word of God",

and she "got me STARTED on the right track".

which, until this time, he hadn't believed, not even in all his years of school.

During 1942, he claimed he was ready to give up being a minister in August AND September.

One month later (September 1942), an event happened that he later showed a habit of re-writing.

As Victor told God he was getting ready to quit (again), He claimed that God spoke to him and said

He (God) would teach him (Victor) His Word (God's Word)

like it had not been known since the 1st century,

if he (Victor) would teach it to others.

(This is the famous 1942 promise.)

vpw did not discuss this event with anyone until he told the early corps-according to Mrs W.

Thus, the earliest possible origin-point of this story is 1969,

when the "zero corps" was begun.

Victor of course lacked the education in church history to contextualize this claim-

since it was inaccurate as stated. This implies that this was a made-up story,

or it came from a god lacking knowledge in history.

Victor later added a second part to his story- a snowstorm.

He said that he required PROOF of God, and asked God to let him see it snow.

A moment later, he opened his eyes, and he saw a veritable blizzard out his window.

The later addition to this story suggest that he felt it needed more support

after using the initial story. Victor showed no marked improvement, neither in

character, nor in behaviour, thru the rest of the 1940s (nearly the entire decade after this

supposed promise), which strongly supports the rather direct assertion that he lied thru his teeth.

vpw referred to this as one of the two most significant days of his life.

October 3, 1942, vpw did his first radio broadcast. He continued to do a radio show

under one name or another for several years- Vesper Chimes, aka Chimes Hour Youth

Caravan. Its name changes to Chimes Hour Youth Caravan in 1947.

Rhoda joined its staff in 1947.

(Supposedly, the name "the Way" was in the documentation for this group since 1942.)

In 1948, vpw was issued a "Doctorate" from Pikes Peak Seminary, an organization lacking

accreditation and formal classes (among other things.)

At some point, vpw began claiming that he took EVERY class

Moody Bible School's Correspondence program issued.

According to official records at Moody, vpw never turned in a single class of

their correspondence school. This may mean he took classes and never

finished ANY (which indicates laziness), or that he was lying about taking

any of their classes.

At one point, Rufus Moseley attempted to minister Holy Spirit to vpw, but vpw demonstrated

an inability to receive it. In 1951, he visited missionaries in Honduras.

In 1951, vpw made another claim he was ready to give up on the ministry

(even after, supposedly a direct promise of God about really important stuff

which promptly failed to materialize.)

In November, 1951, vpw attended the Full Gospel Rally, in Tulsa, Oklahoma

(a big Evangelical conference.) He made several claims of this conference.

People at the conference OTHER than vpw supposedly had no difficulty beginning

speaking in tongues. He claimed he faked speaking in tongues in a clever

way, and others were unable to tell. He was further disillusioned about working for God.

He then claimed a miraculous snowstorm blocked him into the city entirely, and

ALL the evidence there NO blizzard whatsoever (and there was a WEALTH of evidence

-at the airports, Amtrak and bus depot, the hotel staff, the attendees,

etc) was concealed by angels. vpw also, apparently, never approached a window,

or they made an illusion at the window.

vpw has referred to this as one of the two most significant days of his life.

(Many people currently feel that vpw completely made up the story that God spoke

to him in 1942, and that his dependence upon this event plus the event at the

Full Gospel Rally to establish his authority were both dressed up with made-up

snowstorms to make them sound more spectacular. The specifics of both

appear to support this position-especially since vpw was fond of increasing

the magnitude of his claims in things as time went on.)

Supposedly, a woman came up to him and told him that she knew a man who can help him-

JE Stiles. He claims God told Stiles to attend the conference with the sole purpose

of ministering the Spirit to vpw. vpw met with Stiles, and made a few chauvinistic

observations to himself, before going off with Stiles.

Stiles worked with him for a few hours nonstop, hammering across to vpw what

the Bible says on speaking in tongues, and working over his doubts one by one.

Finally, vpw was able to speak in tongues.

It was during the 1950s that vpw's behaviour was noted to finally improve,

although he still did not stop including inappropriate words or concepts in his sermons.

In March, 1953, vpw found out about BG Leonard, and pushed his way into BG Leonard's

CTC Gifts of the Spirit class, which Leonard told him was closed, but permitted him

to enter after vpw arrived. vpw took this class twice, bringing several people with him

the second time. (That second time was July 1953.)

vpw then went off for a few months by himself, then told Leonard that he'd like to run

Leonard's CTC Gifts of the Spirit class locally for his congregation on a one-time basis.

Seeing the benefit to other Christians, Leonard agrees.

vpw then ran the first of "his" Receiving the Holy Spirit Today classes, (October 1953)

and took a photograph of that class. He told the students that this is "his" class

called RtHST, with NO mention of Leonard's class from which 100% of the content

had been directly lifted. The students had no reason to think he's lying. vpw sent

the photograph to Leonard and told Leonard that this is a photo of the class that took

Leonard's class on a one-time basis that was run locally. Leonard took vpw at his word,

and had no idea that vpw continued to run Leonard's class with vpw's name on it,

defrauding both Leonard AND the students. That the classes were interchangeable

in terms of material was the opinion of vpw himself- anyone who had graduated

Leonard's "Gifts of the Spirit" class was considered to be-by vpw- a graduate of

"vpw's" RtHST class.

To this day, many students STILL think this was was vpw's class, even when

evidence is introduced to the contrary. Later, vpw added the contents of JE Stiles' work

on "Gifts of the Spirit" and Bullinger's work on the Holy Spirit as well as

"How to Enjoy the Bible", and expanded the class into a class that was the

sum of the 3 men's work-Stiles, Bullinger and Leonard-rather than just Leonard.

He also renamed the class "Power For Abundant Living", rather than

"Receiving the Holy Spirit Today".

vpw later made a few offhand comments here and there that the material in the class

is not original, but its compilation was.

(However, as it was constructed, vpw could have been sued by copyright holders for

Bullinger, Stiles, and Leonard. Leonard found out but chose not to prosecute.)

It is often noted that the supposed 1942 promise claimed vpw would be taught-by God-

things unknown since the First Century Christians, if vpw would teach others-

yet ALL the material vpw taught was all taken from Leonard/Stiles/Bullinger/Kenyon

and a few others, and thus, it was all KNOWN. Therefore, if a god gave vpw revelation

in 1942, it was a god that lied, since vpw's source for everything was

MAN and NEVER represented information lost since the First Century AD-not even once.

In 1953, vpw also took JE Stiles' "Gifts of the Spirit" book, changed a few words,

and self-published it as the 1st Edition of "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today."

That it was the same year is no coincidence-it was the "original" textbook for

the "original" class. ("Original" in the sense that they were the 1.0 version of

his class, not that they originated at that time.)

Later editions would include incorporation of material from Leonard and Bullinger,

and would include more cosmetic changes in the order of the words and the

specific words used in an attempt to make it look less like Stiles' book.

Among the changes was the deletion of a reference to an anonymous Christian

who "put it together" for vpw (that was Stiles), who was missing by the 4th

edition book, where vpw put it all together himself.

vpw ran "his" PFAL classes continually from 1953 onward, with some success.

Dr E.E. Higgins was one of the students in the October 1953 class. She's known as

the anonymous person who would call vpw at night and ask what God

showed him that day. In 1954, Dr Higgins first introduced vpw to EW

Bullinger's books, and gave him his first copies of the Companion Bible, and

"How to Enjoy the Bible." The contents of both these books later became integral

parts of "vpw's" class.

According to his published memorial, Bishop KC Pillai took PFAL in 1954,

and began teaching a class on"Orientalisms of the Bible".

(Pillai also wrote 3 small books: "Light Through an Eastern Window"

and Volumes I and II of "Orientalisms of the Bible.")

According to the memorial in 1985, 1955 was the year they officially chartered

"the Way".

In 1955, JP was born. 2 months later, VPW left JP with family for the next

year or so, and took his wife and eldest son on a tour of the mission fields in India,

on the Evangelical and Reformed Church's dime.(1955-1957) (Per TW:LIL)

He was irritated that he's reminded he is not officially designated as a spokesman

or investigator of theirs. According to his account in TW:LIL,

he there met Bishop KC Pillai, whom he later invited to teach.

According to the memorial, this tour of the mission fields ran from 1955-1956,

and included stops in Great Britain, Europe, India, and "the Bible lands."

According to the memorial, 1956 was when he wrote

"the Dilemma of Foreign Missions in India."(According to TW:LIL)

In 1957, vpw returned to Van Wert. He cut his ties with the Evangelical and Reformed

Church, and took "his" PFAL class with him.In 1957, he and Harry bought out

their brothers and bought the family farm outright. Rather than take ownership

themselves, they declared it the propertyof "the Way", a church organization

(thus tax-exempt.)(Per TW:LIL, Harry said this was the time they chose the name

"the Way".) Work began on fixing up the farm.

In 1959, he ran a Wisconsin Summer Camp. In 1960, he ran an Indiana Summer Camp.

In 1961, he moved to the farm (refurbishment being sufficient for the move). Bishop Pillai

arrived and taught at the summer school. (Per TW:LIL.)

In 1961, he ran a Miamisburg, Ohio Summer Camp.

In 1962, he moved the summer school to the farm (refurbishment being sufficient

to hold classes there in the new BRC.)

In 1962, Lamsa taught at the summer school.(Lamsa is another unconventional teacher

who claimed special knowledge of the Bible and special status as a man of God.)

In 1963, vpw went to Lima, Ohio and filmed the sessions called "the Teacher".

(Despite this, success STILL had not taken off as vpw wished.)

According to the memorial, 1967 was when "Are the Dead Alive Now?"

(which is adapted from some of Bullinger's books) was published, and PFAL was filmed.

This was the edition of PFAL that incorporated Bullinger's books

(the contents, but not the books themselves) into the curriculum.

In Fall of 1967, vpw first filmed the PFAL class. This was done in a setting

with bright studio lights. (Bright studio lights do not cause cancer.)

vpw claimed that a doctor told him that filming a second day would mean

permanent eye damage, and that he was staring into 8000 watts.

He filmed for 3 complete days, getting sore eyes from the bright lights

(which do not cause cancer.) The figure of 2000 watts seems to be a more

realistic figure for the light level of the filmed class (which is still VERY bright.)

According to TW:LIL, In 1967, vpw read about the Christians at the House of

Acts. vpw went there, impressed them, and convinced them he has extensive,

EXCLUSIVE knowledge they lack. He then turned those he could from unorganized

Christians into a recruitment arm for his class and organization. They agreed

to handle things on the East and West coasts, and many young Christians were

impressed with THEM and join. It's been suggested that one of the reasons he

went there was because he'd heard of the "free-love" movement and wanted to

connect with Christians who would have sex outside of marriage. Thus claim might

sound ridiculous if his accounts of them didn't include little comments about their

displays of affection-and especially since he'd asked one of them-back then and

there-to give him DETAILS on what an orgy was like. He followed up by claiming

that God PERMITTED orgies-but considered monogamy BETTER.

It's also believed that San Francisco is where vpw bought the pornographic materials

he showed the corps, some Advanced Classes and CFS classes-like the movie

of the two women with the dog. (He MENTIONED that video to many Advanced

classes and CFS classes where it was not SHOWN.)

According to the memorial, his trip to Haight-Ashbury/House of Acts was in 1968.

As of 1969, sizeable numbers of young people had flocked to twi from both coasts

as a result.

Once there was sizeable membership in both coasts, vpw pushed out the Christians

from the House of Acts and insisted authority would come FROM hq and tithes

would go TO hq. No exceptions. At that point (1969), vpw made his first attempt

at a Way Corps, which resulted in the famous "Zero Corps".

At some point-presumably early in the way corps history, and possibly as early as 1969,

vpw (according to Mrs W's account) first begins to tell his "snow on the pumps" account

to people, starting with the way corps.

At another point-before the early 1970s-vpw began adding to the "special revelation"

that produced the books and classes (which were really compilations of the work

of other Christians with their names removed) and began speaking of special

revelation about current events. He began to expound on some conspiracy

theories to the corps, and about attempts to take over the United States.

vpw was getting this material from the John Birch Society and the Liberty Lobby.

A few people on-grounds were aware of information coming in from them,

but almost nobody knew those were the direct sources of his supposed

"revelation". As he had done often before, he just claimed to mysteriously

know things and never cited a source-leaving the listeners to guess that there

WAS no conventional source, making this ANOTHER thing God just told him.

These conspiracy theorist organizations and their personal biases fill in the blanks

in some of his odder statements. Their anti-Semitism helps explain his claims

that the current Jews were not descended from the historic Jews (which has been

disproven genetically since), and his recommendations of books like

"the Thirteenth Tribe." Their condemnation of rock and roll and musician/celebrities

explain his claims of all musicians being possessed, and his recommendation of

"the Marxist Minstrels" to the corps (which claimed rock and roll was a communist

plot to take over the United States.) vpw even had David Noebel, who wrote

"the Marxist Minstrels" come and lecture the corps.

In 1971, vpw began his WOW Ambassador program. This program underwent some

changes, but primarily was a one-year committment to get sent out,

support yourself, find housing, and run PFAL classes.

According to his memorial, 1971 was when the Orange Book, "Power for

Abundant Living" was first self-published. It contained mostly material from Leonard's

class and from Bullinger's book "How to Enjoy the Bible".

A number of pamphlets called "Studies in Abundant Living" accompanied the

PFAL class from fairly early on (the filmed class names "Studies in Human

Suffering", later renamed "Job:Victim to Victor".)

In 1971, the first 3 volumes of "Studies in Abundant Living" are published,

compiling the pamphlets into 3 small hardbound books.

In 1974, Emporia College in Emporia, Kansas was bought. It was renamed

"the Way College of Emporia". Despite an absence of accreditation, licensed professors,

and a school "library" composed ENTIRELY of used textbooks donated by way members,

it was put forth as if it is a normal, accredited college.

In 1975, "Jesus Christ is Not God" was published. This was the last book-

not counting Vol 4 of Studies in Abundant Living- that was actually put together by vpw.

In 1976, campuses were purchased in Rome City, Indiana ("the College of Biblical Research")

and Gunnison, Colorado ("the Way Family Ranch-Camp Gunnison").

In 1977, the PFAL '77 was done live at Ball State University. According to the memorial,

in 1977, Howard Allen and Donald Wierwille were installed as Trustees on the

Board of Trustees (replacing "Uncle" Harry Wierwille and Ermal Owens.)

In 1977, Volume 4 of Studies in Abundant Living was published.

In 1978, the land for the LEAD Outdoor Academy was purchased in Tinnie, New Mexico.

In 1979, Advanced Class '79 ran (live, I imagine.)

In 1980, "Jesus Christ Our Passover" was published. This was the first book written by

competent staff and researchers. According to the book itself, it was written

"by Victor Paul Wierwille", with no mention of anyone else. It was a higher-caliber book

than twi normally self-publishes.

In 1982, twi celebrates its "Fortieth Anniversary" since the radio shows that

weren't called "the Way". In 1982, vpw installed LCM as the new president of twi

and vpw becomes "president emeritus".

In 1982, "Jesus Christ Our Promised Seed" was published. It also was written by staff,

and said "by Victor Paul Wierwille" on the cover.

It relied largely on the calculations of another writer as well. This book also saw the

breakthrough of proper crediting, since it actually named the other writer

(Martin) and his book.

In 1984, a live PFAL class was taught at Camp Gunnison, and a manor house was

purchased in Gartmore, Scotland. It was named the Way College of Biblical Research.

(aka Gartmore House, or "the big house" to the villagers of Gartmore.)

vpw spent his life drinking alcoholic beverages and smoking cigarettes and cigars-

tobacco products. Although he usually did it "off-camera", many people knew some

of this. Everyone knew he at least smoked, but he seemed to chain-smoke when

"no one was watching." Furthermore, he had a "coffee cup" next to him for morning

meetings and so on-and often, the contents had nothing to do with coffee. Those who

ever commented on it (who were few enough among those who noticed) were

treated to his comments about us not being "under condemnation" and thus it wasn't

sinful, and therefore had no consequences.

However, there WERE consequences....

By 1984, the long-term exposure to alcohol-which damages internal organs, including

those that act as the body's filtration system and also damages the brain-

and long-term exposure to tobacco-which is a known cancer-causing agent

(unlike studio lights)- resulted in some permanent damage to vpw' body.

He acquired cancer of the eye and liver, and suffered a stroke.

vpw quite vocally-and often- announced that the eye damage was the result

of getting cancer from the studio lights used when filming PFAL- thus saying it was

the result of virtuous activity, and used to give the students a guilty conscience.

Once, when addressing the corps, he was speaking on personal committment to

God. He said "I gave my EYE-what are YOU willing to give?"

Further, in private, vpw was MOST disturbed that he had ANY physical problems,

especially this one. He claimed he'd never been sick or needed an aspirin EVER-

not ONE DAY in his life-before this. Not even in PRIVATE did he ever seem to admit

he'd exposed his body to carcinogens for DECADES. He had surgery that

removed the cancer-stricken eye.

The details of the stroke were COMPLETELY hidden-although there were witnesses-

and the existence of any cancer produced a problem. According to vpw's DOCTRINE,

any Christian should be able to believe sufficiently to burn out a cancer from their

body. vpw had slowly manipulated his personal image to the point that he was

frequently seen as some sort of super-Christian-which is what he wanted. However,

this meant he should have EASILY believed away his cancer.

WORSE, he'd taught in the Advanced class that, since a cancer has a life of its own

(like algae), it must be the result of devil activity. Since vpw was supposedly a

super-Christian, he should have been able to deflect such an assault easily.

However, rather than adjust his image, or correct his doctrine-which had already

hurt many other Christians-he simply hid the cause of his descent into death.

In 1985 the "Word over the World Auditorium" opened at the organizations hq on the farm.

vpw died May 20, 1985 at age 68. According to his death certificate, the cause was

cancer of the liver and of the eye. According to most people in twi at the time,

the cause was UNKNOWN. The most commonly-stated reason was

"he got tired of fighting."

In the last few months of his life, vpw visited Gartmore and spoke privately

with Chr1s Ge*r. He (CG) later claimed that his own paper which he wrote

afterwards-"the Passing of the Patriarch"-was based entirely on private

conversations with vpw. (Some people believe him, some do not.)

That paper-among other things-also claims that vpw would have been

able to "believe himself healthy" if he'd wanted to.

Volume 5 of Studies in Abundant Living was published

posthumously. Its contents were from vpw, it was edited by Chr1$ Ge*r.

[Deciderator]

Thanks for your comments AnotherDan.

I see where you're coming from and I hear you. In my heart and mind there are two things to consider here. First - while it isn't for me to judge - God has given us criteria to ascertain a wolf in sheep's clothing for a reason.

Second, I can certainly forgive a person and I have forgiven him. In order to do that I must still recognize that I have things to forgive him for.

When I forgive someone of something, the memory of what it was fades pretty quickly.

When I think back on my marriage and women I have had affairs with, some of which ended in arguments that never were resolved, I just can't recall what they were.

It's not a memory problem, for most things my memory is excellent.

It's just that when there has been an issue where I was wronged and forgave the other person, I have a way of just forgetting what it was about.

At first I consciously set it aside because, jeepers, I just forgave the person, right?

After that - it just goes away and I'm glad to have my load lightened in that fashion.