Slavery lived through ignorance. Calling people names and ranting never dispels ignorance. Getting to facts and truth will.
I'm sorry you choose to behave this way. So many left TWI because of people like you. Had you presented any facts instead of just name calling you might have helped someone.
JT
[This message was edited by JustThinking on January 15, 2004 at 7:54.]
twi claims they never tell anyone what to do. they don't force people to do anything. They, do, however, talk about how spiritually important it is to go to the special. They talk about how much more spiritually mature people are who go. The devout made trips once a year to hq in the Bible, shouldn't you at least make the effort every TWO years??
You want to learn how to walk better for God, don't you? Don't you want to be pleasing to God? There will be ultra special teachings that you will get only by attending the special. You get to see the BOD, the almighty BOD....you don't want to miss out on that do you?
No they don't force you to go they just pester, nag and condemn the hell out of you (oh, so nicely though) until you do go or break down and repent for not going.
With over $40 million in their coffers I'd think they could make it a bit more affordable for people to go hear their boring teachings and hell fire and brimstone condemnations on the most heavily travelled time of the year when people would rather be with their families eating homemade goodies and watching football.
JustThinking, I too have been on these planning committees However, I do not believe the abs has paid for anything concerning the ACS.
Arrangements are made with the hotel and final decisions are made which determines the fee to be paid for those attending. (Cost per head for this number: price break for this number of people)
TWI sets a deadline date for fees to be sent in--Numbers are given to the hotel prior to their dead-line date and Presto, the meeting rooms are set up, rooms are blocked off and maybe coffee will be served.
These meetings take alot of time and planning but I would like to see just what it cost out of Rosie's ABS fund. (if any)
Just adding also that if the hotel staff wasn't utilized then those which were attending would have to make arrangements to bring their own mops and buckets to clean and re-arrange the hotel for TWI approval.
Just adding also that if the hotel staff wasn't utilized then those which were attending would have to make arrangements to bring their own mops and buckets to clean and re-arrange the hotel for TWI approval.
Sadie,
Excellent point, BUT... don't give'em any ideas. :D-->
My favorite was ( and this is from the "old days" pre 86... ) "the "class" (PFAL) costs us money to put on ... way more than the $100 it costs you to take it"
Yeah right! how's that? My house free refreshments... my utilities my everything volunter labor etc. etc. etc.
7 people at 100 a head... $700 bucks for some printed materials that cost less than a buck or two per book... c'mon!
twi made a killing on EVERYTHING they did.
MAYBE they broke even on the "rock" maybe...
Evan... did hq make money on the ROA??? I bet they did.
You forgot to factor in the cost of maintaining the comfortable lifestyles
of the BOT and the salaries of their servants. And also the cost of manicuring the grounds at HQ and other such things -- All necessary in order for TWI to distribute the materials needed to put on a PFAL class.
If you factor in these necessary expenses in then it becomes clear that the cost of putting on a PFAL class rises to way over $100.00 per person, probably closer to $500.000 to $1000.000.
So in reality TWI was making a huge sacrifce and literally giving away "The Class" at $100.00 per person. Such love and charity ... It kind of makes me well up inside just to think about it.
Sorry, I'm getting all teary now -- I need a tissue.
This is the statement from the BOD regarding their non existant policy on debt.
?we do not have a policy that mandates what people do with their finances. We do have teaching on debt and god?s will for his people to prosper. We have requirements for various classes and functions participation. Being debt free is among the qualifications for participation of the adv class, hfc and other areas of leadership. There is no punishment for being in debt. The fact that a person has not yet fulfilled the requirements for these things is not a negative assessment of their life. All of us are continually growing and we don?t compare people with one another. Our fellowships are for spiritual growth and nurture providing the most loving and helpful environment we can in every level of teaching and service. As they advance the doors of service that open for them are the ones that are the best suited for their current maturity level.?
so do I have to start all over again with the WAP classes? Do I have to pay for them? ...er... I mean donate... so I'll have a committment to complete them and apply the knowledge? Is it possible to take them all in enough time to attend the A.C.???
...or would it be easier if I just snuck in with my sister and her family? :D--> (nah... that aint happenin', is it...!) :(-->
... I've been here and I've been there and I've been in between...
quote:Being debt free is among the qualifications for participation of the adv class ...
I think this is where they blow it. They should just offer the class to interested believers who have completed the other class requirements, like it was in TWI-1.
I'm sure JT is correct in that it costs a lot to rent a hotel room for an event like this.
Someone posted that 2000 people attended their last "Advanced class", at $185 a person thats $370,000.
Do they charge everyone that goes $185, or is it just those who have never taken the class?
Lets say a fourth taking the class that year were the only ones paying $185, thats $92,500.
Why can't TWI have their "advanced class" during the summer at Gunnison and HQ where they have dorms or people could rent rooms from a cheaper hotel in St Marys to attend their class at HQ. Then maybe they won't have to charge money for it?
I feel sorry for the poor folks duped into paying for this "advanced class". How much did Jesus charge when he taught?
[This message was edited by Outin88! on January 15, 2004 at 13:04.]
This isn't the advanced class (which you have to pay for as well) but the Advanced Class Special. This is the replacement for Word In Business which are now only for advanced class grads, and don't discuss anything pertaining to life now.
Just think of it as a mini-ROA, but in a hotel with food poisoned food, and no kids are allowed.
I have to think that this type of event does NOT cost almost $400K to put on. It sounds like a money-maker to me.
P-mosh,
I think W in B was canned too. Anyone know?
Garth,
Thank you.
It would be nice to understand this to help others who may not see this as a money-making event. One of the best things I have gained from this site was good information. One of the things that changed my mind about TWI was the Waydale documents. Another's experiences or story may or may not be true. A court deposition from a current member of the BOT is hard to refute. Ironically, I was drawn to TWI because they said someone's belief should be able to be backed with the Bible. :-)
You missed the boat, bro. The only way you got to get the foundational WAP class for free was if you took it when it was released to the corpse and then PFAL grads. Since it's after that, it'll cost you. It was $50 - but that's when LCM was up on the TV a-hollerin and a-hollerin about homosexuals and church-going folk - right in session 1!!! Why, just hearing him rant and rave and spit was worth the $50 !!! But now, the remnant are teaching it live and in person so the spitting has been greatly reduced.
Reminds me of the movie "The Ten Commandments" when Yul Brunner as the Pharoah has Moses' name and image removed from every building and statue ("let the name of Moses be stricken..."). It's sorta like what they did with Craig. He may not be mentioned, but his presence is still there in his classes and his books.
Hope R. color>size>face>
P.S. Tommy Strangelove - it ain't even worth $50!
What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>
He wasn't removed completely. The syllabus continued to have his name at the front. Kind of weird, actually. And "Live" is kind of relative. It was more like it was read to the class by a live person. 24 hours of someone reading a syllabus to you. Mind-numbing doesn't begin to describe it!
My favorite was seeing someone who was the complete opposite of LCM reading his words. It was almost surreal. Have you seen those credit card commercials about identity theft? The one where the thief's voice is talking but you see the one who was ripped off? Same feeling. Spooky.
Did anyone actually get anything out of these Advanced Class Specials? I mean anything useful?
After the advanced class, there wasn't too much that was really new or useful. Oh yeah, we "learned" who the "seed boys" were, and heard a lot of Martindale's opinions.
The only events that I liked were the Word in Business meetings where you got together with people of like professions. But it wasn't the teachings, but hanging out with fellow sales reps and managers all day that was cool!
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
I will never concede to the idea that I should have to pay in order to benefit from something that my money and labor makes possible.
The priest should have just charged admission at the temple door and told the people it was for their own good.
If I supported someone for years so that they could develop some talent like song writing and because of my money and care they were able to become successful and then they told me if I wanted to come to their concert I had to buy a ticket like everyone else it would not end good for them.
There is no difference between that example and the Way tree or The Way goat rope or whatever they call it now.
The verse about the servant not being greater than the master should be burned into their foreheads with a coat hanger then they should be forced to crawl on the hands and knees reciting it on live tv every time someone who actually had a job and paid for their wanton excesses is reported to be within the 200 mile radius.
If there was any justice in this life they would all spontaneously combust. There is a bon-fire I would love to see.
[This message was edited by pawtucket on January 17, 2004 at 11:37.]
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JustThinking
Early2it,
Slavery lived through ignorance. Calling people names and ranting never dispels ignorance. Getting to facts and truth will.
I'm sorry you choose to behave this way. So many left TWI because of people like you. Had you presented any facts instead of just name calling you might have helped someone.
JT
[This message was edited by JustThinking on January 15, 2004 at 7:54.]
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insurgent
twi claims they never tell anyone what to do. they don't force people to do anything. They, do, however, talk about how spiritually important it is to go to the special. They talk about how much more spiritually mature people are who go. The devout made trips once a year to hq in the Bible, shouldn't you at least make the effort every TWO years??
You want to learn how to walk better for God, don't you? Don't you want to be pleasing to God? There will be ultra special teachings that you will get only by attending the special. You get to see the BOD, the almighty BOD....you don't want to miss out on that do you?
No they don't force you to go they just pester, nag and condemn the hell out of you (oh, so nicely though) until you do go or break down and repent for not going.
With over $40 million in their coffers I'd think they could make it a bit more affordable for people to go hear their boring teachings and hell fire and brimstone condemnations on the most heavily travelled time of the year when people would rather be with their families eating homemade goodies and watching football.
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GarthP2000
Early2it,
In the immortal words of Sgt. Hulka in the flick "Stripes", ...
"Lighten up, Frances!"
Yah! Like that is going to win you respect -- NOT! How difficult is it for you to understand that?
JustThinking,
Just ignore this dude.
My own secret sign-off ====v,
Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations.
Prophet Emeritus of THE,
and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,
Garth P.
www.gapstudioweb.com
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early2it
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sadie
JustThinking, I too have been on these planning committees However, I do not believe the abs has paid for anything concerning the ACS.
Arrangements are made with the hotel and final decisions are made which determines the fee to be paid for those attending. (Cost per head for this number: price break for this number of people)
TWI sets a deadline date for fees to be sent in--Numbers are given to the hotel prior to their dead-line date and Presto, the meeting rooms are set up, rooms are blocked off and maybe coffee will be served.
These meetings take alot of time and planning but I would like to see just what it cost out of Rosie's ABS fund. (if any)
Just adding also that if the hotel staff wasn't utilized then those which were attending would have to make arrangements to bring their own mops and buckets to clean and re-arrange the hotel for TWI approval.
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ItsStillTheWord
Sadie,
Excellent point, BUT... don't give'em any ideas.
:D-->
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Al Poole
My favorite was ( and this is from the "old days" pre 86... ) "the "class" (PFAL) costs us money to put on ... way more than the $100 it costs you to take it"
Yeah right! how's that? My house free refreshments... my utilities my everything volunter labor etc. etc. etc.
7 people at 100 a head... $700 bucks for some printed materials that cost less than a buck or two per book... c'mon!
twi made a killing on EVERYTHING they did.
MAYBE they broke even on the "rock" maybe...
Evan... did hq make money on the ROA??? I bet they did.
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Goey
Al,
You forgot to factor in the cost of maintaining the comfortable lifestyles
of the BOT and the salaries of their servants. And also the cost of manicuring the grounds at HQ and other such things -- All necessary in order for TWI to distribute the materials needed to put on a PFAL class.
If you factor in these necessary expenses in then it becomes clear that the cost of putting on a PFAL class rises to way over $100.00 per person, probably closer to $500.000 to $1000.000.
So in reality TWI was making a huge sacrifce and literally giving away "The Class" at $100.00 per person. Such love and charity ... It kind of makes me well up inside just to think about it.
Sorry, I'm getting all teary now -- I need a tissue.
Goey
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ItsStillTheWord
Goey,
If you need a shoulder...
We're all here dude.
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ItsStillTheWord
And don't forget folks-
If TWI didn't CHARGE for PfAl...you wouldn't have learned anything.
Gotta make that commitment in order to learn.
Wonder why advertisers don't charge you to to read billboards?
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simpleton
This is the statement from the BOD regarding their non existant policy on debt.
?we do not have a policy that mandates what people do with their finances. We do have teaching on debt and god?s will for his people to prosper. We have requirements for various classes and functions participation. Being debt free is among the qualifications for participation of the adv class, hfc and other areas of leadership. There is no punishment for being in debt. The fact that a person has not yet fulfilled the requirements for these things is not a negative assessment of their life. All of us are continually growing and we don?t compare people with one another. Our fellowships are for spiritual growth and nurture providing the most loving and helpful environment we can in every level of teaching and service. As they advance the doors of service that open for them are the ones that are the best suited for their current maturity level.?
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Tom Strange
ShegotJohn (HopeR)...
so do I have to start all over again with the WAP classes? Do I have to pay for them? ...er... I mean donate... so I'll have a committment to complete them and apply the knowledge? Is it possible to take them all in enough time to attend the A.C.???
...or would it be easier if I just snuck in with my sister and her family?
:D--> (nah... that aint happenin', is it...!) 
:(-->
... I've been here and I've been there and I've been in between...
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oldiesman
I think this is where they blow it. They should just offer the class to interested believers who have completed the other class requirements, like it was in TWI-1.
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ItsStillTheWord
Oldies,
Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
That's where they blow it.
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Outin88!
I'm sure JT is correct in that it costs a lot to rent a hotel room for an event like this.
Someone posted that 2000 people attended their last "Advanced class", at $185 a person thats $370,000.
Do they charge everyone that goes $185, or is it just those who have never taken the class?
Lets say a fourth taking the class that year were the only ones paying $185, thats $92,500.
Why can't TWI have their "advanced class" during the summer at Gunnison and HQ where they have dorms or people could rent rooms from a cheaper hotel in St Marys to attend their class at HQ. Then maybe they won't have to charge money for it?
I feel sorry for the poor folks duped into paying for this "advanced class". How much did Jesus charge when he taught?
[This message was edited by Outin88! on January 15, 2004 at 13:04.]
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Mister P-Mosh
Outin88,
This isn't the advanced class (which you have to pay for as well) but the Advanced Class Special. This is the replacement for Word In Business which are now only for advanced class grads, and don't discuss anything pertaining to life now.
Just think of it as a mini-ROA, but in a hotel with food poisoned food, and no kids are allowed.
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JustThinking
Outin88,
I have to think that this type of event does NOT cost almost $400K to put on. It sounds like a money-maker to me.
P-mosh,
I think W in B was canned too. Anyone know?
Garth,
Thank you.
It would be nice to understand this to help others who may not see this as a money-making event. One of the best things I have gained from this site was good information. One of the things that changed my mind about TWI was the Waydale documents. Another's experiences or story may or may not be true. A court deposition from a current member of the BOT is hard to refute. Ironically, I was drawn to TWI because they said someone's belief should be able to be backed with the Bible. :-)
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Hope R.
Doubting Thomas
You missed the boat, bro. The only way you got to get the foundational WAP class for free was if you took it when it was released to the corpse and then PFAL grads. Since it's after that, it'll cost you. It was $50 - but that's when LCM was up on the TV a-hollerin and a-hollerin about homosexuals and church-going folk - right in session 1!!! Why, just hearing him rant and rave and spit was worth the $50 !!! But now, the remnant are teaching it live and in person so the spitting has been greatly reduced.
Reminds me of the movie "The Ten Commandments" when Yul Brunner as the Pharoah has Moses' name and image removed from every building and statue ("let the name of Moses be stricken..."). It's sorta like what they did with Craig. He may not be mentioned, but his presence is still there in his classes and his books.
Hope R. color>size>face>
P.S. Tommy Strangelove - it ain't even worth $50!
What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>
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Tom Strange
Rats!
Did they have 3D glasses and someone hiding behind the TV sprinkling water with their fingers at the class to simulate the spittle?
Man! you go away for a while and...
Now that you mention it, P did say that J was "teaching the class" live (this was last year)... I just didn't know it was that class...
... I've been here and I've been there and I've been in between...
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JustThinking
Hope,
He wasn't removed completely. The syllabus continued to have his name at the front. Kind of weird, actually. And "Live" is kind of relative. It was more like it was read to the class by a live person. 24 hours of someone reading a syllabus to you. Mind-numbing doesn't begin to describe it!
My favorite was seeing someone who was the complete opposite of LCM reading his words. It was almost surreal. Have you seen those credit card commercials about identity theft? The one where the thief's voice is talking but you see the one who was ripped off? Same feeling. Spooky.
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Oakspear
Hope:
I think that I had to pay for the WayAP class when it came out, but at a discounted rate, i think maybe Corps and Alumni got it free though.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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Oakspear
Did anyone actually get anything out of these Advanced Class Specials? I mean anything useful?
After the advanced class, there wasn't too much that was really new or useful. Oh yeah, we "learned" who the "seed boys" were, and heard a lot of Martindale's opinions.
The only events that I liked were the Word in Business meetings where you got together with people of like professions. But it wasn't the teachings, but hanging out with fellow sales reps and managers all day that was cool!
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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early2it
I will never concede to the idea that I should have to pay in order to benefit from something that my money and labor makes possible.
The priest should have just charged admission at the temple door and told the people it was for their own good.
If I supported someone for years so that they could develop some talent like song writing and because of my money and care they were able to become successful and then they told me if I wanted to come to their concert I had to buy a ticket like everyone else it would not end good for them.
There is no difference between that example and the Way tree or The Way goat rope or whatever they call it now.
continued on next post...
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early2it
The verse about the servant not being greater than the master should be burned into their foreheads with a coat hanger then they should be forced to crawl on the hands and knees reciting it on live tv every time someone who actually had a job and paid for their wanton excesses is reported to be within the 200 mile radius.
If there was any justice in this life they would all spontaneously combust. There is a bon-fire I would love to see.
[This message was edited by pawtucket on January 17, 2004 at 11:37.]
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