Another thought on this subject.....Who was VP accountable to? Most churches or ministries that I know of and have been acquainted with, have some kind of "board of elders," that the pastor/minister answers to.
VP adamantly stated over and over again that he didn't have to give account to anyone but God. :blink: Virtually every true "minister" I've ever known stands accountable to those whom he/she serves.
He surrounded himself with yes men, who didn't question his mog status, and condoned and enabled his troubling behavior. Anybody who was on staff or in the corps during his reign, knows that anybody who challenged him was publicly humiliated.
Ex10 -- yea -- so true. I find it ironic that docvic was accountable *only to God*,
yet every-last-one-of-us-believers were held accountable to twi. :(
Another thought on this subject.....Who was VP accountable to? Most churches or ministries that I know of and have been acquainted with, have some kind of "board of elders," that the pastor/minister answers to.
Here is another aspect of manner of life that VPW and LCM taught.
We see all these splinter ministries, all with their own MoG, and I wonder how many have the one figurehead or spokesman for God, and how many have a board or council or committee of trusted individuals to whom the spokesman can refer/seek advice? For sure it's not "MoG by committee" but we read many records in the OT about kings who sought the advice of the elders (or maybe rejected it) (eg 1 Kgs 12). Is there not safety in a multitude of counsellors?
Proverbs 15:22 Without counsel purposes are disappointed: but in the multitude of counsellors they are established.
Proverbs 24:3-6
3 Through wisdom is an house builded; and by understanding it is established:
4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.
5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.
6 For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war: and in multitude of counsellors there is safety.
NT examples: We see Paul many times with trusted believers.
We also see Paul imprisoned because he declined the counsel of many trusted believers.
Manner of life is more that just keeping the trousers zipped.
Since finding GS and seeing the corruption in these men, I have always believed that even though PFAL seemed to teach a few good things... NEW BIRTH... and such... the rest wether they it was 'accurate' or not, had to be Bull-kaka (darn thing...can't write what I'd REALLY like to say here... but I think you get my point).
How could it hold any water when the guy teaching was a thief himself, robbing people of their time, money and dignity.
What is a VPW-Apologist? what seems funny is the doctrine you are tearing down and some of it rightly so is being torn down by the keys to research that you learned in the pfal class. Too bad that some of those keys are not used deep enough but only far enough to support your opinion. WHy not totally discard your opinion and look at these topics from a clear standpoint. Oh yea, by the way all the cheerleaders, can you discard all of what VPW taught you and still come up with anything logical that says that all that VPW taught and did was a scam? sure some will talk about his zipper always being down and how he was after your panties but lets put that aside long enough to look at the bible through your own eyes. If all the Bible does is remind you of the rape that occured at the hands of a leader (VPW, Craggy, Donuts, ROSY) then you need to hightail it to a therapist and don't leave until some progress is made.
My point, simple, STOP looking at the man and start looking to the scriptures. If the corpse of the man is still standing between you and God then a corpse is still a little closer to God than you are.
Hey Ala Prochaine - Wasn't Paul the Apostle a murderer and didn't he put many saints in prison robbing them of their time dignity and money. all in the name of Judiasm?
I don't make any excuses for the crimes he committed. I am trying to stand up for the Word that is being so diasected here that it's being destroyed for you and your purposes of over and over discrediting a man
What is a VPW-Apologist? what seems funny is the doctrine you are tearing down and some of it rightly so is being torn down by the keys to research that you learned in the pfal class.
Out There.....it doesn't take a biblical class on keys to research to read II Timothy 3:10...But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience. Do you really think that some of us NEVER read what was written in the Bible? Like.....reading it IN THE VERSE or IN ITS CONTEXT is some huuuuge secret key..??
Too bad that some of those keys are not used deep enough but only far enough to support your opinion. WHy not totally discard your opinion and look at these topics from a clear standpoint. Oh yea, by the way all the cheerleaders, can you discard all of what VPW taught you and still come up with anything logical that says that all that VPW taught and did was a scam? sure some will talk about his zipper always being down and how he was after your panties but lets put that aside long enough to look at the bible through your own eyes.
Some of pfal was good..........I already said as such in my first post.
For me, the corps indoctrination was LOADED with wierwille as THE MOG of the planet. If HE wanted the mints split into three pieces, then it had better be done to his liking else it will affect the spiritual tremors on the other side of the world if wierwille is upset. Take vigorous notes when he speaks.....applaud him often.....cater to his every need.....write songs about him......quote him......listen to the wierwille family heritage (again) at the nightowl campfire. Sheeeesh, the corps indoctrination was a truckload of wierwille, not the Bible.
My point, simple, STOP looking at the man and start looking to the scriptures.
Out There..........THAT'S EXACTLY the point of my first post.
My point, simple, STOP looking at the man and start looking to the scriptures.
Out There, I agree with you; but some posters are simply focused, fixated on Dr. Wierwille's sins. It's an obsession. I think these are otherwise reasonable people. I sometimes think some of them hate Wierwille so much more than the devil himself. The relentless hate and piling on is incredible. It is staggering to watch sometimes. Golly, I thank God I'm not of that mindset.
Out There, I agree with you; but some posters are simply focused, fixated on Dr. Wierwille's sins. It's an obsession. I think these are otherwise reasonable people. I sometimes think some of them hate Wierwille so much more than the devil himself. The relentless hate and piling on is incredible. It is staggering to watch sometimes. Golly, I thank God I'm not of that mindset.
personally I think it's in direct proportion to the amount of betrayal one feels. I cannot discern someone else feelings of betrayal. Therefore I can't pass judgement on it. I know I have people in my life that I would cross the street rather then have to deal with. I know that even getting out my frustration and or loathing would do me little good because it would not change my thoughts concerning them. So i deal with it and think of them as little as possible.
My point, simple, STOP looking at the man and start looking to the scriptures.
That may be good advice, but it may be kinda hard to do, when folks keep digging him up from the fountain and lavish more love, attention, praise and worship on him than when he was still alive..
I dunno why some have the fixation to keep digging him up to begin with..
"Thank GAWWWD for da MAN dat taught us da word.."
Imagine..walking along, minding your business.. there he is, AGAIN. Propped up in his "teacher's" outfit.. striking resemblence to the thingy in the auditorim (if it is still there)..
I think some are giving quite a few posters a "hobby" of sorts..
beat the darn corpse with a shovel, and try to make sure it's really dead before it gets interred yet once again.
I'll agree.. it's the same thing, over and over and over..
Only thing I can think.. if someone is so insecure that they need his moggish approval, well after death..
Imagine..walking along, minding your business.. there he is, AGAIN. Propped up in his "teacher's" outfit.. striking resemblence to the thingy in the auditorim (if it is still there)..
there's a "thingy" in the auditorium? What is this "thingy"? (this is from someone that hasn't been in the auditorium in 24 years)
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waysider
Not to worry, Sky
Someone should stop by tomorrow to rationalize it for you.
(History tends to repeat itself.)
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dmiller
Ex10 -- yea -- so true. I find it ironic that docvic was accountable *only to God*,
yet every-last-one-of-us-believers were held accountable to twi. :(
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Twinky
Here is another aspect of manner of life that VPW and LCM taught.
We see all these splinter ministries, all with their own MoG, and I wonder how many have the one figurehead or spokesman for God, and how many have a board or council or committee of trusted individuals to whom the spokesman can refer/seek advice? For sure it's not "MoG by committee" but we read many records in the OT about kings who sought the advice of the elders (or maybe rejected it) (eg 1 Kgs 12). Is there not safety in a multitude of counsellors?
Proverbs 15:22 Without counsel purposes are disappointed: but in the multitude of counsellors they are established.
Proverbs 24:3-6
3 Through wisdom is an house builded; and by understanding it is established:
4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.
5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.
6 For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war: and in multitude of counsellors there is safety.
NT examples: We see Paul many times with trusted believers.
We also see Paul imprisoned because he declined the counsel of many trusted believers.
Manner of life is more that just keeping the trousers zipped.
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Ham
True, but it is a darn good start..
But this zero accountability deal.. it's like "you owe us EVERYTHING, WE owe YOU NOTHING."
I remember rants when loy was FURIOUS that anybody would withhold their precious ABS when he wasn't behaving properly.
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Dot Matrix
Ex10
Yes
And anyone who could have challanged him were also doing the crimes. He was impeachable
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polar bear
I have said in another thread that VP was a putting on a "show".
I wish the so called "VP defenders" could have seen him like I did when he wasn't in front of a crowd.
He was a real jerk.
He really didn't care about anyone except himself. I know he didn't take care of his wife.
He always had to look good.
I sure didn't stay around because of him.
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A la prochaine
Sky,
Wonderful thread!
Since finding GS and seeing the corruption in these men, I have always believed that even though PFAL seemed to teach a few good things... NEW BIRTH... and such... the rest wether they it was 'accurate' or not, had to be Bull-kaka (darn thing...can't write what I'd REALLY like to say here... but I think you get my point).
How could it hold any water when the guy teaching was a thief himself, robbing people of their time, money and dignity.
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Out There
What is a VPW-Apologist? what seems funny is the doctrine you are tearing down and some of it rightly so is being torn down by the keys to research that you learned in the pfal class. Too bad that some of those keys are not used deep enough but only far enough to support your opinion. WHy not totally discard your opinion and look at these topics from a clear standpoint. Oh yea, by the way all the cheerleaders, can you discard all of what VPW taught you and still come up with anything logical that says that all that VPW taught and did was a scam? sure some will talk about his zipper always being down and how he was after your panties but lets put that aside long enough to look at the bible through your own eyes. If all the Bible does is remind you of the rape that occured at the hands of a leader (VPW, Craggy, Donuts, ROSY) then you need to hightail it to a therapist and don't leave until some progress is made.
My point, simple, STOP looking at the man and start looking to the scriptures. If the corpse of the man is still standing between you and God then a corpse is still a little closer to God than you are.
Hey Ala Prochaine - Wasn't Paul the Apostle a murderer and didn't he put many saints in prison robbing them of their time dignity and money. all in the name of Judiasm?
I don't make any excuses for the crimes he committed. I am trying to stand up for the Word that is being so diasected here that it's being destroyed for you and your purposes of over and over discrediting a man
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TheInvisibleDan
But IMHO, the doctrine of the infallible and inarguable "Word" is as flawed as the man who promoted it.
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skyrider
Out There.....it doesn't take a biblical class on keys to research to read II Timothy 3:10...But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience. Do you really think that some of us NEVER read what was written in the Bible? Like.....reading it IN THE VERSE or IN ITS CONTEXT is some huuuuge secret key..??
Some of pfal was good..........I already said as such in my first post.For me, the corps indoctrination was LOADED with wierwille as THE MOG of the planet. If HE wanted the mints split into three pieces, then it had better be done to his liking else it will affect the spiritual tremors on the other side of the world if wierwille is upset. Take vigorous notes when he speaks.....applaud him often.....cater to his every need.....write songs about him......quote him......listen to the wierwille family heritage (again) at the nightowl campfire. Sheeeesh, the corps indoctrination was a truckload of wierwille, not the Bible.
Out There..........THAT'S EXACTLY the point of my first post.
LOOK at the Scripture........II Timothy 3:10
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oldiesman
Out There, I agree with you; but some posters are simply focused, fixated on Dr. Wierwille's sins. It's an obsession. I think these are otherwise reasonable people. I sometimes think some of them hate Wierwille so much more than the devil himself. The relentless hate and piling on is incredible. It is staggering to watch sometimes. Golly, I thank God I'm not of that mindset.
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bulwinkl
personally I think it's in direct proportion to the amount of betrayal one feels. I cannot discern someone else feelings of betrayal. Therefore I can't pass judgement on it. I know I have people in my life that I would cross the street rather then have to deal with. I know that even getting out my frustration and or loathing would do me little good because it would not change my thoughts concerning them. So i deal with it and think of them as little as possible.
"Doctor it hurts when I do this"
"Well then quit doing that"
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Ham
That may be good advice, but it may be kinda hard to do, when folks keep digging him up from the fountain and lavish more love, attention, praise and worship on him than when he was still alive..
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Ham
I dunno why some have the fixation to keep digging him up to begin with..
"Thank GAWWWD for da MAN dat taught us da word.."
Imagine..walking along, minding your business.. there he is, AGAIN. Propped up in his "teacher's" outfit.. striking resemblence to the thingy in the auditorim (if it is still there)..
I think some are giving quite a few posters a "hobby" of sorts..
beat the darn corpse with a shovel, and try to make sure it's really dead before it gets interred yet once again.
I'll agree.. it's the same thing, over and over and over..
Only thing I can think.. if someone is so insecure that they need his moggish approval, well after death..
you really deserve better..
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bulwinkl
there's a "thingy" in the auditorium? What is this "thingy"? (this is from someone that hasn't been in the auditorium in 24 years)
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Ham
Yeah.. the marble "teacher". looked like the little replica.. I thought.. didn't they have a full size version of it there at one time?
"thingy".. my english prof would roll in his grave if he wasn't still alive..
No, it was bronze. I think, anyway..
:)
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bulwinkl
Can anyone say "Graven Images"?
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