I think this signature is typical of some here who won't accept what some others have to say:
Very typical of the cultish phenomena. It won't "work" unless you can break down trust between others, citing some insane adherence to a doctrine and precision that even God never thought of. Don't trust anyone.. anything.. only gawd himself, or his representative can be trusted, but trust of the central authority is exempt from examination, and absolute.
If one argues against the use of the word "cultish", just substitue "Machiavellian" if it makes you feel better. Basically the same thing..
You don't want happy peasants, you want busy ones. Too busy to care, too troubled to trust each other, too fearful to get involved..
Did I hear my name being tossed around? See David that's the thing this has zero to do with VPW it has only to do with Whitedove, me how I choose to process information typical when one can't grasp the idea send it to the VPW apologist file. I spoke for me and me only how I choose to process thought that enter my mind. It's mine and I can do what I need to for my life. You can function anyway you like or need to. I never said everyone needed to think like me did I?
Your experiences may differ from mine and other's (in twi).
BUT because they didn't happen to YOU,
doesn't mean they didn't happen to me (or others).
Can you show me anywhere that I said they did not? No because I did not. See comment one I spoke for me and me alone.
You DON'T need to know who I (or others) real name is,
to evaluate what (my or others) PERSONAL EXPERIENCE is.
Many of us have been here for YEARS --- so evaluate the posts made,
scrutinize the content posted, and you will see that there are --
no strangers at GreaseSpot Cafe. There is a commonality.
Posts are CONSISTENT with the given poster -- (same info, over and over),
and that by the same posters.
Nice thought David I'll file that right along with world peace, but everyone is a stranger here unless you have formed some live personal bond with them I know of many people ,some things about them, but they are strangers, internet avatars. What color hair do I have? How much do I weigh? How tall or short am I? and if I gave you information what makes you think that you can verify that it is right? You can't, you can accept it as true or not.
Here is a thought David look at VPW the image he conveyed to many people was that of a kind Fatherly figure, only he had another image as well. Do we just accept what we see without examination ? without proof? This whole site is dedicated to exploring that proof we pick apart every word action day and minute of who he was ,no one has a problem with that, no one believes it because VPW said it yet when someone else says something we are just to accept it? Who chooses who gets accepted by faith and who does not? I think scripture says prove all things hold fast to that which is good.
Anonymous names (over the years), here on this site ---
have become friends with others, and (also) with a verifiable history,
because posters here are CONSISTENTLY posting the same info.
True names and phone numbers have been exchanged.
IF --- you take the Word of God at FACE VALUE
(personal experiences of men/ folks you have NEVER MET),
and BELIEVE THAT WITHOUT FAULT --- you're believing words on a written page.
Are you really equating humans with God? I take what He says at face value because He is not subject to the character flaws of humans, and because there is proof at least I think so.
What's the difference with cyber-space?? Not GOD-BREATHED enough for you????
Oh -- scuse the H outta me -- Simon and Schuster didn't publish it???
Can't find it in a Barne's and Noble Bookstore??
So when a sister here tells a story that has impacted her life GREATLY
(here at GSC about twi, docvic, lcm, etc.),
it's discounted as so much TRASH ?????????
(No witnesses -- eh?? -- So it's *unbelievable* -- or at least *suspect*).
Perhaps if a major publishing company picked up the story you MIGHT believe it?
No one said anywhere that anyone's story was trash just unverifiable big difference Awhile back I got a ticket went to court the officer told his story I told mine the Judge did not know either of us so which was true? He dismissed the ticket because he accepted the facts or proof that I presented. Did that make the officer Trash? No Did it make him a liar? No it made him unable to prove his words that's all. Did it make him a bad person? No He probably was a nice guy when he was not in cop mode. That's the thing in life we understand these things but some how here when we question we are trashing someone, making them a victim again and on and on. I wonder by what magic that only applies and works here only?
Sorry --- (No -- I'm NOT -- but I'm saying that for form's sake) ---
You folks that are quibbling and debating *definitions* about situations used in OTHER'S posts,
while DENIGRATING the women who have put their entire soul out here on the line for
the advancement of other women, men, & children of twi who have sufferred EVIL at the hands of those who were supposed to be Godly, Loving, Biblical, Comforting; (are---IMO)
Doing an EVIL DEED.
May God have mercy on (ALL) our souls.
(I started this thread so that the women who have so BRAVELY come forward to say what they did
be recognized on post 1, and NOT lost in a multi-page thread -- such as the one is, that is now going on *What I Learned In pfal*.)
This was written to no one in particular,
even though I have a few posters in mind.
So while I am a fan of the Word ---That's a bunch of *posts* by folks from a past era.
If you believe them as true experiences ---
(first hand accounts of what happened back then),
you're a sorry bunch to criticize what is being said today,
given what you think about what was said previously by *prophets of old*.
Sorry I don't believe them either without facts.
If you think *first-hand accounts* were valid then,
it's axiomatic that you you think the same today.
Your right but I don't. I have heard many versions of the same story through the years we are human subject to memory, time ,wrong perceptions and so forth. sometimes we just want to change history. Exactly why one can not trust the stories which one?
This will be my only post on this thread.
I really don't care about any responses I might get.
I had to get that off my chest.
No matter how right you think you *righteous ones* are ---
there always seems to be someone *more right* than you.
Think that through -- just once. Please.
Again a misconception, it has zero to do with being right for me, it has everything to do with is is truth? And what ideas I accept into my mind.
Mr. Squirrel I am too busy to bother with your post :unsure:
I personally believe the accounts by women who were raped. I wasn't there, obviously, but it all seems plausible to me.
On the other hand, I can understand why not everyone would accept these accounts as 100% accurate. We all have different threshholds of credulousness (is that a word? ). Some of us have differing experiences within TWI that make certain things that happened to others seem unbelieveable. A skeptic might also recall that people have been known to make false accustations. Then there's the fragile thing called memory. The mind will "fill in the blanks" when it has incomplete information and stories change in the telling.
That being said, once again, I overall personally believe the accounts. Could some of the details be off? Probably. Could there be some confusion about some of the facts? Maybe. But the main points have convinced me. If it was just one account I may have remained skeptical. But it's not just one account.
For me, the main point is that Wierwille, the so-called "Man of God" either raped or otherwise took advantage of women sexually. The fact of his actions is all that I need to know to form an opinion about his morals. Whether any of these girls or women were willing participants is, to me, irrelevant to my opinion of Wierwille. None of those women made a claim on my allegience or obedience.
On the other hand, to vilify other posters who have their doubts, or who are not convinced 100% is wrong. When I first came to Waydale and Grease Spot cafe, I doubted them too. I doubted a lot of what I read. I still stuck up for certain TWI practices and doctrines and had my cyber foot handed to me by certain posters.
Vigorous debate, passionate persuasion: yes; name calling and character assasination: no.
THAT isn`t what gets posters villified...it`s when in defense of those doubts one must resort to bad behavior, name calling and nastiness. They bring it all upon themselves....don`t kid yourself.
I had no problem believing any of the women who told their stories. My heart and prayers wish nothing but love and healing for them – and I admire their strength and courage to get the word out.
I'll tell you why I had no problem believing them. I've shared this before on several threads – my being Corps and having to watch the vickster's favorite porn video at a pajama party. Well, after reading Grease Spot over Tonto's shoulder for awhile, I joined GSC and at some point was able to connect the dots in my de-TWItified brain. I remember thinking back on that pajama party and it occurred to me, "Here's proof enough for me what he was really like – and it was right in front of our [the Corps'] noses all along!"
On stage [playing to the general TWI audience], vickster maintained the pristine man-o-god persona. Back stage [playing to Corps and Staff] he was not as guarded in his ways. Passing off his lecherous ways as if he was so spiritual, pure in heart, above all that. That not only revealed his true character but served to acclimatize us dumb-bots to his way of thinking….Grrrrrrrrrr …I think I'm gonna barf!...I ought to barf in a FedEx mailer - send that to TWI with a note – "I finally got my VCR to eject your porn video and thought you might want it back."
Maybe if you have a few moments, go back into the anals of Norway Murders, and Stuff...and look at all the things that came out there. All of a sudden there was a lot of exposure about events going on that few knew about or remembered. How much actual proof was provided? Most of you drinking the “cool aid” were living at ground zero and had no clue people were “going missing”!!
Do I need actual proof about the sexual abuse...not really, because it’s always been apart of the package or “big picture”.
When I first made the claim that there had been a “problem” in Oslo, I was trashed repeatedly for making such an outrageous claim. Who was this “Bumpy” in Africa talking about murders in Norway! <_<
Maybe if you have a few moments, go back into the anals of Norway Murders, and Stuff...and look at all the things that came out there. All of a sudden there was a lot of exposure about events going on that few knew about or remembered. How much actual proof was provided? Most of you drinking the “cool aid” were living at ground zero and had no clue people were “going missing”!!
Do I need actual proof about the sexual abuse...not really, because it’s always been apart of the package or “big picture”.
When I first made the claim that there had been a “problem” in Oslo, I was trashed repeatedly for making such an outrageous claim. Who was this “Bumpy” in Africa talking about murders in Norway!
dear bumpy, i hope i didn't trash you. you are correct about living here and having no clue about what was going on.
--
i don't trust everyone, but i haven't given up trust, or hope......
--
but then again look at what's under my avatar ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
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Ham
I think this signature is typical of some here who won't accept what some others have to say:
Very typical of the cultish phenomena. It won't "work" unless you can break down trust between others, citing some insane adherence to a doctrine and precision that even God never thought of. Don't trust anyone.. anything.. only gawd himself, or his representative can be trusted, but trust of the central authority is exempt from examination, and absolute.
If one argues against the use of the word "cultish", just substitue "Machiavellian" if it makes you feel better. Basically the same thing..
You don't want happy peasants, you want busy ones. Too busy to care, too troubled to trust each other, too fearful to get involved..
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WhiteDove
Open post to all the docvic apologists -----
Did I hear my name being tossed around? See David that's the thing this has zero to do with VPW it has only to do with Whitedove, me how I choose to process information typical when one can't grasp the idea send it to the VPW apologist file. I spoke for me and me only how I choose to process thought that enter my mind. It's mine and I can do what I need to for my life. You can function anyway you like or need to. I never said everyone needed to think like me did I?
Your experiences may differ from mine and other's (in twi).
BUT because they didn't happen to YOU,
doesn't mean they didn't happen to me (or others).
Can you show me anywhere that I said they did not? No because I did not. See comment one I spoke for me and me alone.
You DON'T need to know who I (or others) real name is,
to evaluate what (my or others) PERSONAL EXPERIENCE is.
Many of us have been here for YEARS --- so evaluate the posts made,
scrutinize the content posted, and you will see that there are --
no strangers at GreaseSpot Cafe. There is a commonality.
Posts are CONSISTENT with the given poster -- (same info, over and over),
and that by the same posters.
Nice thought David I'll file that right along with world peace, but everyone is a stranger here unless you have formed some live personal bond with them I know of many people ,some things about them, but they are strangers, internet avatars. What color hair do I have? How much do I weigh? How tall or short am I? and if I gave you information what makes you think that you can verify that it is right? You can't, you can accept it as true or not.
Here is a thought David look at VPW the image he conveyed to many people was that of a kind Fatherly figure, only he had another image as well. Do we just accept what we see without examination ? without proof? This whole site is dedicated to exploring that proof we pick apart every word action day and minute of who he was ,no one has a problem with that, no one believes it because VPW said it yet when someone else says something we are just to accept it? Who chooses who gets accepted by faith and who does not? I think scripture says prove all things hold fast to that which is good.
Anonymous names (over the years), here on this site ---
have become friends with others, and (also) with a verifiable history,
because posters here are CONSISTENTLY posting the same info.
True names and phone numbers have been exchanged.
IF --- you take the Word of God at FACE VALUE
(personal experiences of men/ folks you have NEVER MET),
and BELIEVE THAT WITHOUT FAULT --- you're believing words on a written page.
Are you really equating humans with God? I take what He says at face value because He is not subject to the character flaws of humans, and because there is proof at least I think so.
What's the difference with cyber-space?? Not GOD-BREATHED enough for you????
Oh -- scuse the H outta me -- Simon and Schuster didn't publish it???
Can't find it in a Barne's and Noble Bookstore??
So when a sister here tells a story that has impacted her life GREATLY
(here at GSC about twi, docvic, lcm, etc.),
it's discounted as so much TRASH ?????????
(No witnesses -- eh?? -- So it's *unbelievable* -- or at least *suspect*).
Perhaps if a major publishing company picked up the story you MIGHT believe it?
No one said anywhere that anyone's story was trash just unverifiable big difference Awhile back I got a ticket went to court the officer told his story I told mine the Judge did not know either of us so which was true? He dismissed the ticket because he accepted the facts or proof that I presented. Did that make the officer Trash? No Did it make him a liar? No it made him unable to prove his words that's all. Did it make him a bad person? No He probably was a nice guy when he was not in cop mode. That's the thing in life we understand these things but some how here when we question we are trashing someone, making them a victim again and on and on. I wonder by what magic that only applies and works here only?
Sorry --- (No -- I'm NOT -- but I'm saying that for form's sake) ---
You folks that are quibbling and debating *definitions* about situations used in OTHER'S posts,
while DENIGRATING the women who have put their entire soul out here on the line for
the advancement of other women, men, & children of twi who have sufferred EVIL at the hands of those who were supposed to be Godly, Loving, Biblical, Comforting; (are---IMO)
Doing an EVIL DEED.
May God have mercy on (ALL) our souls.
(I started this thread so that the women who have so BRAVELY come forward to say what they did
be recognized on post 1, and NOT lost in a multi-page thread -- such as the one is, that is now going on *What I Learned In pfal*.)
This was written to no one in particular,
even though I have a few posters in mind.
So while I am a fan of the Word ---That's a bunch of *posts* by folks from a past era.
If you believe them as true experiences ---
(first hand accounts of what happened back then),
you're a sorry bunch to criticize what is being said today,
given what you think about what was said previously by *prophets of old*.
Sorry I don't believe them either without facts.
If you think *first-hand accounts* were valid then,
it's axiomatic that you you think the same today.
Your right but I don't. I have heard many versions of the same story through the years we are human subject to memory, time ,wrong perceptions and so forth. sometimes we just want to change history. Exactly why one can not trust the stories which one?
This will be my only post on this thread.
I really don't care about any responses I might get.
I had to get that off my chest.
No matter how right you think you *righteous ones* are ---
there always seems to be someone *more right* than you.
Think that through -- just once. Please.
Again a misconception, it has zero to do with being right for me, it has everything to do with is is truth? And what ideas I accept into my mind.
Mr. Squirrel I am too busy to bother with your post :unsure:
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Oakspear
For what it's worth....
I personally believe the accounts by women who were raped. I wasn't there, obviously, but it all seems plausible to me.
On the other hand, I can understand why not everyone would accept these accounts as 100% accurate. We all have different threshholds of credulousness (is that a word?
). Some of us have differing experiences within TWI that make certain things that happened to others seem unbelieveable. A skeptic might also recall that people have been known to make false accustations. Then there's the fragile thing called memory. The mind will "fill in the blanks" when it has incomplete information and stories change in the telling.
That being said, once again, I overall personally believe the accounts. Could some of the details be off? Probably. Could there be some confusion about some of the facts? Maybe. But the main points have convinced me. If it was just one account I may have remained skeptical. But it's not just one account.
For me, the main point is that Wierwille, the so-called "Man of God" either raped or otherwise took advantage of women sexually. The fact of his actions is all that I need to know to form an opinion about his morals. Whether any of these girls or women were willing participants is, to me, irrelevant to my opinion of Wierwille. None of those women made a claim on my allegience or obedience.
On the other hand, to vilify other posters who have their doubts, or who are not convinced 100% is wrong. When I first came to Waydale and Grease Spot cafe, I doubted them too. I doubted a lot of what I read. I still stuck up for certain TWI practices and doctrines and had my cyber foot handed to me by certain posters.
Vigorous debate, passionate persuasion: yes; name calling and character assasination: no.
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Larry N Moore
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Ham
probably just as well, ya know what they say about people who have whole conversations with Squirrels anyway..
I would agree that villifying other posters who have honest, sincere doubts is wrong.
Maybe they just don't know enough..
but if they've heard the same story, over and over..
same questions..
"why'd ya go back.."
"could he have been sincere while doing the most awful.."
"I had good times. .how can that nullify the GOOD he did.."
like another poster said, it's like somebody hit the reset button.. and everything is starting back at square one.
I think some have hung the "trust no one" sign on the wrong people..
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rascal
THAT isn`t what gets posters villified...it`s when in defense of those doubts one must resort to bad behavior, name calling and nastiness. They bring it all upon themselves....don`t kid yourself.
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T-Bone
I had no problem believing any of the women who told their stories. My heart and prayers wish nothing but love and healing for them – and I admire their strength and courage to get the word out.
I'll tell you why I had no problem believing them. I've shared this before on several threads – my being Corps and having to watch the vickster's favorite porn video at a pajama party. Well, after reading Grease Spot over Tonto's shoulder for awhile, I joined GSC and at some point was able to connect the dots in my de-TWItified brain. I remember thinking back on that pajama party and it occurred to me, "Here's proof enough for me what he was really like – and it was right in front of our [the Corps'] noses all along!"
On stage [playing to the general TWI audience], vickster maintained the pristine man-o-god persona. Back stage [playing to Corps and Staff] he was not as guarded in his ways. Passing off his lecherous ways as if he was so spiritual, pure in heart, above all that. That not only revealed his true character but served to acclimatize us dumb-bots to his way of thinking….Grrrrrrrrrr
…I think I'm gonna barf!...I ought to barf in a FedEx mailer - send that to TWI with a note – "I finally got my VCR to eject your porn video and thought you might want it back."
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Bumpy
Maybe if you have a few moments, go back into the anals of Norway Murders, and Stuff...and look at all the things that came out there. All of a sudden there was a lot of exposure about events going on that few knew about or remembered. How much actual proof was provided? Most of you drinking the “cool aid” were living at ground zero and had no clue people were “going missing”!!
Do I need actual proof about the sexual abuse...not really, because it’s always been apart of the package or “big picture”.
When I first made the claim that there had been a “problem” in Oslo, I was trashed repeatedly for making such an outrageous claim. Who was this “Bumpy” in Africa talking about murders in Norway! <_<
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WhiteDove
Mr Squirrel glad you got the joke it was a little play on your comment
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Dot Matrix
Bumpy
For what it is worth, I believed you
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excathedra
dear bumpy, i hope i didn't trash you. you are correct about living here and having no clue about what was going on.
--
i don't trust everyone, but i haven't given up trust, or hope......
--
but then again look at what's under my avatar ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
...
:)
hey d. :wub:
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