I had a neighbor that was a child molester...no, I wasn`t raped, just fondled whenever he could get his hands on me...ew gross...scarey...but I wasn`t physically hurt (His wife was usually never far away, I think that kept him from going further)
Not that this compairs in ANY way with what you experienced....I would not presume to understand how tough it was for you.....but I did want to confirm that this stuff can make you insanely protective of your children.
As a result of that creep.....my children were never EVER left alone or with sitters...even if I trusted my family members, I never allowed the kiddos to spend the night because I didn`t know who THEIR neighbors were or whom they would allow in their homes...boy friends....in laws...etc
No, I wasn`t hurt ...but something was taken from me....My kids have never been to a summer camp...they are rarely allowed anywhere where myself or another parent who has earned my trust implicity through the years is supervising....My kids don`t go hang out at the mall...or get left at a theme park or even the local fair for the day.
I have anxiety attacks when my sisters let their kids do these things....
I knew that I was this way...I just hadn`t connected it with why.
The cliche phrase *innocence stolen* barely conveys what is missing from some one after that experience.....an inability to trust...a way of looking at the world through jaded eyes...of not being able to relax your vigilance ever.
Bow I am so sorry that you were not treasured and protected as you should have been.
Above? not really i do have a college degree , big deal even a degree doesn't make one an expert.
those who counsel victims are highly experienced and educated, malpractice insurance, and a license is required.
anyone can listen to anyone they chose. the INTERNET is a wide playing field . a friend sometimes can help a person more than all the professional counseling in the world .
love helps everyone.
i minimized nothing i merely asked a question . you guys can look up all the information and help you need in life on the internet .
I've had rape and near rape experiences. The near rape was tougher to get over than the rapes. The rapes were by strangers. That was one thing to deal with. I don't feel any leftover pain or scars from them - this all happened no less than 30 years ago and today really feels more like a movie I saw than something I actually endured, except for the near rape. I can still feel it today.
The near rape was by my brother. I didn't speak to him for close to 6 years after that. When we did speak it was only because our mother died and there were decisions to be made. We had no dad. I was barely 18 at that time. My brother acknowledged the fact when I called him to tell him Mom had died and he needed to get to the hospital. He offered to pick me up to go to the funeral home and I told him I'd NEVER be alone with him again as long as I lived. He said he understood and would have his fiance along. His acknowledging the fact somehow allowed me to feel safe enough to be around him as long as there was someone else with us.
I was 12 at the time of the incident with my brother. He was a drunken 16-year-old. We were unsupervised children. He tore my clothes off of me and fondled me here and there. When I quit fighting, he seemed to sort of snap out of it and stopped short of actual penetration, but he was 'right there'. He picked me up off the floor and apologized about 10 times, kissed me on the forehead and then told me he'd kill me if I ever told Mom.
He left home when I was 13 or 14. I left home when I was 14. I was never able to tell my mom although it remained in the forefront of my mind every time I spoke with her - I couldn't trust her not to tell him that she knew. I knew he'd kill me if I ever told her. I did confide it in a foster mother when I was 15, and she told my mother. My mother died accusing me of making the whole thing up.
My brother had raped all of our siblings as we grew up. I was the least of it. He'd been "fondled" by a step-uncle that had to babysit us one night when my brother was around 12. I understand that's what triggered him becoming a rapist. He went on to have 4 kids of his own and a stepdaughter. He molested the stepdaughter when she was 2. He left his own kids alone as far as I've heard.
We'd enjoyed a friendly relationship over the years as we'd never been alone anywhere and I had always believed that he was as much a victim of our upbringing as the rest of us were. I never felt in danger of him raping again. Our kids grew up knowing each other. We talked a few years ago about some of our childhood horrors and he made an interesting comment to me. He asked me if I ever found it odd that both he and I very rarely allowed our children to be cared for by anyone other than ourselves. I told him right off the top of my head, "No - supervised children are less at risk of rape." It was in that conversation he told me what had happened to him when that uncle babysat. All the remaining pieces of the puzzle fell into place for me.
We've since quit talking as a result of a conversation between his wife and me where she told me what he'd done to her daughter. I then called him and was foolish enough to think he'd talk honestly with me. I've stopped all communication now and didn't even attend his daughter's wedding as I just can't be anywhere that he is. All these years I thought he had dealt with his demons. Today I believe he never will.
I have a full-grown son who's NEVER had any sexual contact he hasn't wanted and am raising a daughter now - my goal is to be able to say the same thing when she's the age my son is at now. My children are never left unsupervised.
Dear ((((Bowtwi))))
Thanks for sharing this. I pray and believe that your children are blessed and protected by your vigilence.
I know what you mean, Rascal - in one split fraction of a second, our children can lose the innocence that they deserve to enjoy as long as they will, not someone else wills. Whenever the princess goes overnite it's only after I've done my homework on the family and have driven the parents half-nuts with my questions. It's so worth the extra energy it takes to keep them safe.
I go on all the field trips I possibly can so I'm there to supervise personally. She has friends overnight here plenty, but rarely goes out for overnights.
Normal Human Responses to Rape is a fascinating concept to me, as I've known more women that have been raped or at least molested than I know women that have not. I'm intrigued by women who were protected to that extent as girls. I almost interview them, I ask so many questions about their lives.
I think whatever a person (female OR male) has to do in order to heal from the emotional injury is between them and God. I know that I went through a promiscuous stage - those exact words you used above, catcup - at least I'm choosing who, where, and even what specifically - I told myself those words. Fortunately, I didn't live like that for too long.
Looking back, I notice that I had a son right around the time I was heading down a path of self-destruction with alcohol. I had to stop drinking heavily in order to take the care of my precious boy I required of myself. When he was 16, I had the princess. I've had to take reasonably good care of myself in order to take care of them properly. I feel very fortunate, as I know my siblings aren't nearly as healthy that way as I am today.
I'll have more to say later, but I think it is important to understand that there is not a stock response to rape, nor are there stock situations with stock answers.
More women have been raped than many men understand because of the many caes that go unreported.
Recovery varies from victim to victim.
In some cases, a person with sexual abuse during their formative years will seem to put out a vibe that victimizers seem to pick up on.
The testimony at trial is not as cut and dried as we might like it. Someimes victims have been so traumatized they don't get the story perfectly straight. Often the perpetrator is not an ogre-looking person, but the sort one would never guess would do such a thing.
For the person accused, and looking at decades in prison, they deserve to mount a strong defense including facing their accuser and having the right of cross-examnation.
This is often painful, but it is necessary in our system of justice.
I'll have more to say later, but I think it is important to understand that there is not a stock response to rape, nor are there stock situations with stock answers.
You are absolutely right on this. Not every woman will manifest the behaviors I have above described. But the behaviors I have described have been found in a significant percentage of this population.
More women have been raped than many men understand because of the many caes that go unreported.
Recovery varies from victim to victim.
This also is very true. Recovery can depend on how stable the person is to begin with, what kind of help they receive or don't receive, what kind of relationship they have with and what kind of support they can get from family and friends, among others.
In some cases, a person with sexual abuse during their formative years will seem to put out a vibe that victimizers seem to pick up on.
This also can be true, especially if they have not fully recovered from the assault. This is not an intentional "vibe," but sometimes an insecurity left by the initial sexual assault can be so profound, that it cannot be masked by the person who has survived this sexual assault, and many times that person is not able to even recognize their own insecurities. Unfortuately, like some of these assault survivors carry a profound and unmaskable insecurity, sexual predators carry an acute sense of being able to pick up on even the slightest hint of vulnerability. The moment they detect that scent, they hyperfocus on their target.
The testimony at trial is not as cut and dried as we might like it. Someimes victims have been so traumatized they don't get the story perfectly straight. Often the perpetrator is not an ogre-looking person, but the sort one would never guess would do such a thing.
This is also true, not only of rape trials, but of other kinds as well. I served on a murder trial this summer and witnessed exactly that phenomenon. The details were muddled by trauma, yet the guilt of the accused was obvious. However the state failed to prove its case. It was the very unfortunate case where twelve people knew in their hearts the guy was guilty as sin, but because of technicalities they had to acquit. The verdict did not change the ugly realities of the murder they knew this man committed. It's a flaw in our court system. Our system of justice is not perfect.
For the person accused, and looking at decades in prison, they deserve to mount a strong defense including facing their accuser and having the right of cross-examnation.
This is often painful, but it is necessary in our system of justice.
Also right on the money. Like I said, the kind of defense tactics used are rigorous, and the defense counsel uses them because it is his/her job to defend the accused. Unfortunately, the tactics are also used to intimidate, which is also the job of the defense counsel.
It is often very painful, and yes, it is necessary in our system of justice.
Unfortunately the nature of the damage done by the crime of sexual assault itself renders many victims unable to withstand such a trial. A catch 22. Just my opinion, but that is a flaw in our system of justice. A debate currently waged in law schools everywhere.
((((Bow))) maybe NOW you understand the terror for me when you droven off with Jesse that night?
It didn`t matter that I had YOUR child, A stranger had my daughter and was driving away ... when you didn`t turn at the right place....were headed fro the hiway...and I couldn`t catch you....lol can you understand now my over reaction??? Lol...it goes beyond being protective.
I am glad that you mentioned this because everyone has really thought my neurotic over protection of the kiddoes was funny and I felt stupid. It helps knowing why I do stuff.
There is an author/comedian that I used to love to listen to. She used to say...God uses *cracked* pots....
Maybe your experience is what makes you so compassionate and kind in your ministering to others? Maybe your own feelings of vulnerability is why you are such a ferocious advocate for animals and you go the extra mile to get them treatment and homes when every body else thainks that it is too much trouble???
I think God works in you to help strengthen others....
Please don`t refer to yourself ...someone that I admire so much....as damaged goods....it hurts me.
...It is often very painful, and yes, it is necessary in our system of justice.
Unfortunately the nature of the damage done by the crime of sexual assault itself renders many victims unable to withstand such a trial. A catch 22. Just my opinion, but that is a flaw in our system of justice. A debate currently waged in law schools everywhere.
I am not up on the debate, but I am sure there are areas where we can improve our system.
I believe we also need to acknowledge women who have come forward to bring this crime from the shadows and who have described what has happened to them, some of whom have gone so far as to allow their names to be published with their accounts of being sexually assaulted. Over the years their courage has been inspiring and of great help to other victims.
Our society has made progress down a rough road, but there is much further to go.
Catcup, I thank you for your work helping women.
Indeed I say we all owe catcup a round of applause on this one.
Catcup
who wrote this?
If not you then do you have any reference or acknowledgment? What method was used to arrive at your conclusions? what training and education have you attained specifically?
I read that you are busy and do not want to respond to this thread, yet i feel accurate information and documentation about your credentials would be helpful for the readers to validate your post.
it could be your a intern at a rape crises center or a volunteer , you could be many things, please take a moment to acknowledge your skill set so we can all be on the same page regarding your expertise in this area.
thank you
Pond, it is one thing to question sources, but also one need avoid a "shoot-the-messenger" approach which we see all too often used as a tactic to avoid the issue at hand.
Do you have any specific objections to what catcup posted?
How about some thoughts of your own to advance the discussion topic?
I had no intentions of giving up my virginity until I found the man I would marry. I made this very clear to every guy that liked me when I was a teen so he knew he wasn't gonna get any from me. The ones that stayed I knew were there to enjoy time with me and not just to try to get me into bed.
I was still young, just about to turn 16. I met the guy I was hanging out with and considered my boyfriend at the beach. He was 18 and spending the summer in town with his father. He had gotten the same talk all guys got and we'd been going places together, driving around town in his little VW bug for over a month. He smoked pot on occasion and asked me always if I wanted some, which I declined. I wasn't into drugs. He always asked though .. daily. One day I guess I just got fed up with it and said sure, figured I'd smoke it once with him and he wouldn't bother me again.
The next thing I remember we were at his dad's house and he was helping me down the basement stairs to where he had made his makeshift bedroom for that summer. We hung out down there and watched TV quite often. That night though, he decided to take advantage of my inability to function due to the pot and he didn't stop where he normally did and I lost the one thing that mattered to me the most.
Funny part was I didn't know how to have sex all the way even. I wasn't a bit curious due to wanting to wait. Kissing and hugging were plenty for me at that point in my life. I just had no desire to know until I was ready to marry, then knew I could find out from my mom or books. Turned out I never got that chance and I found out how it was done while I was in a position where I couldn't stop it. All I could do was lay there as the room spun in circles and everything went out of control. I broke up with him shortly after that night and didn't bother saying no to other guys after him I met, it didn't matter anymore, what I treasured was gone and I couldn't get it back. This was in the mid 70's.
In the 80's I was home alone with my newborn son and my brother in law stopped by. He was married to my then husband's sister. He asked to use the rest room and I said sure, then heard him call me. I had to use cloth diapers on the baby due to his sensitive skin and I had a messy one soaking in the toilet. I went in there and removed it, then left him so he could use it. I stopped in the hallway and put the diaper into the diaper pail and as I was walking back down the hall towards the living room, he came out of the rest room right behind me. That's when he started to try to grab me.
I ran into the living room before he caught me, threw me down on the floor and attempted to get my clothes off and kiss me. I bit his tongue as hard as I could which made him stop and relax his grip on me enough that I could get away. I ran to the front door and opened it and went out onto the patio. I then ordered him to leave my house and never come back again.
When my husband got home I told him I was almost raped and by whom. He told me to go ahead and call the cops and make a report, he didn't care if the guy was married to his sister or not. I did just that and even though I did not press charges, I wanted the cops to scare him so he would never do this again. They did their job well. I'm still friends with that cop to this day in fact and have enjoyed watching him rise in his dept. thru the years. Doing this alienated me from the rest of the family of course and to this day they still hate me. They never believed he would do such a thing and claim I made it all up. I had been friendly with him until that day, so had no reason to make such a story up unless it was really true.
Then the 90's hit. I was divorcing yet another husband and stopped by the house to pick up some of my belongings. He was not supposed to be there and until I was inside the house I didn't know he was. I was in the bedroom getting clothes when he came in and closed and locked the door. I told him to get away from me (I was leaving due to physical abuse prior) and to unlock the door so I could leave. He of course blocked my way, threw me down on the bed where I fought him until I had no strength left. He then said goodbye to me 'his way' as he so put it. He didn't hurt me physically, but he really showed me what a sleeze he was by doing that.
Now it's the 2000's. I would pity any guy that tried to touch me that I didn't approach first or given permission to saying he could. Within reach as I sit here at my computer, where I spend the majority of my time, is a blackjack that I would not be in the least bit scared to hit someone with. On the shelves next to me on the left I have a very sharp Buck knife and one very intimidating looking bayonet. On the floor to the right I have a police baton with handle that I know how to use if needed. On the other other side of the room there is a bigger blackjack and a straight baton too. There are sets of handcuffs all around this place. Being with a retired cop for almost 9 years I've gotten quite a collection of nice 'toys'. On the table to the right behind one of my speakers is a bottle of pepper spray.
While I've never had a need to use any of these weapons, I feel more secure when I know they are within reach when I am home alone. My cellphone is always within reach too. I'll be damned if I get raped in the 2000's. The 70's, 80's and 90's were plenty enough for me in my life.
Catcup gives wonderful advice and knows what she's talking about ladies. We all handle it differently when it happens to us. I am fortunate in that I'm the type who can go thru very bad times (what I've talked about above is the least of things I've been thru), without needing to talk about it to someone else, like a doctor, in order to move on. I couldn't have afforded it even if I wanted to. I just accept it happened and moved on. I thanked God I wasn't physically hurt and so there was no lasting damage. The sun always came out the next day and I would begin again as they say.
I've talked to many women online who had the opposite reaction though and done my all to give them a shoulder and drawn from my own personal experience to help them if I could in any way. I do that to anyone on any painful issue that happens in life if I've been thru it, which more than likely I have. Due to losing what I treasured most at almost 16 years old, I made some really bad decisions for many, many years after that. Add TWI into the mix and you have what would make a great Movie of the Week if I ever sit down and write it all out, or so I've been told by those who have heard the majority of my stories. If by talking about the painful things I've been thru, I can help people learn from it and avoid it happening in their lives, then it was worth my going thru it. I do that a lot online with the young teens I meet in different chats I go to. The ability to openly talk about it all helps me, knowing that by telling them the stories, then they will never go thru it in the first place. So it's all good.
A few years back I was with my husband, dolled up in a nightie...
He came over and threw me down, playing the part. The minute he held my shoulders down, something snapped. I freaked out. FREAKED
GET OFF ME, GET OFF NOW, I began screaming. He got up and has been reluctant to touch me since
I am damaged goods, even though I have moved "on" so to speak.
Dot-- this is very common.
This has happened to me as well. Everything is going along just fine until suddenly.... certain moves, certain positionings of his body.... and the exact same thing occurs with me. We have to stop.
I'm sure thankful I've got a great man who understands.
That's another thing. This kind of behavior can really confuse the hell out of our guys. Geek and I talked about this as soon as the possibility of marriage became an issue with us. And at that time in our courtship in 1977-78, I hadn't had sex since I had gotten into the Jesus movement in 1972, so I wasn't sure how I would react when I tried it again. After we were married, it really didn't surface for a while. And when it did, it seemed to come out of the blue, but because we discussed it previously, we both knew what it was and I assured him it wasn't him, but me. But eventually I narrowed it down to what specific things would trigger this panic reaction, and he does his best to avoid those things. Sometimes, it happens anyway. He always says, though, "that's not what I meant to do..." And I have to assure him that I know it wasn't his intent. It is simply a reaction I cannot control. I believe it is a conditioned response.
Boy, I can't believe I put that much of my private life out there.... but you have to know you are not alone in this.
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rascal
((((Bow))) my friend, I am sorry.
I had a neighbor that was a child molester...no, I wasn`t raped, just fondled whenever he could get his hands on me...ew gross...scarey...but I wasn`t physically hurt (His wife was usually never far away, I think that kept him from going further)
Not that this compairs in ANY way with what you experienced....I would not presume to understand how tough it was for you.....but I did want to confirm that this stuff can make you insanely protective of your children.
As a result of that creep.....my children were never EVER left alone or with sitters...even if I trusted my family members, I never allowed the kiddos to spend the night because I didn`t know who THEIR neighbors were or whom they would allow in their homes...boy friends....in laws...etc
No, I wasn`t hurt ...but something was taken from me....My kids have never been to a summer camp...they are rarely allowed anywhere where myself or another parent who has earned my trust implicity through the years is supervising....My kids don`t go hang out at the mall...or get left at a theme park or even the local fair for the day.
I have anxiety attacks when my sisters let their kids do these things....
I knew that I was this way...I just hadn`t connected it with why.
The cliche phrase *innocence stolen* barely conveys what is missing from some one after that experience.....an inability to trust...a way of looking at the world through jaded eyes...of not being able to relax your vigilance ever.
Bow I am so sorry that you were not treasured and protected as you should have been.
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pond
Above? not really i do have a college degree , big deal even a degree doesn't make one an expert.
those who counsel victims are highly experienced and educated, malpractice insurance, and a license is required.
anyone can listen to anyone they chose. the INTERNET is a wide playing field . a friend sometimes can help a person more than all the professional counseling in the world .
love helps everyone.
i minimized nothing i merely asked a question . you guys can look up all the information and help you need in life on the internet .
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wrdsandwrks
Dear ((((Bowtwi))))
Thanks for sharing this. I pray and believe that your children are blessed and protected by your vigilence.
((((Rascal))) too!
I'm glad to know you both!
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Catcup
Well, it certainly doesn't guarantee a person can read with comprehension and/or spell and punctuate, now does it?
Read it. I never claimed to be an expert, I said I speak from my training, my education, and my experience.
You want the name of my malpractice insurer? Yes, I carry it.
Have never needed it.
Which I answered. You simply didn't like the answers you got.
Just what I thought.
You can't handle the message, and so you attacked the messenger.
You can't handle the challenge, you can't do the research, so you back off.
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pond
it is boring catcup do not flatter yourself.
frankly i do not need the attention do you?
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Catcup
If you didn't need the attention, you wouldn't have done what you did, kiddo.
Now, back to my regularly scheduled projects.
Enjoy your little world Pond. You're the biggest fish in the little mudpuddle of your mind.
I have bigger fish to fry...
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Outfield
There she was, the night it was
and there they were
never going to be the same.
Dirty...so dirty - 5 showers later
bleach on the skin
burns
burned
it never happened...she can convince herself
if it's not there...then the reality of never existed.
the dirt will go
the days will pass
and it will be fine
we need more bleach
we all need a clean slate now and again
"What were we to do?" she said.
And that was it.
Everything was in perspective.
"You've built character," he said.
"You had fun," he said.
And all she could think was I did?
Is that fun..was that fun? She got the dictionary... But many pages were missing.
I guess it was?
Maybe it was?
Then she thought...well what is a bad time...if I had fun?
"I loved it," he said..."I love you," he said.
and then it happened - that was it
she knew he was the greastest, most handsome, most convincing
rapist she'd ever meet.
Sex says I'm lovely. Sex says I'm great.
Sex says that he loves to hold me
Sex says he has no disappointments,
He has no loose screws
Sex says he's great, especially after booze
Sex said he lied, he said it was a joke
Sex said you never did like to be choked
Yes, I admit that sex left his mark
Sex was my beloved two faced friend.
I guess Sex's lover Aids got jealous in the end.
What happened...happened.
You're just someone I used to know.
No more nor less
Just a face, a body, a name, a kiss, a night....
I used to know
Sometimes your memory slips into my thoughts
but it's only because it's something I use to know
like santa claus....he never existed therefore neither did you.
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waysider
Outfield
Interesting -----Very interesting.
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Abigail
welcome to the cafe, Outfield. Will you stay for some coffee and pie?
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bowtwi
I know what you mean, Rascal - in one split fraction of a second, our children can lose the innocence that they deserve to enjoy as long as they will, not someone else wills. Whenever the princess goes overnite it's only after I've done my homework on the family and have driven the parents half-nuts with my questions. It's so worth the extra energy it takes to keep them safe.
I go on all the field trips I possibly can so I'm there to supervise personally. She has friends overnight here plenty, but rarely goes out for overnights.
Normal Human Responses to Rape is a fascinating concept to me, as I've known more women that have been raped or at least molested than I know women that have not. I'm intrigued by women who were protected to that extent as girls. I almost interview them, I ask so many questions about their lives.
I think whatever a person (female OR male) has to do in order to heal from the emotional injury is between them and God. I know that I went through a promiscuous stage - those exact words you used above, catcup - at least I'm choosing who, where, and even what specifically - I told myself those words. Fortunately, I didn't live like that for too long.
Looking back, I notice that I had a son right around the time I was heading down a path of self-destruction with alcohol. I had to stop drinking heavily in order to take the care of my precious boy I required of myself. When he was 16, I had the princess. I've had to take reasonably good care of myself in order to take care of them properly. I feel very fortunate, as I know my siblings aren't nearly as healthy that way as I am today.
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rascal
(((abi))) I just read your account. I am so sorry .
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Deciderator
Catcup, nice post starting the thread.
I'll have more to say later, but I think it is important to understand that there is not a stock response to rape, nor are there stock situations with stock answers.
More women have been raped than many men understand because of the many caes that go unreported.
Recovery varies from victim to victim.
In some cases, a person with sexual abuse during their formative years will seem to put out a vibe that victimizers seem to pick up on.
The testimony at trial is not as cut and dried as we might like it. Someimes victims have been so traumatized they don't get the story perfectly straight. Often the perpetrator is not an ogre-looking person, but the sort one would never guess would do such a thing.
For the person accused, and looking at decades in prison, they deserve to mount a strong defense including facing their accuser and having the right of cross-examnation.
This is often painful, but it is necessary in our system of justice.
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Shellon
<_<
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Catcup
You are absolutely right on this. Not every woman will manifest the behaviors I have above described. But the behaviors I have described have been found in a significant percentage of this population.
This also is very true. Recovery can depend on how stable the person is to begin with, what kind of help they receive or don't receive, what kind of relationship they have with and what kind of support they can get from family and friends, among others.
This also can be true, especially if they have not fully recovered from the assault. This is not an intentional "vibe," but sometimes an insecurity left by the initial sexual assault can be so profound, that it cannot be masked by the person who has survived this sexual assault, and many times that person is not able to even recognize their own insecurities. Unfortuately, like some of these assault survivors carry a profound and unmaskable insecurity, sexual predators carry an acute sense of being able to pick up on even the slightest hint of vulnerability. The moment they detect that scent, they hyperfocus on their target.
This is also true, not only of rape trials, but of other kinds as well. I served on a murder trial this summer and witnessed exactly that phenomenon. The details were muddled by trauma, yet the guilt of the accused was obvious. However the state failed to prove its case. It was the very unfortunate case where twelve people knew in their hearts the guy was guilty as sin, but because of technicalities they had to acquit. The verdict did not change the ugly realities of the murder they knew this man committed. It's a flaw in our court system. Our system of justice is not perfect.
Also right on the money. Like I said, the kind of defense tactics used are rigorous, and the defense counsel uses them because it is his/her job to defend the accused. Unfortunately, the tactics are also used to intimidate, which is also the job of the defense counsel.
It is often very painful, and yes, it is necessary in our system of justice.
Unfortunately the nature of the damage done by the crime of sexual assault itself renders many victims unable to withstand such a trial. A catch 22. Just my opinion, but that is a flaw in our system of justice. A debate currently waged in law schools everywhere.
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rascal
((((Bow))) maybe NOW you understand the terror for me when you droven off with Jesse that night?
It didn`t matter that I had YOUR child, A stranger had my daughter and was driving away ... when you didn`t turn at the right place....were headed fro the hiway...and I couldn`t catch you....lol can you understand now my over reaction??? Lol...it goes beyond being protective.
I am glad that you mentioned this because everyone has really thought my neurotic over protection of the kiddoes was funny and I felt stupid. It helps knowing why I do stuff.
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Dot Matrix
Okay, this should go here:
I have/had a problem with the dentist and claustrophobia.
I absolutely freaked at the dentist. I almost climbed out the window... Once, I went up to the receptionist and asked her to sit with me
I cannot do elevators, I can't go into a small bathroom without a window...
I always have the need to escape.
I had these problems for YEARS, after SOM prayed for me I could handle the dentist last time -- but the other day I still could not do an elevator
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Dot Matrix
A few years back I was with my husband, dolled up in a nightie...
He came over and threw me down, playing the part. The minute he held my shoulders down, something snapped. I freaked out. FREAKED
GET OFF ME, GET OFF NOW, I began screaming. He got up and has been reluctant to touch me since
I am damaged goods, even though I have moved "on" so to speak.
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rascal
(((Dot)))
There is an author/comedian that I used to love to listen to. She used to say...God uses *cracked* pots....
Maybe your experience is what makes you so compassionate and kind in your ministering to others? Maybe your own feelings of vulnerability is why you are such a ferocious advocate for animals and you go the extra mile to get them treatment and homes when every body else thainks that it is too much trouble???
I think God works in you to help strengthen others....
Please don`t refer to yourself ...someone that I admire so much....as damaged goods....it hurts me.
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Deciderator
I am not up on the debate, but I am sure there are areas where we can improve our system.
I believe we also need to acknowledge women who have come forward to bring this crime from the shadows and who have described what has happened to them, some of whom have gone so far as to allow their names to be published with their accounts of being sexually assaulted. Over the years their courage has been inspiring and of great help to other victims.
Our society has made progress down a rough road, but there is much further to go.
Catcup, I thank you for your work helping women.
Indeed I say we all owe catcup a round of applause on this one.
Pond, it is one thing to question sources, but also one need avoid a "shoot-the-messenger" approach which we see all too often used as a tactic to avoid the issue at hand.
Do you have any specific objections to what catcup posted?
How about some thoughts of your own to advance the discussion topic?
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Eagle
Catcup and any other woman in this thread:
{{{{{{{HUG}}}}}}}
I have no idea and probably never will on how it would feel in the aftermath of rape. All I can do is listen and try to empathize.
I wish our criminal justice system would not let any of these perps off so easy.
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BikerBabe
I had no intentions of giving up my virginity until I found the man I would marry. I made this very clear to every guy that liked me when I was a teen so he knew he wasn't gonna get any from me. The ones that stayed I knew were there to enjoy time with me and not just to try to get me into bed.
I was still young, just about to turn 16. I met the guy I was hanging out with and considered my boyfriend at the beach. He was 18 and spending the summer in town with his father. He had gotten the same talk all guys got and we'd been going places together, driving around town in his little VW bug for over a month. He smoked pot on occasion and asked me always if I wanted some, which I declined. I wasn't into drugs. He always asked though .. daily. One day I guess I just got fed up with it and said sure, figured I'd smoke it once with him and he wouldn't bother me again.
The next thing I remember we were at his dad's house and he was helping me down the basement stairs to where he had made his makeshift bedroom for that summer. We hung out down there and watched TV quite often. That night though, he decided to take advantage of my inability to function due to the pot and he didn't stop where he normally did and I lost the one thing that mattered to me the most.
Funny part was I didn't know how to have sex all the way even. I wasn't a bit curious due to wanting to wait. Kissing and hugging were plenty for me at that point in my life. I just had no desire to know until I was ready to marry, then knew I could find out from my mom or books. Turned out I never got that chance and I found out how it was done while I was in a position where I couldn't stop it. All I could do was lay there as the room spun in circles and everything went out of control. I broke up with him shortly after that night and didn't bother saying no to other guys after him I met, it didn't matter anymore, what I treasured was gone and I couldn't get it back. This was in the mid 70's.
In the 80's I was home alone with my newborn son and my brother in law stopped by. He was married to my then husband's sister. He asked to use the rest room and I said sure, then heard him call me. I had to use cloth diapers on the baby due to his sensitive skin and I had a messy one soaking in the toilet. I went in there and removed it, then left him so he could use it. I stopped in the hallway and put the diaper into the diaper pail and as I was walking back down the hall towards the living room, he came out of the rest room right behind me. That's when he started to try to grab me.
I ran into the living room before he caught me, threw me down on the floor and attempted to get my clothes off and kiss me. I bit his tongue as hard as I could which made him stop and relax his grip on me enough that I could get away. I ran to the front door and opened it and went out onto the patio. I then ordered him to leave my house and never come back again.
When my husband got home I told him I was almost raped and by whom. He told me to go ahead and call the cops and make a report, he didn't care if the guy was married to his sister or not. I did just that and even though I did not press charges, I wanted the cops to scare him so he would never do this again. They did their job well. I'm still friends with that cop to this day in fact and have enjoyed watching him rise in his dept. thru the years. Doing this alienated me from the rest of the family of course and to this day they still hate me. They never believed he would do such a thing and claim I made it all up. I had been friendly with him until that day, so had no reason to make such a story up unless it was really true.
Then the 90's hit. I was divorcing yet another husband and stopped by the house to pick up some of my belongings. He was not supposed to be there and until I was inside the house I didn't know he was. I was in the bedroom getting clothes when he came in and closed and locked the door. I told him to get away from me (I was leaving due to physical abuse prior) and to unlock the door so I could leave. He of course blocked my way, threw me down on the bed where I fought him until I had no strength left. He then said goodbye to me 'his way' as he so put it. He didn't hurt me physically, but he really showed me what a sleeze he was by doing that.
Now it's the 2000's. I would pity any guy that tried to touch me that I didn't approach first or given permission to saying he could. Within reach as I sit here at my computer, where I spend the majority of my time, is a blackjack that I would not be in the least bit scared to hit someone with. On the shelves next to me on the left I have a very sharp Buck knife and one very intimidating looking bayonet. On the floor to the right I have a police baton with handle that I know how to use if needed. On the other other side of the room there is a bigger blackjack and a straight baton too. There are sets of handcuffs all around this place. Being with a retired cop for almost 9 years I've gotten quite a collection of nice 'toys'. On the table to the right behind one of my speakers is a bottle of pepper spray.
While I've never had a need to use any of these weapons, I feel more secure when I know they are within reach when I am home alone. My cellphone is always within reach too. I'll be damned if I get raped in the 2000's. The 70's, 80's and 90's were plenty enough for me in my life.
Catcup gives wonderful advice and knows what she's talking about ladies. We all handle it differently when it happens to us. I am fortunate in that I'm the type who can go thru very bad times (what I've talked about above is the least of things I've been thru), without needing to talk about it to someone else, like a doctor, in order to move on. I couldn't have afforded it even if I wanted to. I just accept it happened and moved on. I thanked God I wasn't physically hurt and so there was no lasting damage. The sun always came out the next day and I would begin again as they say.
I've talked to many women online who had the opposite reaction though and done my all to give them a shoulder and drawn from my own personal experience to help them if I could in any way. I do that to anyone on any painful issue that happens in life if I've been thru it, which more than likely I have. Due to losing what I treasured most at almost 16 years old, I made some really bad decisions for many, many years after that. Add TWI into the mix and you have what would make a great Movie of the Week if I ever sit down and write it all out, or so I've been told by those who have heard the majority of my stories. If by talking about the painful things I've been thru, I can help people learn from it and avoid it happening in their lives, then it was worth my going thru it. I do that a lot online with the young teens I meet in different chats I go to. The ability to openly talk about it all helps me, knowing that by telling them the stories, then they will never go thru it in the first place. So it's all good.
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Catcup
Dot-- this is very common.
This has happened to me as well. Everything is going along just fine until suddenly.... certain moves, certain positionings of his body.... and the exact same thing occurs with me. We have to stop.
I'm sure thankful I've got a great man who understands.
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Catcup
That's another thing. This kind of behavior can really confuse the hell out of our guys. Geek and I talked about this as soon as the possibility of marriage became an issue with us. And at that time in our courtship in 1977-78, I hadn't had sex since I had gotten into the Jesus movement in 1972, so I wasn't sure how I would react when I tried it again. After we were married, it really didn't surface for a while. And when it did, it seemed to come out of the blue, but because we discussed it previously, we both knew what it was and I assured him it wasn't him, but me. But eventually I narrowed it down to what specific things would trigger this panic reaction, and he does his best to avoid those things. Sometimes, it happens anyway. He always says, though, "that's not what I meant to do..." And I have to assure him that I know it wasn't his intent. It is simply a reaction I cannot control. I believe it is a conditioned response.
Boy, I can't believe I put that much of my private life out there.... but you have to know you are not alone in this.
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Deciderator
Bikerbabe, I am so sad after reading your story. I'll be thinking about it all day.
Another great weapon is a knife that hangs handle down in a scabbard from a string or chain around your neck.
With all this trauma, counseling with a good therapist can help a lot.
There is nothing wrong with getting professional help when you need it.
Many communities have free services to help rape victims or people who have suffered trauma.
I'll be putting you in my prayers today.
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