Normal Human Responses to Rape

[Catcup]

What I call the "Broiling Cesspool Thread" has generated a lot of private messages to me with people asking questions. One person in particular brought up the puzzling post-rape behavior of someone she knew and wanted to understand it better, so I am posting this in the hopes that it might answer some questions you all are asking, and help folks better understand the dynamics between human beings.

I do not at this time have the luxury to indulge answering any more questions on this forum, as I am simultaneously involved in several intense projects, revising a book, and getting ready for the semester to begin. Consider this simply a public service announcement. Discuss all you want, and do with the information what you will. The information contained herein is part of my education and training in counseling both women and men who have been raped.

Normal Human Responses to Rape

Question:

"1. When I was in college a friend of mine - a very, very, very quiet and meek girl - was raped in the lobby of her apt building. Within months she became HIGHLY promiscuous! I mean - she was screwing anyone she could find. It was almost like she had said to herself, "Okay, THIS time I get to choose!"

2. I know of instances where some of VP's victims (true victims and not "pimps") became very promiscuous as well.

Anyway - the question I guess is : Is what I've noticed a "usual" thing?"

Answer:

In response to your question regarding the behavior of the woman you knew, it's not necessarily that they say to themselves "Okay, this time I get to choose!"

Rape gets to the core of your very being and deeply affects your self-image. In response to the assault, many victims blame themselves for what occured, and are at risk to begin to think they contributed to the situation somehow by their behavior or the way they dressed. Was my makeup too heavy? Was my skirt too short? Was my shirt too lowcut? Were my jeans too tight? Was my walk too suggestive? Did I say the wrong thing? Were my curtains open at night? Did I leave my door or window unlocked? The list of self-doubting questions go on and on ad infinitum. They begin to minutely pick themselves apart all on their own, believing that somehow it is their fault and that they somehow sexually aroused someone else. This is a huge flaw in not only the understanding of the victim, but also in the understanding of the general public.

The main thing everyone needs to understand about the crime of rape itself, is that in the mind and motivations of the perpetrator, rape is NOT primarily about sex.

Rape is primarily about the power and control one person wields over another.

The offender many times truly believes in his own mind (this is a delusion) that the person "wanted it," and will finish up by telling them so. Along with that, he many times will make threats that if he or she goes to the police, either (a.) No one will believe you, or (b.) "I know where you [or your loved one lives, works, shops, goes to school, etc.] and I will and xyz..."

Especially if the attacker is someone the victim knows, at this time any power or authority the perpetrator possesses which he can use to intimidate his victim will be employed. And this is what it's all about. The heady and intoxicating power the perpetrator gets in humiliating his victim, overpowering them, controlling them, and manipulating them into submission. That, my friends, is what rape is truly about. It's a power trip.

The immediate almost universal response afterward is to feel absolutely filthy, and an overpowering, almost irresistable need to get clean causes many victims to head to the shower. It is very common for these people to wash themselves repeatedly for hours, even scrubbing themselves to the point they bleed, if they aren't bleeding already.

I will repeat: The urge to do this is so overpowering after a rape, that this is part of the reason rape is difficult to prosecute. The evidence is often easily washed away.

That is why the advice given to women in self-defense classes and such is that, if you are raped, DO NOT SHOWER OR CHANGE YOUR CLOTHES. CALL 911 AND WAIT FOR THEM TO ARRIVE.

It is hard enough to get people who are raped by strangers to do this. Unfortunately, people who are raped by someone they know, are even more likely to doubt themselves, and delay filing a report. This increases the likelihood that any evidence is lost by waiting days, weeks, months, or even years to say anything, because they so heavily blame themselves.

Another reason people respond to rape the way they do, is how rape victims have been routinely treated. Even the questioning by the police officers who are attempting to help you, will by its very nature be intrusive. At this time, this adds to the trauma, and even the way it is done can unfortunately reflect personal attitudes of the interviewer (even though they are supposed to not allow that to happen), which can be either good or bad. That can either help or hurt the victim, depending on how the officer conducts himself. Questions are asked about the type of clothing worn, the activities just prior and immediately after the incident, ugly details of the rape itself, and this adds to the victim's trauma.

In the courtroom, the typical courtroom defense tactic is, and always has been, to attack the victim's character. Why? Because they know that is the tactic that works and is the most likely to get their client off the hook, which is their job. Every bit of dirt about your past, no matter how distant and unrelated, is fair game for an attorney to dig up and throw out into the public domain. So, typically, traumatized rape victims don't want their lives on display like that. The trauma of retelling the event is like being raped all over again, this time, in public. And then on cross examination, it's even worse.

Knowing the gauntlet they have to run through in order to prosecute the crime, many remain silent and limp on with their lives.

Rape is not something you should ever try to survive alone.

However, the fear involved in telling their story, prevents so many people from coming forward or seeking any kind of help at all. Many times, not only do they not prosecute the crime, but they also don't tell anyone. It is a very personal, embarassing crime, which many feel a great deal of shame about, for all the reasons I have outlined. As a result, many people who have suffered this crime, also do not get counseling.

Consequently, the damage to the self-image and self-esteem of victims of this crime is severe, even to someone who was well-adjusted to begin with. However, those who have been victims of any kind of violent crime previously, or previously abused in any way, or have any other mental health issues no matter how small or severe, can experience symptoms with increasing severity and/or frequency, relapses, fall deeper into depression, and even develop psychosis. It is quite common for ANY rape victim, no matter what their background, to at this time develop post traumatic stress disorder.

Regarding your question about promiscuity:

Due to the blow to self-esteem, depression, and identity confusion, many men or women see society as having branded them as "damaged goods" because of their rape experience, and begin to develop self-destructive behaviors, like the promiscuity you mention. It's not that they say "Hey, I'm going to choose now." It is the fact that they, as a result of the trauma, believe they are the scum they've been told they are, develop a self-loathing, and begin to engage in self-destructive behavior.

Some suddenly become promiscuous. Others begin behaviors like self-mutilation. Others drink heavily or abuse drugs. Some turn to food and suddenly will gain 100 or more pounds, in an effort to destroy a once-beautiful body they feel betrayed them. The subconscious belief is, the fat will insulate them from another attack, because now they will be repulsive. Others turn to criminal behavior such as shoplifting. Some abuse others. This is all self-loathing behavior.

So that is all I have time for at the moment. I hope this helps answer a few of your questions about the way human beings normally respond to rape.

Edited August 2, 2007 by Catcup

[pond]

Catcup

who wrote this?

If not you then do you have any reference or acknowledgment? What method was used to arrive at your conclusions? what training and education have you attained specifically?

I read that you are busy and do not want to respond to this thread, yet i feel accurate information and documentation about your credentials would be helpful for the readers to validate your post.

it could be your a intern at a rape crises center or a volunteer , you could be many things, please take a moment to acknowledge your skill set so we can all be on the same page regarding your expertise in this area.

thank you

Edited August 2, 2007 by pond

[rascal]

Thank you for taking the time to post the above information. It explaines much.

Edited August 2, 2007 by rascal

[Catcup]

Catcup

who wrote this?

If not you then do you have any reference or acknowledgment? What method was used to arrive at your conclusions? what training and education have you attained specifically?

thank you

I WROTE THIS.

Like I said in the original post, it is in response to a flurry of private message questions due to the Broiling Cesspool Thread.

My four year education as both a CCE and Doula beginning in 1989 included a specialty in identifying sexually abused clients and how to help them during pregnancy, labor, delivery, and postpartum. I was a member of ICEA for about 10 years and beginning in 1997 worked several more years for an agency in the Cleveland metroplitan area doing this work. I sat at the feet of people like Penny Simkin, Paulina Perez, and Cheryl Snedeker. Anyone in the field will recognize the significance of those names. I worked privately teaching, identifying, and following high-risk (abused) patients for Dr. Rawlins. I am currently a double major at a private college in the Cleveland area: Psychology with a concentration in Social Psychology, and History with a concentration in Middle Eastern Studies.

Anything I have posted here regarding this kind of human behavior has been general knowledge in the medical and counseling professions for many years, and is easily accessible at any rape crisis counseling center

Edited August 2, 2007 by Catcup

[Abigail]

Well summarized, C.C.

[Eyesopen]

Catcup-Lady, you have no idea how much you just helped me. Not only with myself but with a dear friend as well. Through the tears in my eyes and the quiver in my voice I say "Thank you, so very much for taking the time and the heat to speak out here in this place."

I WROTE THIS.

I hope you don't mind but I'm going to print it out to share with my friend. Let me know if this is not acceptable.

[Catcup]

Catcup-Lady, you have no idea how much you just helped me. Not only with myself but with a dear friend as well. Through the tears in my eyes and the quiver in my voice I say "Thank you, so very much for taking the time and the heat to speak out here in this place."

I hope you don't mind but I'm going to print it out to share with my friend. Let me know if this is not acceptable.

You go right ahead if you think it will help her. That's why I posted this.

[TheHighWay]

Catcup,

Whew! gal, I knew you were smart and amazing, but I had no idea the amount of credentials you had backing you up!!

Thanks for posting this summary. I have seen many of the symptoms you describe in acquaintances who had been abused and never got help, but now I feel like I understand more of what was driving those symptoms.

THW

[pond]

a daula is a non medical person who "aids " pregnate women. no education is required. possibly some training or a cert from the state.

what is a CCE? a certificate ?

I know what NBCC is. well.

So you worked with pregnate woman and aided women since 1989 in a non medical field, and your working on going to school now with the dual major, but have not yet worked as a professional .

your expertise comes from experience working with and for women, while seeking education to pursue a professional career.

ok thank you for your quick reply.

[Abigail]

Pond,

You can do your own research on the internet and you will find that research data supports exactly what Catcup said. It isn't hard to do and would only take abut 30 minutes or so.

[Catcup]

a daula is a non medical person who "aids " pregnate women. no education is required. possibly some training or a cert from the state.

what is a CCE? a certificate ?

I know what NBCC is. well.

So you worked with pregnate woman and aided women since 1989 in a non medical field, and your working on going to school now with the dual major, but have not yet worked as a professional .

your expertise comes from experience working with and for women, while seeking education to pursue a professional career.

ok thank you for your quick reply.

I am a certified childbirth educator (CCE). That is a minimum 2 year certificate that is internationally and professionally recognized.

I am a doula, not a "daula." An education IS required if you want to be certified. That is another minimum 2 year certificate that is internationally and professionally recognized. That adds up to four years of education and training, not to mention continuing education credits to keep up certifications. You want me to total my hours for you? Sheesh. And I was trained personally by the top recognized names in the field.

There are standards that one must prove to have met to have those designations and to keep meeting them. My certificates are not simply recognized by the state. Mine are recognized internationally. I met and continue to meet very stringent standards.

I have worked professionally since 1989 having served an apprenticeship during my training. I worked not only with Dr. Rawlins after my certification but also an agency in the Cleveland Metropolitan area. And yes, childbirth education and related issues are considered part of the "medical" field.

I am currently working in both of the fields of my majors, while attending school full time.

And let me add this to it: 4.0 gpa, Dean's List, memberships in International Honor Societies related to both of my majors (Pi Gamma Mu for Social Sciences and Phi Alpha Theta for History) and scholarships so I have no out of pocket expenses. If that isn't good enough for you, then nothing is.

Edited August 2, 2007 by Catcup

[wrdsandwrks]

I WROTE THIS.

Dear Catcup,

Thanks so much for taking the time to put this together for us. Your credentials plus experience plus obvious compassion and godly concern for others makes you a precious gift to this forum and to anyone you minister to.

[coolchef]

pond, why are you on cc's foot like that?

thays not like you. cc thanks for helping people

Edited August 2, 2007 by coolchef

[pond]

yes child birth such as a midwife nurse Dr etc related field are in the medical field.

a "doula" is a helper a support an aid and is classified as NON medical, your may work in a medical facility or around medical personel as an aid but they are cetified not professional and that isnt eve required in most states. all certifications work under a licensed educated professional.

I'm not saying it is good work but you are not on a interdisciplinary team as an aid or helper to those in labor or pregnant.

Listen catcup i really do not want to make the time to deflate your ego, but the bottom line is abby is right anyone can look up what you write on an internet and you really have nothing as far as expertise or education on paper other than you think so written in bold.

watching baby's gush out for a few years and a college student hardly an expert makes.

you can pretend all you want and I'm truly happy people love you and think your worth listening to for advice. anything to help.

[Abigail]

Listen catcup i really do not want to make the time to deflate your ego, but the bottom line is abby is right anyone can look up what you write on an internet and you really have nothing as far as expertise or education on paper other than you think so written in bold.

That was way out of line, Pond - to take something I said to you, and twist it into an insult toward CatCup. Yes, perhaps anyone can look up the statistics on the internet, but CatCup is the one who took the information and put it together into a beautifully written summary explanation. Likewise, the only reason she went into her educational background is becuase YOU asked her. She was not being egotistical, she was answering your question.

Edited August 2, 2007 by Abigail

[Shellon]

Pond, Catcup established her credibility here LONG AGO and has always always been forthcoming about her life, her education, her purpose and intent here.

What are your credentials in your field? What is your profession, whom have you served, where have you facilitated change and assist?

What qualifies you to judge whether or not catcup is credible?

She has ever spoken honestly and in an educated, experienced manner. And you?

Please post your transcripts and resume and referances. While you're gathering all that together can we please resume the thread of import that actually serves a purpose?

Edited August 2, 2007 by Shellon Fockler-North

[Eyesopen]

Listen catcup i really do not want to make the time to deflate your ego, but the bottom line is abby is right anyone can look up what you write on an internet and you really have nothing as far as expertise or education on paper other than you think so written in bold.

watching baby's gush out for a few years and a college student hardly an expert makes.

you can pretend all you want and I'm truly happy people love you and think your worth listening to for advice. anything to help.

How dare you?

You dont want to make the time...but you did make the time to write this insult. Amazing! And sad.

Thank you so much for giving her your blessing to help people.

Sorry folks that just got under my skin a bit...

Edited August 2, 2007 by Eyesopen

[Twinky]

Catcup, thanks, nice summary. Nice creds, too.

Very little about rape is about anything sexual. The penis is just another weapon (in this context), like a gun, a baseball bat, an open knife. A weapon wielded by a bully to terrify a weaker person.

Sympathies to those who have suffered rape or abuse of power anywhere. Especially from TWI.

[Catcup]

yes child birth such as a midwife nurse Dr etc related field are in the medical field.

a "doula" is a helper a support an aid and is classified as NON medical, your may work in a medical facility or around medical personel as an aid but they are cetified not professional and that isnt eve required in most states. all certifications work under a licensed educated professional.

Maybe you'd better do more research to find out what kind of doulas exist and what their training requires to actually be employed.

I'm not saying it is good work but you are not on a interdisciplinary team as an aid or helper to those in labor or pregnant.

You truly are ignorant. I am part of an interdisciplinary team. Look up the word "interdisciplinary."

Listen catcup i really do not want to make the time to deflate your ego, but the bottom line is abby is right anyone can look up what you write on an internet and you really have nothing as far as expertise or education on paper other than you think so written in bold.

My ego is just fine, thank you very much. Your response is not surprising to me, seeing that it comes from someone who at least appears can neither read with comprehension nor barely spell well enough to put a sentence together.

Maybe you ought to look again at my credentials.

What makes YOU an expert, eh?

[railroader II]

I normally do not get involved in these particular discussions but for CC's sake I say this to Pond and anyone else who questions CC's credentials or compassion.

Get off your soap box and apologize!!!

You have crossed the line in attacking in this manner. This young lady has laid out her background and work history. That is good enough for me. I have spent many years in volunteer service and I have NEVER seen someone's training questioned by anyone the way Catcup's have been by certain people. It makes me wonder if there is another motive behind the comments???

Catcup, I give you a well-earned thank you for a great post and a great job in your field.

[Sunesis]

Yes Pond, I'd also like to know your credentials, years of schooling, degrees whatever. I'd like to know what your credentials are that give you the right to judge, and how many people you have worked with in this field, how many victims you have personally worked with and counseled, please, tell us so we can judge.

Please share with us.

Put up or shut up.

You're sounding very much like a self-righteous pharisee.

What drives you to tear her down and minimize her?

Let's see what your credentials are that make you so special, holier-than-thou and above Catcup.

What credentials do you have that give you the right to judge and minimize her work, certifications, credentials and experience?

I can just see Christ someday, "good job Pond, you sure put Catcup in her place, you were a great Judge, you sure made her look stupid, didn't you." Makes you feel good all over, doesn't it Pond?

I'm sure God is so "proud" of the stand you just took, isn't he? Gives you a warm feeling all over, doesn't it?

Boy, you showed Catcup. You sure showed us.

Edited August 2, 2007 by Sunesis

[Catcup]

I appreciate everyone's support, I really do.

But I don't need an apology from Pond,

I have a challenge to POND:

If you don't accept my credentials, that's fine with me.

Deal with the content:

PROVE THE INFORMATION WRONG.

And do it from ACCEPTED JOURNALS FROM THE MEDICAL AND SOCIAL SCIENCE FIELDS.

Here, just a few suggestions:

Annals of behavioral medicine

Applied & preventive psychology

Clinical practice and epidemiology in mental health

Clinical psychology

Clinical psychology and psychotherapy

Clinical psychology review

Health psychology

International journal of behavioral medicine

Journal of health psychology

Journal of social and clinical psychology

Professional psychology

Professional psychology, research, and practice

Psychology, health & medicine

Stress and Health

Stress medicine

New England Journal of Medicine

Social Science Review

Be my guest.

Edited August 2, 2007 by Catcup

[Abigail]

eh hemmmm. Attempting to get this thread back on track . . . .

Rape gets to the core of your very being and deeply affects your self-image. In response to the assault, many victims blame themselves for what occured, and are at risk to begin to think they contributed to the situation somehow by their behavior or the way they dressed . . .

SNIP

It is hard enough to get people who are raped by strangers to do this. Unfortunately, people who are raped by someone they know, are even more likely to doubt themselves, and delay filing a report. This increases the likelihood that any evidence is lost by waiting days, weeks, months, or even years to say anything, because they so heavily blame themselves. . . . .

SNIP

However, the fear involved in telling their story, prevents so many people from coming forward or seeking any kind of help at all. Many times, not only do they not prosecute the crime, but they also don't tell anyone. It is a very personal, embarassing crime, which many feel a great deal of shame about, for all the reasons I have outlined. As a result, many people who have suffered this crime, also do not get counseling. . . .

SNIP

Regarding your question about promiscuity:

Due to the blow to self-esteem, depression, and identity confusion, many men or women see society as having branded them as "damaged goods" because of their rape experience, and begin to develop self-destructive behaviors, like the promiscuity you mention. It's not that they say "Hey, I'm going to choose now." It is the fact that they, as a result of the trauma, believe they are the scum they've been told they are, develop a self-loathing, and begin to engage in self-destructive behavior.

Some suddenly become promiscuous. Others begin behaviors like self-mutilation. Others drink heavily or abuse drugs. Some turn to food and suddenly will gain 100 or more pounds, in an effort to destroy a once-beautiful body they feel betrayed them. The subconscious belief is, the fat will insulate them from another attack, because now they will be repulsive. Others turn to criminal behavior such as shoplifting. This is all self-loathing behavior.

So that is all I have time for at the moment. I hope this helps answer a few of your questions about the way human beings normally respond to rape.

I was raped the summer going into my senior year in high school. I was at a party and got totally smashed. I was raped while unconscious and came to in the middle of the act. I was raped by a boy I had known and been friends with for 5 years. I never saw it coming, never would have expected it, he was someone I trusted.

It was years and years and years before I really talked about it. Hell, it was years and years and years before I even truly acknowledged to myself that what occured was even rape. It took my life completely off course and sent me spiraling into sex, drugs, alcohol, and eventually TWI too.

And who would have believed it was rape? I broke up with the boy I was dating because I felt guilty, like I had cheated on him. I didn't tell him why. Eventually, a couple years later, I finally did tell him why. It took him many many many years later to find me and finally ask me why I didn't fight back. I was dumbfounded. How could I fight back? I was unconscious!!! But on some level, some part of me was so angry that he asked me that question, that something finally snapped inside of me and I really truly came to understand that what happened to me was not my fault.

Yes, it was dumb of me to get so drunk. But I was with people I had known and trusted for years. I never, ever could have imagined one of them would do that to me.

[DogLover]

Yes, I don't usually get involved in these discussions, either, but Catcup has long since proved her credentials. Pond, you need to back off AND learn how to spell, capitalize, and punctuate if you are going to be taken seriously in your questioning. Perhaps you should consider whether what Catcup has said "hits too close to home" and that's why you are trying to disagree with it. I don't mean this to sound ugly ... it's just that sometimes if we have a strong reaction to something, we need to step back and see if something that is being said out of concern and with a view to help (as Catcup's post was) is being taken by us to be personal in nature. She isn't attacking anyone, personal or otherwise ... she is offering help and yes, expertise, to those who may want to avail themselves of it.

If you do not choose to avail yourself of her expertise, fine. Use the time you would have spent reading and responding to this thread in a more productive way ... not attacking someone who posted information out of a good heart with the intention of helping someone.

[rascal]

Good lord almighty...I certainly hope that you don`t allow this foolishness to deter you from posting helpfull information in the futrue Catcup.

I have no idea why some one would want to call you on the carpet over this stuff.