At my request my former daughter in law and I took my grandson to the pediatric dental clinic. He is 4 years old with 10+ cavities and needs over $2000 worth of fillings (price includes general anesthesia. F-D-I-L says no way she can afford that. She doesn't want the hassle of signing him up for Medicaid and may or may not decide to get him on her insurance for dental. She simply stated "No way am I paying for that!"
The chlid's teeth are painful to him. There are certain foods he doesnt' want to chew.
I am actually going to get a part time job so I can pay for his care in case she simply blows this off. She doesn't seem to much care, except that my bugging her about it is an irritant. My son would love to help but has lots of bills to pay.
My question is: First of all, is it common to just let baby teeth go like this? My parents dragged me to the dentist all the time, but I was an only child and perhaps somewhat cossetted.
Second, if this young woman continues to neglect her son's dental distress, do we have any legal recourse? My understanding of Ohio law is that as long as he has a roof over his head, clothes to wear and food to eat, that is all that matters normally. However, if there is illness involved and she deliberately neglects that, it can be a matter for CPS to investigate. When I worked at the cancer hospital, there was a mom who didn't want her small child treated for cancer as she would have to have him there at 7 am and she liked to sleep until at least 11 am. We called CPS and she changed her mind quickly.
In my view, she is guilty of neglect! Pure and simple. I can understand not having funds for this. But not being willing to sign him up for Medicaid, which would restore his dental health and also keep him on the right path in that regard.
There are some diseases that may show early cavities but it's more likely they are "hard luck cavities". My son had plenty of them..they were caused by a partial malformation of his molar teeth. Was there sufficient dietary calcium and other minerals during pregnancy? how about now?
If he were my grandson, I would not warn her, I'd just call children's services - - she's had all the warnings she needs from you.
In addition it disturbs me greatly that this has happened because I'll bet much of the discussion has taken place within earshot of the child. What must he be thinking? I'm not "worth"----? And when he finally does to to a dentist his experiences are likely to be painful.
In answer to your other question - - it's not common, but some children do develop cavities in these teeth. Some dentists fill everything. Some don't fill small cavities if it's likely the tooth will be lost soon. My son had 1 hard luck cavity at his first dental visit. That was filled then. He was treated with fluoride (in the tray) in the office at his regular visits.
There was a sealant available at that time (and I imagine it still is) but most children don't need it, and it's pretty expensive. I made an appointment to have that applied as well. I say all this just to let you know that there are so many things which can be done to help this youngster's dental health, that if no-or very low cost treatment is not accepted, it is the same thing as neglect and is inexcusable.
a birth defect. medicaid would be granted if that is the case. but i will tell you no state cps worker will encourage or help anyone go on welfare roles. it is a conflict of interest if the parents ssys they do not want assistance, so they would have to go to court and prove the child is at risk and take custody of his care. not necessarily living in foster car it could be just his medical care while custodial parent recieves conseling. this is very diffiult to prove, and if they do you also could get tangled in a battle or his care. if the states takes responsibility for his care YOU will have no say so as well, but they may grant some vistitation.
i do not balme her for not wanting to sign up for assistance to let you know my kids went to the dentist twice a year for cleaning even the baby teeth.. what happens to them could effect the adult teeth. the adult teeth are already in his mouth formed since her pregancy and they could be getting damage as well from his baby teeth. i would look into some help for him .
I know it is not uncommon. When I taught preschool I would have parents who were shocked-shocked! --that their 4 year old couldn't run around the preschool all day with a no spill sipper cup full of juice like he did at home.
We had plenty of water to quench thirst, in reach of the children.
Constant sugar baths aren't good for anyone's teeth--plus in a day care situation, those hard plastic sippers could be dangerous as kids jostle aroung--teeth can get knocked out.
Neglecting the baby teeth can have serious, long term negative consequences on the adult teeth - which will be even more expensive to repair. It can also cause other health problems.
Some kids are just naturally more prone to cavities than others. There are preventatives beyond brushing and flossing, including limiting sugar filled food and drinks. Floride treatments and sealants also go a long way.
Every state is different, so while what Pond said may apply to your state, it also may very well not. I would investigate the medicaid possiblity as well as CPS if necessary. If she is neglecting his dental health, what other issues might she be neglecting as well?
I don't know anything about dentistry, but that number of cavities and sensitivity just seems wrong.
I admire you for taking a job to pay for this. Nonetheless, you should try to get a commitment from your daughter inlaw to at least match your contribution. I get the feeling that there are habits that need to change, such as diet and brushing, and they're not going to change unless she feels some of the pain of fixing the problem. Remember that the child still has 14 years until he's an adult and that's plenty of time for another couple $2000 dental bills if things don't change.
The first was when Krys called it child neglect. She is absolutely correct.
I don't know what state Pond is from but in AZ, CPS workers very likely WOULD help get the mother signed up for medicaid.
Abi's correct that neglecting the baby teeth can be very serious.
I volunteer at a children's shelter. I've seen kids there who have suffered this kind of neglect. In AZ, the CPS would most likely try to get the mother (or pretty much force her) to sign up and get the teeth taken care of... or if she wouldn't, then take the kid. But they'd rather not remove the kid from the home if they can get the need taken care of with the child still with the parent.
WG, you are RIGHT ON THE MARK for having this concern.
I'd hope to get SUDO's insight (since he's a dentist)...
And if you can get a part time job to pay for the care, it certainly would behoove the FDIL to take advantage of your help.
Further, there's lot's of examples in the US these days of grandparents having to (or getting to) raise grandchildren instead of the parent(s) for whatever reason.
The FDIL comes from one of the most dysfunctional families I have ever seen. I don't want to go into it here. She has a 19-year-old brother who has NEVER been to a dentist. She did drink some milk and take prenatal vitamins when she was pregnant, but she doesn't like much except fast food. She laughs at me because I make home cooked meals all the time. She needed a root canal when she was 20 and has never gotten it.
The dental folks at OSU said his dental disease was caused by poor diet, lots of sugar, and poor hygiene. He is to drink nothing but white milk and tap water. So the next day he has a big bottle of grape juice, a candy bar, some fruit bit (jelly) type things and sweeted applesauce in his lunch. I had picked him up, and I threw it out, and called her - that was all she had and I guess it was inconvenient to run to the grocery.
He has never liked to drink water. We kept him Saturday and Sunday last weekend, and of course I, being a tight-lipped, straight-laced, rule-obeying, tight-a$$ (in her view) gave him white milk and mostly water. He drank the whole glass of water and was praised to the skies. But I majorly doubt he gets it at home.
Y-all, he was on Medicaid last year. She needed to reapply in January of this year but "didn't have the time" to go fill out the damn forms. I suspect last week she didn't finish filling out the forms because she had a hair appointment at the salon where her mom works. Much more important to get your hair dyed some new color when you are bored with being a blonde.
She didn't used to be like this. When he was a baby, she was afraid to leave him with me, because I hadn't handled a baby in many years. She was very solicitious. But she has discovered the party life, and has different men staying over on a short term basis. I guess her priorities have changed.
I am so appreciative of your advice. He does have a guardian ad litem from the days when she was suing for sole custody and never to let my son see his child, which she didn't for over a yaer. I am going to get my son to ask her about the insurance papers she allegedly was filing to put him on her insurance, and if she has not, I think he and I will get in touch with the G.A.L.
I cannot imagine having a child in pain and saying "NO WAY am I paying for that!"
My son has a hearing the end of this month regarding his child support. IF he makes it through this one I am probably not going to be as meek and humble around this young woman. If he doesn't make it through, I will have to be nice as this is the only way I will see my grandson. She has total control. I suspect she has played us for some time. Her sweetness started to melt once I retired and didn't have as much money. She is getting regular child support now and won't spend a dime of it on her son. She is getting over $400 a month more than she was and of course she only works part time.
We have been between a rock and a hard place with this young woman for a while now. Her mom moved in with her and they are both big time partiers. The baby needs to be with his dad IMO. Dad is working, has a lovely fiancee who adores the little guy and vice versa.
Oh and Pond, my husband teaches, and he has seen kids who live with their grandparents sent right back to mom after she gets out of prison for selling drugs. I want my son to have at least joint custody, but I doubt the mom lets it happen without a fight. The child is her trump card to get what she wants. He is eligible for Medicaid, but it is a hassle to fill out the papers, according to her.
or she doesnt want to submit information about other houshold membersand their finanacial resource which would be included in the application. you may not really know why.
I can tell you in this county in NY they DO NOT cover teeth. unless it is very serious problem, surgery etc. two counties over they do. it depends on the county budget etc.. polictics. a birth defect determined by the dr. would allow medicaid to pay for him regardless of the incom of the parents.
we have a clinic for reduced charges but the wait is months between appt. and it is students so the detist changes evey year. then you have to start over.
a trump card? for what to get your son involved in another relationship with her that involves more than what they have now?
no authority can force medical care, they would have to take over his gaurdianship , and that here is not done lightly, frankly the state does not have enough workers to make sure a parent does what the state decides is best . NY is liberal in this area . It may or may not be considered an issue.
The county where she lives is pretty assidulous about taking care of its kids, especially since errors are always brought to glaring light by the press. It is one of the fastest growing counties in Ohio. Also she herself has involved the courts from time to time, since she only works part time and wants more child support and less involvement with anyone else.
She lives in a nice two bedroom apartment. Originally it was her and her sister. She can't afford $600/month rent by herself. The sister moved in with her boyfriend. Her mamma moved in. The child at age 4 sleeps in a king sized bed with her. She met some guy on a phone dating service called Lava Line. He lived in IL, she had him come over to OH and live with her, her mother and my grandson for two weeks. Since the second bedroom belongs to her mother, God knows where the little guy slept while he was there. He used her car while he lived there, and apparently proved to be not so nice and she asked him to leave and he moved on to another state. Then she dated a foreign guy from the Middle East. I don't know that he lived there but he sure seemed to know his way around the apt. Her mom, by the way, doesn't much like me and thinks I am a stick-in-the-mud.
Right now, the sister is taking a hiatus from her stud, so she moved in. They moved the mother in with the FDIL and grandson so sister can have her own room. The $900 crib that makes into a day bed and then a full size bed ithat we gave them when they were married has been taken apart and shoved in the closet. I offered to store it, since he obviously is never going to use it and sleeps with his head on mommie's bosom at age 4, which I have been told by sociial workers is considered incestous whether any overt activity is happening or not. She won't give it up.
This shocks the he11 out of me. I am admittedly old, stodgy, not with-it, and go to church (gasp!) but if I had so much as held hands with some guy in front of MY mom, I would have heard about it. And did. And this chick moves some guy she doesn't even really know in with her and that's fine with her mother. It scares the he11 out of me. Some handsome, sexy stud who was a serial killer or rapist , or God forbid, a pedophile, could move right in with her. I don't think the county would do anything about it, either. As long as my grandson is not beaten within an inch or his life, raped, or worse, she is the mamma and can do as she pleases.
I really don't give a rat's nose if Medicaid would cover his dental work. She CAN get insurance to cover it, but doesn't WANT to pay the money to do it, and considersdit a great inconvenience brought upon her by me, the interfering former mother-in-law. But we have spent a LOT of money taking care of things for our grandchild that she won't or can't.
And if I act on any or at least much of this, I will lose him forever.
WG....I'd like to see you preseent this in the prayer forum.
I will but not right away. I have to go shopping for clothes to wear to job interviews and get my Zyrtec refilled so I don't sneeze in the middle of one!
I am gonig to try to get my son to talk to her tomorrow when he picks up his son for the weekend.
I didn't really want to enter the part time old fart job market just yet, but I feel she leaves me no choice. Even if she does get him dental insurance, there will be a copay and she won't want to be bothered with that.
I am really, really pi$$ed off at this young woman. Pray I don't say anything that will make matters worse.
You can count me in the prayer to not say anything worse too.
im in the middle of a battle myself. not my kids tho thank God.
as far as her personal life it really isnt any of your business, unless you feel compelled to get authorities involved and take custody of the boy . that probably would make for some hard feelings all around that would not help the kid much.
if i ever get any money i will give it to my grands. no lick with that yet but god is still on the throne.
I nice thing to do for the grands, which we have done for ours, is a 529 account. I don't know that they are called that in your neck of the woods, but I think every state has one. It is a savings account specifically for college. Anyone can contribute to it once it is properly set up, either as a one time gift or as a payroll deduction. We have been putting in $40/month for 1 1/2 years and it is already up to $3000. It gathers interest. If the child reaches college age and decides not to go, you can cash it in for 10% fee and go on one heckuva vacation.
In my state, they have a program separate from Medicaid, where the state basically provides health coverage for any child where the parents have none. It coveres eyes, teeth, and medical, and prescriptions, and the parent pays very little out of pocket. It's called "chips" here but it may have another name in other states. And signing up for it doesn't automatically put you onto the welfare system. They are separate. I used it a couple of times as I was transitioning between jobs and had no insurance myself. It was a lifesaver!!
Yup, all states have programs, one needs to dig and ask around sometimes.
In Michigan, we use MIChild, which is a low cost insurance program just a step up from Medicaid and parents like it better because it still provides the coverage but they don't feel like a 'loser' as they pay 10$ each month.
I use it and it covers everything for my 12 year old except orthodontics; some states cover even that. If my daughter wants glasses frames not on the list, I have to pay the differance, as well as her newly desired contacts, but it's a good program.
Additionally Medicaid programs are good, use them if needed.
WG, your daughter might eventually be denied services and fall off the rolls for 'noncompliance' if she continues to not show up for appointments with her worker, not sending in the paperwork, etc.
Sometimes it can take a year plus before they'll let such a client back into the system.
I have a client now that was pizzed off about not being able to get any services and when I called around to their worker, case managers, etc., I found that they'd not shown up for meetings, refused to comply with proof information, was generally beligerant when contacted. There isn't much I can do for them either at this point. And indeed, their children are the ones that pay the biggest price.
In my state, they have a program separate from Medicaid, where the state basically provides health coverage for any child where the parents have none. It coveres eyes, teeth, and medical, and prescriptions, and the parent pays very little out of pocket. It's called "chips" here but it may have another name in other states. And signing up for it doesn't automatically put you onto the welfare system. They are separate. I used it a couple of times as I was transitioning between jobs and had no insurance myself. It was a lifesaver!!
It is funded, most likely, primarily by the feds... not medicaid (agreeing with you), but Congress just passed a bill to continue the S-CHIP program. Oldiesman started a thread in the politics forum celebrating the apparent fact that Bush intends to VETO the bill. Of course, I have a problem with that (as I do with most things Bush does).
S-CHIP stands for State-childrens' health insurance program. Last I knew specifically (a couple of years ago), I understood the feds paid 90 percent of the cost and the state had to pick up the other 10 percent.
I don't know if every state took advantage, but it was hard to pass up that kind of a deal from the feds.
Thanks so much, guys. I am sure there is help out there to be had. The FDIL is NOT reluctant to go on Medicaid, she left without completing the paperwork because she had an appointment to get her hair done! She is always meticulously groomed, and not cheaply, either. My grandson has had NO new clothes this summer in spite of the increase in child support she gets. We bought him sandals which he wears every single day.
She may not want social services to know he still sleeps with her or that she has two other people living with her in a 2 bedroom apartment, excluding the occasional "gentleman friend".
I think if she doesn't put him on her available insurance, I am going to call the guardian ad litem, whose sole interest is supposedly grandson's welfare. I can be confident of my son's support. He would love to get custody some day, but that is like pulling hen's teeth.
Your FDIL is what we down here in the South would call trailer trash. You could probably do a whole lot with a good attorney... maybe even get custody for all I know.... but it would cost you lots for the legal help.
You see rampant decay in kids now-a-days only in cases like you've described... kids living on candy bars, sugar juice and of course no dental hygiene. Yes, its child neglect but your chances of using it to force changes by FDIL depend on the legal environment in that county. A good lawyer that practices in that field could tell you. An initial consultation might be the way you want to go as it probably wouldn't cost too much and THEN you'd know where you stood.
Actually, $2000 sounds like a good deal for restoring 10+ teeth including general anesthesia but in ALL states, children covered by Medicaid get FREE dental care with no co-pays. Some states have their own plans but they have to provide free dental care for covered children under the age of 21. The only problem might be in finding a pediatric dentist that accepts Medicaid. The closest one could be 100 miles away but that's not usually the case. Good luck!
Thanks so much, guys. I am sure there is help out there to be had. The FDIL is NOT reluctant to go on Medicaid, she left without completing the paperwork because she had an appointment to get her hair done! She is always meticulously groomed, and not cheaply, either. My grandson has had NO new clothes this summer in spite of the increase in child support she gets. We bought him sandals which he wears every single day.
She may not want social services to know he still sleeps with her or that she has two other people living with her in a 2 bedroom apartment, excluding the occasional "gentleman friend".
I think if she doesn't put him on her available insurance, I am going to call the guardian ad litem, whose sole interest is supposedly grandson's welfare. I can be confident of my son's support. He would love to get custody some day, but that is like pulling hen's teeth.
Rocky I especially appreciate your insight.
WG
That's a VERY good idea. Hopefully, you have a good relationship with the guardian ad litem... in which case you might be able to vent your frustration while letting him/her know you don't want to alienate FDIL.
If your relationship with the G A L is NOT good, it gets more complicated... but if the person is experienced in that role, they should be willing to listen and be understanding of your frustration.
I've never met her, but I know what her function is, to make sure the grandson is properly represented. I would expect her to be fair and honest. I would approach it from the angle that there is this problem and maybe she has some insight or suggestions on where to find assistance. I probably wouldn't tell her about my other concerns, lest I be accused of moral pontificating.
My other resource would be his pediatrician, who is a niece-in-law of mine and a smart cookie.
I did call my son and mention to him my concerns, which are also his. He is going to call her.
My son called back. She was at day care; the grandson had thrown mulch at one of the other parents and is in deep trouble. Another nail in his coffin. I am sure she and her mother will have him drugged within an inch of his life as soon as they find a doctor with less integrity. She told my son she "is going to" get him put on her insurance. she will call him back. I told him what NOT to tell her, namely that I am getting a job to help pay for this dental work, or that I would am extremely angry. I want him to ask her what progress has she made? Has she asked her boss (who runs the ice cream stand downstairs from her apt. and NOT hard to get ahold of. Does she have them and hasn't filled them out? Has she filled them out and is waiting to hear? I doubt she has even asked for them. It would be so much easier to let him get an abcess later than spend ten minutes filling out the f-ing forms now. He's in pain, he's not eating well.
I just don't know what to do. I am so amazed. I worked full time most of the time my son was growing up. I traveled to and from work, came home, cooked home cooked meals, cleaned the house and had time for twig. She works part time, her apartment is messy, and she eats fast food most of the time. And she doesn't have time to see to her son's dental care?
it is funny wg on a personal note you bring this up
i had dinner with my son a couple of weeks ago a rare treat, he is away at college and recently moved out of the dorms into his own home. well i asked him if he has a girl friend and he told me of a nice irish girl in the reserves with a child,
now he has lived on his own for 7 years wg. but my hair went up i looked away from my food into his face and said your are really NOT going to move in with her are you?
im sure she might be alot of fun , but IM fussy and I know my son I adore my son , and he likes and is very capable of haivng women do what ever he wants when he says so(he is very cute and has a good mind) and she has a kid already without a father.
he really assured me once again all that I taught him to know better and that will not happen, and I ended the with "good because i would hate to get a grand child with a "mother" I would have to kill or something".
he agreed .
I do know where your coming from wg it is tough these grands MINE have my heart much worse than my own children did. my daughter is the best mom I ever saw, and his dad gives me plenty of respect as well as her. he is a good dad too, course he is friends with my ex husband who may have given him fair warning on just how to behave.
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Watered Garden
Okay let me try this again.
At my request my former daughter in law and I took my grandson to the pediatric dental clinic. He is 4 years old with 10+ cavities and needs over $2000 worth of fillings (price includes general anesthesia. F-D-I-L says no way she can afford that. She doesn't want the hassle of signing him up for Medicaid and may or may not decide to get him on her insurance for dental. She simply stated "No way am I paying for that!"
The chlid's teeth are painful to him. There are certain foods he doesnt' want to chew.
I am actually going to get a part time job so I can pay for his care in case she simply blows this off. She doesn't seem to much care, except that my bugging her about it is an irritant. My son would love to help but has lots of bills to pay.
My question is: First of all, is it common to just let baby teeth go like this? My parents dragged me to the dentist all the time, but I was an only child and perhaps somewhat cossetted.
Second, if this young woman continues to neglect her son's dental distress, do we have any legal recourse? My understanding of Ohio law is that as long as he has a roof over his head, clothes to wear and food to eat, that is all that matters normally. However, if there is illness involved and she deliberately neglects that, it can be a matter for CPS to investigate. When I worked at the cancer hospital, there was a mom who didn't want her small child treated for cancer as she would have to have him there at 7 am and she liked to sleep until at least 11 am. We called CPS and she changed her mind quickly.
Thanks for any and all suggestions and advice.
WG
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krys
In my view, she is guilty of neglect! Pure and simple. I can understand not having funds for this. But not being willing to sign him up for Medicaid, which would restore his dental health and also keep him on the right path in that regard.
There are some diseases that may show early cavities but it's more likely they are "hard luck cavities". My son had plenty of them..they were caused by a partial malformation of his molar teeth. Was there sufficient dietary calcium and other minerals during pregnancy? how about now?
If he were my grandson, I would not warn her, I'd just call children's services - - she's had all the warnings she needs from you.
In addition it disturbs me greatly that this has happened because I'll bet much of the discussion has taken place within earshot of the child. What must he be thinking? I'm not "worth"----? And when he finally does to to a dentist his experiences are likely to be painful.
In answer to your other question - - it's not common, but some children do develop cavities in these teeth. Some dentists fill everything. Some don't fill small cavities if it's likely the tooth will be lost soon. My son had 1 hard luck cavity at his first dental visit. That was filled then. He was treated with fluoride (in the tray) in the office at his regular visits.
There was a sealant available at that time (and I imagine it still is) but most children don't need it, and it's pretty expensive. I made an appointment to have that applied as well. I say all this just to let you know that there are so many things which can be done to help this youngster's dental health, that if no-or very low cost treatment is not accepted, it is the same thing as neglect and is inexcusable.
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pond
it may be a medical problem.
a birth defect. medicaid would be granted if that is the case. but i will tell you no state cps worker will encourage or help anyone go on welfare roles. it is a conflict of interest if the parents ssys they do not want assistance, so they would have to go to court and prove the child is at risk and take custody of his care. not necessarily living in foster car it could be just his medical care while custodial parent recieves conseling. this is very diffiult to prove, and if they do you also could get tangled in a battle or his care. if the states takes responsibility for his care YOU will have no say so as well, but they may grant some vistitation.
i do not balme her for not wanting to sign up for assistance to let you know my kids went to the dentist twice a year for cleaning even the baby teeth.. what happens to them could effect the adult teeth. the adult teeth are already in his mouth formed since her pregancy and they could be getting damage as well from his baby teeth. i would look into some help for him .
why is he getting so many cavities?
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Bramble
I know it is not uncommon. When I taught preschool I would have parents who were shocked-shocked! --that their 4 year old couldn't run around the preschool all day with a no spill sipper cup full of juice like he did at home.
We had plenty of water to quench thirst, in reach of the children.
Constant sugar baths aren't good for anyone's teeth--plus in a day care situation, those hard plastic sippers could be dangerous as kids jostle aroung--teeth can get knocked out.
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Abigail
Neglecting the baby teeth can have serious, long term negative consequences on the adult teeth - which will be even more expensive to repair. It can also cause other health problems.
Some kids are just naturally more prone to cavities than others. There are preventatives beyond brushing and flossing, including limiting sugar filled food and drinks. Floride treatments and sealants also go a long way.
Every state is different, so while what Pond said may apply to your state, it also may very well not. I would investigate the medicaid possiblity as well as CPS if necessary. If she is neglecting his dental health, what other issues might she be neglecting as well?
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Jim
I don't know anything about dentistry, but that number of cavities and sensitivity just seems wrong.
I admire you for taking a job to pay for this. Nonetheless, you should try to get a commitment from your daughter inlaw to at least match your contribution. I get the feeling that there are habits that need to change, such as diet and brushing, and they're not going to change unless she feels some of the pain of fixing the problem. Remember that the child still has 14 years until he's an adult and that's plenty of time for another couple $2000 dental bills if things don't change.
And BTW, I'm glad you went ahead and posted this.
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Rocky
Lot's of good insight in responses thus far.
The first was when Krys called it child neglect. She is absolutely correct.
I don't know what state Pond is from but in AZ, CPS workers very likely WOULD help get the mother signed up for medicaid.
Abi's correct that neglecting the baby teeth can be very serious.
I volunteer at a children's shelter. I've seen kids there who have suffered this kind of neglect. In AZ, the CPS would most likely try to get the mother (or pretty much force her) to sign up and get the teeth taken care of... or if she wouldn't, then take the kid. But they'd rather not remove the kid from the home if they can get the need taken care of with the child still with the parent.
WG, you are RIGHT ON THE MARK for having this concern.
I'd hope to get SUDO's insight (since he's a dentist)...
And if you can get a part time job to pay for the care, it certainly would behoove the FDIL to take advantage of your help.
Further, there's lot's of examples in the US these days of grandparents having to (or getting to) raise grandchildren instead of the parent(s) for whatever reason.
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Watered Garden
The FDIL comes from one of the most dysfunctional families I have ever seen. I don't want to go into it here. She has a 19-year-old brother who has NEVER been to a dentist. She did drink some milk and take prenatal vitamins when she was pregnant, but she doesn't like much except fast food. She laughs at me because I make home cooked meals all the time. She needed a root canal when she was 20 and has never gotten it.
The dental folks at OSU said his dental disease was caused by poor diet, lots of sugar, and poor hygiene. He is to drink nothing but white milk and tap water. So the next day he has a big bottle of grape juice, a candy bar, some fruit bit (jelly) type things and sweeted applesauce in his lunch. I had picked him up, and I threw it out, and called her - that was all she had and I guess it was inconvenient to run to the grocery.
He has never liked to drink water. We kept him Saturday and Sunday last weekend, and of course I, being a tight-lipped, straight-laced, rule-obeying, tight-a$$ (in her view) gave him white milk and mostly water. He drank the whole glass of water and was praised to the skies. But I majorly doubt he gets it at home.
Y-all, he was on Medicaid last year. She needed to reapply in January of this year but "didn't have the time" to go fill out the damn forms. I suspect last week she didn't finish filling out the forms because she had a hair appointment at the salon where her mom works. Much more important to get your hair dyed some new color when you are bored with being a blonde.
She didn't used to be like this. When he was a baby, she was afraid to leave him with me, because I hadn't handled a baby in many years. She was very solicitious. But she has discovered the party life, and has different men staying over on a short term basis. I guess her priorities have changed.
I am so appreciative of your advice. He does have a guardian ad litem from the days when she was suing for sole custody and never to let my son see his child, which she didn't for over a yaer. I am going to get my son to ask her about the insurance papers she allegedly was filing to put him on her insurance, and if she has not, I think he and I will get in touch with the G.A.L.
I cannot imagine having a child in pain and saying "NO WAY am I paying for that!"
My son has a hearing the end of this month regarding his child support. IF he makes it through this one I am probably not going to be as meek and humble around this young woman. If he doesn't make it through, I will have to be nice as this is the only way I will see my grandson. She has total control. I suspect she has played us for some time. Her sweetness started to melt once I retired and didn't have as much money. She is getting regular child support now and won't spend a dime of it on her son. She is getting over $400 a month more than she was and of course she only works part time.
We have been between a rock and a hard place with this young woman for a while now. Her mom moved in with her and they are both big time partiers. The baby needs to be with his dad IMO. Dad is working, has a lovely fiancee who adores the little guy and vice versa.
Oh and Pond, my husband teaches, and he has seen kids who live with their grandparents sent right back to mom after she gets out of prison for selling drugs. I want my son to have at least joint custody, but I doubt the mom lets it happen without a fight. The child is her trump card to get what she wants. He is eligible for Medicaid, but it is a hassle to fill out the papers, according to her.
WG
Thanks again,
WG
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pond
or she doesnt want to submit information about other houshold membersand their finanacial resource which would be included in the application. you may not really know why.
I can tell you in this county in NY they DO NOT cover teeth. unless it is very serious problem, surgery etc. two counties over they do. it depends on the county budget etc.. polictics. a birth defect determined by the dr. would allow medicaid to pay for him regardless of the incom of the parents.
we have a clinic for reduced charges but the wait is months between appt. and it is students so the detist changes evey year. then you have to start over.
a trump card? for what to get your son involved in another relationship with her that involves more than what they have now?
no authority can force medical care, they would have to take over his gaurdianship , and that here is not done lightly, frankly the state does not have enough workers to make sure a parent does what the state decides is best . NY is liberal in this area . It may or may not be considered an issue.
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GrouchoMarxJr
We have a GreaseSpotter who's a dentist...where's Sudo?
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Watered Garden
The county where she lives is pretty assidulous about taking care of its kids, especially since errors are always brought to glaring light by the press. It is one of the fastest growing counties in Ohio. Also she herself has involved the courts from time to time, since she only works part time and wants more child support and less involvement with anyone else.
She lives in a nice two bedroom apartment. Originally it was her and her sister. She can't afford $600/month rent by herself. The sister moved in with her boyfriend. Her mamma moved in. The child at age 4 sleeps in a king sized bed with her. She met some guy on a phone dating service called Lava Line. He lived in IL, she had him come over to OH and live with her, her mother and my grandson for two weeks. Since the second bedroom belongs to her mother, God knows where the little guy slept while he was there. He used her car while he lived there, and apparently proved to be not so nice and she asked him to leave and he moved on to another state. Then she dated a foreign guy from the Middle East. I don't know that he lived there but he sure seemed to know his way around the apt. Her mom, by the way, doesn't much like me and thinks I am a stick-in-the-mud.
Right now, the sister is taking a hiatus from her stud, so she moved in. They moved the mother in with the FDIL and grandson so sister can have her own room. The $900 crib that makes into a day bed and then a full size bed ithat we gave them when they were married has been taken apart and shoved in the closet. I offered to store it, since he obviously is never going to use it and sleeps with his head on mommie's bosom at age 4, which I have been told by sociial workers is considered incestous whether any overt activity is happening or not. She won't give it up.
This shocks the he11 out of me. I am admittedly old, stodgy, not with-it, and go to church (gasp!) but if I had so much as held hands with some guy in front of MY mom, I would have heard about it. And did. And this chick moves some guy she doesn't even really know in with her and that's fine with her mother. It scares the he11 out of me. Some handsome, sexy stud who was a serial killer or rapist , or God forbid, a pedophile, could move right in with her. I don't think the county would do anything about it, either. As long as my grandson is not beaten within an inch or his life, raped, or worse, she is the mamma and can do as she pleases.
I really don't give a rat's nose if Medicaid would cover his dental work. She CAN get insurance to cover it, but doesn't WANT to pay the money to do it, and considersdit a great inconvenience brought upon her by me, the interfering former mother-in-law. But we have spent a LOT of money taking care of things for our grandchild that she won't or can't.
And if I act on any or at least much of this, I will lose him forever.
WG
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krys
WG....I'd like to see you preseent this in the prayer forum.
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Watered Garden
I will but not right away. I have to go shopping for clothes to wear to job interviews and get my Zyrtec refilled so I don't sneeze in the middle of one!
I am gonig to try to get my son to talk to her tomorrow when he picks up his son for the weekend.
I didn't really want to enter the part time old fart job market just yet, but I feel she leaves me no choice. Even if she does get him dental insurance, there will be a copay and she won't want to be bothered with that.
I am really, really pi$$ed off at this young woman. Pray I don't say anything that will make matters worse.
WG
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pond
You can count me in the prayer to not say anything worse too.
im in the middle of a battle myself. not my kids tho thank God.
as far as her personal life it really isnt any of your business, unless you feel compelled to get authorities involved and take custody of the boy . that probably would make for some hard feelings all around that would not help the kid much.
if i ever get any money i will give it to my grands. no lick with that yet but god is still on the throne.
at this point maybe life freaking insurance.
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Watered Garden
Pond,
I nice thing to do for the grands, which we have done for ours, is a 529 account. I don't know that they are called that in your neck of the woods, but I think every state has one. It is a savings account specifically for college. Anyone can contribute to it once it is properly set up, either as a one time gift or as a payroll deduction. We have been putting in $40/month for 1 1/2 years and it is already up to $3000. It gathers interest. If the child reaches college age and decides not to go, you can cash it in for 10% fee and go on one heckuva vacation.
WG (PS thanks for the prayer)
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TheHighWay
In my state, they have a program separate from Medicaid, where the state basically provides health coverage for any child where the parents have none. It coveres eyes, teeth, and medical, and prescriptions, and the parent pays very little out of pocket. It's called "chips" here but it may have another name in other states. And signing up for it doesn't automatically put you onto the welfare system. They are separate. I used it a couple of times as I was transitioning between jobs and had no insurance myself. It was a lifesaver!!
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Shellon
Yup, all states have programs, one needs to dig and ask around sometimes.
In Michigan, we use MIChild, which is a low cost insurance program just a step up from Medicaid and parents like it better because it still provides the coverage but they don't feel like a 'loser' as they pay 10$ each month.
I use it and it covers everything for my 12 year old except orthodontics; some states cover even that. If my daughter wants glasses frames not on the list, I have to pay the differance, as well as her newly desired contacts, but it's a good program.
Additionally Medicaid programs are good, use them if needed.
WG, your daughter might eventually be denied services and fall off the rolls for 'noncompliance' if she continues to not show up for appointments with her worker, not sending in the paperwork, etc.
Sometimes it can take a year plus before they'll let such a client back into the system.
I have a client now that was pizzed off about not being able to get any services and when I called around to their worker, case managers, etc., I found that they'd not shown up for meetings, refused to comply with proof information, was generally beligerant when contacted. There isn't much I can do for them either at this point. And indeed, their children are the ones that pay the biggest price.
It's sad but so common.
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Rocky
It is funded, most likely, primarily by the feds... not medicaid (agreeing with you), but Congress just passed a bill to continue the S-CHIP program. Oldiesman started a thread in the politics forum celebrating the apparent fact that Bush intends to VETO the bill. Of course, I have a problem with that (as I do with most things Bush does).
S-CHIP stands for State-childrens' health insurance program. Last I knew specifically (a couple of years ago), I understood the feds paid 90 percent of the cost and the state had to pick up the other 10 percent.
I don't know if every state took advantage, but it was hard to pass up that kind of a deal from the feds.
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Watered Garden
Thanks so much, guys. I am sure there is help out there to be had. The FDIL is NOT reluctant to go on Medicaid, she left without completing the paperwork because she had an appointment to get her hair done! She is always meticulously groomed, and not cheaply, either. My grandson has had NO new clothes this summer in spite of the increase in child support she gets. We bought him sandals which he wears every single day.
She may not want social services to know he still sleeps with her or that she has two other people living with her in a 2 bedroom apartment, excluding the occasional "gentleman friend".
I think if she doesn't put him on her available insurance, I am going to call the guardian ad litem, whose sole interest is supposedly grandson's welfare. I can be confident of my son's support. He would love to get custody some day, but that is like pulling hen's teeth.
Rocky I especially appreciate your insight.
WG
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Sudo
WG,
Your FDIL is what we down here in the South would call trailer trash. You could probably do a whole lot with a good attorney... maybe even get custody for all I know.... but it would cost you lots for the legal help.
You see rampant decay in kids now-a-days only in cases like you've described... kids living on candy bars, sugar juice and of course no dental hygiene. Yes, its child neglect but your chances of using it to force changes by FDIL depend on the legal environment in that county. A good lawyer that practices in that field could tell you. An initial consultation might be the way you want to go as it probably wouldn't cost too much and THEN you'd know where you stood.
Actually, $2000 sounds like a good deal for restoring 10+ teeth including general anesthesia but in ALL states, children covered by Medicaid get FREE dental care with no co-pays. Some states have their own plans but they have to provide free dental care for covered children under the age of 21. The only problem might be in finding a pediatric dentist that accepts Medicaid. The closest one could be 100 miles away but that's not usually the case. Good luck!
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Rocky
That's a VERY good idea. Hopefully, you have a good relationship with the guardian ad litem... in which case you might be able to vent your frustration while letting him/her know you don't want to alienate FDIL.
If your relationship with the G A L is NOT good, it gets more complicated... but if the person is experienced in that role, they should be willing to listen and be understanding of your frustration.
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Watered Garden
I've never met her, but I know what her function is, to make sure the grandson is properly represented. I would expect her to be fair and honest. I would approach it from the angle that there is this problem and maybe she has some insight or suggestions on where to find assistance. I probably wouldn't tell her about my other concerns, lest I be accused of moral pontificating.
My other resource would be his pediatrician, who is a niece-in-law of mine and a smart cookie.
I did call my son and mention to him my concerns, which are also his. He is going to call her.
We'll see.
WG
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Watered Garden
My son called back. She was at day care; the grandson had thrown mulch at one of the other parents and is in deep trouble. Another nail in his coffin. I am sure she and her mother will have him drugged within an inch of his life as soon as they find a doctor with less integrity. She told my son she "is going to" get him put on her insurance. she will call him back. I told him what NOT to tell her, namely that I am getting a job to help pay for this dental work, or that I would am extremely angry. I want him to ask her what progress has she made? Has she asked her boss (who runs the ice cream stand downstairs from her apt. and NOT hard to get ahold of. Does she have them and hasn't filled them out? Has she filled them out and is waiting to hear? I doubt she has even asked for them. It would be so much easier to let him get an abcess later than spend ten minutes filling out the f-ing forms now. He's in pain, he's not eating well.
I just don't know what to do. I am so amazed. I worked full time most of the time my son was growing up. I traveled to and from work, came home, cooked home cooked meals, cleaned the house and had time for twig. She works part time, her apartment is messy, and she eats fast food most of the time. And she doesn't have time to see to her son's dental care?
GIVE ME A BREAK!
WG
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pond
it is funny wg on a personal note you bring this up
i had dinner with my son a couple of weeks ago a rare treat, he is away at college and recently moved out of the dorms into his own home. well i asked him if he has a girl friend and he told me of a nice irish girl in the reserves with a child,
now he has lived on his own for 7 years wg. but my hair went up i looked away from my food into his face and said your are really NOT going to move in with her are you?
im sure she might be alot of fun , but IM fussy and I know my son I adore my son , and he likes and is very capable of haivng women do what ever he wants when he says so(he is very cute and has a good mind) and she has a kid already without a father.
he really assured me once again all that I taught him to know better and that will not happen, and I ended the with "good because i would hate to get a grand child with a "mother" I would have to kill or something".
he agreed .
I do know where your coming from wg it is tough these grands MINE have my heart much worse than my own children did. my daughter is the best mom I ever saw, and his dad gives me plenty of respect as well as her. he is a good dad too, course he is friends with my ex husband who may have given him fair warning on just how to behave.
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