A number of years ago an old friend of mine said he thought religion was a crutch. Talk about a cliche. But in one sense it IS a crutch.
Natural man cannot receive the things of the spirit of God, right? Natural man lacks the ability to do that. In the same manner, a person with one leg missing or disabled lacks the ability to walk normally, so that person needs what? A crutch, if they can't get prosthetics. A crutch is, after all, a tool used by people to compensate for their lack of ability to ambulate, whether it's temporary or permanent.
Religion, access to God, is a tool used by those who feel they lack the ability to access God by natural means. So, yes, in that sense, God is a crutch. Perhaps the comparison is borne of cynicism, reducing the relationship with God down to a "relationship" with an inanimate object, at least, for some people. Either way, I use that crutch (God's gift) and I'm proud of it.
i said to him it is better than lying on the floor .
lets assume everyone can walk tho. live and do life . did you ever use the God thing as a crutch to NOT do well, to justify something that would not have gone in that manner had you not had the crutch of saying well God's will is. or it is a sin so I cant etc.
I see where some christians think they have super powers have abilities beyond what non believers have. (the tool you said)
But that only works in a cult where you get to see only what people want you to see and hear about your life .
quote: did you ever use the God thing as a crutch to NOT do well, to justify something that would not have gone in that manner had you not had the crutch of saying well God's will is. or it is a sin so I cant etc.
You don't need God to give up on something. That's not a crutch, that's a rationalization. I'm into real life. I pray real prayers and I get real answers. You?
I didn't persue medical school because I was told it is inferior to The Way Corps. If I went to medical school God would be disappointed with me. I would get to the bema and I would be asked "Why did you become a doctor? I wanted you to do something with your life. Only with Way Corps training can one really help others."
twi had me convinced that I could not make good decisions. only God knows what I should do and the decision come via the chain-of-command of the Way Tree.
really me to i cant make good choices , im a sinner, i do not know the bible verses well enough and then when i learned them with PLENTY of classes , the spin on what they REALLY meant started.
Good God. and i go to a very fined tuned place of nope not that because the word says.. and it must mean ..
it had to be a place where it all revolved around meeting the needs of "God".
kepp it simple turned into do not risk anything stay safe with us.
THEY are the world. devil spirits live there. When my children grew up and began making life choices i looked at it all over again and said crap maybe God has been a crutch all along ya know?
im a believer, i pray i do the program.
what i mean is did we use God as an excuse to not risk to not love to not do well in life?
Im not real good at this but i will try to see what you think.
I raised my children as christians, we did fellowship bible study, prayer and lived in a christian manner.
so ok. they are adults now.
When my son was in his twenties i thought he drank to much booze, i wanted him to go to college be clean cut etc...
He worked a tough job around alot of men and we often disagreed in fact i threw him out of the house over it all.
But we still talked and loved one another dearly, then one day he stood up and said "YOU USE GOD AS A CRUTCH".
like i accussed him of using alcohol to NOT excel .
and it stuck.
have you NOT performed in life in a manner you would like because of your christian values or things learned in a cult?
didnt go to college because you had to go way corps or wow.
had more children because you could teach them the word, or no children so you could stay on staff.
wont work within certain populations because they must have devil spirits.
Really performed a error or hurt somone and say "I prayed about it God forgave me , lets move on".
THIs boy of mine who doesnt believe in the "fairy tale God" i speak of on occasion is the utter love of my life, and has taught me to truly look at how we live life, is entering medical school this fall . (sorry had to gush) .
what do you think ? Have you ever USED God as a crutch or to expedient?
Pond, you and I share something in common -- my son has pretty much given up on believing there is a God. It's a subject we rarely talked about when he was going through the process. I figured the best thing I could do was/is not to be judgmental or critical of him -- and regardless of what conclusions he would ultimately come to would not change the most important thing we shared -- our love for each other. We get along quite well and have a blast in each other's company.
I don't know if any of this really addresses the points you are making -- I just felt like sharing it for what it's worth.
Well i see alot of spirit in my boy. and he is a good boy. as a man he shouldnt tell me all about his life anyways.
thx but no one wants to go to the topic my goodness is it that bad?
geez. (unhappy face)
Don't fret it Pond. Is this . . .
Have you ever USED God as a crutch or to expedient?
. . . . the topic? If so, I think we all (those of us who believe in God) use God as a "crutch." After-all even God, Himself, tells us to.
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Isn't "leaning" on God analogically the same as leaning on a crutch? A crutch being something one relies on for support. Would you walk up on a person, using a crutch, and kick it out from underneath him/her? Why would anyone do that unless they were just a tad bit mean?
The crutch analogy isn't a very positive one. I am surprised those replying are using it.
Isn't the idea of a crutch one of not just leaning on something because you need it but one of rehabilitation? The ideal situation is one of walking on your own is it not?
Besides the phrase of using something as a crutch is not really a literal analogy, but one of using something as an excuse to do normal things or as a psychological or emotional prop...something that is, in a way, holding you back.
I definitely see people, not necessarily on GSC, using religion or God as a crutch.
"Why in the WORLD would you want to waste your precious time getting that ministry unsanctioned master's degree, when you can witness, go to twig, run classes, and clean your 'leader's' toilets? GOD IS NOT GOING TO LIKE IT..."
The crutch analogy isn't a very positive one. I am surprised those replying are using it.
Isn't the idea of a crutch one of not just leaning on something because you need it but one of rehabilitation? The ideal situation is one of walking on your own is it not?
Besides the phrase of using something as a crutch is not really a literal analogy, but one of using something as an excuse to do normal things or as a psychological or emotional prop...something that is, in a way, holding you back.
I definitely see people, not necessarily on GSC, using religion or God as a crutch.
EXACTLY!!
finaly some one gets it!
thank you lindyhopper !
so now that we get it and get thrown down into the doctrine center
anyone do this or been guilty of it?
it is a thinking thing .
not neccesarily a doctrine thing, but i do suppose many could use the bible as a bullet for their case that is another thread.
why was my thread thrown down here where no one wants to read?
anyways thx Larry moore for being so very kind , but no .
I am a christian and i do not try to use God as a crutch like you describe.
like Lindyhopper describes it is a negative thing to me . using God as a comfort is fine with me, but as crutch is like you can not do it it is a negative meaning i would be disabled some how because of God.
for example again
I have to have ten children abortion is wrong and birth control is evil God says so in the bible.
I should take a vow of poverty Jesus never had any money and low paying jobs keep me with the lowly people he hung with.
I definitely see people, not necessarily on GSC, using religion or God as a crutch.
I couldn't help thinking -- Could GSC be a "crutch" in itself for some members?
One of the benefits of religion is social in nature. As a social "animal" it can be said we psychologically need the support and nurture we find in groups. If that need is normal -- why is it un-normal to find it in a religion or a god or a discussion board?
Groups like twi are excellent examples of this. IMO
It may not be like this everywhere anymore but in the late ninties and early 2000s you were incouraged to run nearly everything past the local leadership. Need a new car? Want to go back to school? Want to move to another state? Want to go out of the state for the weekend? Ask leadership.
It was a crutch because many were not able to make simple life decisions without getting an ok or imput from one of their coordinators. Is getting advise about life decisions wrong? Of course not, but you don't need it for everything and you should try and get it from experts or highly experienced people in the field you may be dealing with. Going to Fiji? Ask a travel agent, ask someone who has visited there or someone that has lived there. You don't need a spiritual adviser for EVERYTHING. In fact if you believe the Bible the way some people do, we should be able be self sufficient in many ways (well you and God).
BTW, one of the best things about churches is the social aspect, IMO.
I see religion as a crutch in both a positive and a negative way.
The negative is as Lindyhopper describes-- people not being able to make a decision without their leadership telling them what for. In that way, the crutch is used when the individual should be walking and strengthening themselves--instead they are staying weak.
But on the positive side, we humans have used religion and religious practices to connect with the spiritual. Since we are on the earthy/fleshly plane, we need crutches or tools to glimpse the divine.
it means alot to me somone would write back. yes even the idea's can hold you back from growing as an individual, idea spun from bible verses out of control , framkly not right.
how many times do we stop a relationship or a conversation because we just know that person has a sin in life, and we say well God thinks that is wrong(and it might be wrong) so i wont bother to speak to her/him about it.
or they are catholics and God says Jesus isnt God many examples .
when God may have sent them for another purpose for me to get blessed pr them to get blessed.
the idea is God is USED to stop you from doing the right thing.
But on the positive side, we humans have used religion and religious practices to connect with the spiritual. Since we are on the earthy/fleshly plane, we need crutches or tools to glimpse the divine.
Perhaps one needs such a tool, lest looking directly into the light, one really gets burned..
the bible calls all of sinners, we pick and chose what sin we do!
some sins can give quite an advantage in life! hell yeah.
did you chose to not sin use God or HIS bible study and now claim to be at a disadvantage from those who do not believe as you do?
is it stopping you from getting where you want to be? something you lean on because you have the inability to do it on your own because God says so?
Possibly yes, but I prefer the prosperity that God gives to the riches gained by deceit and trickery. And BTW, I want to read and post on your thread, so I hope you're no longer wounded.
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johniam
A number of years ago an old friend of mine said he thought religion was a crutch. Talk about a cliche. But in one sense it IS a crutch.
Natural man cannot receive the things of the spirit of God, right? Natural man lacks the ability to do that. In the same manner, a person with one leg missing or disabled lacks the ability to walk normally, so that person needs what? A crutch, if they can't get prosthetics. A crutch is, after all, a tool used by people to compensate for their lack of ability to ambulate, whether it's temporary or permanent.
Religion, access to God, is a tool used by those who feel they lack the ability to access God by natural means. So, yes, in that sense, God is a crutch. Perhaps the comparison is borne of cynicism, reducing the relationship with God down to a "relationship" with an inanimate object, at least, for some people. Either way, I use that crutch (God's gift) and I'm proud of it.
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pond
o yes
i told my son the same thing!
i said to him it is better than lying on the floor .
lets assume everyone can walk tho. live and do life . did you ever use the God thing as a crutch to NOT do well, to justify something that would not have gone in that manner had you not had the crutch of saying well God's will is. or it is a sin so I cant etc.
I see where some christians think they have super powers have abilities beyond what non believers have. (the tool you said)
But that only works in a cult where you get to see only what people want you to see and hear about your life .
how about real life ?
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johniam
quote: did you ever use the God thing as a crutch to NOT do well, to justify something that would not have gone in that manner had you not had the crutch of saying well God's will is. or it is a sin so I cant etc.
You don't need God to give up on something. That's not a crutch, that's a rationalization. I'm into real life. I pray real prayers and I get real answers. You?
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pond
ok this takes thinking johniam.
the question is did you ever NOT do something because of your beliefs?
something that others would consider "normal" and growth and positive in life.
like my examples cited.
sure i have
i have compromised alot in life to be a follower of Jesus christ.
i could drink to much have crazy sex without a marriage license i could get further ahead in job and career by lying etc.
these are fun good things JOHNIAM to those who do not use God as a crutch to not do them.
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johniam
Now you lost me.
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pond
how did i lose you?
the bible calls all of sinners, we pick and chose what sin we do!
some sins can give quite an advantage in life! hell yeah.
did you chose to not sin use God or HIS bible study and now claim to be at a disadvantage from those who do not believe as you do?
is it stopping you from getting where you want to be? something you lean on because you have the inability to do it on your own because God says so?
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johniam
Getting colder.
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pond
do not be mean on my thread that no one wants to speak on please im already wounded .
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Bolshevik
I didn't persue medical school because I was told it is inferior to The Way Corps. If I went to medical school God would be disappointed with me. I would get to the bema and I would be asked "Why did you become a doctor? I wanted you to do something with your life. Only with Way Corps training can one really help others."
twi had me convinced that I could not make good decisions. only God knows what I should do and the decision come via the chain-of-command of the Way Tree.
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pond
thank you
really me to i cant make good choices , im a sinner, i do not know the bible verses well enough and then when i learned them with PLENTY of classes , the spin on what they REALLY meant started.
Good God. and i go to a very fined tuned place of nope not that because the word says.. and it must mean ..
it had to be a place where it all revolved around meeting the needs of "God".
kepp it simple turned into do not risk anything stay safe with us.
THEY are the world. devil spirits live there. When my children grew up and began making life choices i looked at it all over again and said crap maybe God has been a crutch all along ya know?
im a believer, i pray i do the program.
what i mean is did we use God as an excuse to not risk to not love to not do well in life?
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Larry N Moore
Pond, you and I share something in common -- my son has pretty much given up on believing there is a God. It's a subject we rarely talked about when he was going through the process. I figured the best thing I could do was/is not to be judgmental or critical of him -- and regardless of what conclusions he would ultimately come to would not change the most important thing we shared -- our love for each other. We get along quite well and have a blast in each other's company.
I don't know if any of this really addresses the points you are making -- I just felt like sharing it for what it's worth.
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pond
Well i see alot of spirit in my boy. and he is a good boy. as a man he shouldnt tell me all about his life anyways.
thx but no one wants to go to the topic my goodness is it that bad?
geez. (unhappy face)
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Larry N Moore
Don't fret it Pond. Is this . . .
. . . . the topic? If so, I think we all (those of us who believe in God) use God as a "crutch." After-all even God, Himself, tells us to.
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Isn't "leaning" on God analogically the same as leaning on a crutch? A crutch being something one relies on for support. Would you walk up on a person, using a crutch, and kick it out from underneath him/her? Why would anyone do that unless they were just a tad bit mean?
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lindyhopper
The crutch analogy isn't a very positive one. I am surprised those replying are using it.
Isn't the idea of a crutch one of not just leaning on something because you need it but one of rehabilitation? The ideal situation is one of walking on your own is it not?
Besides the phrase of using something as a crutch is not really a literal analogy, but one of using something as an excuse to do normal things or as a psychological or emotional prop...something that is, in a way, holding you back.
I definitely see people, not necessarily on GSC, using religion or God as a crutch.
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Ham
Maybe not a crutch..
I think some people treat God like a stick.
"Why in the WORLD would you want to waste your precious time getting that ministry unsanctioned master's degree, when you can witness, go to twig, run classes, and clean your 'leader's' toilets? GOD IS NOT GOING TO LIKE IT..."
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pond
EXACTLY!!
finaly some one gets it!
thank you lindyhopper !
so now that we get it and get thrown down into the doctrine center
anyone do this or been guilty of it?
it is a thinking thing .
not neccesarily a doctrine thing, but i do suppose many could use the bible as a bullet for their case that is another thread.
why was my thread thrown down here where no one wants to read?
anyways thx Larry moore for being so very kind , but no .
I am a christian and i do not try to use God as a crutch like you describe.
like Lindyhopper describes it is a negative thing to me . using God as a comfort is fine with me, but as crutch is like you can not do it it is a negative meaning i would be disabled some how because of God.
for example again
I have to have ten children abortion is wrong and birth control is evil God says so in the bible.
I should take a vow of poverty Jesus never had any money and low paying jobs keep me with the lowly people he hung with.
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Larry N Moore
I couldn't help thinking -- Could GSC be a "crutch" in itself for some members?
One of the benefits of religion is social in nature. As a social "animal" it can be said we psychologically need the support and nurture we find in groups. If that need is normal -- why is it un-normal to find it in a religion or a god or a discussion board?
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pond
yes i think this web site is used as a crutch . anything can. to fat to go on the hike munch munch.
but im talking about God as a crutch not grease spot .
then you fell???? ok we like one another groups are good, social is good.
and so have you ever used or saw God as a crutch ?
love pond
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lindyhopper
Groups like twi are excellent examples of this. IMO
It may not be like this everywhere anymore but in the late ninties and early 2000s you were incouraged to run nearly everything past the local leadership. Need a new car? Want to go back to school? Want to move to another state? Want to go out of the state for the weekend? Ask leadership.
It was a crutch because many were not able to make simple life decisions without getting an ok or imput from one of their coordinators. Is getting advise about life decisions wrong? Of course not, but you don't need it for everything and you should try and get it from experts or highly experienced people in the field you may be dealing with. Going to Fiji? Ask a travel agent, ask someone who has visited there or someone that has lived there. You don't need a spiritual adviser for EVERYTHING. In fact if you believe the Bible the way some people do, we should be able be self sufficient in many ways (well you and God).
BTW, one of the best things about churches is the social aspect, IMO.
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Larry N Moore
Oh. Ok. My bad.
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Bramble
I see religion as a crutch in both a positive and a negative way.
The negative is as Lindyhopper describes-- people not being able to make a decision without their leadership telling them what for. In that way, the crutch is used when the individual should be walking and strengthening themselves--instead they are staying weak.
But on the positive side, we humans have used religion and religious practices to connect with the spiritual. Since we are on the earthy/fleshly plane, we need crutches or tools to glimpse the divine.
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pond
omg
thank you.
it means alot to me somone would write back. yes even the idea's can hold you back from growing as an individual, idea spun from bible verses out of control , framkly not right.
how many times do we stop a relationship or a conversation because we just know that person has a sin in life, and we say well God thinks that is wrong(and it might be wrong) so i wont bother to speak to her/him about it.
or they are catholics and God says Jesus isnt God many examples .
when God may have sent them for another purpose for me to get blessed pr them to get blessed.
the idea is God is USED to stop you from doing the right thing.
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Ham
Perhaps one needs such a tool, lest looking directly into the light, one really gets burned..
it has been known to happen..
:)
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Jeaniam
Possibly yes, but I prefer the prosperity that God gives to the riches gained by deceit and trickery. And BTW, I want to read and post on your thread, so I hope you're no longer wounded.
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