As in all things, it is a balance. After my experience in TWI, I will never again isolate myself to people who only believe what I believe. And honestly, it would get boring that way too.
We all make choices. We can follow a friend down a path of destruction, or we can tell a friend, "I think that path is harmful and I don't wish to travel there. I hope you decide not to travel there too, because I care about you and I don't want to see you hurt." Your sister made a choice, her friend didn't make the choice for her.
That being said, yes our friends can influence us, to be sure. Especially when we are young and still finding our own path, or when we are hurting and lonely and thus likewise vulnerable. It does pay to choose your friends wisely.
If you look at the O.T. you will also find many instances where people of Israel befriended and even married those who were not of Israel and it was good. Moses' wife was not of Israel - that is the first example that comes to mind, but there are many others too. I think they key isn't having the exact same religious beliefs but having similar (not necessarily identical) values.
With all of that being said, yes I have difficulty making friends face to face since TWI. I am not sure how much of that is related to TWI though. I think in my instance it is largely because having children, a husband, and a full-time job, I just don't have the time to go out for coffee or hang out with friends very often.
Church can be a great place to meet people with similar values. Almost any denominational or non-denominational church will probably include a few people you might get to know and become friends with. Organizations where you can volunteer is another good option, if you have that kind of time and are so inclined.
I have also made a few very very wonderful friends right here at greasespot. I don't get to see them face to face as often as I might like to, but it is pretty easy to arrange for some on-line "coffee and gab" visits, when the kids are in bed and we can just hang out.
Funny, but in many verses the Greek word Skotos was used for darkness. It means an active darkness if you read up on it throughout. Darkness is not "still" it has activity.
Anyway, how hard has it been for you to find "healthy" friends?
It has been VERY difficult for me. Perhaps, church does not have all the answers - maybe it is a good place to look. I do not know. I want to talk about how great God is, miracles, answers to prayers and excitement. Recently, one poster and his wife (who are new) reminded me of how great that kind of relationship is - as they are those kind of people.
I miss the singing, the talk and excitement about God, the hope and a variety of things I used to have regularly.
I do not want to fellowship with darkness, nor do I want to become darkness
Funny for me I missed just listening to others talk...about anything. It was like having a family reunion three times a week. It didn't matter if they were talking about God, it was understood that He was just a part of our lives and all of our decisions would be based upon His will. (At least as we knew it)
But real friends in the Way...not too many but that was partially by my choice. I'm a social person but I don't normally have too many close friends anyway. I did kind of isolate myself that last several years, but again choice. Alone is not bad. Lonely is bad. You can have one without the other. Both ways.
There is lots of light out there in the world and even the dimmest candle will dispel darkness. So finding the light is not as hard as it sounds. And this is my personal opinion and I realize that I do not know you but I don't think that you can become darkness sweetie.
Dr Wierwille taught us that we are not to look to our friends as a an object of great desire (I am paraphrasing here).
He in so many words said that when we look to ourselves we become lonely. When we become lonely we seek others to fill the empty void. Then Dr. goes on to say that we are eventually let down by our friends. People are imperfect when sought in this manner of such great expectations.
So Dr. Wierwille's solution was to instead seek God. His reasoning was that we could never possibly be lonely if God was always present and God would never spiritually let us down.
So in this is the secret to personal success in this world and popularity. For we who were in TWI had such a groove going on because we all sought God instead of ourselves or each other (for the most part).
The success of any victorious life is to stay focused upon the goal who is God and all other things we seek will be added unto us.
It is when we pull back from friends and into ourselves that our ability to love God through it all really shows.
it is a fine line between "being a christian " and being an arrogant self righteous really not loving anyone but their own life style alone person.
I have friends who sin, and i sin.
to me God is about love and serving.
one can not do that without a sense of what is wrong and right for them.
to set another up and make such judgements isnt loving them . It isnt Jesus style, the lepers had to live outside of society because they were so hated and he befriended them and only one said thanks. He didnt have regrets he was just blessed one did!
the women who comminted adultery was not a popular gal by any means yet He chose to protect her from the stones in everyones hand.
if a person is in a position in life where what other people do influences them to the point they must also engage to get along they have issues in life.
most want to be around people who think and act like them..not jesus tho the Entire world sins but He never did.
so for me it isnt about what relationship I have with people it is my strength in the LORD that guides my life.
doing common things help what do you like to do? then find someone who also likes that activity and do it together!
but if your always looking at anothers sin or short coming friends would be hard to find or keep.
Jesus had alot of great friends and at the end of the day some did deny them Peter said he didnt even know the guy! but Jesus forgave him and kept on loving him and being thankful for all peter did for God.
I have a dear friend who has talked me through all my teen years of anger and betrayal and empty nest!! she was here for me when i had the surgery well she telephoned. she has a fantastic ministry for single folks and arranging social happenings for everyone she is a real blessing!
but she has one thing about her I do not like and I think is wrong.
she is very very lazy and cheap. strong words. again I do not judge her it is just how she is.
she will have you pay for EVERYTHING use your car and never would EVER give up a dime to help anyone.
if you ride to a common place with her she will ask for ten dollars for gas. she is poor as I am BUT it doesnt go both ways with her. if she has a coupon for buy one get one free she pays only the cost of the sandwhich or whatever you pay the tax the tip everything....... eles. and she plays dumb about it all.
she buys a inspection ticket for her car and drives a dangerous vechicle, because she is cheap. she will use anyone for anything as long as you let her so I know this about her and at the beginning of whatever we are doing I set up what i will and will not do. YES we are friends she has some problems i must deal with and so I do.
now ask her how disgusting and sinful it is that I smoke cigs. she HATES cigs and smoke yet she endures me and my problem . see to me this is what realtionship is all about friendships take work and always compromise and communication.
After leaving TWI, I reconnected with my sister and several cousins who are near my age. That has been wonderful. It is not based on religious beliefs...several are Catholic, some are nothing...doesn't matter. We try to get together for a weekend here and there and it is just fun. Sometimes all their kids come, and some grandkids. We talk, laugh, play cards, watch movies, play ping pong...
I have made a few friendships since leaving TWI, but I have no interest in people who are into a hard drinking or sleeping around type lifestyle. But this is an issue that I work through with my kids, since they are far more susceptible to peer pressure and getting into ugly situations with the wrong kids.
I do have a couple pagan friends but while we met through religious interests, many of are interactions are very ordinary--go for coffee, go shopping girl stuff, talk on the phone.
I have friends in the pet rescue business. And with that as our common ground it has been great moving toward one goal.
So, those friends in that relationship, have only one layer. We love pets. We may find other things in common but our friendship does have that - no matter how one dimensional.
However, I miss the fullness of real Christian friends whose commonality was/is Jesus Christ. It seems those friendships had endless layers as the Lord has endless goodness and things happening. I miss those honest to God -- God relationships.
Yes. alone and lonely are different.
Yes, some dear friends I have made here. But the screen friends, although appreciated, are not enough. I want to pray and sing and share miracle stories in a group. Sometimes, I think there is no such "group". Maybe it is just one heart at a time and perhaps those hearts are miles away from one another.
But I do think "friends" -- the wrong ones, can drag one down, and isolation can drag one down to the end that that person is allowing things in his/her life they would not have allowed otherwise.
Thus, the expression the preacher used, "I had these friends" and his exhortation to be with healthy people.
At work they say "good employees are hard to find" so are "good" friends, IMO
Since TWI, I have befriended some very unhealthy people who were up to no good in my life.
If God tells us not to fellowship with darkness then there must be a place to find "people of light" and fellowship with them. I miss those people.
I reconnected with cousins and that has been great as well. But we connect due to blood. Some are also into God stuff and that makes our connection better as there are more layers to it.
I just wish I could go to a place like twig in the 70's where in the twigs, of which I was a part, we all had a "family" feel and were always excited and talking about the cool stuff God did for us that week. Maybe those were a special gift from God to survive what he knew was ahead.... The weirdness of TWI and the dismantling of what used to be my life.
I am reading Smith Wigglesworth and boy his life was what I saw in the early years.... It is exciting. People getting healed, people standing in prayer with others, singing....
Eyes
I know what you mean. We did not always have to be discussing God, there was a connection...
sonds like your looking for being in a group like twi but not like twi
there are some out there today most churches today seem to have people get together in small groups to study the bible together ask your preacher about this maybe together you two can begin one
or maybe your preacher knows of another church that has one
then there are christian women and men groups who get together to tell their stories of how they got in the word of God
I went to a men's group one time and loved it
we met for a meal the place would give us a discount but some times we just visit nuring home and others we just talk at the table alot of tables were put together
some groups ask for money but the cost is low and just for paying for new people first meal and putting up signs about God's love
my group was "Full Gospel bussiesmen fellowship International" I think but the vice Pres*. was a Baptise that did not speak in tongues but he had gifts of the spirit that I saw he all ways knew what to say
they tell us to give at our church first and take care of our family needs before we give there
people were there of all ages
I do not know if this will help
about your sister she must be thinking of you as a friend or she would of hid all that from you because we all hid things from others but I do not know and I leave her in your loving hands but I will pray
this Gress Spot is the closes thing to fellowship I have out side one on one
I guess I see my Way friendships as being somewhat one dimensional. As long as we were in TWI and like minded, we were friends. As soon as something in doctrinal belief or ministry standing changed, so did the friendships. People moved in and out of life pretty fast--from instant intimacy and trust( sometimes misplaced trust) to copped out grads or possessed cop outs. None of the people I counted as friends, and good friends, stayed life long friends, though I still have contact with a few.
I don't see those friendships as 'family' because I don't think good families dump those that think differently.
I have come to the conclusion that most of those TWI friendships were 'friends of the road'--people I met through the circumstances of my TWI lifestyle, and our friendship was built artificially, based on TWI activities and goals. The friends that I made after I had kids were deeper, but I think that is because what we were doing was truly imporatnt--raising children. But those friendship ended also when TWI standing changed, so their basis was actually TWI.
I still have one friend in TWI, she refused to mark and avoid us, though I'm sure she doesn't advertise that in TWI. Every conversation eventually winds back to us coming back to the ministry.
Friendships I've made since then move much slower than the friendships I made in adolescence and TWI young adultyears. They are also much less dramatic. For one thing, I don't see these new friends everyday, or live with them, and each of us has important people(family) and events that do not involve each other.
I have reconnected with old highschool and college friends in recent years. That's been fun and positive, though they are not intimate friendships.
I have friends in the pet rescue business. And with that as our common ground it has been great moving toward one goal.
I met an exwayer that found he fit very very well in with a couple of local civic organizations. But he always second guessed his motives, how much "real" good it was doing, the profit.. I think he still held some of loy's dislike of those kinds of places.
Is it the right thing to do? Is it less than spiritual, or godly?
One of the very few times I would actually offer advice..
Don't think what you are passionate about, what gives common ground, or what brings joy, or light,
to not be spriritual or godly.
I've seen others find their calling, and go back to "just" teaching the bible.. Very sad..
Recommended Posts
Dot Matrix
I read this on Fellowship in church -- Kind of what I found:
Fellowship in a Denomination?
Attendance in a denomination (a so called Church) does not make you a Christian,
as folk who attend such places fall into a number of categories,
some may be Christians, but many may not be Christians.
Joyce Meyer always says - if I sit in a garage all week it doesn't make me a car!!!
The folk in the congregation may look like this:
* Pew sitter who truly believes and has received The Christ, or received by The Christ,
* Pew sitter who is comfortable in attending, but does not know The Christ,
* Pew sitter who is truly seeking,
and:
* Preacher who knows The Christ,
* Preacher who knows The Christ and actually preaches the true Gospel,,
* Preacher who knows not The Christ and may simply be a paid worker,
and:
* Elder who knows The Christ,
* Elder who knows not The Christ.
And many others.
So please, do not be intimidated if you wish to attend a denomination to take a look,
or to seek true Christian fellowship,
just remember that it is more than likely full of a mix of folk like the above.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cman
I had friends in the way, i thought,
when i got out i found they were not.
I had three friends who had been killed before the way.
I joined the way and left the rest behind.
After 20 years I don't know where they are,
or who they are and they don't know me.
My Mom went back to church and made some friends quickly.
How odd, I thought, that it could happen that easily.
She doesn't even believe the same things they do.
But has pushed through that separation into friendship.
A lesson that I and we need to learn, everyone is different and the same.
The vice clamped on my head has loosened and fallen off.
I can't live alone, though I've done it now even raising a family.
My wife and kids are the closest friends I have.
I suppose I'm lucky, some don't have that.
Then there's greasespot, and the friends I made here.
Friends I've yet to meet face to face.
I do not Believe you Dot, that you would become darkness.
Fellowshipping with darkness would actively cut off light.
I don't see this happening with you at all.
This thread is proof of that.
Peace to you.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Abigail
As in all things, it is a balance. After my experience in TWI, I will never again isolate myself to people who only believe what I believe. And honestly, it would get boring that way too.
We all make choices. We can follow a friend down a path of destruction, or we can tell a friend, "I think that path is harmful and I don't wish to travel there. I hope you decide not to travel there too, because I care about you and I don't want to see you hurt." Your sister made a choice, her friend didn't make the choice for her.
That being said, yes our friends can influence us, to be sure. Especially when we are young and still finding our own path, or when we are hurting and lonely and thus likewise vulnerable. It does pay to choose your friends wisely.
If you look at the O.T. you will also find many instances where people of Israel befriended and even married those who were not of Israel and it was good. Moses' wife was not of Israel - that is the first example that comes to mind, but there are many others too. I think they key isn't having the exact same religious beliefs but having similar (not necessarily identical) values.
With all of that being said, yes I have difficulty making friends face to face since TWI. I am not sure how much of that is related to TWI though. I think in my instance it is largely because having children, a husband, and a full-time job, I just don't have the time to go out for coffee or hang out with friends very often.
Church can be a great place to meet people with similar values. Almost any denominational or non-denominational church will probably include a few people you might get to know and become friends with. Organizations where you can volunteer is another good option, if you have that kind of time and are so inclined.
I have also made a few very very wonderful friends right here at greasespot. I don't get to see them face to face as often as I might like to, but it is pretty easy to arrange for some on-line "coffee and gab" visits, when the kids are in bed and we can just hang out.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Eyesopen
Funny for me I missed just listening to others talk...about anything. It was like having a family reunion three times a week. It didn't matter if they were talking about God, it was understood that He was just a part of our lives and all of our decisions would be based upon His will. (At least as we knew it)
But real friends in the Way...not too many but that was partially by my choice. I'm a social person but I don't normally have too many close friends anyway. I did kind of isolate myself that last several years, but again choice. Alone is not bad. Lonely is bad. You can have one without the other. Both ways.
There is lots of light out there in the world and even the dimmest candle will dispel darkness. So finding the light is not as hard as it sounds. And this is my personal opinion and I realize that I do not know you but I don't think that you can become darkness sweetie.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
DrWearWord
If I recall correctly,
Dr Wierwille taught us that we are not to look to our friends as a an object of great desire (I am paraphrasing here).
He in so many words said that when we look to ourselves we become lonely. When we become lonely we seek others to fill the empty void. Then Dr. goes on to say that we are eventually let down by our friends. People are imperfect when sought in this manner of such great expectations.
So Dr. Wierwille's solution was to instead seek God. His reasoning was that we could never possibly be lonely if God was always present and God would never spiritually let us down.
So in this is the secret to personal success in this world and popularity. For we who were in TWI had such a groove going on because we all sought God instead of ourselves or each other (for the most part).
The success of any victorious life is to stay focused upon the goal who is God and all other things we seek will be added unto us.
It is when we pull back from friends and into ourselves that our ability to love God through it all really shows.
Edited by DrWearWordLink to comment
Share on other sites
pond
Jesus was never afraid of sin.
we live in this world for a reason.
it is a fine line between "being a christian " and being an arrogant self righteous really not loving anyone but their own life style alone person.
I have friends who sin, and i sin.
to me God is about love and serving.
one can not do that without a sense of what is wrong and right for them.
to set another up and make such judgements isnt loving them . It isnt Jesus style, the lepers had to live outside of society because they were so hated and he befriended them and only one said thanks. He didnt have regrets he was just blessed one did!
the women who comminted adultery was not a popular gal by any means yet He chose to protect her from the stones in everyones hand.
if a person is in a position in life where what other people do influences them to the point they must also engage to get along they have issues in life.
most want to be around people who think and act like them..not jesus tho the Entire world sins but He never did.
so for me it isnt about what relationship I have with people it is my strength in the LORD that guides my life.
doing common things help what do you like to do? then find someone who also likes that activity and do it together!
but if your always looking at anothers sin or short coming friends would be hard to find or keep.
Jesus had alot of great friends and at the end of the day some did deny them Peter said he didnt even know the guy! but Jesus forgave him and kept on loving him and being thankful for all peter did for God.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pond
I will give you an example in my life.
I have a dear friend who has talked me through all my teen years of anger and betrayal and empty nest!! she was here for me when i had the surgery well she telephoned. she has a fantastic ministry for single folks and arranging social happenings for everyone she is a real blessing!
but she has one thing about her I do not like and I think is wrong.
she is very very lazy and cheap. strong words. again I do not judge her it is just how she is.
she will have you pay for EVERYTHING use your car and never would EVER give up a dime to help anyone.
if you ride to a common place with her she will ask for ten dollars for gas. she is poor as I am BUT it doesnt go both ways with her. if she has a coupon for buy one get one free she pays only the cost of the sandwhich or whatever you pay the tax the tip everything....... eles. and she plays dumb about it all.
she buys a inspection ticket for her car and drives a dangerous vechicle, because she is cheap. she will use anyone for anything as long as you let her so I know this about her and at the beginning of whatever we are doing I set up what i will and will not do. YES we are friends she has some problems i must deal with and so I do.
now ask her how disgusting and sinful it is that I smoke cigs. she HATES cigs and smoke yet she endures me and my problem . see to me this is what realtionship is all about friendships take work and always compromise and communication.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bramble
After leaving TWI, I reconnected with my sister and several cousins who are near my age. That has been wonderful. It is not based on religious beliefs...several are Catholic, some are nothing...doesn't matter. We try to get together for a weekend here and there and it is just fun. Sometimes all their kids come, and some grandkids. We talk, laugh, play cards, watch movies, play ping pong...
I have made a few friendships since leaving TWI, but I have no interest in people who are into a hard drinking or sleeping around type lifestyle. But this is an issue that I work through with my kids, since they are far more susceptible to peer pressure and getting into ugly situations with the wrong kids.
I do have a couple pagan friends but while we met through religious interests, many of are interactions are very ordinary--go for coffee, go shopping girl stuff, talk on the phone.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
I have friends in the pet rescue business. And with that as our common ground it has been great moving toward one goal.
So, those friends in that relationship, have only one layer. We love pets. We may find other things in common but our friendship does have that - no matter how one dimensional.
However, I miss the fullness of real Christian friends whose commonality was/is Jesus Christ. It seems those friendships had endless layers as the Lord has endless goodness and things happening. I miss those honest to God -- God relationships.
Yes. alone and lonely are different.
Yes, some dear friends I have made here. But the screen friends, although appreciated, are not enough. I want to pray and sing and share miracle stories in a group. Sometimes, I think there is no such "group". Maybe it is just one heart at a time and perhaps those hearts are miles away from one another.
But I do think "friends" -- the wrong ones, can drag one down, and isolation can drag one down to the end that that person is allowing things in his/her life they would not have allowed otherwise.
Thus, the expression the preacher used, "I had these friends" and his exhortation to be with healthy people.
At work they say "good employees are hard to find" so are "good" friends, IMO
Since TWI, I have befriended some very unhealthy people who were up to no good in my life.
If God tells us not to fellowship with darkness then there must be a place to find "people of light" and fellowship with them. I miss those people.
Edited by Dot MatrixLink to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
Bramble
I reconnected with cousins and that has been great as well. But we connect due to blood. Some are also into God stuff and that makes our connection better as there are more layers to it.
I just wish I could go to a place like twig in the 70's where in the twigs, of which I was a part, we all had a "family" feel and were always excited and talking about the cool stuff God did for us that week. Maybe those were a special gift from God to survive what he knew was ahead.... The weirdness of TWI and the dismantling of what used to be my life.
I am reading Smith Wigglesworth and boy his life was what I saw in the early years.... It is exciting. People getting healed, people standing in prayer with others, singing....
Eyes
I know what you mean. We did not always have to be discussing God, there was a connection...
Thanks to everyone, all great posts!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
year2027
God first
Beloved Dot Matrix
God loves you my dear friend
sonds like your looking for being in a group like twi but not like twi
there are some out there today most churches today seem to have people get together in small groups to study the bible together ask your preacher about this maybe together you two can begin one
or maybe your preacher knows of another church that has one
then there are christian women and men groups who get together to tell their stories of how they got in the word of God
I went to a men's group one time and loved it
we met for a meal the place would give us a discount but some times we just visit nuring home and others we just talk at the table alot of tables were put together
some groups ask for money but the cost is low and just for paying for new people first meal and putting up signs about God's love
my group was "Full Gospel bussiesmen fellowship International" I think but the vice Pres*. was a Baptise that did not speak in tongues but he had gifts of the spirit that I saw he all ways knew what to say
they tell us to give at our church first and take care of our family needs before we give there
people were there of all ages
I do not know if this will help
about your sister she must be thinking of you as a friend or she would of hid all that from you because we all hid things from others but I do not know and I leave her in your loving hands but I will pray
this Gress Spot is the closes thing to fellowship I have out side one on one
groups are good my friends and we are a group
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bramble
I guess I see my Way friendships as being somewhat one dimensional. As long as we were in TWI and like minded, we were friends. As soon as something in doctrinal belief or ministry standing changed, so did the friendships. People moved in and out of life pretty fast--from instant intimacy and trust( sometimes misplaced trust) to copped out grads or possessed cop outs. None of the people I counted as friends, and good friends, stayed life long friends, though I still have contact with a few.
I don't see those friendships as 'family' because I don't think good families dump those that think differently.
I have come to the conclusion that most of those TWI friendships were 'friends of the road'--people I met through the circumstances of my TWI lifestyle, and our friendship was built artificially, based on TWI activities and goals. The friends that I made after I had kids were deeper, but I think that is because what we were doing was truly imporatnt--raising children. But those friendship ended also when TWI standing changed, so their basis was actually TWI.
I still have one friend in TWI, she refused to mark and avoid us, though I'm sure she doesn't advertise that in TWI. Every conversation eventually winds back to us coming back to the ministry.
Friendships I've made since then move much slower than the friendships I made in adolescence and TWI young adultyears. They are also much less dramatic. For one thing, I don't see these new friends everyday, or live with them, and each of us has important people(family) and events that do not involve each other.
I have reconnected with old highschool and college friends in recent years. That's been fun and positive, though they are not intimate friendships.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
I am sorry your TWI friendships were one dimentional. Some of mine turned out to be -- but the deep ones were multi -layered.
To be marked and avoided is a horrible thing to deal with, that would rip any trust from under me as far as allowing anyone in my life - I think
I am just unwilling to loose things like ethics to have freinds - like my sister did in my example. Sounds like you have found some nice folks.
I reconnected with some old high school friends as well. It has been fun.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
I met an exwayer that found he fit very very well in with a couple of local civic organizations. But he always second guessed his motives, how much "real" good it was doing, the profit.. I think he still held some of loy's dislike of those kinds of places.
Is it the right thing to do? Is it less than spiritual, or godly?
One of the very few times I would actually offer advice..
Don't think what you are passionate about, what gives common ground, or what brings joy, or light,
to not be spriritual or godly.
I've seen others find their calling, and go back to "just" teaching the bible.. Very sad..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.