IIRC, PW left when he saw which way the wind was blowing. (He didn't elaborate very much when he posted here.)
Correction: Wolfie didn't leave cg around 1987. He was on-grounds at Gartmore House in 1989, and was working translation
with at least one Advanced class. He was also the assistant coordinator of that class. Say what you will, he was dedicated-
while the Berlin Wall was falling, he was running a class outside of Germany.
Whether that dedication was properly placed is a seperate discussion.
Thanks WW
Yeah.....even W@de saw things as early as 1968 or so...and split out. And, his ministry and work continues to this day.......loving the Lord and teaching the brethren.
Regarding Wolfgang......thanks for the correction. Maybe, it was the early 90s....but I distinctly remember hearing some europeans that he'd put more distance between his German work and Gartmore. Whatever...it's just another side issue among so many.
Skyrider, I never cared about pyramids and organization diagrams or who's up, who's down, who's in or who's out.
I don't care who the country coordinators are, why they left or any of that. I don't care who can drop the most names, who worked at HQ or who has an autographed picture of one of the bigshots.
All I care about is getting the Word.
All that other stuff just gets in the way and doesn't bless me.
Skyrider, I never cared about pyramids and organization diagrams or who's up, who's down, who's in or who's out.
I don't care who the country coordinators are, why they left or any of that. I don't care who can drop the most names, who worked at HQ or who has an autographed picture of one of the bigshots.
All I care about is getting the Word.
All that other stuff just gets in the way and doesn't bless me.
Deciderator.....I hear where you are coming from. I really do.
But.....one doesn't journey very far into God's Word without SEEING GOD'S DESIGN for proper oversight and organization amongst His people. It's everywhere.....Old Testament and New.
Exodus 18:19 Hearken now unto my voice, I will give theee counsel and God shall be with thee...
Exodus 18:21 Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens.
They need to reverence God and be men of truth......not micro-managers and legalists and busybodies and slime balls.
Well I've certainly run into my fair share of dishonesty here.
I swear, when I posted in the PFAL thread I never seened so much lying since I got stuck on a plane full of Bush impersonators!
I get your point about an organization and we all know leaders must be of good character.
What we also need is justice when determining when someone has erred.
Do you remember the McMartin Pre-School case?
How about the Dyuke rape case?
For me I have seen too much tearing peopole down and it looks to me as if thosde who are so caught up in what has taken place with TWI that they have little time and effort to give to truly bless people. They go on rants that leave them so sour that it carries over into other things.
I dealt with a lot of this stuff back in the 1900s!
I have no need to go over it again and again for decades, which appears to be the career path that some here are on.
There an awfull lot of really good people here that you accuse of being liars. It is pretty comical that you yourself `cid are so damnably guilty of what you so pompously and self rightiously point your finger at others for..decry in others....what a joke.
Well I've certainly run into my fair share of dishonesty here.
I swear, when I posted in the PFAL thread I never seened so much lying since I got stuck on a plane full of Bush impersonators!
I get your point about an organization and we all know leaders must be of good character.
What we also need is justice when determining when someone has erred.
Do you remember the McMartin Pre-School case?
How about the Dyuke rape case?
For me I have seen too much tearing peopole down and it looks to me as if those who are so caught up in what has taken place with TWI that they have little time and effort to give to truly bless people. They go on rants that leave them so sour that it carries over into other things.
I dealt with a lot of this stuff back in the 1900s!
I have no need to go over it again and again for decades, which appears to be the career path that some here are on.
Deciderator.......I just got back from a few hours of work and thought I'd comment on your quantum leaps of illogic and misappropriate comparisons.
1) On one hand........you give high salutes to vpw and his pfal class; yet, on the other hand.....you sound like you cannot connect the dots that wierwille founded and endorsed the corps leadership program.
2) You "diss" leadership......but the Scriptures document it from Genesis and onward.
3) You fail to see that corps leaders were FOLLOWING THEIR LEADER............vpw.
4) To you, this information is "sour grapes".....to others, it's a nice glass of wine. :)
5) You keep repeating that "you only want the word".......yet, holy men (leaders) of God spake as they were moved by the holy spirit. How would you even have "the word" without leaders?
6) You seem to begrudge leadership.....but in turn, you want to move the word. Doesn't that somehow imply that you'll be leading others into the new birth and gently leading them forward?
7) You talk about dishonesty............and compartmentalize your twi experiences. I choose to discuss the good, the bad and the ugly. Having spent 24 years in twi.......I've got plenty more to say.
8) You may not want to hear this stuff............others do.
9) You bring up the Duke Lacrosse incident with the stripper's testimony.... Wow, that's a stretch to try and bring in that comparison with some of us who've spent thousands of hours laboring to hold forth the gospel.
Well I've certainly run into my fair share of dishonesty here.
I swear, when I posted in the PFAL thread I never seened so much lying since I got stuck on a plane full of Bush impersonators!
Ok, what are all these supposed lies you're claiming to have seen?
Supposedly, there's a lot of it.
Ever consider that some things are A) differences of opinion
or B) things you don't know and actually uncomfortable truths?
Maybe you're attributing malice AND lies where none exist.
Then again, since you didn't get specific, it's not like we can address them- you made a vague claim.
Can you get specific about some of these supposed "lying"?
I get your point about an organizationand we all know leaders must be of good character.
What we also need is justice when determining when someone has erred.
Do you remember the McMartin Pre-School case?
How about the Dyuke rape case?
So, are you claiming that vpw didn't commit the crimes he's reported to have committed?
The examples you cite suggest that- is that what you MEANT to say?
If not, you used bad examples.
If so, why not just say so outright rather than insinuate and imply what you mean?
For me I have seen too much tearing peopole down and it looks to me as if thosde who are so caught up in what has taken place with TWI that they have little time and effort to give to truly bless people. They go on rants that leave them so sour that it carries over into other things.
I dealt with a lot of this stuff back in the 1900s!
I have no need to go over it again and again for decades, which appears to be the career path that some here are on.
You know, when people aren't trying to accuse the victims of lying or wanting to be raped,
we really don't discuss vpw's rapes. It's only when people keep trying to whitewash vpw's evil that these discussions
take off.
Further, you really don't know what we do when we are not logged in here.
How do YOU know whose lives we make a difference in when we're logged off?
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skyrider
Thanks WW
Yeah.....even W@de saw things as early as 1968 or so...and split out. And, his ministry and work continues to this day.......loving the Lord and teaching the brethren.
Regarding Wolfgang......thanks for the correction. Maybe, it was the early 90s....but I distinctly remember hearing some europeans that he'd put more distance between his German work and Gartmore. Whatever...it's just another side issue among so many.
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Deciderator
Skyrider, I never cared about pyramids and organization diagrams or who's up, who's down, who's in or who's out.
I don't care who the country coordinators are, why they left or any of that. I don't care who can drop the most names, who worked at HQ or who has an autographed picture of one of the bigshots.
All I care about is getting the Word.
All that other stuff just gets in the way and doesn't bless me.
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skyrider
Deciderator.....I hear where you are coming from. I really do.
But.....one doesn't journey very far into God's Word without SEEING GOD'S DESIGN for proper oversight and organization amongst His people. It's everywhere.....Old Testament and New.
Exodus 18:19 Hearken now unto my voice, I will give theee counsel and God shall be with thee...
Exodus 18:21 Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens.
They need to reverence God and be men of truth......not micro-managers and legalists and busybodies and slime balls.
:)
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rascal
Just because all one cares about is the word doesn`t mean that everything else isn`t important.
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Deciderator
Well I've certainly run into my fair share of dishonesty here.
I swear, when I posted in the PFAL thread I never seened so much lying since I got stuck on a plane full of Bush impersonators!
I get your point about an organization and we all know leaders must be of good character.
What we also need is justice when determining when someone has erred.
Do you remember the McMartin Pre-School case?
How about the Dyuke rape case?
For me I have seen too much tearing peopole down and it looks to me as if thosde who are so caught up in what has taken place with TWI that they have little time and effort to give to truly bless people. They go on rants that leave them so sour that it carries over into other things.
I dealt with a lot of this stuff back in the 1900s!
I have no need to go over it again and again for decades, which appears to be the career path that some here are on.
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rascal
There an awfull lot of really good people here that you accuse of being liars. It is pretty comical that you yourself `cid are so damnably guilty of what you so pompously and self rightiously point your finger at others for..decry in others....what a joke.
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Deciderator
AH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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skyrider
Deciderator.......I just got back from a few hours of work and thought I'd comment on your quantum leaps of illogic and misappropriate comparisons.
1) On one hand........you give high salutes to vpw and his pfal class; yet, on the other hand.....you sound like you cannot connect the dots that wierwille founded and endorsed the corps leadership program.
2) You "diss" leadership......but the Scriptures document it from Genesis and onward.
3) You fail to see that corps leaders were FOLLOWING THEIR LEADER............vpw.
4) To you, this information is "sour grapes".....to others, it's a nice glass of wine. :)
5) You keep repeating that "you only want the word".......yet, holy men (leaders) of God spake as they were moved by the holy spirit. How would you even have "the word" without leaders?
6) You seem to begrudge leadership.....but in turn, you want to move the word. Doesn't that somehow imply that you'll be leading others into the new birth and gently leading them forward?
7) You talk about dishonesty............and compartmentalize your twi experiences. I choose to discuss the good, the bad and the ugly. Having spent 24 years in twi.......I've got plenty more to say.
8) You may not want to hear this stuff............others do.
9) You bring up the Duke Lacrosse incident with the stripper's testimony.... Wow, that's a stretch to try and bring in that comparison with some of us who've spent thousands of hours laboring to hold forth the gospel.
But hey.........that's just how I roll.
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WordWolf
Ok, what are all these supposed lies you're claiming to have seen?
Supposedly, there's a lot of it.
Ever consider that some things are A) differences of opinion
or B) things you don't know and actually uncomfortable truths?
Maybe you're attributing malice AND lies where none exist.
Then again, since you didn't get specific, it's not like we can address them- you made a vague claim.
Can you get specific about some of these supposed "lying"?
So, are you claiming that vpw didn't commit the crimes he's reported to have committed?
The examples you cite suggest that- is that what you MEANT to say?
If not, you used bad examples.
If so, why not just say so outright rather than insinuate and imply what you mean?
You know, when people aren't trying to accuse the victims of lying or wanting to be raped,
we really don't discuss vpw's rapes. It's only when people keep trying to whitewash vpw's evil that these discussions
take off.
Further, you really don't know what we do when we are not logged in here.
How do YOU know whose lives we make a difference in when we're logged off?
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