I also believed the part in PFAL about "fear motivation" and didn't allow anyone to control me through fear, more or less.—Oldies
I understand. I had lots of fear about leaving, I just wasn’t recognizing it. Leaving was unthinkable. I never understood or recognized the control by fear until at least a year after I left. In any case, you did use your backbone, Oldies. Maybe it wasn’t some big process for you.
I know exactly what Eyes Open is talking about. In retrospect I looked back and considered myself a way weenie. Then one day, I couldn't stand the abuse anymore, and it kind of exploded with a vengeance. I didn't hurt anyone. Just stood up to the "bullies" all at once and perhaps stunned a lot of people. I kind of regret the forceful nature I used on one of them. But I don't know if I could help it or not.
As soon as I left, my life took off like a rocket.
My friend that is the funniest description I have heard in a long time! I nearly spit my tea on my brand new keyboard!
I agree with Exie, You did fine.
This thread makes me think of the law in physics that states "For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction." Throughout our lives including the part that involved twi we are continually "reacting" to something. Be it a simple "jostle" while getting on the subway or a bump in the road that screws up your front end alignment. We each react differently to any situation. Even if the situation were exactly the same for each of us none of our reactions would be identical. But none of us experienced "exactly" the same thing so our reactions were that much more diverse. In addition, none of us percieve the action done to us (or around us) in the same manner. Hence our "reaction" of said action will be affected by our perception. For example if a person were to be accidently bumped while walking down the street by another person they might take personal affront to the accident and start yelling at the offender, while another person may simply apologize for the bump as if it were their fault. We might in turn say one person is wrong and the other is overreacting, or we might say something else. This brings us to Einstein's theory of relativity. What one person perceives as the truth another will not see it that way because of their individual perspectives and perceptions of reality.
The point is each of us were given situations in twi that we reacted to. The ultimate outcome of all of those actions/reactions is the individual people that we are today and our individual perception of twi. Oldies sees twi in a good light, Exie does not. They were each presented with seperate sets of actions for which they seperately reacted and then perceived the outcomes differently. Is one right and one wrong? Some say yes some say no. The truth is that neither is right and neither is wrong. And both are right and both are wrong. Depending on an individuals perception of reality. This of course in no way diminishes or minimizes the horrid, evil things that were inflicted on so many of which we know Exie was one. It only identifies that she reacted to her given situation in her own unique way, because she is an individual. The action produced an opposite and equal reaction. Her reaction was equal to the action done.
Today we are all presented with more actions every day. And we react to them based on our perception. When we change our perception by changing the knowledge from which we base our perceptions we can change the manner in which we react to a given situation. This is why some people are "growing or rediscovering" a backbone. They are learning as some of you have mentioned that they are worth something, that they are important and still children of God and all sorts of other true and uplifting things. This gives them a new perspective on themselves and life in general so they now are not even swayed by something that once would have knocked them on their foot.
Ya'll have pointed it out several times: Self love and self worth are a huge thing! And are absolutely necessary to have a healthy backbone.
P.S. Exie dear I hope that you don't mind me using you as an example in this manner. If I have stepped out of line please let me know and I will delete the post.
Oldiesman the same applies to you, please let me know if you feel that I have stepped out of line.
I hope that I didn't confuse anyone here. This darn couch has gone crazy!
Do you remember the name of that movie with Michael Douglas where he finally has it and goes nuts...? I thought of that movie when you were describing reactions. - Granted, that was a real severe and real delayed reaction but it still describes what can happen.
Do you remember the name of that movie with Michael Douglas where he finally has it and goes nuts...? I thought of that movie when you were describing reactions. - Granted, that was a real severe and real delayed reaction but it still describes what can happen.
"Falling Down"- Great movie! And yes it describes this type of thing exactly and as you say a bit on the extreme side.
But don't be offended my little chameleon, just melt back into the walls after you make sure the kool-aid and cookies are on the table.
Lol. The next time I bump into someone I will declare them to be a relative....
Wow, like I didn't get physical. Just well, lost my temper. Hope no one gets really violent if one of those idiots does what they were doing to the rest of us.
Let's just call them an idiot and go home.
Or as Patricia Heaton would say to Ray Romano:
"I'm tired. Could you just call yourself an idiot and let it go at that?"
Wow, like I didn't get physical. Just well, lost my temper. Hope no one gets really violent if one of those idiots does what they were doing to the rest of us.
Let's just call them an idiot and go home.
Or as Patricia Heaton would say to Ray Romano:
"I'm tired. Could you just call yourself an idiot and let it go at that?"
I dont know why not...now that we dont get reproved for jokingly calling ourselves a name.
Some synonyms for “backbone” according to the thesaurus in Word: moral fiber, strength of character, stamina, fortitude, courage, guts, grit, determination, resilience, and self-discipline.
Guts? Cool, I can *prove* I have guts, but will behave myself for a change and not post the URL to the picture I had the surgeon take of the foot section of my small bowel he removed that the Crohn's Disease had destroyed.
Sorry, it's late and y'all know my humor is warped anyway and gets worse when I get slap happy later at night. Seeing guts in that list when I read it, just had it calling to me and I had to post. LOL. Consider this the humor break in the thread.
Seriously, I have always pretty well said what I thought, which is why I was normally always in trouble in TWI with the higher ups for something I said or did. I never went higher than the Inter. class, knowing that if I did, then I'd end up getting myself kicked out and due to family members still being in, I had to avoid that happening. I did my best to protect them from being used for many years till I just couldn't take it or fake it any longer and had to fade away before I got M and A'd which would have resulted in TWI telling them never to speak to me again. Thus we can still talk on the phone to this day thankfully.
I think the 20 years I gave to TWI was more than enough and even though I was aware of all the crap really going on as early as 1979, I stayed until 1994 due to the love and concern I have for family still in, who bought every word TWI told them hook, line, and sinker and were open to be used if I wasn't around. (The using did happen off and on after I did leave.) They will probably never get out, but at least I'm thankful I am able to call and talk from time to time. It would have been hell had I gotten myself M & A'd and never had contact again.
I will say the relationships are very different now that I'm not in though, the love and closeness feeling left years ago, shortly after I got out. I just have to remind myself where it comes from .. TWI .. it's not the true person saying rude things to me, it's Corps training and Advanced Class teachings that changed them into how they think today, so I ignore it and avoid talking about anything TWI at all. I remember who they were prior to TWI and keep praying one day they will leave, but am not expecting to see that happen.
After getting out I grew stronger yet mentally and have been told by many I'm the most obstinate woman they've ever met when it comes to something important to me. I openly agree with them and know I'm stubborn as a mule at times. I will stand my ground if I feel I'm right and won't back down no matter what they try to get me to change my mind. If it turns out I'm wrong, I'm strong enough to admit that too and will when I apologize to the other person for being wrong.
I got in TWI at 16 years of age and I left 20 years later still mentally at the same stage. It's taken many years of hard work to 'grow up'. I still don't think like most people my age who were never in a cult. At least I am up to around 25 to 30 now emotionally and growing more towards where I should be at my 50 years of physical age every day. I think that was one of the worst things TWI did to me was to keep me from growing mentally in age thru the years, so when I got out it was very hard for me to communicate with people my own age. I still have many friends half my age that I relate to great and some my own age I just don't understand at all at times, but then they grew up outside of TWI. Once I explain it to them, they then do realize what I've been thru and will help me to understand them, which in turn helps me grow up more mentally to my real age. I'm sure there's plenty of you out there who've experienced or are going thru the same thing.
Isn't it wonderful to be out finally and be able to say things like 'no' or 'I don't feel that way about the subject at all', without condemning ourselves. Feels good to stand up on our own two feet and speak our minds, like we should have been able to do our entire lives, but we had that stolen from us by TWI when we were still in.
Guts? Cool, I can *prove* I have guts, but will behave myself for a change and not post the URL to the picture I had the surgeon take of the foot section of my small bowel he removed that the Crohn's Disease had destroyed.
I got in TWI at 16 years of age and I left 20 years later still mentally at the same stage. It's taken many years of hard work to 'grow up'. I still don't think like most people my age who were never in a cult. At least I am up to around 25 to 30 now emotionally and growing more towards where I should be at my 50 years of physical age every day. I think that was one of the worst things TWI did to me was to keep me from growing mentally in age thru the years, so when I got out it was very hard for me to communicate with people my own age. I still have many friends half my age that I relate to great and some my own age I just don't understand at all at times, but then they grew up outside of TWI. Once I explain it to them, they then do realize what I've been thru and will help me to understand them, which in turn helps me grow up more mentally to my real age. I'm sure there's plenty of you out there who've experienced or are going thru the same thing.
Isn't it wonderful to be out finally and be able to say things like 'no' or 'I don't feel that way about the subject at all', without condemning ourselves. Feels good to stand up on our own two feet and speak our minds, like we should have been able to do our entire lives, but we had that stolen from us by TWI when we were still in.
Ok first off...yuk! That was more than I needed to hear this early in the morning as I still drink my first cup of Diet Pepsi and choke down some Pringles. Ahhh... Breakfast of Champions!
I didn't so much come out the 17 year old that went in. I came out realizing that the 17 year old had been murdered, and all of her innocence and trust had died with her. I was hard and cold and yet at the same time afraid and so very lonely. It has taken me years to resurrect the inner joy that gave that 17 year old girl her boyancy and her vigor. But I kept the backbone that I had so carefully fashioned from my "training" and experiences. I just made it real, and not dependant upon anything except me.
Yes, I love that we can all speak our minds and feel free to disagree. We are all members in particular and we are all members of one body. We are individuals that are all part of one whole. God does love infinate diversity. And oh boy are we diverse!
I didn't so much come out the 17 year old that went in. I came out realizing that the 17 year old had been murdered, and all of her innocence and trust had died with her.
That pretty much describes the experience of a lot of women who went in to TWI and were later chewed up and spit out.
That pretty much describes the experience of a lot of women who went in to TWI and were later chewed up and spit out.
It is a sad truth. Unfortunately; many were litterally chewed up and spit out. I just had my leg chewed on in comparison. I have been reading your posts in another thread and I must say I am so very sorry for you and your entire family. Thank you for sharing with us all so that we may all come to a better understanding of TWI and VP.
It is a sad truth. Unfortunately; many were litterally chewed up and spit out. I just had my leg chewed on in comparison. I have been reading your posts in another thread and I must say I am so very sorry for you and your entire family. Thank you for sharing with us all so that we may all come to a better understanding of TWI and VP.
You're welcome.
I don't mind sharing for people who want to understand. It's those who, after hearing, stubbornly will to remain ignorant that tick me off.
I didn't so much come out the 17 year old that went in. I came out realizing that the 17 year old had been murdered, and all of her innocence and trust had died with her. I was hard and cold and yet at the same time afraid and so very lonely.
OMG what a powerfull way to describe what happened to us ... :blink: ..
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Eyesopen
I've been thinking, strange as is may seem this does happen upon occassion. :blink: So what I've been thinking about was our recovery as believers from the screwed up stuff that we assimilated in TW
excathedra
nah, you did fine
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another spot
I also believed the part in PFAL about "fear motivation" and didn't allow anyone to control me through fear, more or less.—Oldies
I understand. I had lots of fear about leaving, I just wasn’t recognizing it. Leaving was unthinkable. I never understood or recognized the control by fear until at least a year after I left. In any case, you did use your backbone, Oldies. Maybe it wasn’t some big process for you.
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Eyesopen
My friend that is the funniest description I have heard in a long time! I nearly spit my tea on my brand new keyboard!
I agree with Exie, You did fine.
This thread makes me think of the law in physics that states "For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction." Throughout our lives including the part that involved twi we are continually "reacting" to something. Be it a simple "jostle" while getting on the subway or a bump in the road that screws up your front end alignment. We each react differently to any situation. Even if the situation were exactly the same for each of us none of our reactions would be identical. But none of us experienced "exactly" the same thing so our reactions were that much more diverse. In addition, none of us percieve the action done to us (or around us) in the same manner. Hence our "reaction" of said action will be affected by our perception. For example if a person were to be accidently bumped while walking down the street by another person they might take personal affront to the accident and start yelling at the offender, while another person may simply apologize for the bump as if it were their fault. We might in turn say one person is wrong and the other is overreacting, or we might say something else. This brings us to Einstein's theory of relativity. What one person perceives as the truth another will not see it that way because of their individual perspectives and perceptions of reality.
The point is each of us were given situations in twi that we reacted to. The ultimate outcome of all of those actions/reactions is the individual people that we are today and our individual perception of twi. Oldies sees twi in a good light, Exie does not. They were each presented with seperate sets of actions for which they seperately reacted and then perceived the outcomes differently. Is one right and one wrong? Some say yes some say no. The truth is that neither is right and neither is wrong. And both are right and both are wrong. Depending on an individuals perception of reality. This of course in no way diminishes or minimizes the horrid, evil things that were inflicted on so many of which we know Exie was one. It only identifies that she reacted to her given situation in her own unique way, because she is an individual. The action produced an opposite and equal reaction. Her reaction was equal to the action done.
Today we are all presented with more actions every day. And we react to them based on our perception. When we change our perception by changing the knowledge from which we base our perceptions we can change the manner in which we react to a given situation. This is why some people are "growing or rediscovering" a backbone. They are learning as some of you have mentioned that they are worth something, that they are important and still children of God and all sorts of other true and uplifting things. This gives them a new perspective on themselves and life in general so they now are not even swayed by something that once would have knocked them on their foot.
Ya'll have pointed it out several times: Self love and self worth are a huge thing! And are absolutely necessary to have a healthy backbone.
P.S. Exie dear I hope that you don't mind me using you as an example in this manner. If I have stepped out of line please let me know and I will delete the post.
Oldiesman the same applies to you, please let me know if you feel that I have stepped out of line.
I hope that I didn't confuse anyone here. This darn couch has gone crazy!
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doojable
I'm offended! ;) You didn't mention me...
Seriously, I think you covered all the bases.
Do you remember the name of that movie with Michael Douglas where he finally has it and goes nuts...? I thought of that movie when you were describing reactions. - Granted, that was a real severe and real delayed reaction but it still describes what can happen.
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another spot
Lol. The next time I bump into someone I will declare them to be a relative....
Great post, Eyes.
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Eyesopen
"Falling Down"- Great movie! And yes it describes this type of thing exactly and as you say a bit on the extreme side.
But don't be offended my little chameleon, just melt back into the walls after you make sure the kool-aid and cookies are on the table.
OMG I don't mean for you to get violent!!
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Eagle
Wow, like I didn't get physical. Just well, lost my temper. Hope no one gets really violent if one of those idiots does what they were doing to the rest of us.
Let's just call them an idiot and go home.
Or as Patricia Heaton would say to Ray Romano:
"I'm tired. Could you just call yourself an idiot and let it go at that?"
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Eyesopen
I dont know why not...now that we dont get reproved for jokingly calling ourselves a name.
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BikerBabe
Guts? Cool, I can *prove* I have guts, but will behave myself for a change and not post the URL to the picture I had the surgeon take of the foot section of my small bowel he removed that the Crohn's Disease had destroyed.
Sorry, it's late and y'all know my humor is warped anyway and gets worse when I get slap happy later at night. Seeing guts in that list when I read it, just had it calling to me and I had to post. LOL. Consider this the humor break in the thread.
Seriously, I have always pretty well said what I thought, which is why I was normally always in trouble in TWI with the higher ups for something I said or did. I never went higher than the Inter. class, knowing that if I did, then I'd end up getting myself kicked out and due to family members still being in, I had to avoid that happening. I did my best to protect them from being used for many years till I just couldn't take it or fake it any longer and had to fade away before I got M and A'd which would have resulted in TWI telling them never to speak to me again. Thus we can still talk on the phone to this day thankfully.
I think the 20 years I gave to TWI was more than enough and even though I was aware of all the crap really going on as early as 1979, I stayed until 1994 due to the love and concern I have for family still in, who bought every word TWI told them hook, line, and sinker and were open to be used if I wasn't around. (The using did happen off and on after I did leave.) They will probably never get out, but at least I'm thankful I am able to call and talk from time to time. It would have been hell had I gotten myself M & A'd and never had contact again.
I will say the relationships are very different now that I'm not in though, the love and closeness feeling left years ago, shortly after I got out. I just have to remind myself where it comes from .. TWI .. it's not the true person saying rude things to me, it's Corps training and Advanced Class teachings that changed them into how they think today, so I ignore it and avoid talking about anything TWI at all. I remember who they were prior to TWI and keep praying one day they will leave, but am not expecting to see that happen.
After getting out I grew stronger yet mentally and have been told by many I'm the most obstinate woman they've ever met when it comes to something important to me. I openly agree with them and know I'm stubborn as a mule at times. I will stand my ground if I feel I'm right and won't back down no matter what they try to get me to change my mind. If it turns out I'm wrong, I'm strong enough to admit that too and will when I apologize to the other person for being wrong.
I got in TWI at 16 years of age and I left 20 years later still mentally at the same stage. It's taken many years of hard work to 'grow up'. I still don't think like most people my age who were never in a cult. At least I am up to around 25 to 30 now emotionally and growing more towards where I should be at my 50 years of physical age every day. I think that was one of the worst things TWI did to me was to keep me from growing mentally in age thru the years, so when I got out it was very hard for me to communicate with people my own age. I still have many friends half my age that I relate to great and some my own age I just don't understand at all at times, but then they grew up outside of TWI. Once I explain it to them, they then do realize what I've been thru and will help me to understand them, which in turn helps me grow up more mentally to my real age. I'm sure there's plenty of you out there who've experienced or are going thru the same thing.
Isn't it wonderful to be out finally and be able to say things like 'no' or 'I don't feel that way about the subject at all', without condemning ourselves. Feels good to stand up on our own two feet and speak our minds, like we should have been able to do our entire lives, but we had that stolen from us by TWI when we were still in.
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Eyesopen
Ok first off...yuk! That was more than I needed to hear this early in the morning as I still drink my first cup of Diet Pepsi and choke down some Pringles. Ahhh... Breakfast of Champions!
I didn't so much come out the 17 year old that went in. I came out realizing that the 17 year old had been murdered, and all of her innocence and trust had died with her. I was hard and cold and yet at the same time afraid and so very lonely. It has taken me years to resurrect the inner joy that gave that 17 year old girl her boyancy and her vigor. But I kept the backbone that I had so carefully fashioned from my "training" and experiences. I just made it real, and not dependant upon anything except me.
Yes, I love that we can all speak our minds and feel free to disagree. We are all members in particular and we are all members of one body. We are individuals that are all part of one whole. God does love infinate diversity. And oh boy are we diverse!
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Catcup
That pretty much describes the experience of a lot of women who went in to TWI and were later chewed up and spit out.
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Eyesopen
It is a sad truth. Unfortunately; many were litterally chewed up and spit out. I just had my leg chewed on in comparison. I have been reading your posts in another thread and I must say I am so very sorry for you and your entire family. Thank you for sharing with us all so that we may all come to a better understanding of TWI and VP.
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Catcup
You're welcome.
I don't mind sharing for people who want to understand. It's those who, after hearing, stubbornly will to remain ignorant that tick me off.
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rascal
OMG what a powerfull way to describe what happened to us ... :blink: ..
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Eyesopen
Thanks, that is just the way that I felt.
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cheranne
I just found this thread,and was thinking how twi use to tell us all the time to be BOLD!
Like (go witness to that guy...yada yada yada..oh how BOLD)
Or this is one I hate "Stand up to your "Earthly Family"
it's Christ in you !(or "code" for waybrain
we stick together like Musk Ox...such BS..
was that twi idea of a "spiritual backbone" it felt like more of an innoculation of numbing of our hearts
to "anything outside of twi"
Stand tall in answer to Gods call(only IF it was by TWI standards,rules and all that crap!)
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