If we are going to cite Jesus as a prime source for "believing".........why don't we ALSO cite Jesus as a prime source for WALKING IN LOVE?
I don't have a problem with that. However if some Greasespot posters actually applied "love God and your neighbor" it may be a devastating turn of events for the forums. :D
'Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: And others had trial of cruel mockings, and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, thet were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.'
hmm. These people were afforded quite a bit more respect and dignity than they would have been in "twig"..
"whadya mean you were tortured, mocked? Where's your believing? "
hmm. These people were afforded quite a bit more respect and dignity than they would have been in "twig"..
I totally disagree. In fact, as I recall the teaching by Dr. Wierwille on Hebrews 11, he emphatically lauded and respected these believers as having believed despite going through all these intense tribulations and still not receiving the promise. As opposed to us, who have received the promise, received Christ, and all that goes with it, and still moan and complain and have sacrificed little compared to these other believers.
Maybe that's why people come here.. one of the few places on the planet that some people can understand a person.
I told my friend here about the parking lot illustration. She laughed.. for a long long time.. "you REALLY gagued your spirituality by where you parked the car????"
"Well, not me.. but I knew quite a few that did.."
One or two happened to be in the car with me. One said: "Whadya parking way back HERE for??!! You expect me to WALK? WHERE IS YOUR BELIEVING??!!!"
NOO joke.
Now it IS a joke. We pull in the third row, I say "well, I guess we're bronze today.."
Oldiesman......I thought that I'd repost my comments so that you, and others, might better have the context of your "walking in love" reply.
Besides "cherry-picking" verses that twi deems fits their agendas.....they ALSO "chop down other trees" that stand in their way. Why doesn't twi deal with the adultery issues OR the love God/love your neighbor issues like Jesus Christ did.....yet, they quickly highlight his words when it comes to believing?
And.......every notice how twi/vpw highlights the pauline epistles over and over again in examples for the born-again believer to follow in the steps of Paul/Timothy/Silas. After all, these verses are written TO us and specifically addressed TO the believers. YET.....in addressing believing, twi cites Jesus' words.
What about adultery? Does twi highlight Jesus' words?
What about loving God and your neighbor? Does twi highlight Jesus' words?
Doesn't it seem hypocritical to "jump from adminstration to administration" and CHERRY-PICK the verses and concepts that propel one's agendas......while, at the same time, dish out vehement reproof when someone doesn't apply the love of God as twi dictates? I think so.
If we are going to cite Jesus as a prime source for "believing".........why don't we ALSO cite Jesus as a prime source for WALKING IN LOVE?
I totally disagree. In fact, as I recall the teaching by Dr. Wierwille on Hebrews 11, he emphatically lauded and respected these believers as having believed despite going through all these intense tribulations and still not receiving the promise. As opposed to us, who have received the promise, received Christ, and all that goes with it, and still moan and complain and have sacrificed little compared to these other believers.
Not where I went to twig..
I knew one person who had a broken bone, and it was taking longer to heal than the branch person thought it should. Said person was REAMED for it.. forget that it happened to be the one bone in the body that had the least blood flow by it.. for some people it is a miracle if it is even healed to begin with..
dignity? respect? Naw.. they just need somebody to clean the house for them.. just "believe"..
these people in Hebrews are afforded more respect than it they went to "twig" today..
a guy who couldn't "believe" sufficiently, as to not have to get up in a meeting, and go to the bathroom.. kicked out.
Respect? Dignity?
What about some who died? At least one I remember, was a fully-functioning, mature, ADULT.
"well, the parents. they didn't believe, stand with da "household".. that's what did it.."
I don't have a problem with that. However if some Greasespot posters actually applied "love God and your neighbor" it may be a devastating turn of events for the forums. :D
Let’s think about TWI’s application of loving God and neighbor…
“God, I love the hope of prosperity I see in your word and thanks in advance for bringing to pass everything on the needs-list that I dropped off this morning during my four 15s. Thank you for filling me with the boldness to confront my neighbor on worshipping the wrong god and show me a loving way to challenge him to take the class.”
I think part of the human problem was man trying to define God's "end of the deal", practically to the extent that we thought he was some kind of Santa Claus machine.
ANYTHING you want, anytime.. if "whatsoever" really means "whatsoever", in an all inclusive sense.
Find a bible verse to justify asking for the front parking spot in front of the store..
Well. I want a dog, a cat, a pony.. gimme a Harley, a few hundred pounds of gold bullion.. and any one of those requests could be at least partially justified with some verse somewhere..
I think if that's how things really worked, the world would be even more of a nightmare.
So many requests ought not to be even asked in prayer.
Except on Christma Day!
I think part of the human problem was man trying to define God's "end of the deal", practically to the extent that we thought he was some kind of Santa Claus machine.
ANYTHING you want, anytime.. if "whatsoever" really means "whatsoever", in an all inclusive sense.
Find a bible verse to justify asking for the front parking spot in front of the store..
Well. I want a dog, a cat, a pony.. gimme a Harley, a few hundred pounds of gold bullion.. and any one of those requests could be at least partially justified with some verse somewhere..
I think if that's how things really worked, the world would be even more of a nightmare.
So many requests ought not to be even asked in prayer.
“God, I love the hope of prosperity I see in your word and thanks in advance for bringing to pass everything on the needs-list that I dropped off this morning during my four 15s. Thank you for filling me with the boldness to confront my neighbor on worshipping the wrong god and show me a loving way to challenge him to take the class.”
Oldiesman......I thought that I'd repost my comments so that you, and others, might better have the context of your "walking in love" reply.
Besides "cherry-picking" verses that twi deems fits their agendas.....they ALSO "chop down other trees" that stand in their way. Why doesn't twi deal with the adultery issues OR the love God/love your neighbor issues like Jesus Christ did.....yet, they quickly highlight his words when it comes to believing?
Yeah, that's what happened. As you are well aware, some verses in twi were taken literally while some others were not. I don't disagree that, since we took the verses about believing literally, some other verses that we didn't take literally should have been. Seems fair to me. But we are talking about "believing" in this thread, not love or adultery.
What is your take on Matthew 21:22? Should we take Jesus' words literally in that verse?
Yeah, that's what happened. As you are well aware, some verses in twi were taken literally while some others were not. I don't disagree that, since we took the verses about believing literally, some other verses that we didn't take literally should have been. Seems fair to me.
Whether some were literal or figurative.......my point was that TWI highlights some aspects and gives the silent treatment to other aspects.
Most here realize that vpw's "the law of believing" was one of the cornerstones of his pfal class and corps indoctrination.
No, I do not think the verse in Matthew is literally true in a word-for-word sense.
If one takes it to be literally true, it clashes with other sections of scripture such as God not being a respecter of persons.
It also puts a real damper on the concepts of grace, mercy and forgiveness.
If it were literally true, God would have to show favoritism to those who "believe" the biggest.
What about a person with autism who does not connect with the world around them?
Does God preclude that person from receiving his blessings?
What about a person with severe mental retardation?
Are they spiritually excluded from God's goodness?
I don't pretend to know the absolute meaning of that verse but somehow I think that maybe there is more to it than appears on the surface.
"Believing" is a real entity. I don't discount its existence.
I don't, however, think you can change the physical world around you one iota simply by using some mental process called "believing". You can not think something into or out of existence by thought alone. You have to take some form of physical action. HEY!, levitate a table. What? Not relevant to God's word? Why, sure it is. It could help you prove your assertion that there is a "Law Of Believing".
The real heart of what is being discussed here(IMO) is not the "law" of believing but the fact that TWI took scriptures and, rather than actually try to see how they could be applied to life, perverted them and used them to suit their own purpose.
And that, my friend, is why a discussion of "love" and "adultery" is appropriate in this thread.
As I see it, this topic is all about scripture and how much one believes it, not necessary twi.
Jesus did say results would follow those who believe. So then if results don't follow, maybe one is not believing? Seems logical to me.
Perhaps Jesus was mistaken. Or he was misquoted. He certainly doesn't seem to be right on this one
I think TWI is getting a bad rap here. It is as plain as day that the scriptures teach believing as a concept to receive results.
But believing what exactly? TWI's version was to believe for what you wanted/needed as long as it was "available" and you knew how to receive and what to do with it. Formulaic. It doesn't seem to be what prayer is all about in the bible. You ask, God decides whether he wants to pony up and you get what you prayed for or you don't.
Perhaps Jesus was mistaken. Or he was misquoted. He certainly doesn't seem to be right on this one
But believing what exactly? TWI's version was to believe for what you wanted/needed as long as it was "available" and you knew how to receive and what to do with it. Formulaic. It doesn't seem to be what prayer is all about in the bible. You ask, God decides whether he wants to pony up and you get what you prayed for or you don't.
VP & TWI seemed to have reduced God down to a couple of magic formulas in order to explain God and explain life in general:
Believing equals receiving
Giving equals receiving.
God can't be reduced to a couple of formulas. He is BIGGER than that.
But VP always wanted to put God in a box for us, via his pre-packaged, plagiarized, reformulated, and regurgitated class.
VP & TWI seemed to have reduced God down to a couple of magic formulas in order to explain God and explain life in general:
Believing equals receiving
Giving equals receiving.
God can't be reduced to a couple of formulas. He is BIGGER than that.
But VP always wanted to put God in a box for us, via his pre-packaged, plagiarized, reformulated, and regurgitated class.
Time and time again, we heard this.
Then.......around 1979 (?) I remember Rev. Lonnxl Johnsxn's article in the Way Magazine entitled Giving and Receiving clarifying this misnomer of "giving equals receiving." Softly, and pointedly....he exposed some error that we'd heard from veepee and lcm.
Gee....even an ole farmer knows better. Plant one seed of corn and how many do you RECEIVE back???
NOT just one.
Or, think in terms of......Pressed Down, Shaken Together, and Running Over.
If one takes it to be literally true, it clashes with other sections of scripture such as God not being a respecter of persons.
If God requires believing when one prays, it does not make Him a respecter of persons. It makes Him a respecter of conditions, which He is.
"Give, and it shall be given unto you".
"If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him who believes" -Mark 9: 23
"Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them". Mark 11:24
"The fear of man bringeth a snare, but whoso puteth his trust in the lord shall be safe". Proverbs 29:25
All of these verses require conditions, and, there are oodles more. Now, if one doesn't like this, and doesn't believe that this is "right on", then the smartest thing and the most honest thing to do is to simply respond to it like George Aar has done. He thinks its all a crock of hooey. And that is fine. It is honest. George doesn't want any part of it, and that is his prerogative. Go George. But, if one is still a Christian, and wants to do what the Bible says and wants the results promised in the holy scriptures, then the requirement to believe when one prays is in fact a pre-requisite, as Jesus said. Shoot, I dunno. The Man (Jesus) said it, and so I'll trust him. He's my Big Bruh, I trust him.
Now, someone mentioned that The Way taught that God was like a "santa Clause machine" or something to that effect. That you can just "pray the right way, and boom you get what you want"! Well I'll tell ya. During all of my time since I learned a little bit about God's Word and how to pray with believing, it wasn't the "stuff" that I got when I prayed (like that Buick Wildcat, like my dad's miraculous total healing from a heart attack after I prayed for him while claiming John 14:12*, and the list goes on...), but it was the joyous and unfathomable truth that The Almighty God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth would hear little old me, that He was an actual and real live part of my life! That my puny little old self would be loved and taken care of, and even thought of by El Shaddai, the Lord God Almighty! Yeah! That's the thrill that comes with an answered prayer! Not the "stuff", but that I really do have a Heavenly Father who cares. That's the thrill for me, to be sure. Works for me, and I still like it.. :)
*John 14:12, "The works that I do ye shall do also, and greater works than these shall ye do, for I go unto my Father."
I think the problem here is not that VP taught believing equals receiving, but that people used that and other scripture as a weapon to beat down God's people with. Liberals believe that if they act on something they believe is morally right, then good things will eventually happen. Key word being 'eventually'.
I went to school once and there was this woman whose husband was killed in WW2 who was also there. I can't even remember what her status was, but she got to speak at the graduation ceremony and she was around a lot in a writing class I took. She was really hung up on world peace. She wrote this poem about how 120,000 snow flakes landed on a tree branch during a snowstorm. Nothing else happened. Then the 120,001st snowflake fell on the tree branch and it crackled and fell down. This was how world peace was going to happen. If you just kept hammering away by talking about it all the time, then sooner or later it would just happen, said she. She once asked me if the bible said anything about world peace cause she knew I was into the bible. I just said no.
That's not how life works. Poor woman; she probably never got over what happened to her husband. But she clung to the 'pie in the sky' type belief that world peace would eventually happen. This kind of thing makes me thankful we were taught what we were about believing. Reality is not all fixed. We CAN control some of what happens to us and all of how we respond to what happens to us, and our beliefs and belief systems have a lot to do with that.
I feel compelled to mention my hitching experience in 1979. I didn't come up with the $$$ for Advanced class '79, but I took the 2 weeks off from work anyway and hitched from Columbia, MO, where I lived at the time, to Fresno, CA. where someone I knew lived. I left Columbia mid afternoon; got an all night ride putting me in Amarillo, TX. at dawn. I'd heard a lot of war stories from my hippie days about hitching and cops in Amarillo, so I ate and freshened up in an IHOP.
When I got back on the highway I prayed to God; I said, "Lord, if YOU are really the one getting me a ride, then YOU could get me a ride all the way to Fresno just as easily as YOU could get me a ride 2 miles down the road, so that's what I want, in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen!" I was thinking of Jonathan's declaration in 1 Sam that there is no restraint to the Lord to save by many or by few. Well, after an hour wait, it HAPPENED!
These 2 guys in their late teens were coming from Kansas intending to go to Los Angeles first, then San Francisco. Some business deal <_<. If they'd stuck to their plan they would have dropped me off in Barstow, CA which is right in the middle of Death Valley :( . But in New Mexico they picked up 3 more hitchhikers who were apparently even more annoying than me. One of those three was especially irritating to one of the guys from Kansas.
So they dropped those three off in Barstow and decided to go to San Francisco first, dropping me off in Fresno about a block away from where I was going. Think about this: if they had decided to go to San Francisco first from Kansas they wouldn't have come south; they'd have taken hwy 70 to Denver, then hwy 25 up to Cheyenne, and then hwy 80 the rest of the way to SF. Is this too cool?
I witnessed to them a little, but not aggressively. I did not tell them what I'd prayed. When we got to Fresno I told them I'd like to buy them a case of the beer of their choice just to thank them for the ride. They gladly accepted and went their way. I bet not too many other "Jesus freaks" ever did that for them. I have no idea what ever happened to them; maybe they eventually got born again, or maybe they died in a fiery crash before they got to SF.
Nothing happened while I was in Fresno that seemed to be life or death for anybody. From God's pov things may have been different, but from my pov it was just a vacation done because I couldn't get my believing together to get the money for the AC. The prayer was just me acting on what I was taught in pfal. After I got back with the believers in Columbia, several people including my twig cordo told me they sensed that hitching to CA was what I really needed to do; that I seemed refreshed. Seems to me that God worked in my situation not according to the script of legalistic twiers.
But believing is not making God into a vending machine, as some on this thread have implied. Everybody believes heavy and or light about their lives and their feelings; even non religious people. God designed the human mind, so God allows for people to benefit from believing. That's not so outlandish, is it?
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oldiesman
I don't have a problem with that. However if some Greasespot posters actually applied "love God and your neighbor" it may be a devastating turn of events for the forums. :D
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Ham
hmm. These people were afforded quite a bit more respect and dignity than they would have been in "twig"..
"whadya mean you were tortured, mocked? Where's your believing? "
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oldiesman
I totally disagree. In fact, as I recall the teaching by Dr. Wierwille on Hebrews 11, he emphatically lauded and respected these believers as having believed despite going through all these intense tribulations and still not receiving the promise. As opposed to us, who have received the promise, received Christ, and all that goes with it, and still moan and complain and have sacrificed little compared to these other believers.
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Ham
Maybe that's why people come here.. one of the few places on the planet that some people can understand a person.
I told my friend here about the parking lot illustration. She laughed.. for a long long time.. "you REALLY gagued your spirituality by where you parked the car????"
"Well, not me.. but I knew quite a few that did.."
One or two happened to be in the car with me. One said: "Whadya parking way back HERE for??!! You expect me to WALK? WHERE IS YOUR BELIEVING??!!!"
NOO joke.
Now it IS a joke. We pull in the third row, I say "well, I guess we're bronze today.."
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skyrider
Oldiesman......I thought that I'd repost my comments so that you, and others, might better have the context of your "walking in love" reply.
Besides "cherry-picking" verses that twi deems fits their agendas.....they ALSO "chop down other trees" that stand in their way. Why doesn't twi deal with the adultery issues OR the love God/love your neighbor issues like Jesus Christ did.....yet, they quickly highlight his words when it comes to believing?
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Ham
Not where I went to twig..
I knew one person who had a broken bone, and it was taking longer to heal than the branch person thought it should. Said person was REAMED for it.. forget that it happened to be the one bone in the body that had the least blood flow by it.. for some people it is a miracle if it is even healed to begin with..
dignity? respect? Naw.. they just need somebody to clean the house for them.. just "believe"..
these people in Hebrews are afforded more respect than it they went to "twig" today..
a guy who couldn't "believe" sufficiently, as to not have to get up in a meeting, and go to the bathroom.. kicked out.
Respect? Dignity?
What about some who died? At least one I remember, was a fully-functioning, mature, ADULT.
"well, the parents. they didn't believe, stand with da "household".. that's what did it.."
Pretty vile, in my opinion.
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Ham
"How long will it be before you can clean the house for me again???!!!!"
This was actually said..
what suffering, what pain.. damn sycophant would actually have to clean their own house..
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T-Bone
Let’s think about TWI’s application of loving God and neighbor…
“God, I love the hope of prosperity I see in your word and thanks in advance for bringing to pass everything on the needs-list that I dropped off this morning during my four 15s. Thank you for filling me with the boldness to confront my neighbor on worshipping the wrong god and show me a loving way to challenge him to take the class.”
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Bumpy
Except on Christma Day!
Except on Christmas Day!
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Ham
You'd get an "A" in "twig" for that one..
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oldiesman
Yeah, that's what happened. As you are well aware, some verses in twi were taken literally while some others were not. I don't disagree that, since we took the verses about believing literally, some other verses that we didn't take literally should have been. Seems fair to me. But we are talking about "believing" in this thread, not love or adultery.
What is your take on Matthew 21:22? Should we take Jesus' words literally in that verse?
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skyrider
Whether some were literal or figurative.......my point was that TWI highlights some aspects and gives the silent treatment to other aspects.
Most here realize that vpw's "the law of believing" was one of the cornerstones of his pfal class and corps indoctrination.
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Lizzy
Yes, this is true as do Catholic, Baptists, and all Protestants. I wonder why that is?
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Lizzy
No Look what happens when we do.
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Catcup
And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive. (Matthew 21:22)
SO, what does the word ALL mean?
You can hang yourself with that one. Not everything you ask for will be given, no matter how bad you want it and no matter how hard you believe.
This is in no way literal.
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waysider
Oldies
No, I do not think the verse in Matthew is literally true in a word-for-word sense.
If one takes it to be literally true, it clashes with other sections of scripture such as God not being a respecter of persons.
It also puts a real damper on the concepts of grace, mercy and forgiveness.
If it were literally true, God would have to show favoritism to those who "believe" the biggest.
What about a person with autism who does not connect with the world around them?
Does God preclude that person from receiving his blessings?
What about a person with severe mental retardation?
Are they spiritually excluded from God's goodness?
I don't pretend to know the absolute meaning of that verse but somehow I think that maybe there is more to it than appears on the surface.
"Believing" is a real entity. I don't discount its existence.
I don't, however, think you can change the physical world around you one iota simply by using some mental process called "believing". You can not think something into or out of existence by thought alone. You have to take some form of physical action. HEY!, levitate a table. What? Not relevant to God's word? Why, sure it is. It could help you prove your assertion that there is a "Law Of Believing".
The real heart of what is being discussed here(IMO) is not the "law" of believing but the fact that TWI took scriptures and, rather than actually try to see how they could be applied to life, perverted them and used them to suit their own purpose.
And that, my friend, is why a discussion of "love" and "adultery" is appropriate in this thread.
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Oakspear
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Catcup
VP & TWI seemed to have reduced God down to a couple of magic formulas in order to explain God and explain life in general:
Believing equals receiving
Giving equals receiving.
God can't be reduced to a couple of formulas. He is BIGGER than that.
But VP always wanted to put God in a box for us, via his pre-packaged, plagiarized, reformulated, and regurgitated class.
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skyrider
Time and time again, we heard this.
Then.......around 1979 (?) I remember Rev. Lonnxl Johnsxn's article in the Way Magazine entitled Giving and Receiving clarifying this misnomer of "giving equals receiving." Softly, and pointedly....he exposed some error that we'd heard from veepee and lcm.
Gee....even an ole farmer knows better. Plant one seed of corn and how many do you RECEIVE back???
NOT just one.
Or, think in terms of......Pressed Down, Shaken Together, and Running Over.
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J0nny Ling0
If God requires believing when one prays, it does not make Him a respecter of persons. It makes Him a respecter of conditions, which He is.
"Give, and it shall be given unto you".
"If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him who believes" -Mark 9: 23
"Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them". Mark 11:24
"The fear of man bringeth a snare, but whoso puteth his trust in the lord shall be safe". Proverbs 29:25
All of these verses require conditions, and, there are oodles more. Now, if one doesn't like this, and doesn't believe that this is "right on", then the smartest thing and the most honest thing to do is to simply respond to it like George Aar has done. He thinks its all a crock of hooey. And that is fine. It is honest. George doesn't want any part of it, and that is his prerogative. Go George. But, if one is still a Christian, and wants to do what the Bible says and wants the results promised in the holy scriptures, then the requirement to believe when one prays is in fact a pre-requisite, as Jesus said. Shoot, I dunno. The Man (Jesus) said it, and so I'll trust him. He's my Big Bruh, I trust him.
Now, someone mentioned that The Way taught that God was like a "santa Clause machine" or something to that effect. That you can just "pray the right way, and boom you get what you want"! Well I'll tell ya. During all of my time since I learned a little bit about God's Word and how to pray with believing, it wasn't the "stuff" that I got when I prayed (like that Buick Wildcat, like my dad's miraculous total healing from a heart attack after I prayed for him while claiming John 14:12*, and the list goes on...), but it was the joyous and unfathomable truth that The Almighty God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth would hear little old me, that He was an actual and real live part of my life! That my puny little old self would be loved and taken care of, and even thought of by El Shaddai, the Lord God Almighty! Yeah! That's the thrill that comes with an answered prayer! Not the "stuff", but that I really do have a Heavenly Father who cares. That's the thrill for me, to be sure. Works for me, and I still like it..
:) 
*John 14:12, "The works that I do ye shall do also, and greater works than these shall ye do, for I go unto my Father."
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johniam
I think the problem here is not that VP taught believing equals receiving, but that people used that and other scripture as a weapon to beat down God's people with. Liberals believe that if they act on something they believe is morally right, then good things will eventually happen. Key word being 'eventually'.
I went to school once and there was this woman whose husband was killed in WW2 who was also there. I can't even remember what her status was, but she got to speak at the graduation ceremony and she was around a lot in a writing class I took. She was really hung up on world peace. She wrote this poem about how 120,000 snow flakes landed on a tree branch during a snowstorm. Nothing else happened. Then the 120,001st snowflake fell on the tree branch and it crackled and fell down. This was how world peace was going to happen. If you just kept hammering away by talking about it all the time, then sooner or later it would just happen, said she. She once asked me if the bible said anything about world peace cause she knew I was into the bible. I just said no.
That's not how life works. Poor woman; she probably never got over what happened to her husband. But she clung to the 'pie in the sky' type belief that world peace would eventually happen. This kind of thing makes me thankful we were taught what we were about believing. Reality is not all fixed. We CAN control some of what happens to us and all of how we respond to what happens to us, and our beliefs and belief systems have a lot to do with that.
I feel compelled to mention my hitching experience in 1979. I didn't come up with the $$$ for Advanced class '79, but I took the 2 weeks off from work anyway and hitched from Columbia, MO, where I lived at the time, to Fresno, CA. where someone I knew lived. I left Columbia mid afternoon; got an all night ride putting me in Amarillo, TX. at dawn. I'd heard a lot of war stories from my hippie days about hitching and cops in Amarillo, so I ate and freshened up in an IHOP.
When I got back on the highway I prayed to God; I said, "Lord, if YOU are really the one getting me a ride, then YOU could get me a ride all the way to Fresno just as easily as YOU could get me a ride 2 miles down the road, so that's what I want, in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen!" I was thinking of Jonathan's declaration in 1 Sam that there is no restraint to the Lord to save by many or by few. Well, after an hour wait, it HAPPENED!
These 2 guys in their late teens were coming from Kansas intending to go to Los Angeles first, then San Francisco. Some business deal <_<. If they'd stuck to their plan they would have dropped me off in Barstow, CA which is right in the middle of Death Valley :( . But in New Mexico they picked up 3 more hitchhikers who were apparently even more annoying than me. One of those three was especially irritating to one of the guys from Kansas.
So they dropped those three off in Barstow and decided to go to San Francisco first, dropping me off in Fresno about a block away from where I was going. Think about this: if they had decided to go to San Francisco first from Kansas they wouldn't have come south; they'd have taken hwy 70 to Denver, then hwy 25 up to Cheyenne, and then hwy 80 the rest of the way to SF. Is this too cool?
I witnessed to them a little, but not aggressively. I did not tell them what I'd prayed. When we got to Fresno I told them I'd like to buy them a case of the beer of their choice just to thank them for the ride. They gladly accepted and went their way. I bet not too many other "Jesus freaks" ever did that for them. I have no idea what ever happened to them; maybe they eventually got born again, or maybe they died in a fiery crash before they got to SF.
Nothing happened while I was in Fresno that seemed to be life or death for anybody. From God's pov things may have been different, but from my pov it was just a vacation done because I couldn't get my believing together to get the money for the AC. The prayer was just me acting on what I was taught in pfal. After I got back with the believers in Columbia, several people including my twig cordo told me they sensed that hitching to CA was what I really needed to do; that I seemed refreshed. Seems to me that God worked in my situation not according to the script of legalistic twiers.
But believing is not making God into a vending machine, as some on this thread have implied. Everybody believes heavy and or light about their lives and their feelings; even non religious people. God designed the human mind, so God allows for people to benefit from believing. That's not so outlandish, is it?
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excathedra
i was NOT judging you, jonny, or saying you worshipped a bad god
i was just referring to your post about the car, the same post about your rock and a million "i don't know's" -- it gave me a headache just reading it
kind of reminded me of that thing where god would have to change all the laws of the universe to accommodate one of his children
and it also reminded me of the old tried and true "god must be punishing me"
i said it kind of REMINDED me -- i didn't say you said that
--
okay off to the broom closet, butt socks
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J0nny Ling0
Sorry for the headache ExC. Take an Excedrin I spose...
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excathedra
it's really the universal laws of god that give me the headache, jonny, not you
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