It seems to me that attributing every evil event in a person's life to their 'believing' or lack thereof bypasses the reality of an adversary. John and I recently dealt with a situation involving a person with no insurance backing into our car. I take exception to the idea that our 'believing' caused the accident. We were also confronted with a friend of ours having a recurrance of cancer who underwent surgery rather than experiencing a supernatural healing. Some people would characterize this person as an 'inadequate believer', but I don't agree with that either. I think undergoing surgery indicates this person's resolve to be healed by whatever means are at their disposal.
I figure, if the rain falls on the just and the unjust, then stressing over why things happen is pointless. We are fallen people living in a fallen world, and .... happens!
When something bad happens to the mog or twi leadership.....its because the adversary is so mad that they've taken such a mighty stand on the Word and is fighting them via his many evil methods.
When something bad happens to the lowly believer or corps person.....its because he/she is NOT believing God and needs someone more "spiritual" to point it out to them
Oh.....I wonder if Dr. Wierwille was believing to die prematurely from cancer?
The "Law" of Believing as practiced by TWI was circular reasoning.
Believing = Receiving
"But I believed and didn't receive!"
"Then you didn't really believe!"
Sure most of us can point to bible verses that say (or seem to say) believing = receiving, and many of us can dredge from our memory situations where we "believed" for something and received it, but the "Law" put us at the center of the universe, everything that happened to us was caused by our thoughts, so of course we had to be "reproved" when the bad things happened because, after all, we had caused them to occur!
Think about the pressure that we were under: every single thing that affected outr lives was under our control :o
When something bad happens to the mog or twi leadership.....its because the adversary is so mad that they've taken such a mighty stand on the Word and is fighting them via his many evil methods.
When something bad happens to the lowly believer or corps person.....its because he/she is NOT believing God and needs someone more "spiritual" to point it out to them
Oh.....I wonder if Dr. Wierwille was believing to die prematurely from cancer?
Obviously, it's a NO win situation! Try playing golf and working that deal after each shot! Especially on the green !
Where I find fault in the law of believing is the idea that you can manipulate reality. And by that I mean having a directoverriding influenceon something or someone outside of myself. Even to say a Christian does this by petitioning God in prayer is a misunderstanding of prayer. It is not our prayers that accomplish anything but rather the God to whom we pray! Our faith merely submitting to our sovereign Lord…and in a sense humbly acknowledging a partnership with Him in our prayer or acts of faith.
In my opinion, what you believe shapes your mental map of reality. When I was in TWI, my mental map of reality was of downtown Oz but my feet were actually in Kansas. It makes a lot more sense to have the right map for where you want to go. Like Covey talks about in his 7 Habits book, using a map of downtown Manhattan will not help you at all in downtown Chicago. I agree with Covey when he says the closer our mental maps are to reality the more valuable they become.
Something we can control are our attitudes and actions – two dynamic factors that determine our accomplishments. Perhaps at a subconscious level they steer us to and prepare us for that which has occupied our thinking – like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Maybe there's a lot more going on in these "mental subroutines" than we're aware of, things like: determination, self reliance, persistence, good habits, hopeful, focused thinking, discipline - or - bad habits, fear of failure, self sabotage, scatterbrained, hopelessness, laziness.
TWI's fascination with the law of believing was seen as a shortcut to get what you want without having to do all the required work. I guess I'm old fashioned – I think success happens when opportunity and preparation converge. That translates to smart focused work and keeping an eye out for the opportune moment. TWI takes a wishful thinking approach – never earning a right to the payoff and hoping they can magically rig the game in their favor.
Many times I would be in challenging situations, (or in Wayish, having an opportunity to believe), and I would try to confide in what I thought would be a competent people. I would start explaining my situation, and almost every time, in the middle of my explanation they would interrupt and say "No, no. Don't confess a negative." As if stating the facts would make the situation worse.
So what I learned was to never tell anyone your problems and act like you're oblivious to them yourself. The key to your problems is to mentally act like everything is peachy, when everything ain't. (Oops! I just confessed a negative. Here cometh the Adversary!)
The "Law" of Believing as practiced by TWI was circular reasoning.
Believing = Receiving
"But I believed and didn't receive!"
"Then you didn't really believe!"
Sure most of us can point to bible verses that say (or seem to say) believing = receiving, and many of us can dredge from our memory situations where we "believed" for something and received it, but the "Law" put us at the center of the universe, everything that happened to us was caused by our thoughts, so of course we had to be "reproved" when the bad things happened because, after all, we had caused them to occur!
Think about the pressure that we were under: every single thing that affected outr lives was under our control :o
IT WAS ALL CIRCULAR LOGIC - A sealed system of it, like a bearing on an axel. The whole crock of crap was just an answer to it's own inevitable questions to the wrong answers that you'd been given to start with. Those questions were called an "unrenewed mind" by the way, in case you don't remember having them...
You went to twi for an abundant life, but inevitably, and invariably if no abundant life came unto you - it was your fault. There was no other answer possible - the default was set to "it's the believer's fault", and the default was NEVER changed. The fact that your life was still sucky in any way wasn't the "consequences" either, because the real "consequeces" were always left as a possibility that assuredly WOULD come if you left twi: posession!
But you wanted to stay... because: no one IN twi was ever possessed - unless it was convenient and they had already been, or were just about to be "cleaned out" - because possession was the fear specifically designed to keep you IN!
Which was fine with you. You wanted to stay in, because you just knew you were right on the verge of the abundant life... if you could JUST renew your freakin' mind to BELIEVE that eating balogne on white bread and not owning a car was abundance, while you were giving 23% of your income to twi.
In my opinion, what you believe shapes your mental map of reality. When I was in TWI, my mental map of reality was of downtown Oz but my feet were actually in Kansas. It makes a lot more sense to have the right map for where you want to go. Like Covey talks about in his 7 Habits book, using a map of downtown Manhattan will not help you at all in downtown Chicago. I agree with Covey when he says the closer our mental maps are to reality the more valuable they become.
What you believe IS important! If there's a law of believing, it would certainly have to be closer to the above... heck the law of believing itself may even be 100% dead on - but the point is - it was severely misused for the gain of our old evil taskmasters.
A hammer is not wrong on its own - but when taken from the box, and used to work on the windows - it can become very destructive.
"And all things whatsoever you shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive".
Well now, Jesus spoke those words, and I believe them. Does that mean "believing equals receiving"? I don't know. Is this "The Law Of Believing"? I don't know. But Jesus said that if you believe when you pray, you shall (absolute tense) receive. I believe that. And so, people have asked here recently in another thread, "why would God answer one person's prayer, but not another persons?" I don't know. But, if what Jesus said was/is true, then I am willing to give God the benefit of the doubt, and suspect that the problem with the unanswered prayer came about because of some problem on the part of the human, and not because God was "being quirky". The thing that I have always enjoyed about God's Word is that it has always been a ROCK for me. Something that never changes, is always there, and always dependable. And I have always been willing to say, if things are going in a negative manner, it's gotta be me, and not Him, for God is perfect, and I definitely am not.
On the other hand, I have seen extraordinary results in my life due to prayer when I have prayed with this verse in mind. Once, when I was a WOW, I prayed specifically for a car, because my "piece of sheet car" was broken down, and we needed a car to get around South Central L.A. Within the week, I invited a guy to twig, who came, and when twig was over and he had learned that our car wasn't working (because he'd asked for a ride and we couldn't give him one), he offered to give me a car that he had. He gave me the keys right there on the spot. And, it was a 67 Buick Wildcat with a 430 C.I. engine with a four barrel carburetor, air conditioning, electric seats, electric windows, whitewall tires, dual exhaust, and, it had a very nice gold paint job. The day I drove it home, I took him and my WOW family cruising on the Sunset Strip and Hollywood Boulevard. We had a blast. We called it our "Ephesians 3:20 Car". And, I had spoken aloud throughout the time after I prayed for it that "it will be great to be driving that car God is going to supply for me". And, it happened sure as you're born. It was a trip man, and we were all blown away by it and it totally boosted our moral and our confidence in God and His Son Jesus Christ.
And so, was that "The Law Of Believing"? I dunno. I thought so then, but today I don't know what you'd "label" it. Was it believing equals receiving?" Again, I dunno. I believed that then though. But maybe I don't call it that today. Haven't thought of that "label" in a long time, really. But, am I happy to have learned that I could pray like that? Yes I am, and I endeavor to pray like that to this day. I am glad to have learned that while I was in The Way. And, there are numerous verses of Scripture where Jesus talks about how faith and believing is in fact a pre-requisite to getting prayers answered. I dunno what we should label it, but, I am thankful to have had that pointed out to me.
Now, some may think that I am being a "Way apologist" here, but I am not. Some may say; "Well, you could have learned that many other places". And this is true, but let's not get off the track, for we are not talking about that, really. I think we are talking about this TWI labeled "Law" of believing. I don't know what to call it once again, but the Bible is loaded with many specific instructions that if we are to receive, we must first believe. It's pretty straight forward, really. And there are numerous examples in the Bible of that same pre-requisite to receiving things from God. The gospels are loaded with examples as Jesus himself demonstrated. And that, I can trust. I can't trust myself, but I can trust God's Word to be true, and that gives me great hope and comfort. Anyway, food for thought... :)
I am willing to give God the benefit of the doubt, and suspect that the problem with the unanswered prayer came about because of some problem on the part of the human, and not because God was "being quirky".
I think part of the human problem was man trying to define God's "end of the deal", practically to the extent that we thought he was some kind of Santa Claus machine.
ANYTHING you want, anytime.. if "whatsoever" really means "whatsoever", in an all inclusive sense.
Find a bible verse to justify asking for the front parking spot in front of the store..
Well. I want a dog, a cat, a pony.. gimme a Harley, a few hundred pounds of gold bullion.. and any one of those requests could be at least partially justified with some verse somewhere..
I think if that's how things really worked, the world would be even more of a nightmare.
So many requests ought not to be even asked in prayer.
the thing about believing is your have to believe it!
huh?
people filter life with what they know as truth.
what we truly believe is some deep stuff and it changes (hopefully) with education, and even if I dare say inspiration.
Jesus is the master teacher and he is the truth never having to deal with the pesky sin factor (lucky him huh?) i mean He was able to over ride his own mind and NOT think anything but truth his enitire life.
the rest of us can not. some are better at the manner of thoughts but we all struggle with what we truly believe inside in our core.
we are weak we are frail we are many thoughts that can damage us. at any given moment in time and that is all it takes.
so faith is different faith is trusting in what a LORD can do believing is what I can do.
i know a difference.
why are some prayers answered and some not? well it isnt about wants and needs so much for our own life it is about HIS good and will be done.
of course His will no one gets hurts BUT He God works with what he has.
any man or woman who states they have never had fear is a stone cold liar, we should be afraid life is an ordeal over and over again.
the hope is what we are going for really and so many times we lose that in our vision of what life is suppose to be and hold on to the wishful thinking.
I don't discount the merits of prayer, and believing as such, but I still think we were taught to boldly claim we were in New York when we were actually in Chicago.
I think psychiatrists have a name for people who do this on a continual basis. Especially if it doesn't produce results..
How many times have we prayed for someone's health, and shortly thereafter - without missing a beat in between - start praying to comfort the hearts of the relatives of the recently departed?
How many times have we prayed for someone's health, and shortly thereafter - without missing a beat in between - start praying to comfort the hearts of the relatives of the recently departed?
Many times I would be in challenging situations, (or in Wayish, having an opportunity to believe), and I would try to confide in what I thought would be a competent people. I would start explaining my situation, and almost every time, in the middle of my explanation they would interrupt and say "No, no. Don't confess a negative." As if stating the facts would make the situation worse.
So what I learned was to never tell anyone your problems and act like you're oblivious to them yourself. The key to your problems is to mentally act like everything is peachy, when everything ain't. (Oops! I just confessed a negative. Here cometh the Adversary!)
remember LCM's comment that no one should ever need to see a shrink because they should just be able to pray and believe all their problems away? now i understand why TWI is so anti-psychotherapy! heaven forbid we ever talk about our problems!
basically i grew-up with my parents telling me everyday that if i was feeling anxious or depressed it was because of my faulty believing. so not only did i feel like crap, but then i felt even crappier because i was such a crappy believer!
meanwhile my mother is thanking god for every stupid little green light and the parking space closest to the mall, because she is such a great believer.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
18
17
18
28
Popular Days
Jul 24
39
Jul 26
37
Jul 22
18
Jul 29
15
Top Posters In This Topic
Oakspear 18 posts
johniam 17 posts
J0nny Ling0 18 posts
Ham 28 posts
Popular Days
Jul 24 2007
39 posts
Jul 26 2007
37 posts
Jul 22 2007
18 posts
Jul 29 2007
15 posts
Jeaniam
It seems to me that attributing every evil event in a person's life to their 'believing' or lack thereof bypasses the reality of an adversary. John and I recently dealt with a situation involving a person with no insurance backing into our car. I take exception to the idea that our 'believing' caused the accident. We were also confronted with a friend of ours having a recurrance of cancer who underwent surgery rather than experiencing a supernatural healing. Some people would characterize this person as an 'inadequate believer', but I don't agree with that either. I think undergoing surgery indicates this person's resolve to be healed by whatever means are at their disposal.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
exwaycorps
exactly JEANIAM !!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
i don't really believe this law of believing
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Free Soul
I figure, if the rain falls on the just and the unjust, then stressing over why things happen is pointless. We are fallen people living in a fallen world, and .... happens!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
for some wierd reason, i have this thing called faith
nothing to do with that law of believing
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
When something bad happens to the mog or twi leadership.....its because the adversary is so mad that they've taken such a mighty stand on the Word and is fighting them via his many evil methods.
When something bad happens to the lowly believer or corps person.....its because he/she is NOT believing God and needs someone more "spiritual" to point it out to them
Oh.....I wonder if Dr. Wierwille was believing to die prematurely from cancer?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
maybe i was believing
oh i'm sorry i said that
i'll go mop the floor
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
The "Law" of Believing as practiced by TWI was circular reasoning.
Believing = Receiving
"But I believed and didn't receive!"
"Then you didn't really believe!"
Sure most of us can point to bible verses that say (or seem to say) believing = receiving, and many of us can dredge from our memory situations where we "believed" for something and received it, but the "Law" put us at the center of the universe, everything that happened to us was caused by our thoughts, so of course we had to be "reproved" when the bad things happened because, after all, we had caused them to occur!
Think about the pressure that we were under: every single thing that affected outr lives was under our control :o
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
exwaycorps
We had a very interesting discussion of this subject in late Jan. or early Feb.
dmiller started he topic and it spanned several pages.
I am not sure how to get you back there except to maybe look at topics that he initiated.
Sorry, I'm still kinda low-tech.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bumpy
Obviously, it's a NO win situation! Try playing golf and working that deal after each shot! Especially on the green
!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
I was just about to link this, when I saw your post. Thanks for the mention waysider. :)
THE LAW OF BELIEVING -- THE MOST INSIDIOUS TEACHING OF TWI
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
I used believing images of victory to overcome the law of believing…and when that didn’t work I resorted to positive affirmations.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
Where I find fault in the law of believing is the idea that you can manipulate reality. And by that I mean having a direct overriding influence on something or someone outside of myself. Even to say a Christian does this by petitioning God in prayer is a misunderstanding of prayer. It is not our prayers that accomplish anything but rather the God to whom we pray! Our faith merely submitting to our sovereign Lord…and in a sense humbly acknowledging a partnership with Him in our prayer or acts of faith.
In my opinion, what you believe shapes your mental map of reality. When I was in TWI, my mental map of reality was of downtown Oz but my feet were actually in Kansas. It makes a lot more sense to have the right map for where you want to go. Like Covey talks about in his 7 Habits book, using a map of downtown Manhattan will not help you at all in downtown Chicago. I agree with Covey when he says the closer our mental maps are to reality the more valuable they become.
Something we can control are our attitudes and actions – two dynamic factors that determine our accomplishments. Perhaps at a subconscious level they steer us to and prepare us for that which has occupied our thinking – like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Maybe there's a lot more going on in these "mental subroutines" than we're aware of, things like: determination, self reliance, persistence, good habits, hopeful, focused thinking, discipline - or - bad habits, fear of failure, self sabotage, scatterbrained, hopelessness, laziness.
TWI's fascination with the law of believing was seen as a shortcut to get what you want without having to do all the required work. I guess I'm old fashioned – I think success happens when opportunity and preparation converge. That translates to smart focused work and keeping an eye out for the opportune moment. TWI takes a wishful thinking approach – never earning a right to the payoff and hoping they can magically rig the game in their favor.
Edited by T-BoneLink to comment
Share on other sites
exwaycorps
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bramble
Blaming the believer started in PFAL
You know what killed that little boy!
Edited by BrambleLink to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
Many times I would be in challenging situations, (or in Wayish, having an opportunity to believe), and I would try to confide in what I thought would be a competent people. I would start explaining my situation, and almost every time, in the middle of my explanation they would interrupt and say "No, no. Don't confess a negative." As if stating the facts would make the situation worse.
So what I learned was to never tell anyone your problems and act like you're oblivious to them yourself. The key to your problems is to mentally act like everything is peachy, when everything ain't. (Oops! I just confessed a negative. Here cometh the Adversary!)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waytrix survivor
IT WAS ALL CIRCULAR LOGIC - A sealed system of it, like a bearing on an axel. The whole crock of crap was just an answer to it's own inevitable questions to the wrong answers that you'd been given to start with. Those questions were called an "unrenewed mind" by the way, in case you don't remember having them...
You went to twi for an abundant life, but inevitably, and invariably if no abundant life came unto you - it was your fault. There was no other answer possible - the default was set to "it's the believer's fault", and the default was NEVER changed. The fact that your life was still sucky in any way wasn't the "consequences" either, because the real "consequeces" were always left as a possibility that assuredly WOULD come if you left twi: posession!
But you wanted to stay... because: no one IN twi was ever possessed - unless it was convenient and they had already been, or were just about to be "cleaned out" - because possession was the fear specifically designed to keep you IN!
Which was fine with you. You wanted to stay in, because you just knew you were right on the verge of the abundant life... if you could JUST renew your freakin' mind to BELIEVE that eating balogne on white bread and not owning a car was abundance, while you were giving 23% of your income to twi.
What you believe IS important! If there's a law of believing, it would certainly have to be closer to the above... heck the law of believing itself may even be 100% dead on - but the point is - it was severely misused for the gain of our old evil taskmasters.
A hammer is not wrong on its own - but when taken from the box, and used to work on the windows - it can become very destructive.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
J0nny Ling0
"And all things whatsoever you shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive".
Well now, Jesus spoke those words, and I believe them. Does that mean "believing equals receiving"? I don't know. Is this "The Law Of Believing"? I don't know. But Jesus said that if you believe when you pray, you shall (absolute tense) receive. I believe that. And so, people have asked here recently in another thread, "why would God answer one person's prayer, but not another persons?" I don't know. But, if what Jesus said was/is true, then I am willing to give God the benefit of the doubt, and suspect that the problem with the unanswered prayer came about because of some problem on the part of the human, and not because God was "being quirky". The thing that I have always enjoyed about God's Word is that it has always been a ROCK for me. Something that never changes, is always there, and always dependable. And I have always been willing to say, if things are going in a negative manner, it's gotta be me, and not Him, for God is perfect, and I definitely am not.
On the other hand, I have seen extraordinary results in my life due to prayer when I have prayed with this verse in mind. Once, when I was a WOW, I prayed specifically for a car, because my "piece of sheet car" was broken down, and we needed a car to get around South Central L.A. Within the week, I invited a guy to twig, who came, and when twig was over and he had learned that our car wasn't working (because he'd asked for a ride and we couldn't give him one), he offered to give me a car that he had. He gave me the keys right there on the spot. And, it was a 67 Buick Wildcat with a 430 C.I. engine with a four barrel carburetor, air conditioning, electric seats, electric windows, whitewall tires, dual exhaust, and, it had a very nice gold paint job. The day I drove it home, I took him and my WOW family cruising on the Sunset Strip and Hollywood Boulevard. We had a blast. We called it our "Ephesians 3:20 Car". And, I had spoken aloud throughout the time after I prayed for it that "it will be great to be driving that car God is going to supply for me". And, it happened sure as you're born. It was a trip man, and we were all blown away by it and it totally boosted our moral and our confidence in God and His Son Jesus Christ.
And so, was that "The Law Of Believing"? I dunno. I thought so then, but today I don't know what you'd "label" it. Was it believing equals receiving?" Again, I dunno. I believed that then though. But maybe I don't call it that today. Haven't thought of that "label" in a long time, really. But, am I happy to have learned that I could pray like that? Yes I am, and I endeavor to pray like that to this day. I am glad to have learned that while I was in The Way. And, there are numerous verses of Scripture where Jesus talks about how faith and believing is in fact a pre-requisite to getting prayers answered. I dunno what we should label it, but, I am thankful to have had that pointed out to me.
Now, some may think that I am being a "Way apologist" here, but I am not. Some may say; "Well, you could have learned that many other places". And this is true, but let's not get off the track, for we are not talking about that, really. I think we are talking about this TWI labeled "Law" of believing. I don't know what to call it once again, but the Bible is loaded with many specific instructions that if we are to receive, we must first believe. It's pretty straight forward, really. And there are numerous examples in the Bible of that same pre-requisite to receiving things from God. The gospels are loaded with examples as Jesus himself demonstrated. And that, I can trust. I can't trust myself, but I can trust God's Word to be true, and that gives me great hope and comfort. Anyway, food for thought... :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
I think part of the human problem was man trying to define God's "end of the deal", practically to the extent that we thought he was some kind of Santa Claus machine.
ANYTHING you want, anytime.. if "whatsoever" really means "whatsoever", in an all inclusive sense.
Find a bible verse to justify asking for the front parking spot in front of the store..
Well. I want a dog, a cat, a pony.. gimme a Harley, a few hundred pounds of gold bullion.. and any one of those requests could be at least partially justified with some verse somewhere..
I think if that's how things really worked, the world would be even more of a nightmare.
So many requests ought not to be even asked in prayer.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pond
the thing about believing is your have to believe it!
huh?
people filter life with what they know as truth.
what we truly believe is some deep stuff and it changes (hopefully) with education, and even if I dare say inspiration.
Jesus is the master teacher and he is the truth never having to deal with the pesky sin factor (lucky him huh?) i mean He was able to over ride his own mind and NOT think anything but truth his enitire life.
the rest of us can not. some are better at the manner of thoughts but we all struggle with what we truly believe inside in our core.
we are weak we are frail we are many thoughts that can damage us. at any given moment in time and that is all it takes.
so faith is different faith is trusting in what a LORD can do believing is what I can do.
i know a difference.
why are some prayers answered and some not? well it isnt about wants and needs so much for our own life it is about HIS good and will be done.
of course His will no one gets hurts BUT He God works with what he has.
any man or woman who states they have never had fear is a stone cold liar, we should be afraid life is an ordeal over and over again.
the hope is what we are going for really and so many times we lose that in our vision of what life is suppose to be and hold on to the wishful thinking.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
I don't discount the merits of prayer, and believing as such, but I still think we were taught to boldly claim we were in New York when we were actually in Chicago.
I think psychiatrists have a name for people who do this on a continual basis. Especially if it doesn't produce results..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
George Aar
"I don't discount the merits of prayer"
I do. I think it's an utter waste of time.
How many times have we prayed for someone's health, and shortly thereafter - without missing a beat in between - start praying to comfort the hearts of the relatives of the recently departed?
O.K., I'll leave now...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
reasonable observation.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
minicorpse
remember LCM's comment that no one should ever need to see a shrink because they should just be able to pray and believe all their problems away? now i understand why TWI is so anti-psychotherapy! heaven forbid we ever talk about our problems!
basically i grew-up with my parents telling me everyday that if i was feeling anxious or depressed it was because of my faulty believing. so not only did i feel like crap, but then i felt even crappier because i was such a crappy believer!
meanwhile my mother is thanking god for every stupid little green light and the parking space closest to the mall, because she is such a great believer.
what a crock.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.