Does anybody find it ironic how obsessively twi so carefully stewarded and cared for the posessions, the buildings, the grounds, the equipment ...to the point of being rediculously anal...and yet they had so very little regard for the people in their custody and care.
As I see it, this is the heart of the matter. TWI (aka VPW & co) cared more for things than people.
Money. It would have cost money to transport us to LEAD. Sure I learned things at LEAD and hitching to and from Rome City twice. I don't begrudge anyone telling of their positive experiences at LEAD or anywhere else. I had positive experiences during my 13 years in twi because God was able to reach into that stinking mess and bless me at times, just like He was able to bless many of you. I believe the blessings we received were in spite of vpw's decisions...certainly not because of them.
johniam:
nothing much bad ever happened to me
Had someone's WOW money with me so of course God made sure I got there OK.
WTF??? Do you really realize how this sounds?
warning...I'm goint to get graphic to illustrate my point:
What if a trucker had "violated" your hairy co^n #ole (vpw's word...CF&S) during one of your hitching adventures? Do you think possibly you might see things in a little different light?
I have a REAL problem with the people who suffered being deemed unworthey of God`s time, attention, protection etc....but that because somebody was carrying some cashola, that God would see THEM through :(
Elisa was the first Outward Bound student to die in almost a decade and the 24th fatality in the nonprofit's 46-year history in the U.S. (most of those deaths occurred prior to 1980).
SO - this tells me that changes were made after 1980...
BUT - if you read the whole article you can see the Outward Bound has gotten a bit full of itself as well.
They are wrong. TWI had safety measures they could have cleaned up - especially the hitchiking requirement. (Yes I know that has been covered.)
I am just trying to say that "$ hit Happens" when human beings are involved, that's all. When we get all the humans out of all human activities, we will not have humans being hurt.
And Tonto! Ugghh! That was disgusting! And, I don't remember that from CF and S. Was it really there, and I just don't remember it? Uggh?
The reocurring theme that was underlying to all of twi's indoctrination..."believing equals receiving"...the catch 22. Failure means that you didn't believe, it was YOUR fault...if "nothing went wrong", then you are one of us, you are a "believer". Halleleujah brother!!! :wacko: What a tremendous working tool...think about it...if what we teach, fails to deliver, it was YOUR fault.
Lead was the extreme application of this sinister doctrine...the doctrine which promulgated the concept of "power of the mind". It is up to YOU to provoke and prod the Almighty into action...His right hand of blessing has been handcuffed until YOU allow Him to take off the handcuffs...and it's the "power in your mind" that is the catalyst to this spiritual unleashing.
Of course it doesn't work...we don't get to pick and choose with our "believing power"...that's unbiblical and utter nonsense...but yet, twi put people's lives at risk based on this cockamamie idea....and if you fell to your death or got raped in a car...it was YOUR fault, our hands are clean...and that's the way it worked. Cold, calculated, mechanical, and heartless. No compassion, no godly sorrow, no love...it was a formula.
So...if you had a good time on "lead"....good for you...you may think that you worked the magic formula of "believing" and therefore the Almighty reached down and touched you in a wonderful way...and those who died or were hurt...it was their own fault...BUT please excuse those of us who do not believe in your magic formula...who view those who were hurt with compassion and with anger towards those who truly failed, who allowed these things to happen.
As far as you being "blessed" with your experience...I think more of it, as you being LUCKY!!!
The reocurring theme that was underlying to all of twi's indoctrination..."believing equals receiving"...the catch 22. Failure means that you didn't believe, it was YOUR fault...if "nothing went wrong", then you are one of us, you are a "believer". Halleleujah brother!!! :wacko: What a tremendous working tool...think about it...if what we teach, fails to deliver, it was YOUR fault.
Lead was the extreme application of this sinister doctrine...the doctrine which promulgated the concept of "power of the mind". It is up to YOU to provoke and prod the Almighty into action...His right hand of blessing has been handcuffed until YOU allow Him to take off the handcuffs...and it's the "power in your mind" that is the catalyst to this spiritual unleashing.
There you have it...........corps folks.
When going inresidence corps, one of the first series of classes we took was pfal......again. Uuuugh. Doncha know that this "believing equals receiving" dogma was book-knowledge, spiritual smarts to all who crossed over the threshold of the corps program.
And, to bookend the extreme application of vicster's doctrine (aka "the law of believing) was the LEAD experiment, er experience.....with final grades being given out by the LEAD staff, and footnoted with the corps coordinator's comments. This, in turn, validated your "believing" status......and certified that you were the real deal, with corps diploma soon-in-hand.
For all intents and purposes, the LEAD experience was a corps requirement.......reaching higher certifiable status than one's research paper. In this manner, the MOG and company held full control as to whether (or NOT) you were BELIEVING and OBEDIENT to the parameters of the hitchhiking/LEAD/money returned guidelines of the LEAD experience.
I did not like LEAD because I am not an outdoors person. I do not like bugs, snakes, the heat or getting dirty.
I like nail polish, shopping, cool looking shoes and air conditioning. I like to draw, sing, act and write. I do not garden, as I have no interest in getting dirty.
So, for me it was not fun.
However, in the middle of not bathing, having bugs on me, and hoping my hutch did not draw snakes, there were some kind and loving times between the corps that was there. I enjoyed the love that pulsed between us.
I was lucky as I asked NOT to go my final year and I got out of it. And on my first year, I kindly went to my “leader” and told him I did not like to climb and I really did not want to do it anymore. So, I repelled once and climbed once. And after I asked, I kept my mouth shut and did not have to do anymore climbs. Thank God!
So...if you had a good time on "lead"....good for you...you may think that you worked the magic formula of "believing" and therefore the Almighty reached down and touched you in a wonderful way...and those who died or were hurt...it was their own fault...BUT please excuse those of us who do not believe in your magic formula...who view those who were hurt with compassion and with anger towards those who truly failed, who allowed these things to happen.
As far as you being "blessed" with your experience...I think more of it, as you being LUCKY!!!
I really didn't want to address you but wtf. I do not begin to accuse ones that were hurt or killed as not believing or negatively believing or any of the other stock phrases leadership used against us. And I 100% agree that after the first incident of serious injury or rape or of course death that the program should have been stopped in its tracks and if continued done in a way where the risk factors were removed. You didn't have to climb or repel to know how to live according to God's will. That can't be backed up in the word. The closest is in speaking of treating your tabernacle (earthly body) with respect for your benefit not for another's. So my coming into this thread in the first place was not to praise the LEAD program but to acknowledge that regardless of the program, event, class or whatever it was if someone comes in and says they had some good experiences or they still cherish something they were taught (that was right on) then more times than not they are made to feel as if they should be ashamed of themselves that they dare speak of something positive. But if they come in and tell of their horrors and speak as if from day one of being introduced to twi it was nothing but one huge nightmare, but h3ll they joined the corps and stayed around for 10, 20 years but dagnabit it was pure h3ll the whole time then this person is embraced.
How is my hiding my joyful times because you had a bad time going to profit either of us. I guess the saying miserable comforters would be one way, yet there is no profit there, if it aids at all it is incredibly temporary and does not help the one hurt to move away from the memories and pain. It instead teaches bitterness and continues to open the wound and pour salt into it.
I can tell you a hundred different ways that someone has had to endure tragedy and heartache. So am I to stop living for them? And I to carry their pain and give up what times of joy I have had? Is that the way people are to live their lives?
Who of you can reply back to me that I continue to cry of my experiential monsters I faced my entire life? Who? Can one of you say oh yes Kathy you wear your misery quite well dear?
Knowing that NO ONE can reply to that I now ask you why can I not be replied to? Because I had roses and peaches my whole life? Yeah right! Or because I have some special link to God that no one else has? Yeah right! Or that I live a cushy life so it helps erase all the pain I've experienced? Yeah right!
I do not continue to repeat the same thing over and over because IT PROFITS ME NONE. It keeps me in bondage. It keeps the wounds open. Who is worthy of my continuing to live miserably? If God does not ask me to live that way then who has the authority to ask that of me? NO ONE that is who.
People come here for many reasons. I think many come for answers and healing. But there are some here who welcome them one day then the next day when they dare speak positively about something that one of our brothers in Christ speak of their horrors regarding then they are made to be ashamed they don't go out to the wailing wall and get on their knees and ask for forgiveness that they dared to speak of a positive experience.
That is just wrong. No matter how you slice it, it is wrong.
I know that many good experiences were had by many people in TWI. I also know that for many people, those many good times were sullied by one or two bad experiences. (I may be wrong but, I'm guessing that getting raped outdid any good that a woman may have had up to then, and for some women made it harder to see good after that experience.
There's a reason why we left TWI. The unraveling of that noose is not easy to do when you have so many people with such a wide range of experiences.
I experientially know rape in the way and how it can cause you to put a gun in your mouth. But you see my dear Dooj, I also experientially understand survival beyond it also and one that even includes thankfulness for the good that I gained while there. And I am not special, not unique in any way so I know it can be done and I know that it has allowed me to still have some tenderness towards others. Tenderness that is real, not forced. And I will not give up that to become bitter because a sister or brother has had a bad, even rape, experience because ones life does not consist of only a time in life. It consists of many times in ones life. Its not cruel hearted to hold onto the good, nor is it betrayal.
We all left twi for a reason and thank God we did. But we don't aid all that come here by telling them they really had no good experiences while in twi, we don't aid them at all.
And thank you for replying to me. It speaks highly of you.
Wow, Kathy awesome post, really. It's kind of like; "If you spout all of the horrors that you endured, "Welcome to the Club." And if you do not, but speak of the positive times, it's like "Shut up! Get out of here! You are pi$$ing on our pity parade! You are ruining our "work" here!"
And, like I said before, I know that there were negative aspects of The Way, some of which resulted in down right tragedies. I acknowledge that to be sure. But I also think that there were some very fine things that came my way during my tenure in The Way. And about those, I will speak. And, I have spoken of a number of the things that were incredibly negative and hurtful to me. But maybe those things aren't remembered, because the positive aspects that I have related are way more hated here by SOME, than the negative situations I have spoke of which are simply "embraced". Geez, there just has to be something really twisted about that scenario. "Pee on the positive, and embrace the negative". Maybe there really is something wrong with our "scale of values....."
I've never said my experience in TWi was pure hell. I was in for twenty years. But much of that time was striving for a false standard of abundant life and never making the mark--or perhaps fleetingly, here and there. Good dog. Here's a treat.
And while I was busy going about my little way believer life, others were being subjected to hellish experiences, like some on lead had, much of which I didn't know about until many years later. Though I did know of some pretty ugly lead experiences in the early eighties, which always made me hesitate to go corps. But, see, I'd heard them, and they set a red flag inside.
One was my husband--he was a wow in my home town, and apprentice corps. The big dog corps in the area gave him and another apprentice guy a lead-like challenge--to swim the local river--prove their believing.
Having grown up in that town I new it was a Really Bad Idea--the river had steep banks because it was deep and fast. Steep banks are not like a nice sandy beach--they are hard to climb to get out of the current. Drownings happened. They were being put in danger.
Hubby didn't even try to go to mid river--he was smart. The other guy did--he got swept away but managed to make it to a shallow area a ways down river. Man what great believing. Guess which guy got the slap down and which guy got the praise? And hubby and I bought that for many years.
And while I could pat myself on the back for my believing, recount all my great times, the truth , seen many years later with the TWI blinders off, is--I was no better or more beloved than those people were. A few changes of circumstance or a few decisions down the road, and I could have been one of those people--or someone else I loved could have been.
There was a pattern of uncaring challenges seen in a dozen different ways ( sell your house!)throughout my time in TWI--which I was too blind to see--Those people didn't didn't believe.
It doesn't mean people didn't have good times--but boy howdy, if something bad did happen, there was no help or compassion. That believer was tainted with unbelief. Some got the kick when they were down--it was a pattern, and the law of believing and obeying leadership played a huge part
It doesn't mean people didn't have good times--but boy howdy, if something bad did happen, there was no help or compassion. That believer was tainted with unbelief. Some got the kick when they were down--it was a pattern, and the law of believing and obeying leadership played a huge part
I suspect that some are biting their tongues to point out to me how I came in here July of 2002 and cried of my loneliness after walking away from a life I had known for close to 20 years and see poof while nearly all my friends were gone.
I spoke of their evil ways and was obviously a very broken person. I was embraced and aided and it was a healing balm unto my soul. But I was also allowed to speak of the things I still held precious while in the way. Why I don't know, I use to think because I was friends with John and Hope and that the respect towards them extended to me. I just know I was not beaten on when I shared the positive.
But things have changed and that is not extended to more than a few new folks that crossed our path. They also didn't stay long and that is sad, they could have been helped with the rich experience and helpful knowledge this group holds.
My thinking runs differently than yours on this incident.
I shall elaborate.
I appreciate that.
First of all, I shall agree with you on one particular: the driver of the vehicle is responsible for the safe operation of the vehicle he is operating. Therefore, the driver, in this case, is at least partly to blame.
Before you can blame anyone else you would have to know if anyone else asked or demanded that he do the evaluation WHILE driving the vehicle. If he was expected to do the evaluation by a certain time then itwas poor planning of HIS time.
Now, let's look at the conditions BEFORE the driver enters the picture.
I remember when I went out WOW that I was told that I had to carry auto insurance or I would not be allowed to go. If I recall they (TWI) had it set up with a local insurance agent to process coverage needed. Now I had a choice to make -- Do I forget about going WOW or bite the bullet and pay for the insurance that they required before being permitted? I chose the latter. I never needed to make a claim but, as someone else pointed out -- shlt happens.
A) twiarticipants, why do some of us insist that twi was responsible?
It's easier to blame someone else for your own stupidity. No, I don't see why some of you insist that twi was responsible for what you choose to do. Fear of repercussions is no excuse for doing something which you believe is unsafe. I personally think anyone who puts their life and limb in jeopardy by climbing a mountain a bit nuts. But then, maybe if I climbed one I might have a different opinion.
BTW, this is a long post. Despite that, it has substance. Some people will have no difficulty seeing that.
Sure it has substance. I can see that. But even a shorter post can have substance. I personally prefer using less words and hopefully can make a point that others can have no difficulty in seeing. They can always ask me to clarify something if they don't.
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tonto
Rascal said:
As I see it, this is the heart of the matter. TWI (aka VPW & co) cared more for things than people.Money. It would have cost money to transport us to LEAD. Sure I learned things at LEAD and hitching to and from Rome City twice. I don't begrudge anyone telling of their positive experiences at LEAD or anywhere else. I had positive experiences during my 13 years in twi because God was able to reach into that stinking mess and bless me at times, just like He was able to bless many of you. I believe the blessings we received were in spite of vpw's decisions...certainly not because of them.
johniam:
WTF??? Do you really realize how this sounds?
warning...I'm goint to get graphic to illustrate my point:
What if a trucker had "violated" your hairy co^n #ole (vpw's word...CF&S) during one of your hitching adventures? Do you think possibly you might see things in a little different light?
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rascal
Yeah, God took care of YOU for the wow money. He couldn`t be bothered to prevent the rape and loss of life :(
Some how those who were violated were unworthey of God`s protection....grrrrr
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rascal
I have a REAL problem with the people who suffered being deemed unworthey of God`s time, attention, protection etc....but that because somebody was carrying some cashola, that God would see THEM through :(
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J0nny Ling0
I am just trying to say that "$ hit Happens" when human beings are involved, that's all. When we get all the humans out of all human activities, we will not have humans being hurt.
And Tonto! Ugghh! That was disgusting! And, I don't remember that from CF and S. Was it really there, and I just don't remember it? Uggh?
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GrouchoMarxJr
The reocurring theme that was underlying to all of twi's indoctrination..."believing equals receiving"...the catch 22. Failure means that you didn't believe, it was YOUR fault...if "nothing went wrong", then you are one of us, you are a "believer". Halleleujah brother!!! :wacko: What a tremendous working tool...think about it...if what we teach, fails to deliver, it was YOUR fault.
Lead was the extreme application of this sinister doctrine...the doctrine which promulgated the concept of "power of the mind". It is up to YOU to provoke and prod the Almighty into action...His right hand of blessing has been handcuffed until YOU allow Him to take off the handcuffs...and it's the "power in your mind" that is the catalyst to this spiritual unleashing.
Of course it doesn't work...we don't get to pick and choose with our "believing power"...that's unbiblical and utter nonsense...but yet, twi put people's lives at risk based on this cockamamie idea....and if you fell to your death or got raped in a car...it was YOUR fault, our hands are clean...and that's the way it worked. Cold, calculated, mechanical, and heartless. No compassion, no godly sorrow, no love...it was a formula.
So...if you had a good time on "lead"....good for you...you may think that you worked the magic formula of "believing" and therefore the Almighty reached down and touched you in a wonderful way...and those who died or were hurt...it was their own fault...BUT please excuse those of us who do not believe in your magic formula...who view those who were hurt with compassion and with anger towards those who truly failed, who allowed these things to happen.
As far as you being "blessed" with your experience...I think more of it, as you being LUCKY!!!
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excathedra
i'm thinking lucky too
forget about god blessing anyone
guess why i had such a good experience ? i was young, in shape, and i kissed a$$ so there
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J0nny Ling0
...this sinister doctrine..
And Jesus said;
"And all things whatsoever you ask in prayer, believing, you shall receive".
I like Jesus and his words.
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excathedra
too bad jesus didn't like your friends
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J0nny Ling0
What friends?
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excathedra
corps brothers and sisters, what have you.....
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skyrider
There you have it...........corps folks.
When going inresidence corps, one of the first series of classes we took was pfal......again. Uuuugh. Doncha know that this "believing equals receiving" dogma was book-knowledge, spiritual smarts to all who crossed over the threshold of the corps program.
And, to bookend the extreme application of vicster's doctrine (aka "the law of believing) was the LEAD experiment, er experience.....with final grades being given out by the LEAD staff, and footnoted with the corps coordinator's comments. This, in turn, validated your "believing" status......and certified that you were the real deal, with corps diploma soon-in-hand.
For all intents and purposes, the LEAD experience was a corps requirement.......reaching higher certifiable status than one's research paper. In this manner, the MOG and company held full control as to whether (or NOT) you were BELIEVING and OBEDIENT to the parameters of the hitchhiking/LEAD/money returned guidelines of the LEAD experience.
<_<
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Dot Matrix
I did not like LEAD because I am not an outdoors person. I do not like bugs, snakes, the heat or getting dirty.
I like nail polish, shopping, cool looking shoes and air conditioning. I like to draw, sing, act and write. I do not garden, as I have no interest in getting dirty.
So, for me it was not fun.
However, in the middle of not bathing, having bugs on me, and hoping my hutch did not draw snakes, there were some kind and loving times between the corps that was there. I enjoyed the love that pulsed between us.
I was lucky as I asked NOT to go my final year and I got out of it. And on my first year, I kindly went to my “leader” and told him I did not like to climb and I really did not want to do it anymore. So, I repelled once and climbed once. And after I asked, I kept my mouth shut and did not have to do anymore climbs. Thank God!
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Bramble
Gag me.
So the young raped ladies, dead man, the injured ,should have believed bigger, like the unscathed did?
Condemned by Jesus himself. Because sure, believing can control the unsafe, uncaring actions of others, too!
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ChattyKathy
I really didn't want to address you but wtf. I do not begin to accuse ones that were hurt or killed as not believing or negatively believing or any of the other stock phrases leadership used against us. And I 100% agree that after the first incident of serious injury or rape or of course death that the program should have been stopped in its tracks and if continued done in a way where the risk factors were removed. You didn't have to climb or repel to know how to live according to God's will. That can't be backed up in the word. The closest is in speaking of treating your tabernacle (earthly body) with respect for your benefit not for another's. So my coming into this thread in the first place was not to praise the LEAD program but to acknowledge that regardless of the program, event, class or whatever it was if someone comes in and says they had some good experiences or they still cherish something they were taught (that was right on) then more times than not they are made to feel as if they should be ashamed of themselves that they dare speak of something positive. But if they come in and tell of their horrors and speak as if from day one of being introduced to twi it was nothing but one huge nightmare, but h3ll they joined the corps and stayed around for 10, 20 years but dagnabit it was pure h3ll the whole time then this person is embraced.
How is my hiding my joyful times because you had a bad time going to profit either of us. I guess the saying miserable comforters would be one way, yet there is no profit there, if it aids at all it is incredibly temporary and does not help the one hurt to move away from the memories and pain. It instead teaches bitterness and continues to open the wound and pour salt into it.
I can tell you a hundred different ways that someone has had to endure tragedy and heartache. So am I to stop living for them? And I to carry their pain and give up what times of joy I have had? Is that the way people are to live their lives?
Who of you can reply back to me that I continue to cry of my experiential monsters I faced my entire life? Who? Can one of you say oh yes Kathy you wear your misery quite well dear?
Knowing that NO ONE can reply to that I now ask you why can I not be replied to? Because I had roses and peaches my whole life? Yeah right! Or because I have some special link to God that no one else has? Yeah right! Or that I live a cushy life so it helps erase all the pain I've experienced? Yeah right!
I do not continue to repeat the same thing over and over because IT PROFITS ME NONE. It keeps me in bondage. It keeps the wounds open. Who is worthy of my continuing to live miserably? If God does not ask me to live that way then who has the authority to ask that of me? NO ONE that is who.
People come here for many reasons. I think many come for answers and healing. But there are some here who welcome them one day then the next day when they dare speak positively about something that one of our brothers in Christ speak of their horrors regarding then they are made to be ashamed they don't go out to the wailing wall and get on their knees and ask for forgiveness that they dared to speak of a positive experience.
That is just wrong. No matter how you slice it, it is wrong.
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act2
Hello, Kathy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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ChattyKathy
Hi dear one.
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doojable
Kathy, I see your point.
I know that many good experiences were had by many people in TWI. I also know that for many people, those many good times were sullied by one or two bad experiences. (I may be wrong but, I'm guessing that getting raped outdid any good that a woman may have had up to then, and for some women made it harder to see good after that experience.
There's a reason why we left TWI. The unraveling of that noose is not easy to do when you have so many people with such a wide range of experiences.
I hope I've made myself a bit more clear.
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ChattyKathy
I experientially know rape in the way and how it can cause you to put a gun in your mouth. But you see my dear Dooj, I also experientially understand survival beyond it also and one that even includes thankfulness for the good that I gained while there. And I am not special, not unique in any way so I know it can be done and I know that it has allowed me to still have some tenderness towards others. Tenderness that is real, not forced. And I will not give up that to become bitter because a sister or brother has had a bad, even rape, experience because ones life does not consist of only a time in life. It consists of many times in ones life. Its not cruel hearted to hold onto the good, nor is it betrayal.
We all left twi for a reason and thank God we did. But we don't aid all that come here by telling them they really had no good experiences while in twi, we don't aid them at all.
And thank you for replying to me. It speaks highly of you.
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J0nny Ling0
Wow, Kathy awesome post, really. It's kind of like; "If you spout all of the horrors that you endured, "Welcome to the Club." And if you do not, but speak of the positive times, it's like "Shut up! Get out of here! You are pi$$ing on our pity parade! You are ruining our "work" here!"
And, like I said before, I know that there were negative aspects of The Way, some of which resulted in down right tragedies. I acknowledge that to be sure. But I also think that there were some very fine things that came my way during my tenure in The Way. And about those, I will speak. And, I have spoken of a number of the things that were incredibly negative and hurtful to me. But maybe those things aren't remembered, because the positive aspects that I have related are way more hated here by SOME, than the negative situations I have spoke of which are simply "embraced". Geez, there just has to be something really twisted about that scenario. "Pee on the positive, and embrace the negative". Maybe there really is something wrong with our "scale of values....."
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dmiller
I don't hate anyone here --- regardless of what they post. :)
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Bramble
I've never said my experience in TWi was pure hell. I was in for twenty years. But much of that time was striving for a false standard of abundant life and never making the mark--or perhaps fleetingly, here and there. Good dog. Here's a treat.
And while I was busy going about my little way believer life, others were being subjected to hellish experiences, like some on lead had, much of which I didn't know about until many years later. Though I did know of some pretty ugly lead experiences in the early eighties, which always made me hesitate to go corps. But, see, I'd heard them, and they set a red flag inside.
One was my husband--he was a wow in my home town, and apprentice corps. The big dog corps in the area gave him and another apprentice guy a lead-like challenge--to swim the local river--prove their believing.
Having grown up in that town I new it was a Really Bad Idea--the river had steep banks because it was deep and fast. Steep banks are not like a nice sandy beach--they are hard to climb to get out of the current. Drownings happened. They were being put in danger.
Hubby didn't even try to go to mid river--he was smart. The other guy did--he got swept away but managed to make it to a shallow area a ways down river. Man what great believing. Guess which guy got the slap down and which guy got the praise? And hubby and I bought that for many years.
And while I could pat myself on the back for my believing, recount all my great times, the truth , seen many years later with the TWI blinders off, is--I was no better or more beloved than those people were. A few changes of circumstance or a few decisions down the road, and I could have been one of those people--or someone else I loved could have been.
There was a pattern of uncaring challenges seen in a dozen different ways ( sell your house!)throughout my time in TWI--which I was too blind to see--Those people didn't didn't believe.
It doesn't mean people didn't have good times--but boy howdy, if something bad did happen, there was no help or compassion. That believer was tainted with unbelief. Some got the kick when they were down--it was a pattern, and the law of believing and obeying leadership played a huge part
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dmiller
And THAT was the crux of the problem.
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ChattyKathy
I suspect that some are biting their tongues to point out to me how I came in here July of 2002 and cried of my loneliness after walking away from a life I had known for close to 20 years and see poof while nearly all my friends were gone.
I spoke of their evil ways and was obviously a very broken person. I was embraced and aided and it was a healing balm unto my soul. But I was also allowed to speak of the things I still held precious while in the way. Why I don't know, I use to think because I was friends with John and Hope and that the respect towards them extended to me. I just know I was not beaten on when I shared the positive.
But things have changed and that is not extended to more than a few new folks that crossed our path. They also didn't stay long and that is sad, they could have been helped with the rich experience and helpful knowledge this group holds.
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Larry N Moore
I appreciate that.
Before you can blame anyone else you would have to know if anyone else asked or demanded that he do the evaluation WHILE driving the vehicle. If he was expected to do the evaluation by a certain time then itwas poor planning of HIS time.I remember when I went out WOW that I was told that I had to carry auto insurance or I would not be allowed to go. If I recall they (TWI) had it set up with a local insurance agent to process coverage needed. Now I had a choice to make -- Do I forget about going WOW or bite the bullet and pay for the insurance that they required before being permitted? I chose the latter. I never needed to make a claim but, as someone else pointed out -- shlt happens.
It's easier to blame someone else for your own stupidity. No, I don't see why some of you insist that twi was responsible for what you choose to do. Fear of repercussions is no excuse for doing something which you believe is unsafe. I personally think anyone who puts their life and limb in jeopardy by climbing a mountain a bit nuts. But then, maybe if I climbed one I might have a different opinion.Sure it has substance. I can see that. But even a shorter post can have substance. I personally prefer using less words and hopefully can make a point that others can have no difficulty in seeing. They can always ask me to clarify something if they don't.
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