real people died, real people got raped, real people had toes cut off, real people took their own lives, real people got HURT
Yes, and this happens everyday in America and across the world. People get hit by cars, killed in car wrecks. A young girl had her feet cut off riding the "Superman" ride at a Six Flags America amusement park just last week or so. Sick men rape women and even little children it seems every single day. I know it seems wrong to mention anything positive here about one's experiences in The Way, or on LEAD as in this case, for it seems to divert from the status quo. But, if positive things happened to me and others, I think that people like Hooner deserve to see both sides of the story. And I know many many who outright loved their time on LEAD and are thankful for the life's lessons learned. I chalk up that arrogance that Out There speaks of as just plain "youthful arrogance", novices lifted up with pride, and mistakenly placed in that position of leadership. For, the folks who ran the sessions when I went LEAD were kind hearted and very heartsy. They had the individual students best interest in in their hearts and genuinely helped them out, me included. And so Hooner, there were good things about it to be sure. And, there were also bad things about it too. Certain people simply should not have been in place as instructors. Certain people should not have bee required to go LEAD. In my opinion, LEAD should have been like the rodeo school thing, where it was optional for those who wanted the challenge. And yet, when I went into The Way Corps, I did it with my eyes open. I knew about LEAD as part of the program (and the hitch hiking part too), I knew that I would be challenged to work hard all day, stay up late studying, eat less than I normally did, run and get aerobics points, and study the Bible lots. And so, I went in knowing that it would be very hard for this lazy boy here, but, I also had the attitude of "bring it on, I want it, that's why I'm here". But that was just me. But I don't think I was alone....
Hey Excie, I have no idea why things happen to some and not others. I have heard over and over in the "regular Christian world" of people praying and getting desired results, and of people in their same churches praying and then the "prayed for one" dies. I know that in these horrible kidnap cases, many horrified parents pray, only to have their child's body found somewhere. And yet there are those few cases when the child is rescued alive, and the parents go on record as saying something like "We never lost our Faith that God would bring our child home alive. We never gave up hope". And I think to myself when I read of these things; "Geez, I wonder what the other parents whose children were killed think when they hear of this?" And so shoot, I just don't see those bad things that happened on LEAD as a whole lot different than so many terrible things that happen in this old world. Why do these things happen? I don't know. But all of the blame, well, I just don't know. It just seems fruitless to spend so much time "blaming"...
I see your point about bad things happening .----------I really do.
And, I agree with a good deal of it.
But, the point is, that after some of these bad things happened, upper leadership should have reevaluated whether the benefits outweighed the risks.
Even if you take the ethical, emotional, spiritual aspect out of the formula, it doesn't make good business sense to continue on in the fashion which they did when they knew the potential for disaster.
They acted irresponsibly(IMO) by continuing to march forward when it was demonstrated to them that this was not a wise course of action.
They(upper TWI management) turned a blind eye to how continuation of this program could have seriously adverse effects for some participants, even though there were obviously some who reaped benefits.
It was another example of the "one size fits all" approach that TWI liked to take.
As a leader, you need to find people's strong suits and give them challenges that will help them more fully develop them.
For some, that may be physical challenge.
For others, that may be a challenge to grow artistically.
Point is--------One shoe doesn't fit everybody.
Maybe there was a moral lesson in Cinderella, after all.
Waysider, I agree with everything you said. I just pointed out the positive aspects that I derived from the program, and I am glad I had that opportunity. Yet, I suppose that if they had shut the program down before Kenny Bardin was killed (which was before I went LEAD), we might still have Kenny Bardin around today. But I also see that "regular life" (life outside TWI) is filled with all kinds of tragedy also. Life is weird I guess...
Yes, some of us had great experiences - and I can chalk that up to it being that some of us were meant to do those things.
We were told in PFAL, "If God wants you to know something He'll tell YOU first." Yet, in residence we weren't told to go ask God if we should go do such and such. This would have been some real spiritual training, IMHO. We were TOLD what we ALL would be doing.
And yet, we went into the Corps training program knowing that we were supposed to do as we were told. We volunteered. In the United States Military, the same approach is expected. If a person wants to go to West Point, Annapolis, or, the United States Merchant Marine Academy (a place dear to my heart), you are told what to do for your training. And if you don't do it, you are either out of there, or worse, punished with cruel physical punishment like extra and grueling calisthenics. And because this is acceptable amongst most Americans as "what you get" when you "are in the Army now, yer not behind the plow", I don't see why there are so many objections to the minimal forms of disciplined living we were expected to live up to in The Way Corps. And, when I went into The Way Corps, I was expecting this, and was surprised that it wasn't as grueling as I expected. But, I expected it, because I learned from Way leaders before hand what to expect. And thus, I went in with eyes opened. Ah well, anyway, on LEAD anyway, I loved it.
Jonny, sometimes bad things happens just because $hi t happens, but when the bad things happen because an organization is too cheap to provide safe transportation and proper training and equipment, then the fault (and the sin of loving $$ more than God's people) is on the head of that organization...namely vp & company.
And as for Kevin and his brothers and sisters...I really cherished those people.
From my point of view...LEAD, the way it was operated, was both reckless and stupid.
Much of this experience was based on the erroneous idea that "believing equals receiving"...it doesn't. this was yet another false doctrine of twi.
They figured that if a person "believed", then they would successfully complete the Lead experience...The hitchhiking part was not only dangerous but it was also illegal. In my opinion, lead should have been an option for people...some folks just weren't cut out for that experience.
When a young man or woman enters the Marine Corps, or any branch of the military they are signing up not only to do as they're told-they are signing up for MILITARY SERVICE. Then they are trained to do the job.
Yes, I knew about LEAD, and a lot of other stuff. BUT I wasn't volunteering for active duty in military service. I was availing myself for training in CHRISTIAN SERVICE.
I'm not arguing that we "knew the job was dangerous when we took it." I'm arguing that the training wasn't geared towards spiritual matters. My point was that we could have been given choices and asked God what was right for us at that time.
Think, just think for a moment. When Jesus fed the crowds he didn't ask the 12 to run to town and get the food. He INCLUDED them in his work. He asked them to figure out a solution and when they panicked he showed them what to do. No face meltings. He was simple and direct and dealt with them lovingly and showed them a spiritual solution to the problem.
He ASKED them to stay awake while he was in the Garden. Sure, he was disappointed when they didn't stay awake, but he gave them the opportunity to do something. He didn't even command anyone to come to him in the storm. Peter wanted to and Jesus said it was okay to proceed.
Doesn't this seem like a more spiritual approach to training Christian leaders?
Waysider, I agree with everything you said. I just pointed out the positive aspects that I derived from the program, and I am glad I had that opportunity. Yet, I suppose that if they had shut the program down before Kenny Bardin was killed (which was before I went LEAD), we might still have Kenny Bardin around today. But I also see that "regular life" (life outside TWI) is filled with all kinds of tragedy also. Life is weird I guess...
Yeppers -- that it is. Howsomever (is that a real word??), real life doesn't have a *MOG* dictating to the folks involved in it as to what they should do (regardless of past experiences that have been proven to be FAULTY), and then continuing in those FAULTY practices (in that particular experience) like twi did.
My take on it?? They (twi) saw a cheap way to get corps from point A to point B. Give them 10 or 20 bucks, put them by the side of the highway, and tell them to stick out their thumb, get their *needs and wants* parallel, and believe for a trucker with red drapes in his sleeper-cab to pick them up. And then ask for the money back -- when you returned.
What a buncha B (as in *B*), and S (as in *S*).
With all the abs money rolling in -- they coulda flown the folks to the LEAD locale, and never noticed the difference. Too busy buying Drambuie to want to spend the money elsewhere, I guess.
I can (honestly) see their point in trying it ONCE (since they pushed that FAKE LAW OF BELIEVING on the unsuspecting folks that we all were back then) -- but Dooj/ Excie/ and Waysider nailed it. THE MINUTE problems arose -- the hitch-hiking thing should of been cancelled. But would Hdqtrs even consider it?? Is a bear Catholic?? Does the Pope $h!t in the woods?
Of course they wouldn't consider doing anything but the same old, same old.
And folks got hurt. Twi was on a power trip (as usual), with NO consideration for those involved.
Safety for *their own* didn't seem to be a major issue with them did it, eh?
The Love of God for the *Family* seemed to stop at the pocketbook.
So -- Jonny -- PLEASE don't compare twi to the real world anymore.
Are GSC members now being subjected to "reproof", of sorts, by other members, for having had positive (twi) experiences ?
Should we be guilt- ridden because we liked something about it? had a laugh? learned something?
If something in TWI blessed someone , are they "Less" in here because their posts are not as bloody and horrific?
THIS IS MADNESS
CONSTANT NEGATIVITY BUILDS NOTHING GOOD
I know this is NOT the "Here's why I loved TWI ..." website.
I get that...but
If a guy had an awesome time at LEAD...( or any other TWI class, event, teaching, etc.) Can't you guys just let
him/her have that ? Can relaying ANY positive be so wrong?
Does any positive post HAVE to be taken apart line by line??
Casually trying to ensure that EVERY post in here is negative seems a little "cultish" to me.
Not to mention... a real downer.
for example: I know you thought _____ was positive, but REALLY it was negative. It was bad. Bad things happened.
You really had no business enjoying yourself and should ,probably, feel badly for doing so.
strangely familiar to anyone else ???
Don't have your own thoughts or feelings.
God forbid,you were ever blessed.
I too, had a freakin' AWESOME LEAD. no apologies!
Umm Exwaycorps...I for one do not fault Jonny for having good experiences. I still find fault with a program in which danger was ignored.
Yes, I realize that there was a learning curve. It just seems to me that as problems arose solutions should have been sought.
My point has been that God did bless folks - no doubt. BUT the fact that some were not "blessed" and even died, doesn't mean that these people were wrong. It very well could mean that they had no business doing some of the stuff they were doing.
I gotta say that I agree with those that say "When bad stuff started to happen, they should have modified the parameters." I don't deny that some folks had a great time out LEAD. I was not one of them. In fact if you want to read about my LEAD experience here is the link:
Peter wanted to and Jesus said it was okay to proceed.
Doesn't this seem like a more spiritual approach to training Christian leaders?
Well to tell you the truth Doojable, I certainly would rather have had Jesus running the Way Corps and the LEAD program, no doubt about that!
Now, I am still seeking clarification on something: I know that one person died while hitch hiking to Tinnie. But, there have been statements like
"some people died"
some got hurt, maimed and even killed.
which seems to indicate more than one person. And so, was there more than one person who was killed because they went LEAD? Just wondering. Obviously, one is one too many, but it seems that the statement that "some people died" seems to be an effort to indicate "more than one" so as to increase the evil of said program.
And now, with all of that said, make sure to go back and read my posts where I did in fact say that I thought that errors were made, that certain people should not have been given leadership positions at LEAD, and that I thought that LEAD should have not been a requirement in The Way Corps training program, but rather an option like the High Country Rodeo School, a school from which I proudly graduated, after having th $h!t kicked out of me by none other than "Old Strychnine" an 1800 pound Brahma bull. But, I did get seven seconds on him. Dammit, I almost "made the ride". Missed it by a second. S h it...
I realize it's some 37 pages long, but you asked the (somewhat) same question (somewhere in the middle of it all), and got your answer. Peruse the link. :)
There's something that hasn't been brought up about LEAD: it's predecessor was total fitness institute. This was a property in CA about a third of the way between Fresno, CA and Yosemite National Park. The single digit corps had to do this. Why was this done???
Because John Somerville (sp) told VP that the corps were all wusses. JS had a background in the military which included interrogating prisoners of war. He didn't respect corps standards. Thought they were lame. That's why LEAD evolved and some of the war stories I've heard about TFI are worse than those about LEAD.
As far as hitch hiking being dangerous, I don't buy that.
I followed that whole thread DMiller. But I didn't think anyone was killed in that accident, werew they? I do remember that a gal comitted suicide later down the road though.
Well, geeze, I've been reading this thread with much interest. I went to TFI in CA, and then when I got in the corps, I went to LEAD, but not til my 2nd yr. I was an experienced camper, backpacker, rock climber type person. (Who knew?) Not from the Way, way before that.
My first year in the corps, I asked to go to LEAD. The corps coord in charge, told me that I wouldn't go, because I was experienced and they didn't want people like me there. Ok, fine.
On 2nd thought, HUH? You don't want people who have experience being involved???? What the heck is that about?
Whatever, as in all things way related, there was no rhyme or reason to anything they "leadership" did. It was as if, you had a natural inclination for something, that was evil. Instead of letting people do their thang, and make the most of who they (we) were, it was treated as a liability, instead of an asset. That is what I will never understand. Some people, got taken advantage of because of their talent and experience. Others, their talent and experience cursed them.
I will never make sense of that. I also was into interior design, and had some experience and eduacation in that field. That was cool, and I got to do it in-rez. Why was that ok?
If any of ya'll figure it out, pleeze let me know. It was some really convoluted thinking that went on. I chalk it up to total dumb people being in charge.
And like someone else said, I don't know who......LEAD should have been optional, like Rodeo School was. It was stupid to make all of us go. Actually, it was beyond stoopid.....
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waysider
Well, of course, there was Rachel, who, although she did not die at LEAD, died due to the repercussions of the LEAD accident.
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excathedra
outward bound was ordained of god ?
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J0nny Ling0
Yes, and this happens everyday in America and across the world. People get hit by cars, killed in car wrecks. A young girl had her feet cut off riding the "Superman" ride at a Six Flags America amusement park just last week or so. Sick men rape women and even little children it seems every single day. I know it seems wrong to mention anything positive here about one's experiences in The Way, or on LEAD as in this case, for it seems to divert from the status quo. But, if positive things happened to me and others, I think that people like Hooner deserve to see both sides of the story. And I know many many who outright loved their time on LEAD and are thankful for the life's lessons learned. I chalk up that arrogance that Out There speaks of as just plain "youthful arrogance", novices lifted up with pride, and mistakenly placed in that position of leadership. For, the folks who ran the sessions when I went LEAD were kind hearted and very heartsy. They had the individual students best interest in in their hearts and genuinely helped them out, me included. And so Hooner, there were good things about it to be sure. And, there were also bad things about it too. Certain people simply should not have been in place as instructors. Certain people should not have bee required to go LEAD. In my opinion, LEAD should have been like the rodeo school thing, where it was optional for those who wanted the challenge. And yet, when I went into The Way Corps, I did it with my eyes open. I knew about LEAD as part of the program (and the hitch hiking part too), I knew that I would be challenged to work hard all day, stay up late studying, eat less than I normally did, run and get aerobics points, and study the Bible lots. And so, I went in knowing that it would be very hard for this lazy boy here, but, I also had the attitude of "bring it on, I want it, that's why I'm here". But that was just me. But I don't think I was alone....
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excathedra
your empathy overwhelms me
i myself am trying to understand so much of this
i'm glad god blessed YOU
--
that "they" continued this program or segments of it, disgusts me
--
ps. i'll shut up, i'm trying to look at this as a christian thing, my bad
glad god took care of some and not the others
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J0nny Ling0
Okay, thanks Waysider for that answer. That is why I asked. I remember her story from the LEAD Accident thread. So sad.
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J0nny Ling0
Hey Excie, I have no idea why things happen to some and not others. I have heard over and over in the "regular Christian world" of people praying and getting desired results, and of people in their same churches praying and then the "prayed for one" dies. I know that in these horrible kidnap cases, many horrified parents pray, only to have their child's body found somewhere. And yet there are those few cases when the child is rescued alive, and the parents go on record as saying something like "We never lost our Faith that God would bring our child home alive. We never gave up hope". And I think to myself when I read of these things; "Geez, I wonder what the other parents whose children were killed think when they hear of this?" And so shoot, I just don't see those bad things that happened on LEAD as a whole lot different than so many terrible things that happen in this old world. Why do these things happen? I don't know. But all of the blame, well, I just don't know. It just seems fruitless to spend so much time "blaming"...
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waysider
Jonny
I see your point about bad things happening .----------I really do.
And, I agree with a good deal of it.
But, the point is, that after some of these bad things happened, upper leadership should have reevaluated whether the benefits outweighed the risks.
Even if you take the ethical, emotional, spiritual aspect out of the formula, it doesn't make good business sense to continue on in the fashion which they did when they knew the potential for disaster.
They acted irresponsibly(IMO) by continuing to march forward when it was demonstrated to them that this was not a wise course of action.
They(upper TWI management) turned a blind eye to how continuation of this program could have seriously adverse effects for some participants, even though there were obviously some who reaped benefits.
It was another example of the "one size fits all" approach that TWI liked to take.
As a leader, you need to find people's strong suits and give them challenges that will help them more fully develop them.
For some, that may be physical challenge.
For others, that may be a challenge to grow artistically.
Point is--------One shoe doesn't fit everybody.
Maybe there was a moral lesson in Cinderella, after all.
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J0nny Ling0
Waysider, I agree with everything you said. I just pointed out the positive aspects that I derived from the program, and I am glad I had that opportunity. Yet, I suppose that if they had shut the program down before Kenny Bardin was killed (which was before I went LEAD), we might still have Kenny Bardin around today. But I also see that "regular life" (life outside TWI) is filled with all kinds of tragedy also. Life is weird I guess...
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doojable
Waysider said exactly what I was thinking.
Yes, some of us had great experiences - and I can chalk that up to it being that some of us were meant to do those things.
We were told in PFAL, "If God wants you to know something He'll tell YOU first." Yet, in residence we weren't told to go ask God if we should go do such and such. This would have been some real spiritual training, IMHO. We were TOLD what we ALL would be doing.
That is a cookie-cutter approach to God.
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J0nny Ling0
And yet, we went into the Corps training program knowing that we were supposed to do as we were told. We volunteered. In the United States Military, the same approach is expected. If a person wants to go to West Point, Annapolis, or, the United States Merchant Marine Academy (a place dear to my heart), you are told what to do for your training. And if you don't do it, you are either out of there, or worse, punished with cruel physical punishment like extra and grueling calisthenics. And because this is acceptable amongst most Americans as "what you get" when you "are in the Army now, yer not behind the plow", I don't see why there are so many objections to the minimal forms of disciplined living we were expected to live up to in The Way Corps. And, when I went into The Way Corps, I was expecting this, and was surprised that it wasn't as grueling as I expected. But, I expected it, because I learned from Way leaders before hand what to expect. And thus, I went in with eyes opened. Ah well, anyway, on LEAD anyway, I loved it.
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tonto
Jonny, sometimes bad things happens just because $hi t happens, but when the bad things happen because an organization is too cheap to provide safe transportation and proper training and equipment, then the fault (and the sin of loving $$ more than God's people) is on the head of that organization...namely vp & company.
And as for Kevin and his brothers and sisters...I really cherished those people.
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exwaycorps
REALLY BUGGED RIGHT NOW
Are GSC members now being subjected to "reproof", of sorts, by other members, for having had positive (twi) experiences ?
Should we be guilt- ridden because we liked something about it? had a laugh? learned something?
If something in TWI blessed someone , are they "Less" in here because their posts are not as bloody and horrific?
THIS IS MADNESS
CONSTANT NEGATIVITY BUILDS NOTHING GOOD
I know this is NOT the "Here's why I loved TWI ..." website.
I get that...but
If a guy had an awesome time at LEAD...( or any other TWI class, event, teaching, etc.) Can't you guys just let
him/her have that ? Can relaying ANY positive be so wrong?
Does any positive post HAVE to be taken apart line by line??
Casually trying to ensure that EVERY post in here is negative seems a little "cultish" to me.
Not to mention... a real downer.
for example: I know you thought _____ was positive, but REALLY it was negative. It was bad. Bad things happened.
You really had no business enjoying yourself and should ,probably, feel badly for doing so.
strangely familiar to anyone else ???
Don't have your own thoughts or feelings.
God forbid,you were ever blessed.
I too, had a freakin' AWESOME LEAD. no apologies!
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GrouchoMarxJr
From my point of view...LEAD, the way it was operated, was both reckless and stupid.
Much of this experience was based on the erroneous idea that "believing equals receiving"...it doesn't. this was yet another false doctrine of twi.
They figured that if a person "believed", then they would successfully complete the Lead experience...The hitchhiking part was not only dangerous but it was also illegal. In my opinion, lead should have been an option for people...some folks just weren't cut out for that experience.
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doojable
A slight difference here though, Jonny.
When a young man or woman enters the Marine Corps, or any branch of the military they are signing up not only to do as they're told-they are signing up for MILITARY SERVICE. Then they are trained to do the job.
Yes, I knew about LEAD, and a lot of other stuff. BUT I wasn't volunteering for active duty in military service. I was availing myself for training in CHRISTIAN SERVICE.
I'm not arguing that we "knew the job was dangerous when we took it." I'm arguing that the training wasn't geared towards spiritual matters. My point was that we could have been given choices and asked God what was right for us at that time.
Think, just think for a moment. When Jesus fed the crowds he didn't ask the 12 to run to town and get the food. He INCLUDED them in his work. He asked them to figure out a solution and when they panicked he showed them what to do. No face meltings. He was simple and direct and dealt with them lovingly and showed them a spiritual solution to the problem.
He ASKED them to stay awake while he was in the Garden. Sure, he was disappointed when they didn't stay awake, but he gave them the opportunity to do something. He didn't even command anyone to come to him in the storm. Peter wanted to and Jesus said it was okay to proceed.
Doesn't this seem like a more spiritual approach to training Christian leaders?
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dmiller
Yeppers -- that it is. Howsomever (is that a real word??), real life doesn't have a *MOG* dictating to the folks involved in it as to what they should do (regardless of past experiences that have been proven to be FAULTY), and then continuing in those FAULTY practices (in that particular experience) like twi did.
My take on it?? They (twi) saw a cheap way to get corps from point A to point B. Give them 10 or 20 bucks, put them by the side of the highway, and tell them to stick out their thumb, get their *needs and wants* parallel, and believe for a trucker with red drapes in his sleeper-cab to pick them up. And then ask for the money back -- when you returned.
What a buncha B (as in *B*), and S (as in *S*).
With all the abs money rolling in -- they coulda flown the folks to the LEAD locale, and never noticed the difference. Too busy buying Drambuie to want to spend the money elsewhere, I guess.
I can (honestly) see their point in trying it ONCE (since they pushed that FAKE LAW OF BELIEVING on the unsuspecting folks that we all were back then) -- but Dooj/ Excie/ and Waysider nailed it. THE MINUTE problems arose -- the hitch-hiking thing should of been cancelled. But would Hdqtrs even consider it?? Is a bear Catholic?? Does the Pope $h!t in the woods?
Of course they wouldn't consider doing anything but the same old, same old.
And folks got hurt. Twi was on a power trip (as usual), with NO consideration for those involved.
Safety for *their own* didn't seem to be a major issue with them did it, eh?
The Love of God for the *Family* seemed to stop at the pocketbook.
So -- Jonny -- PLEASE don't compare twi to the real world anymore.
It's the ultimate oxymoron.
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tonto
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doojable
Umm Exwaycorps...I for one do not fault Jonny for having good experiences. I still find fault with a program in which danger was ignored.
Yes, I realize that there was a learning curve. It just seems to me that as problems arose solutions should have been sought.
My point has been that God did bless folks - no doubt. BUT the fact that some were not "blessed" and even died, doesn't mean that these people were wrong. It very well could mean that they had no business doing some of the stuff they were doing.
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dmiller
Woops! Sorry Tonto -- I'm lysdexic at times.
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Eyesopen
Hehehe That was hella cute DMiller!
I gotta say that I agree with those that say "When bad stuff started to happen, they should have modified the parameters." I don't deny that some folks had a great time out LEAD. I was not one of them. In fact if you want to read about my LEAD experience here is the link:
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...mp;#entry323704
Hope that works for ya. I don't have much more to say on the subject.
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J0nny Ling0
Now, I am still seeking clarification on something: I know that one person died while hitch hiking to Tinnie. But, there have been statements like
which seems to indicate more than one person. And so, was there more than one person who was killed because they went LEAD? Just wondering. Obviously, one is one too many, but it seems that the statement that "some people died" seems to be an effort to indicate "more than one" so as to increase the evil of said program.
And now, with all of that said, make sure to go back and read my posts where I did in fact say that I thought that errors were made, that certain people should not have been given leadership positions at LEAD, and that I thought that LEAD should have not been a requirement in The Way Corps training program, but rather an option like the High Country Rodeo School, a school from which I proudly graduated, after having th $h!t kicked out of me by none other than "Old Strychnine" an 1800 pound Brahma bull. But, I did get seven seconds on him. Dammit, I almost "made the ride". Missed it by a second. S h it...
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dmiller
Jonny --your question is answered already in THE LEAD ACCIDENT -- WHAT HAPPENED?.
I realize it's some 37 pages long, but you asked the (somewhat) same question (somewhere in the middle of it all), and got your answer. Peruse the link. :)
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johniam
There's something that hasn't been brought up about LEAD: it's predecessor was total fitness institute. This was a property in CA about a third of the way between Fresno, CA and Yosemite National Park. The single digit corps had to do this. Why was this done???
Because John Somerville (sp) told VP that the corps were all wusses. JS had a background in the military which included interrogating prisoners of war. He didn't respect corps standards. Thought they were lame. That's why LEAD evolved and some of the war stories I've heard about TFI are worse than those about LEAD.
As far as hitch hiking being dangerous, I don't buy that.
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J0nny Ling0
I followed that whole thread DMiller. But I didn't think anyone was killed in that accident, werew they? I do remember that a gal comitted suicide later down the road though.
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ex10
Well, geeze, I've been reading this thread with much interest. I went to TFI in CA, and then when I got in the corps, I went to LEAD, but not til my 2nd yr. I was an experienced camper, backpacker, rock climber type person. (Who knew?) Not from the Way, way before that.
My first year in the corps, I asked to go to LEAD. The corps coord in charge, told me that I wouldn't go, because I was experienced and they didn't want people like me there. Ok, fine.
On 2nd thought, HUH? You don't want people who have experience being involved???? What the heck is that about?
Whatever, as in all things way related, there was no rhyme or reason to anything they "leadership" did. It was as if, you had a natural inclination for something, that was evil. Instead of letting people do their thang, and make the most of who they (we) were, it was treated as a liability, instead of an asset. That is what I will never understand. Some people, got taken advantage of because of their talent and experience. Others, their talent and experience cursed them.
I will never make sense of that. I also was into interior design, and had some experience and eduacation in that field. That was cool, and I got to do it in-rez. Why was that ok?
If any of ya'll figure it out, pleeze let me know. It was some really convoluted thinking that went on. I chalk it up to total dumb people being in charge.
And like someone else said, I don't know who......LEAD should have been optional, like Rodeo School was. It was stupid to make all of us go. Actually, it was beyond stoopid.....
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