Badmouthing the ex and/or the girlfriend will do you no good. Your daughter has to come to her own conclusions without feeling pressure from you.
You have the responsibility to limit or prevent face to face contact with an abusive ex spouse. But how much contact, whether, e-mail, phone, IM, or snail-mail your daughter has with her daddy is her call.
He will out himself soon enough--and she will feel relieved if she doesn't feel that her decision will in anyway affect how you will react. He, I am sure, is doing enough of that tightrope pulling without you picking up the other end.
Badmouthing the ex and/or the girlfriend will do you no good. Your daughter has to come to her own conclusions without feeling pressure from you.
You have the responsibility to limit or prevent face to face contact with an abusive ex spouse. But how much contact, whether, e-mail, phone, IM, or snail-mail your daughter has with her daddy is her call.
Cindy, your self-awareness, noted when you said your ability to be objective is impaired, is a very good thing.
However, as much as anyone here at GSC knows you, this is STILL way too limited of a medium for communication for you to get very much genuine insight here.
I say -- very much -- because there will be some good insight... as noted in templelady's post (highlighted in my post).
However, given the tremendous importance of your daughter's relationships with both you and her father, I would caution you to take very little (if any) direction from posts on a thread like this.
We will NOT be able to clearly and/or legitimately assess either your daughter, you or her father. Nor will any of us here be certain how much of our experience will appropriately related to the situation you described and are seeking help with.
You NEED the insight of trained professionals with background (education AND experience) in counseling and/or social work related disciplines in order to have the best chance of giving your daughter the best shot at emerging into adulthood with as healthly of an emotional/social makeup as possible.
I offer this advice, and NOT anything that even pretends to assess any of the involved parties and relationships because I have been deeply affected by and through divorce related custody concern for my daughter (who is now 17, and too near 18 for comfort) and parental alienation.
Any insights offered by anyone here without first hand observation/interaction with enough of your situation (and all the pertinent relationships) -- though no doubt well intentioned -- will have far too much potential for infusing a great deal of added confusion and possible emotional vulnerability for your daughter especially.
Bottom line, I understand your concern for your daughter. I understand it with a heavy heart. That's why I urge you to get the best possible advice from the best available professionals you can find.
My two cents... let the ex (and whichever girlfriend/ex-wife he is on right now) alone... your daughter is seeing for herself exactly what they are made of. Painful? Tremendously!!! But if you try to "butt in" it will not help anything, and will only muddy the waters emotionally.
And I do speak from some experience. I saw what verbal battles between my sister and her ex did to their kids. When he did something stupid and she told them about how stupid she thought it was, it really only hurt them more. First they sided with one, then with the other. Each way they went came with lots of anger and hurt feelings. It wasn't until they were adults that they were able to step back enough to sort it out for themselves. Whereas, if you keep your cool and just be there to support your daughter (but not vent your own hurt on her bahalf) she will have a "level-headed" environment in which she can face the hurtful truth much better.
And there is no getting around that hurtful truth. I've seen my ex, and lots of my son's friends have to eventually face the fact that their dads were simply not the people they wished they were. The "showing up unannounced as a treat", the "I bought you this to make up for..." followed by the "empty promises over the phone", the "using them to manipulate the ex", the "non-answering of letters and emails", the "not showing up for important events like birthdays and graduations"... eventually the kids see the truth and deal with it.
Almost the second we left the ex, I have had the kids and I in counseling. Part of the reason for this, besides the trauma they experienced in their young lives, was so that someone objective could help steer me and my kids through what happened with their dad. I did not want my very negative emotions regarding him to be something the kids had to deal with. The kids and I set guidelines for how our family would deal with their dad, with our counselor(s)...I would respond factually to questions asked of me (if need be, I would defer those questions until we saw the counselor again so that we could have help sorting through whatever it was). It worked pretty well....and the kids didn't have to deal with emotional tirades from me.
Their dad got no such counseling, so his emotional tirades were often and alarming. Yet still....I would do my best to compartmentalize my own feelings and aim for doing what was in the best interest of my kids. For the most part, I succeeded. (as far as most humans could)
In fact only one of us is still in counseling....and those visits are down to once a month....soon to end because we have all worked so hard at becoming healthy. Our counselor has commented often on how well we did in such very hard times.
I guess I just needed to blow off steam.....I HATE watching my daughter go through this.....but I know she has the tools to deal with it. She and I "checked in" with each other yesterday, she is an impressive young lady.
The only thing I would add, and I'm sure your counsellor has stressed this too, is that your daughter understand that it is NOT HER FAULT that her father acts this way. Too often the kids blame themselves.
For whatever reason, my daughter hasn't been able to post. It could be a snafu at GS or something she isn't doing right, or whatever. I've only dashed in here to let ya'll know that she is still tryin. When she and I get a moment to sit down together, it'll probably be something wayyyy simple that was missed. Until then....our calendar is FULL!!!!!!
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GarthP2000
Time to call these guyz on your ex?
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templelady
Badmouthing the ex and/or the girlfriend will do you no good. Your daughter has to come to her own conclusions without feeling pressure from you.
You have the responsibility to limit or prevent face to face contact with an abusive ex spouse. But how much contact, whether, e-mail, phone, IM, or snail-mail your daughter has with her daddy is her call.
He will out himself soon enough--and she will feel relieved if she doesn't feel that her decision will in anyway affect how you will react. He, I am sure, is doing enough of that tightrope pulling without you picking up the other end.
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Rocky
Cindy, your self-awareness, noted when you said your ability to be objective is impaired, is a very good thing.
However, as much as anyone here at GSC knows you, this is STILL way too limited of a medium for communication for you to get very much genuine insight here.
I say -- very much -- because there will be some good insight... as noted in templelady's post (highlighted in my post).
However, given the tremendous importance of your daughter's relationships with both you and her father, I would caution you to take very little (if any) direction from posts on a thread like this.
We will NOT be able to clearly and/or legitimately assess either your daughter, you or her father. Nor will any of us here be certain how much of our experience will appropriately related to the situation you described and are seeking help with.
You NEED the insight of trained professionals with background (education AND experience) in counseling and/or social work related disciplines in order to have the best chance of giving your daughter the best shot at emerging into adulthood with as healthly of an emotional/social makeup as possible.
I offer this advice, and NOT anything that even pretends to assess any of the involved parties and relationships because I have been deeply affected by and through divorce related custody concern for my daughter (who is now 17, and too near 18 for comfort) and parental alienation.
Any insights offered by anyone here without first hand observation/interaction with enough of your situation (and all the pertinent relationships) -- though no doubt well intentioned -- will have far too much potential for infusing a great deal of added confusion and possible emotional vulnerability for your daughter especially.
Bottom line, I understand your concern for your daughter. I understand it with a heavy heart. That's why I urge you to get the best possible advice from the best available professionals you can find.
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TheHighWay
My two cents... let the ex (and whichever girlfriend/ex-wife he is on right now) alone... your daughter is seeing for herself exactly what they are made of. Painful? Tremendously!!! But if you try to "butt in" it will not help anything, and will only muddy the waters emotionally.
And I do speak from some experience. I saw what verbal battles between my sister and her ex did to their kids. When he did something stupid and she told them about how stupid she thought it was, it really only hurt them more. First they sided with one, then with the other. Each way they went came with lots of anger and hurt feelings. It wasn't until they were adults that they were able to step back enough to sort it out for themselves. Whereas, if you keep your cool and just be there to support your daughter (but not vent your own hurt on her bahalf) she will have a "level-headed" environment in which she can face the hurtful truth much better.
And there is no getting around that hurtful truth. I've seen my ex, and lots of my son's friends have to eventually face the fact that their dads were simply not the people they wished they were. The "showing up unannounced as a treat", the "I bought you this to make up for..." followed by the "empty promises over the phone", the "using them to manipulate the ex", the "non-answering of letters and emails", the "not showing up for important events like birthdays and graduations"... eventually the kids see the truth and deal with it.
Hang in there! This, too, shall pass.
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ChasUFarley
I second what Rocky and TempleLady have both said - good advice!
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Cindy!
Almost the second we left the ex, I have had the kids and I in counseling. Part of the reason for this, besides the trauma they experienced in their young lives, was so that someone objective could help steer me and my kids through what happened with their dad. I did not want my very negative emotions regarding him to be something the kids had to deal with. The kids and I set guidelines for how our family would deal with their dad, with our counselor(s)...I would respond factually to questions asked of me (if need be, I would defer those questions until we saw the counselor again so that we could have help sorting through whatever it was). It worked pretty well....and the kids didn't have to deal with emotional tirades from me.
Their dad got no such counseling, so his emotional tirades were often and alarming. Yet still....I would do my best to compartmentalize my own feelings and aim for doing what was in the best interest of my kids. For the most part, I succeeded. (as far as most humans could)
In fact only one of us is still in counseling....and those visits are down to once a month....soon to end because we have all worked so hard at becoming healthy. Our counselor has commented often on how well we did in such very hard times.
I guess I just needed to blow off steam.....I HATE watching my daughter go through this.....but I know she has the tools to deal with it. She and I "checked in" with each other yesterday, she is an impressive young lady.
Thanks for letting me blow off some steam!!!!!
ps Garth.....LOL
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TheHighWay
Cindy,
Sounds like you are an amazing mom!! Your kids are very fortunate.
THW
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Watered Garden
The only thing I would add, and I'm sure your counsellor has stressed this too, is that your daughter understand that it is NOT HER FAULT that her father acts this way. Too often the kids blame themselves.
WG
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Cindy!
Thanks guys!!!
She might reply to this thread....get ready to meet one heck of a teenager!!!!
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excathedra
kids are pretty darn smart. i look forward to meeting your smart girl if she chooses to post here
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Cindy!
she will...she forgot her password so has to apply again and is waiting!
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shazdancer
Oh girl, you know I hear you! I'm glad you were able to vent about it here.
It sux when they lie to their own children.
But the truth is, they're really just trying to convince themselves. Very sad.
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excathedra
i see what you mean, shaz
at least when i suck as a mom, i admit it
to my son of course
and i ask forgiveness
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Rocky
And Excie, IMO that is a VERY good thing both for your and your son!
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Cindy!
For whatever reason, my daughter hasn't been able to post. It could be a snafu at GS or something she isn't doing right, or whatever. I've only dashed in here to let ya'll know that she is still tryin. When she and I get a moment to sit down together, it'll probably be something wayyyy simple that was missed. Until then....our calendar is FULL!!!!!!
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