A Few Big Things I Learned Taking PFAL

[doojable]

How?

Think about it...

I'll see how you're doing in a couple of hours...

[Sunesis]

Oldies - its between you and God. No one can answer "how" for you.

You need to ask him to teach you - and he will, if you are sincere.

Are you ready to go outside the box???

Are you ready to totally give your life and heart to Christ? In exchange, he will give you his life and heart.

Are you ready to look to Him, and Him only, instead of VP, PFAL, the "Word" according to VP?

What would happen if you communed with Christ every day, with just him for a month or two, let him teach you, leave everything else alone for awhile?

Will you commune and talk to HIM? Or will you ignore and bypass Him - God's Heart - and think you aren't allowed to talk to and commune with Him, only with God?

I realized in TWI, yes, I knew about his resurrection and power and had lots of knowledge, but I did not know HIM. I knew lots about Him.

I did not know him.

I asked him to reveal himself to me.

That's all I could do.

[doojable]

Unfortunately, I had come to believe that SIT was how I communed with Christ, because it was "Christ in me."

Me, me, me...

Something wrong with that picture.

As for the other question Oldies...

If me finding the "Word of Truth" is dependent on (here it is again) MY work - then it appears that God is playing a game of hide-and-seek.

I find the truth.

I do the work.

I rightly divide the Word.

I am knowlegeable (but I have no wisdom because I've got my nose stuck in a concordance and my head stuck up my

I "find" God. (Even though He's not lost, I am.)

Just how soon before I get puffed up in MY work and MY knowlege? How soon before I make a god of myself and my abilities?

God in a box - gift wrapped and tied with a bow... <_<

[johniam]

Relationship??? Christ in you. That's not a relationship???

quote: Oldies - its between you and God. No one can answer "how" for you.

You need to ask him to teach you - and he will, if you are sincere.

Are you ready to go outside the box???

Are you ready to totally give your life and heart to Christ? In exchange, he will give you his life and heart.

Are you ready to look to Him, and Him only, instead of VP, PFAL, the "Word" according to VP?

What would happen if you communed with Christ every day, with just him for a month or two, let him teach you, leave everything else alone for awhile?

Will you commune and talk to HIM? Or will you ignore and bypass Him - God's Heart - and think you aren't allowed to talk to and commune with Him, only with God?

********************************************************************************

**********************

What a cop out! So oldies is supposed to accept this false premise that he's wrong and that until he agrees with you he's not sincere, not truly committed, ready to go outside the box. What a pile of crap!

quote: I realized in TWI, yes, I knew about his resurrection and power and had lots of knowledge, but I did not know HIM. I knew lots about Him.

I did not know him.

I asked him to reveal himself to me.

That's all I could do.

How do you know you're not "communing" with a devil spirit?

Edited August 30, 2007 by johniam

[doojable]

How do you know you're not "communing" with a devil spirit?

How do you know the same thing about yourself?

Edited August 30, 2007 by doojable

[WordWolf]

John,

have you ever considered making the effort to indicate what's a quote and what's your reply?

That last post was one of your more confused muddles, and I get dizzy trying to untangle the spaghetti.

You've been here for years now. It's not rocket science.

Do SOMETHING visually to mark the 2 as different, please!

[WhiteDove]

Waysider- TWI taught us precious little from and about the Gospels.

Really??? I count 188 Sunday night tapes alone on the Gospels........... and that was only up to 1988

That does not include Corps tapes, Rock of Ages tapes. Classes, Tapes of the month, Special tapes or all the non taped teachings for that matter. Without doing a detailed breakdown it appears that most chapters and verses are covered I'd guess 95% at least in SNS alone.

Wondering if you missed this volume of work somehow?

Edited August 30, 2007 by WhiteDove

[Bumpy]

John,

have you ever considered making the effort to indicate what's a quote and what's your reply?

That last post was one of your more confused muddles, and I get dizzy trying to untangle the spaghetti.

You've been here for years now. It's not rocket science.

Do SOMETHING visually to mark the 2 as different, please!

At this point Herr WW, I’m not even sure the “Devil Spirits” could figure things out here! What a debate...3 in 1, you and Him, me and You...what’s a guy to do if you want a “special” relationship with JC? What the Way taught, what it didn’t, if you are sincere, in a box or out of one, vp, pfal, da Word. It’s gettin’ pretty “strange” in here folks...I think I’ll go grab a croissant...PS, Oldiesman, your picture reminds me of someone??

[T-Bone]

Relationship??? Christ in you. That's not a relationship???

...What a cop out! So oldies is supposed to accept this false premise that he's wrong and that until he agrees with you he's not sincere, not truly committed, ready to go outside the box. What a pile of crap!

quote: I realized in TWI, yes, I knew about his resurrection and power and had lots of knowledge, but I did not know HIM. I knew lots about Him.

I did not know him.

I asked him to reveal himself to me.

That's all I could do.

How do you know you're not "communing" with a devil spirit?

TWI's "Christ in you" doctrine is NOT about a relationship with Jesus Christ – it's about recognizing the supposed "real you." John L**n wrote a couple of books developing that theme, Will the real you please stand up, and Will the real you please remain standing…This doctrine fostered an identity crisis with folks trying to find the "authentic self". It's a homogenizing process – so everyone would think alike, respond the same way - - it was really the "Ideal TWI follower in you."

"How do you know you're not "communing" with a devil spirit?" – I don't think a devil spirit is going to encourage one to follow the moral dictates of Scripture, love people, worship God, etc.…And another thing – that soooooo reminds me of their fear tactics – whenever they want to manipulate people's thinking they make it like you'll get possessed if you go outside their boundaries. That particular trick was rampant around the aftermath of PoP – it was part of their crisis management.

Edited August 30, 2007 by T-Bone

[waysider]

I believe that fear of "communing with a devil spirit" had its origins in a premise that was being expounded throughout TWI in the early 1970s.

The premise, generally stated, was that there was actually a devil spirit named Jesus and it was possible you were really talking to him. We were told (don't remember by whom) not to talk to Jesus for this reason.

This has been discussed here at GSC previously.

Geeze!--- It's amazing how bizarre this stuff all seems, in retrospect!

[Bumpy]

I believe that fear of "communing with a devil spirit" had its origins in a premise that was being expounded throughout TWI in the early 1970s.

The premise, generally stated, was that there was actually a devil spirit named Jesus and it was possible you were really talking to him. We were told (don't remember by whom) not to talk to Jesus for this reason.

This has been discussed here at GSC previously.

Geeze!--- It's amazing how bizarre this stuff all seems, in retrospect!

In "retrospect"...how 'bout TODAY!

[oldiesman]

What a cop out! So oldies is supposed to accept this false premise that he's wrong and that until he agrees with you he's not sincere, not truly committed, ready to go outside the box. What a pile of crap!

quote: I realized in TWI, yes, I knew about his resurrection and power and had lots of knowledge, but I did not know HIM. I knew lots about Him.

I did not know him.

I asked him to reveal himself to me.

That's all I could do.

How do you know you're not "communing" with a devil spirit?

Thanks Johniam.

I think that's a legitimate question but actually that wasn't what I was thinking; what I thought was, "how do you know you're not communing with the Holy Spirit, or God; instead of Jesus?? How do you distinguish between them when communing? Is there a difference in how or what they each communicate?

Another question; isn't God big enough to reveal his heart to you Himself? Since we now have holy spirit... why would God require Jesus to explain his Father's heart to you when the Father Himself can explain it directly to you via the Holy Spirit?

[rascal]

John asked...*How do we know we aren`t communing with a devil spirit*?

Jesus said that by fruit we can know what is genuine

That fruit is produced from what we are inside...not something that we are striving to become. If we are having issues with fruit of the flesh rather than manifesting that fruit of the spirit...then it is time to examine our understanding for flaws.

edited for clarity

Edited August 30, 2007 by rascal

[doojable]

How do we know we aren`t communing with a devil spirit?

Jesus said that by fruit we can know what is genuine

That fruit is produced from what we are inside...not something that we are striving to become. If we are having issues with fruit of the flesh rather than manifesting that fruit of the spirit...then it is time to examine our understanding for flaws.

The fruit indicates the type of tree and the health of the tree.

Apples come from apple trees.

Unhealthy conditions or unhealthy trees produce either unhealthy fruit or no fruit at all...

A spiritual person will produce spiritual fruit.

If that person is spiritually unhealthy, they will either produce no fruit or unhealthy spiritual fruit.

At least that's how I understand it.

Edited August 30, 2007 by doojable

[T-Bone]

I believe that fear of "communing with a devil spirit" had its origins in a premise that was being expounded throughout TWI in the early 1970s.

The premise, generally stated, was that there was actually a devil spirit named Jesus and it was possible you were really talking to him. We were told (don't remember by whom) not to talk to Jesus for this reason.

This has been discussed here at GSC previously.

Geeze!--- It's amazing how bizarre this stuff all seems, in retrospect!

Yup – and when you couple that line of thought along with TWI folks being afraid to consider an alternate viewpoint – you've got an effective way of insulating people from the real world…It was never about a relationship with the real Jesus – but about a relationship with an organization – did you conform? Did you fit it?

…Another thing – looking at the passage where they more than likely got this idea:

II Corinthians 11:3,4

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

It looks to me like the passage is saying if someone PREACHES another Jesus - one different from that of the Bible, there is the possibility of receiving another spirit – one that is NOT the Holy Spirit given to those who accept the Jesus Christ of the Bible.

Paul was talking about people PREACHING another Jesus. In other words, someone presenting an alternate view of the real Jesus. Paul is talking about a counterfeit doctrine – not a devil spirit impersonating Jesus. Would TWI's "Christ in you is the real you" doctrine be considered an alternate view of the real Jesus?...Just a thought.

In order to spot a counterfeit, you've got to be familiar with what is genuine. Where else but in the gospels do we find the greatest amount of info on the real Jesus. And it is by following the teachings of Jesus that we gain an experiential knowledge of the real Jesus:

John 7:16-18.

Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

~~~

In "retrospect"...how 'bout TODAY!

It all depends on if you rightly divide his post. Where would you put the comma?

"Verily verily I say unto thee today, it's amazing how bizarre this stuff all seems."

Or

"Verily verily I say unto thee, today it's amazing how bizarre this stuff all seems."

If you get that one little comma wrong – Waysider's whole post just falls to pieces.

Edited August 30, 2007 by T-Bone

[rascal]

Dooj I was venturing an answere to johniams question. Sorry for not using punctuation to make it clearer.

It was my opinion that you could tell what was genuine and what was counterfet by examining the fruit manifested.

[Sunesis]

You know Oldies, I am sorry I opened my heart up to you.

I never expected such a brutal response.

It will never happen again.

Edited August 30, 2007 by Sunesis

[waysider]

Q."How will I know which one of the two(God or Jesus) I'm addressing?"

A. As long as they know (and I'm quite certain they do), why would that even matter?

[oldiesman]

What difference does it make?

I like to know that when I pray, I know who I'm praying to.

I like to know that if I receive communication in return, who exactly it is who is communicating with me.

[waysider]

What difference does it make?

I like to know that when I pray, I know who I'm praying to.

I like to know that if I receive communication in return, who exactly it is who is communicating with me.

If it's necessary for you to know, I'm sure you could ask.

[oldiesman]

I'm beginning to think that this "personal communing and relationship with Jesus" thing may be nothing more than spiritual gobbledygook.

If you can't at least explain it, or explain how that would differ from a relationship or prayer to God, then you shouldn't condemn or disparage folks who might not participate in it.

[Bumpy]

If it's necessary for you to know, I'm sure you could ask.

Did any of you ever play Ouiga with VP? I know he was a big fan of the game! You could have asked him all these questions during a candle light with incense session, a late summer night, (after you had all been dismissed from your last corps meeting, of course).

I can imagine many of you behind your avatars moving the little object around the board, together with Dr. Vic smoking a fag and having a few drinks.... Mr. Ouiga, who are we speaking to when we pray...oooohh, as the letters are formed? Is it JC or is it Oldiesman on the line? How many questions can you ask before that two drink limit is exceeded, and does the old Doc get spooked as the drinks start spilling and the ashes start falling on the board...?? The “spirit” world begins to awaken...

[doojable]

Dooj I was venturing an answere to johniams question. Sorry for not using punctuation to make it clearer.

It was my opinion that you could tell what was genuine and what was counterfet by examining the fruit manifested.

I wasn't trying to step on any toes there Rascal. Hopefully you and I are "good."

[rascal]

Absolutely :) I realised that I was unclear in my communication. Thanks.

Sunesis, your words bring understanding ...even if not to the person intended.

Thank you.

[tonto]

You know Oldies, I am sorry I opened my heart up to you.

I never expected such a brutal response.

It will never happen again.

Sunesis, I'm sorry your words weren't appreciated by him but I'm glad you opened your heart.

Just know that they mean something to me and who knows how many others. Thank you for your insight.