I loved Dr. Wierwille. I knew he wasn't perfect, not by a long shot, but I loved the heck out of him. Even today, I love him and cherish what I still admire about him, but I've had to reckon with his shortcomings more carefully in regard to both doctrine and practice.
AnotherDan, Thanks for sharing. You've so eloquently summed up feelings of mine about VP as well.
OK, I thought of something. This all reminds me of a story my mother told me once. She said that when she was married before the kids came, she had to go to the doctor for a sore ankle. This was during the 1930s. The doctor asked her how it happened and she said to him, "My husband and I were horsing around and I lost my balance and fell off the bed." For you dark ages people, the phrase 'horsing around' is referring to foreplay.
But the doctor just LOOKED at her like she was evil or something. She thought, "What a creep!" and didn't go to that doctor anymore. I said that the ATMOSPHERE was what was so special about CFS. Most of you are so brainwashed by our current male bashing culture that you can't even imagine a casual atmosphere where people can calmly and safely discuss sexual matters without prompting a witch hunt.
One poster claimed that I thought that what the man did was what was beautiful. But it's OK to misrepresent, isn't it? "At least it's not PLAGIARISM!", right?
Larry, yes I did notice that you at least allowed for the possibility that the guy just acted spontaneously without thinking. I guess when I said "your comments aren't worth responding to" it was with distinction, not without exception. Sure, removed from its context, what the guy did was, at the least, inappropriate, but these women gripe at me saying I don't have meaningful input because I don't know what it's like to be pinned down and raped. Do they, or even us men, know what it's like to not be able to have an erection for 20 years? Would being healed from that be worthy of maybe a little bit of enthusiasm? At least he wasn't walking and leaping and ... whatever.
I said that the ATMOSPHERE was what was so special about CFS. Most of you are so brainwashed by our current male bashing culture that you can't even imagine a casual atmosphere where people can calmly and safely discuss sexual matters without prompting a witch hunt.
John, first I would agree with you that an atmosphere where peole can calmly and safely DISCUSS sexual matters is a wonderful thing. However, DISCUSSION does not require physical contact, particularly of that nature in a public setting.
Then, I would point out that you are speaking to a group of people, a number of which have first hand experience with sexual abuse and therefore are rather sensative to it.
Finally, I would point out once again, given the amount of time you have spent around these forums, I find it difficult to believe you did not fully expect the very responses you got to your story.
SNIP
Do they, or even us men, know what it's like to not be able to have an erection for 20 years? Would being healed from that be worthy of maybe a little bit of enthusiasm? At least he wasn't walking and leaping and ... whatever.
Larry, yes I did notice that you at least allowed for the possibility that the guy just acted spontaneously without thinking. I guess when I said "your comments aren't worth responding to" it was with distinction, not without exception. Sure, removed from its context, what the guy did was, at the least, inappropriate, but these women gripe at me saying I don't have meaningful input because I don't know what it's like to be pinned down and raped. Do they, or even us men, know what it's like to not be able to have an erection for 20 years? Would being healed from that be worthy of maybe a little bit of enthusiasm? At least he wasn't walking and leaping and ... whatever.
John, I dont recall ever saying that your input was without meaning. I recall saying that it was without understanding in reference specifically to the single word "rape". Not that you named me specifically but I wanted to clarify since I could be one of "these women".
And you are right I would have no true understanding of what it would be like to be impotent. But I imagine that I would be excited if it were healed. That does not excuse the unconcerned behavior of everyone else in the class to an inappropriate action, however unintentional or unthinking it might have been.
quote: But I imagine that I would be excited if it were healed. That does ot excuse the unconcerned behavior of everyone else in the class to an inappropriate action, however unintentional or unthinking it might have been.
I didn't even find out about this until a week after the class was over. I was told it happened during a prayer and the woman just kept her cool. She was not married at the time but she married 3 years or so later (not to the 70 something). I guess I don't know that there was no discussion about it in private later on, but I still saw the 70 yr old at limb functions after this happened. Like I said, it was no big deal. No federal case was made of it.
I didn't even find out about this until a week after the class was over. I was told it happened during a prayer and the woman just kept her cool. She was not married at the time but she married 3 years or so later (not to the 70 something). I guess I don't know that there was no discussion about it in private later on, but I still saw the 70 yr old at limb functions after this happened. Like I said, it was no big deal. No federal case was made of it.
I think I can understand why you say that it was no big deal. Nobody that you made a big deal out of it that you know of. Had I been the person in charge of that class I feel confident that I would have taken that man aside and after telling him how pleased I was for his healing I would have spoken to him about the innappropriate action. I would have followed that up with a private discussion with the woman and if nothing else an apology would have been given by the man to the woman. Other members of the class would have no idea that any of this took place unless one of the participants spoke up.
Had I been the person in charge of that class I feel confident that I would have taken that man aside and after telling him how pleased I was for his healing I would have spoken to him about the innappropriate action. I would have followed that up with a private discussion with the woman and if nothing else an apology would have been given by the man to the woman. Other members of the class would have no idea that any of this took place unless one of the participants spoke up.
Eyes, this is exactly how I would have handled it.
I would hope that the man apologizes. If not, I could always take my shark teeth outta the glass and persuade him. ;)
I think I can understand why you say that it was no big deal. Nobody that you made a big deal out of it that you know of. Had I been the person in charge of that class I feel confident that I would have taken that man aside and after telling him how pleased I was for his healing I would have spoken to him about the innappropriate action. I would have followed that up with a private discussion with the woman and if nothing else an apology would have been given by the man to the woman. Other members of the class would have no idea that any of this took place unless one of the participants spoke up.
“Had you been in charge of the class”... I’m just guessing here!...Maybe it would have given the old geaser a “rise” to the occasion, if you had “taken that man aside” and given him an “oral” understanding of just how pleased you were for his healing!
Then you could have had a private discussion with the woman and told her about how all of it was a complete “misunderstanding”!
Could we “stage” this event for a limp meeting? It might have made for a CF&S addition?
The “other members of the class” would have remained clueless, because obviously they all were!! I’m sorry, but it’s late over here. But this was a real attention grabber!
Never let it be said on GSC that the deacons don't deac and the elders don't eld. So how's the view from the cheap seats guys? At least I was THERE. Your comments aren't worth responding to.
I didn't even find out about this until a week after the class was over. I was told it happened during a prayer and the woman just kept her cool. She was not married at the time but she married 3 years or so later (not to the 70 something). I guess I don't know that there was no discussion about it in private later on, but I still saw the 70 yr old at limb functions after this happened. Like I said, it was no big deal. No federal case was made of it.
Let's see, you were there, but you found out about it a week later? :huh:
Edited by Oakspear
“Had you been in charge of the class”... I’m just guessing here!...Maybe it would have given the old geaser a “rise” to the occasion, if you had “taken that man aside” and given him an “oral” understanding of just how pleased you were for his healing!
Then you could have had a private discussion with the woman and told her about how all of it was a complete “misunderstanding”!
Could we “stage” this event for a limp meeting? It might have made for a CF&S addition?
The “other members of the class” would have remained clueless, because obviously they all were!! I’m sorry, but it’s late over here. But this was a real attention grabber!
quote: I didn't even find out about this until a week after the class was over. I was told it happened during a prayer and the woman just kept her cool. She was not married at the time but she married 3 years or so later (not to the 70 something). I guess I don't know that there was no discussion about it in private later on, but I still saw the 70 yr old at limb functions after this happened. Like I said, it was no big deal. No federal case was made of it.
You can't make a federal case out of hearsay... :biglaugh:
Okay Johniam, I see what you mean. OTOH - I also don't see HOW a big deal could have been made out of this. There was no appropriate way to call attention to the rest of the students while the class was going on, IMHO.
BTW - I have never bashed you in these forums....I've not appreciated some of your words - but "man-bashing" has never been in my repetoire...
I do not recall CF&S being or having any sort of discussion format at all. I do recall a branch coordinator discussing his & wife's choices on birth control as some addition to the class materials, but it was not a group discussion or even a Q&A format..
I don't recall any TWI class that had open discussions as an actual part of the class. They were all lecture type classes.
How did man bashing get into this? Did I miss something...
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Mark Clarke
I still believe those few things, with one qualification. We were taught we didn't go to heaven "right away" as you put it. But they were rather vague about what happens in the end. I believe we do
Catcup
Since leaving TWI, I have kind of devolved back almost to where my beliefs were just before getting into TWI. Although in my family we were raised Southern Baptist, we never believed Jesus was God.
GrouchoMarxJr
Unlike oldies, I believe that the majority of what was taught in pfal was wrong... However, as a Christian, I do believe in "eventual" eternal life and I believe that Jesus was the son of God and not
oldiesman
AnotherDan, Thanks for sharing. You've so eloquently summed up feelings of mine about VP as well.
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Ham
let it not be said that she deprived one of it's proper respiration, either.
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Abigail
Larry, check your PM's, please. :)
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George Aar
I got an erection the other day.
I was so blessed I just had to share the miraculous event with somebody!
The produce man at Kroger's wasn't that impressed...
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johniam
OK, I thought of something. This all reminds me of a story my mother told me once. She said that when she was married before the kids came, she had to go to the doctor for a sore ankle. This was during the 1930s. The doctor asked her how it happened and she said to him, "My husband and I were horsing around and I lost my balance and fell off the bed." For you dark ages people, the phrase 'horsing around' is referring to foreplay.
But the doctor just LOOKED at her like she was evil or something. She thought, "What a creep!" and didn't go to that doctor anymore. I said that the ATMOSPHERE was what was so special about CFS. Most of you are so brainwashed by our current male bashing culture that you can't even imagine a casual atmosphere where people can calmly and safely discuss sexual matters without prompting a witch hunt.
One poster claimed that I thought that what the man did was what was beautiful. But it's OK to misrepresent, isn't it? "At least it's not PLAGIARISM!", right?
Larry, yes I did notice that you at least allowed for the possibility that the guy just acted spontaneously without thinking. I guess when I said "your comments aren't worth responding to" it was with distinction, not without exception. Sure, removed from its context, what the guy did was, at the least, inappropriate, but these women gripe at me saying I don't have meaningful input because I don't know what it's like to be pinned down and raped. Do they, or even us men, know what it's like to not be able to have an erection for 20 years? Would being healed from that be worthy of maybe a little bit of enthusiasm? At least he wasn't walking and leaping and ... whatever.
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Abigail
ROFLMAO
Well, if you've seen one cucumber you've seen them all, I guess! ;)
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Abigail
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Larry N Moore
I did. Thanks Abi. I'll respond when I find more time.
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oldiesman
They may have crabs.
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Eyesopen
John, I dont recall ever saying that your input was without meaning. I recall saying that it was without understanding in reference specifically to the single word "rape". Not that you named me specifically but I wanted to clarify since I could be one of "these women".
And you are right I would have no true understanding of what it would be like to be impotent. But I imagine that I would be excited if it were healed. That does not excuse the unconcerned behavior of everyone else in the class to an inappropriate action, however unintentional or unthinking it might have been.
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johniam
quote: But I imagine that I would be excited if it were healed. That does ot excuse the unconcerned behavior of everyone else in the class to an inappropriate action, however unintentional or unthinking it might have been.
I didn't even find out about this until a week after the class was over. I was told it happened during a prayer and the woman just kept her cool. She was not married at the time but she married 3 years or so later (not to the 70 something). I guess I don't know that there was no discussion about it in private later on, but I still saw the 70 yr old at limb functions after this happened. Like I said, it was no big deal. No federal case was made of it.
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Eyesopen
I think I can understand why you say that it was no big deal. Nobody that you made a big deal out of it that you know of. Had I been the person in charge of that class I feel confident that I would have taken that man aside and after telling him how pleased I was for his healing I would have spoken to him about the innappropriate action. I would have followed that up with a private discussion with the woman and if nothing else an apology would have been given by the man to the woman. Other members of the class would have no idea that any of this took place unless one of the participants spoke up.
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T-Bone
Now think for a moment - do you remember if you were standing next to the zucchini? I would have stood by the string beans.
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Larry N Moore
Eyes, this is exactly how I would have handled it.
I would hope that the man apologizes. If not, I could always take my shark teeth outta the glass and persuade him. ;)
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Bumpy
“Had you been in charge of the class”... I’m just guessing here!...Maybe it would have given the old geaser a “rise” to the occasion, if you had “taken that man aside” and given him an “oral” understanding of just how pleased you were for his healing!
Then you could have had a private discussion with the woman and told her about how all of it was a complete “misunderstanding”!
Could we “stage” this event for a limp meeting? It might have made for a CF&S addition?
The “other members of the class” would have remained clueless, because obviously they all were!! I’m sorry, but it’s late over here. But this was a real attention grabber!
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Oakspear
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Eyesopen
I just bet it was...
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excathedra
glad you were
and as far as veepee feeling uncomfortable showing his smutstuff
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
--
you can tell i just sorta skimmed a bit here and there
is that illegal ?
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doojable
You can't make a federal case out of hearsay...
:biglaugh: 
Okay Johniam, I see what you mean. OTOH - I also don't see HOW a big deal could have been made out of this. There was no appropriate way to call attention to the rest of the students while the class was going on, IMHO.
BTW - I have never bashed you in these forums....I've not appreciated some of your words - but "man-bashing" has never been in my repetoire...
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Bramble
I do not recall CF&S being or having any sort of discussion format at all. I do recall a branch coordinator discussing his & wife's choices on birth control as some addition to the class materials, but it was not a group discussion or even a Q&A format..
I don't recall any TWI class that had open discussions as an actual part of the class. They were all lecture type classes.
How did man bashing get into this? Did I miss something...
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waysider
When I was involved in the presentation of this class, (mid 70s), it did break down, at various points, into discussion groups.
The discussion was focused on the material that had just been covered.
It was a bit like Listening With A Porpoise but allowed for genuine conversation.
Thank goodness it never broke down into "excellor sessions"!!
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excathedra
no kidding
how would you excel with a hot rod gasket or something ? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah
but we did have little group meetings too
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anotherDan
waysider.... LOL!
"seek that ye may excel to the edifying of your partner."
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WhiteDove
Some of my favorite Christian Family and Sex Song Picks
Rise up O men of God
How long has it been?
Face to Face
We Don't know when He's coming.
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