WhiteDove - I have was not referring to you in the last post you quoted. In fact, I even said so. I don't think you're a Pharisee, I do think that you are sticking to your model a little too aggressively - but you have said that that is what you need to do for your life.
I'm not sure I know where the "pieces that don't fit in the spaces" are for you. I know that you don't have an eyewitness - but you do have expert testimony. Here in the forums it would be pointless to ask for an eyewitness, because your standard for such would have to not include the internet (I think I have that right.) Furthermore, there is usually not an eyewitness in rape.
On the other hand, you have said that you are inclined to believe VP did do these things.
I knew you were not. But thanks anyway.
Your wrong though we do have an eyewitness according to (Catcup) she said so, right after she verified everything.
(9) And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
(10) Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
(11) The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
(12) I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
(13) And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
(14) I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
As I see it... here....
Two believers went to Greasespot to discuss the cult they used to be in and find themselves in a discussion...
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God I stand for the truth and will not fold or bend without proof. I stand for truth. I stand for the law and the bearings required by law have not been met. Therefore, I stand before all, righteous, as I did not bend but stood. I stand upon your word.
And the publican, standing afar off, felt dirty and would not even lift up their eyes, Father, I do not know what happened I was looking for you, truly seeking you God, and instead I was sexually raped by a man who claimed to know you, I feel so stupid and ugly, I have not been able to find my backbone or my core for twenty years, if you will but scrape me off the side walk and breath life back into me, I will seek you again and try to find all I can be in you.... I lay before you, face down breathe your life into me so I may rise up and find myself again.
It took excat, all of Waydale and about 8 years here to tell her story in one page. She would dribble things out like a child unable to articulate what had happened. One post she may just say ...like Weirwolf did to me. 6 months later sarcastically, "yes, he healed me!" A year later, "watch out for that motor coach."
When she drizzled her story out, she has been met with wrath and distain. She would delete the fragments she was brave enough to write - then withdrawal. One time, tired of her taking YEARS to drizzle the story out, and having people think she looked like she couldn't complete a sentence, I put all her sentences together and posted them. She called me hysterical 'cause she could not look at the words, they hurt too much.
Now, she put it all together finally. In a readable format. And she was met by insensitivity, pharisaical attitudes and inanity it has been beyond cruel.
From people telling her that maybe VP was trying to heal her, yes, heal childhood rape – by adult rape. To saying, perhaps she choose him, to demanding blue dress proof...
I am glad that our Lord does not treat us the way you people have treated this woman excath, Catcup and poor Marsha here. It was so bad, I bet the heavens wept. And to think some of you are comfortable with that is appalling. And what gets me is YOU people think you are standing for the God of love written of in the Bible.
One of you, even seemed to derive pleasure out of her crumbling. May God deal with you accordingly. I have loved some of you, one of you ordained and a favorite of mine, and now I am in a state of shock that YOU people who have shown warmth and compassion for animals, could rise to such meanness to a harmed believer. Shame on you and your hard hearts.
Not quite how the story went but it's your fiction you can write it anyway you like.
Your wrong though we do have an eyewitness according to (Catcup) she said so, right after she verified everything.
WhiteDove - I would drop this point if I were you...
Catcup is a trained professional who was able to assess what she saw and heard. In a court of law what she witnessed might even be called "excited utterance," which is very strong and almost equals an eyewitness account.
It really comes down to this: There are women who were abused and need prayer and healing because they trusted a man to act on God's behalf.
In a way - not much else matters. Well except that we all need prayer.
Perhaps you can extrapolate the words of the Bible into current situations, I hope you are not too be too rigid for that.
Here is one
Luke 13:10-16
Now He was teaching in one of the synagogues on the Sabbath. And behold, there was a woman who had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bent over and could in no way raise herself up. But when Jesus saw her, He called her to Him and said to her, "Woman, you are loosed from your infirmity." And He laid His hands on her, and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God. But the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath; and he said to the crowd, "There are six days on which men ought to work; therefore come and be healed on them, and not on the Sabbath day." The Lord then answered him and said, "Hypocrite! Does not each one of you on the Sabbath loose his ox or donkey from the stall, and lead it away to water it? So ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has bound think of it for eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath?"
He did not do it on the correct day, (paraphrase) Marsha put herself in harms way therefore what she DESERVED it? Excath did not reveal her name therefore we shall shun her account of what happened or there is no eyewitness (paraphrase), how perfect does one have to be to function in your world Dove?
Come on off the high horse, you might find people who really do care about YOU, imperfections and all. Jesus could heal us even if we pray for each other via screen names, Jesus would hear us even if we walked down an alley at 3:00 AM, or go back to the scene of the accident.
Come on down and have a cup of coffee. I feel you come across differently than the gentler soul I have seen in you. I can only think that you have also been painfully hurt by the face meltings and other cultish things, I am sorry for your pain, and I believe you even though you use a screen name and I have NEVER witnessed your face meltings
Charity is love in action.
1 Corinthians 13 - Love
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
For now we see through a glass, darkly, but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
We are not perfect Dove, not you or me, but I know we are better than this (the fighting on this thread, and the unkind words toward the injured)
I've read this entire thread and I don't know what to say except thank you excathedra, Dot, Cat for speaking up. You will probably never fully know the good you have done by telling the truth.
As for the disgusting behavior of certain posters...it just makes me sick. It literally makes me sick at my stomach. The hard cold uncaring unfeeling unrepentatent downright nasty dirty evil behavior of these "brothers" is beyond me. Their words have revealed the putrid contamination bubbling out of their vic-worshiping hearts.
This is for Excie, Marsha, Dot, Rascal, Catcup, et al. For all who have been hurt, yet still open their hearts and lives so others may learn - He does but one thing, He opens his arms.
Jesus started the ultimate group hug! :) And this is one we should all join in.
Incredible post BTW Sun...
And the publican, standing afar off, felt dirty and would not even lift up their eyes, Father, I do not know what happened I was looking for you, truly seeking you God, and instead I was sexually raped by a man who claimed to know you, I feel so stupid and ugly, I have not been able to find my backbone or my core for twenty years, if you will but scrape me off the side walk and breath life back into me, I will seek you again and try to find all I can be in you.... I lay before you, face down breathe your life into me so I may rise up and find myself again.
Wow! This just nails it...the utter revulsion that one feels crawling under their skin, like a stink that just wont scrub off no matter how much blood you draw. It's a feeling of disgust that is directed at your own life, you look in the mirror and see a person that bears the face of someone that you once knew and perhaps even loved. But the person behind the face is afraid and ugly, completely devoid of any redeemable characteristics. Some people desperately try to erase the face in the mirror, to change it beyond any further recognition. Others embrace the evil thing...and become it.
And it really isn't the outside that should concern anyone, because so many things can hide behind masks. It's the inside, the sickening rot that starts in the quiet peaceful recesses of the soul and grows. If left unchecked it can become as profuse as a berry bush. It will intertwine itself into every crack and crevise of your life, sticking thorns into all that was once good and staining your soul with its deadly fruit. Before you know it the face in the mirror has something dark and sad growing behind it. It took no real effort for this cancer to be there but it will take years of hard work trying to cut it out again. But the stain...it always remains...there is never enough bleach.
But God and Jesus Christ can heal it all. They can make the thorns die rendering them useless. Their love can cause a person to love that face again. They can breathe life back into those that feel that they would be happier if they were dead. Death would cause the pain and humiliation to stop. But God can cause it to stop too. And He should be our first choice not our second.
It's okay baby, you just have a big heart
I probably do...but don't tell anyone, it will ruin my reputation.
As for the disgusting behavior of certain posters...it just makes me sick. It literally makes me sick at my stomach. The hard cold uncaring unfeeling unrepentatent downright nasty dirty evil behavior of these "brothers" is beyond me. Their words have revealed the putrid contamination bubbling out of their vic-worshiping hearts.
OMG! When I find the time I'm going to have to read this whole thread to see what was said that gave rise to your disgust. I'm especially curious to discover how the thread went from "A few big things I learned taking PFAL." to -- You vic-worshipers disgust me. My, oh my!
He did not do it on the correct day, (paraphrase) Marsha put herself in harms way therefore what she DESERVED it?
She didn't deserve it; Dr. Wierwille was still wrong regardless.
However an old Chinese proverb comes into play here: FOOL ME ONCE, SHAME ON YOU; FOOL ME TWICE, SHAME ON ME
or,
"Anyone who falls for the same deceit twice must accept responsibility for his own gullibility; thus, one should be more watchful the second time around."
Originally a child's saying." From the "Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings" by Gregory Y. Titelman (Random House, New York, 1996).
Oldies, most of us wouldn`t have considered meeting with our minister *in harms way* Most of us, even if suspiscious wouldn`t have dreamed that the drink being served was drugged. Most of us believed our minister when he said that he had all answeres to life and Godliness and that he could heal us.
Call it naevity, call it a last ditch hope for healing and peace, call it a foolish willingness to believe the best of every one....but please stop accusing marsha of having done something wrong.
If it wasn`t a big deal...something that these women wanted...but needed the drugged drinks enough to relax and enjoy....then I do not believe that the damage wrought would have been so significant or bear life long impact.
I don`t understand focusing on marsha instead of being absolutely outraged over what her trusted minister did.
Doreen isn`t the only person here. In case you haven`t noticed, other folks have been helped. It`s a good thing :)
Well, seeing as how this thread is 34 pages long I can imagine that Doreen isn't the only one here (especially since doing a search of her posts reveals she's only contributed to it twice). But I don't see how the fact that "other folks have been helped" addresses my point when the topic was "A few things I learned taking PFAL" turned into -- "You vic-worshipers disgust me!" That in itself makes the topic worth reading through (when I have the time to do so).
Well kindda silly to discount a threads value when you haven`t read it isn`t it?
Doreen had a choice to participate or not. God is working to heal hearts and lives right here...that is a good thing ...whether it follows a single posters intentions or not. :)
Well kindda silly to discount a threads value when you haven`t read it isn`t it?
From what I actually said -- how did you arrive at this conclusion?
Doreen had a choice to participate or not. God is working to heal hearts and lives right here...that is a good thing ...whether it follows a single posters intentions or not. :)
Healing hearts and lives is always a good thing. You can start a topic about that subject if you like. All I know is the topic heading reads "A few big things I learned taking PFAL" and then I read someone saying "You vic-worshipers disgusts me!" Since you don't want to address how the subject turned from the former to the latter I'm left to discover for myself how it did.
Guess you oughtta read the entire thread to see how it evolved to that before making up your mind then eh fella?
If you didn`t notice there were two parts to the thread title...*and DO you still believe it* :)
Most of the discussion has been as it pertains to the second part of the question and why.
I guess when people behave in a totally reprehensible manner and resort to personal attacks then they can tend to inspire the disgust voiced in the afor mentioned post.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
118
103
143
114
Popular Days
Aug 4
146
Jul 30
140
Jul 31
123
Aug 1
99
Top Posters In This Topic
rascal 118 posts
oldiesman 103 posts
doojable 143 posts
Larry N Moore 114 posts
Popular Days
Aug 4 2007
146 posts
Jul 30 2007
140 posts
Jul 31 2007
123 posts
Aug 1 2007
99 posts
Popular Posts
Mark Clarke
I still believe those few things, with one qualification. We were taught we didn't go to heaven "right away" as you put it. But they were rather vague about what happens in the end. I believe we do
Catcup
Since leaving TWI, I have kind of devolved back almost to where my beliefs were just before getting into TWI. Although in my family we were raised Southern Baptist, we never believed Jesus was God.
GrouchoMarxJr
Unlike oldies, I believe that the majority of what was taught in pfal was wrong... However, as a Christian, I do believe in "eventual" eternal life and I believe that Jesus was the son of God and not
WhiteDove
[quote name='doojable'
WhiteDove - I have was not referring to you in the last post you quoted. In fact, I even said so. I don't think you're a Pharisee, I do think that you are sticking to your model a little too aggressively - but you have said that that is what you need to do for your life.
I'm not sure I know where the "pieces that don't fit in the spaces" are for you. I know that you don't have an eyewitness - but you do have expert testimony. Here in the forums it would be pointless to ask for an eyewitness, because your standard for such would have to not include the internet (I think I have that right.) Furthermore, there is usually not an eyewitness in rape.
On the other hand, you have said that you are inclined to believe VP did do these things.
I knew you were not. But thanks anyway.
Your wrong though we do have an eyewitness according to (Catcup) she said so, right after she verified everything.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Not quite how the story went but it's your fiction you can write it anyway you like.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
WhiteDove - I would drop this point if I were you...
Catcup is a trained professional who was able to assess what she saw and heard. In a court of law what she witnessed might even be called "excited utterance," which is very strong and almost equals an eyewitness account.
It really comes down to this: There are women who were abused and need prayer and healing because they trusted a man to act on God's behalf.
In a way - not much else matters. Well except that we all need prayer.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
i'm game
plus i like the ((((((((((((((( group ))))))))))))))) hug idea too
peace out
(spoken like a true 13 year old, my boy)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
WD
Perhaps you can extrapolate the words of the Bible into current situations, I hope you are not too be too rigid for that.
Here is one
Luke 13:10-16
Now He was teaching in one of the synagogues on the Sabbath. And behold, there was a woman who had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bent over and could in no way raise herself up. But when Jesus saw her, He called her to Him and said to her, "Woman, you are loosed from your infirmity." And He laid His hands on her, and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God. But the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath; and he said to the crowd, "There are six days on which men ought to work; therefore come and be healed on them, and not on the Sabbath day." The Lord then answered him and said, "Hypocrite! Does not each one of you on the Sabbath loose his ox or donkey from the stall, and lead it away to water it? So ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has bound think of it for eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath?"
He did not do it on the correct day, (paraphrase) Marsha put herself in harms way therefore what she DESERVED it? Excath did not reveal her name therefore we shall shun her account of what happened or there is no eyewitness (paraphrase), how perfect does one have to be to function in your world Dove?
Come on off the high horse, you might find people who really do care about YOU, imperfections and all. Jesus could heal us even if we pray for each other via screen names, Jesus would hear us even if we walked down an alley at 3:00 AM, or go back to the scene of the accident.
Come on down and have a cup of coffee. I feel you come across differently than the gentler soul I have seen in you. I can only think that you have also been painfully hurt by the face meltings and other cultish things, I am sorry for your pain, and I believe you even though you use a screen name and I have NEVER witnessed your face meltings
Charity is love in action.
1 Corinthians 13 - Love
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
For now we see through a glass, darkly, but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
We are not perfect Dove, not you or me, but I know we are better than this (the fighting on this thread, and the unkind words toward the injured)
I know we are.
Edited by Dot MatrixLink to comment
Share on other sites
tonto
I've read this entire thread and I don't know what to say except thank you excathedra, Dot, Cat for speaking up. You will probably never fully know the good you have done by telling the truth.
As for the disgusting behavior of certain posters...it just makes me sick. It literally makes me sick at my stomach. The hard cold uncaring unfeeling unrepentatent downright nasty dirty evil behavior of these "brothers" is beyond me. Their words have revealed the putrid contamination bubbling out of their vic-worshiping hearts.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Eyesopen
Jesus started the ultimate group hug! :) And this is one we should all join in.
Incredible post BTW Sun...
Wow! This just nails it...the utter revulsion that one feels crawling under their skin, like a stink that just wont scrub off no matter how much blood you draw. It's a feeling of disgust that is directed at your own life, you look in the mirror and see a person that bears the face of someone that you once knew and perhaps even loved. But the person behind the face is afraid and ugly, completely devoid of any redeemable characteristics. Some people desperately try to erase the face in the mirror, to change it beyond any further recognition. Others embrace the evil thing...and become it.
And it really isn't the outside that should concern anyone, because so many things can hide behind masks. It's the inside, the sickening rot that starts in the quiet peaceful recesses of the soul and grows. If left unchecked it can become as profuse as a berry bush. It will intertwine itself into every crack and crevise of your life, sticking thorns into all that was once good and staining your soul with its deadly fruit. Before you know it the face in the mirror has something dark and sad growing behind it. It took no real effort for this cancer to be there but it will take years of hard work trying to cut it out again. But the stain...it always remains...there is never enough bleach.
But God and Jesus Christ can heal it all. They can make the thorns die rendering them useless. Their love can cause a person to love that face again. They can breathe life back into those that feel that they would be happier if they were dead. Death would cause the pain and humiliation to stop. But God can cause it to stop too. And He should be our first choice not our second.
I probably do...but don't tell anyone, it will ruin my reputation.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Larry N Moore
OMG! When I find the time I'm going to have to read this whole thread to see what was said that gave rise to your disgust. I'm especially curious to discover how the thread went from "A few big things I learned taking PFAL." to -- You vic-worshipers disgust me. My, oh my!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
She didn't deserve it; Dr. Wierwille was still wrong regardless.
However an old Chinese proverb comes into play here: FOOL ME ONCE, SHAME ON YOU; FOOL ME TWICE, SHAME ON ME
or,
"Anyone who falls for the same deceit twice must accept responsibility for his own gullibility; thus, one should be more watchful the second time around."
Originally a child's saying." From the "Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings" by Gregory Y. Titelman (Random House, New York, 1996).
Link to comment
Share on other sites
J0nny Ling0
It sounds pretty dang touchy feely to me, but I'm game. If you'll have me...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Sunesis...thank you.
Oldies, most of us wouldn`t have considered meeting with our minister *in harms way* Most of us, even if suspiscious wouldn`t have dreamed that the drink being served was drugged. Most of us believed our minister when he said that he had all answeres to life and Godliness and that he could heal us.
Call it naevity, call it a last ditch hope for healing and peace, call it a foolish willingness to believe the best of every one....but please stop accusing marsha of having done something wrong.
If it wasn`t a big deal...something that these women wanted...but needed the drugged drinks enough to relax and enjoy....then I do not believe that the damage wrought would have been so significant or bear life long impact.
I don`t understand focusing on marsha instead of being absolutely outraged over what her trusted minister did.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
My cyber character will hug anyone; it doesn't mind. :P
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Dot....you always seem to believe the best in people.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Larry N Moore
Maybe that "group hug" thingy will bring doreen back to this topic. She seems to have been driven off of it. I wonder why.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Doreen isn`t the only person here. In case you haven`t noticed, other folks have been helped. It`s a good thing :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Eyesopen
Ahh Jonny, You know that you are invited to any group hug! Everyone is! But watch the "touchy feely" part.
Ok...we got two for the group hug...anyone else?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Larry N Moore
Well, seeing as how this thread is 34 pages long I can imagine that Doreen isn't the only one here (especially since doing a search of her posts reveals she's only contributed to it twice). But I don't see how the fact that "other folks have been helped" addresses my point when the topic was "A few things I learned taking PFAL" turned into -- "You vic-worshipers disgust me!" That in itself makes the topic worth reading through (when I have the time to do so).
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Eyesopen
That makes three.... :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Larry N Moore
Me! Me!
I'm always ready for one of them thar things.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Eyesopen
Yes it is...now that I've stopped being so emotional...
Woo Hoo! Are we on a roll this morning....any other takers on the group hug?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Well kindda silly to discount a threads value when you haven`t read it isn`t it?
Doreen had a choice to participate or not. God is working to heal hearts and lives right here...that is a good thing ...whether it follows a single posters intentions or not. :)
I`d hug you any day ((((((Eyes)))))
Link to comment
Share on other sites
wrdsandwrks
Sure count me in. (((((all you guys)))))
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Larry N Moore
From what I actually said -- how did you arrive at this conclusion?
Healing hearts and lives is always a good thing. You can start a topic about that subject if you like. All I know is the topic heading reads "A few big things I learned taking PFAL" and then I read someone saying "You vic-worshipers disgusts me!" Since you don't want to address how the subject turned from the former to the latter I'm left to discover for myself how it did.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Guess you oughtta read the entire thread to see how it evolved to that before making up your mind then eh fella?
If you didn`t notice there were two parts to the thread title...*and DO you still believe it* :)
Most of the discussion has been as it pertains to the second part of the question and why.
I guess when people behave in a totally reprehensible manner and resort to personal attacks then they can tend to inspire the disgust voiced in the afor mentioned post.
Edited by rascalLink to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.