A Few Big Things I Learned Taking PFAL

[excathedra]

ps. please spare me what i could have done differently. i've spent more time on that than anyone here

ha i just sounded like the alcoholic in the class

[waysider]

For the first time in my life, the Bible made sense. :)

"For the first time in my life, the Bible made sense."

Gee, now where was it I heard that exact quote, word for word, before?

Oh, wait!----

Now I remember!

It was in the PFAL class( spoken by Mr. Wierwille, himself.)

Oh, shoot, you probably already knew that.

The *numero uno* lesson I learned in PFAL was that you should never, ever allow yourself to even consider that what you once thought was God's word, may have been a misrepresentation of the truth.

That's what Eve did and look what it got her. Shudder!

(Session #7 for those who absolutely MUST have documentation.)

Nope. Never budge. STAND!!

HeeHeeHee.

Sounds more like an exercise in self perpetuating delusions than an honest and open approach to expanding one's mental and academic horizons.

But, hey!----That's just my opinion.

(Which I arrived at by *considering* and even------gasp!--------*doubting* some of the things I have learned in the past.

[ex10]

Thanks for telling it, sisex. :wub:

[excathedra]

marsha, catcup's sister, many girls i've talked to through the years.... real people.... true devastation

peace

--

peace (as my son would say ~ that's what they say before they hang up the phone on each other, isn't that nice ?)

[alfakat]

p--roof, scha-mooff, what are ya gonna do with it IF you had your proof ??????

take it to the bank?????

I, also, knew M*arsha quite well when we were in the 6ckk kork together and NEVER could figure out what had happened on her interim year. Hope Rich directly questioned Vince F about this whole thing after we graduated and was told the F*C*ING stock way dazed answer: SHE IS POZAZZED.

Nice, eh WD, OLDIESFART, and other ostritch-types.....

You folks are WILLINGLY blind; you have WILLED to be and therefore, CANNOT see.... :asdf:

I have asked you chicken-sh**s this question before, 3 or 4 times and NEVER once received an answer.

At 45, 50, 55, 60 -- whatever age you are, HOW MANY have gone out and had SEX with tennagers and 20-somethings; you know, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24 , 25 year olds that you are a minimum 30, 35, 40 years their senior; even ONCE??????????

Now how about making it your life-style????????? How about having other young women(girls) set you up with them????????

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.

.

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AND YOU ARE A CHRISTIAn MINISTER WITH REVELATION FROM GOD ALMIGHTY NOT KNOWN SINCE THE FIRST CENTURY??????? (don't like the shouting? TOUGH SH-*T......

and this is just some sin, eh??? huh, some kinda wacko religion ya got there, son.....

[rascal]

You know, the impact on these girls seems to have been pretty significant and life altering. I find it difficult to read of people trying to pass it off like it was no big deal really....

I say, a genuine christian just simply does not DO these things.

[ex10]

Not only that, rascal, most well adjusted middle aged men do not do these things, as Alfakat pointed out.

[waysider]

Might as well save your breath, Alfakat.

Only those who are daring enough to -----HORRORS!-------- "consider" what you are saying, will be able to make sense of it.

And those *ain't* the ones who need to hear it.

Enjoyed your post immensely, just the same.

[excathedra]

dear pond, i wanted to thank you for some of the great stuff you said on here

the only reason i PM'd you my thanks was because there were other people i wanted to respond the same too

[excathedra]

And don't worry White Dove, I know how easy it is to get tangled up with that bunch...

hey lingo, alfa and waysider in that bunch ?

they are MEN

[Dot Matrix]

i brought up marsha's story (i hope she's not around)

i got into "the way ministry" toward the end of my freshman year in college. i was 18 going on 19

i was very excited and thankful and all that. it was at this time the good doctor was pheasant hunting and came to see "his girls" (i was just a thrilled tag-along newbie)

i couldn't wait to meet this special man -- THE TEACHER

i went over to the college-wow-all-girl way home because he was actually there IN PERSON !!!!!!!

i walked past the bathroom door -- it was open -- glanced to the left -- where he turned and smiled at me and exposed himself. the gal undershepherding me said something like, "isn't he great, he's so spiritual, he doesn't even think about the flesh....." something along those lines....

i won't bore you with the details of how he (over a few years) counseled me about my childhoodm the incest, the heartbreak, dah dah dah

fast forward (i'm leaving out so much) to my interim year. i was 23. i believe i turned 23 at advanced class '79 which was the end of my first year in residence (trying to document things here in case there's a judge on this thread). anyway, on my interim year, i desparately wanted a ride from one campus to another to see my fiance. i didn't think dr. would try to heal me anymore since i was engaged. he hadn't been successful at healing me thus far because i told him i just couldn't understand, i wasn't spiritual enough, and ran away in tears (more than once)

so then we had a few drinks on the long ride, much to my relief, because i was nervous

the next thing i remember is looking into these cold dead eyes and then viewing the incident from up above like i was on the ceiling

looking back, i figured it was probably a disassociating mechanism

somewhere toward the wee hours of the morning, i was over on another bed (don't remember how i got there)

there was this thing being poked in my face - the bed was the perfect level - and i played dead (deader than a door nail)

it finally went away. i mean the good dr. finally went away

--

so i'm the eyewitness to this one

(i'm so sorry for marsha)

--

knowing all the books of the bible just ain't cranked up to what it used to be (how does that saying go ?)

When you say, i didn't think dr. would try to heal me anymore since i was engaged" - you mean when he tried to grop your breasts and "get" you to consent but you didn't (For all the folks who think girls could say "no" She did, then it appears he drugged her in a drink.)

The "thing" being poked at you was his penis - looking to "take" you again without your consent?

MMmmmm sounds like rape to me.

[Dot Matrix]

Alfa

I agree with your post, I think what "they" think is that VP made a "mistake"

It was NOT a mistake it was inner circle doctrine. That is not a mistake. It is a way of life, it is what you believe, sell, push and demand.

It did not matter that Ex said NO repeatedly. He decided he would "take" her against her will - KNOWING she turned him down, he gave her drinks (drinks that made her feel different, and loose some time) then, we hear later that girls were being drugged.

People, this is not a great man who made a mistake. He was a calculating bas$ tard.... No one is going to say no to "me".... It is a privilage to be with "me" (moggie) This is doctrine, this kind of thinking was at his core.

Edited August 1, 2007 by Dot Matrix

[excathedra]

oh yeah, are wordwolf, oakspear, exwaycorp etc part of the "bunch"

who is the bunch so i stop this

[J0nny Ling0]

"To whom it is written" has always been a favorite part of PFAL for me. For instance, Romans 3:20

"because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight;"

This, written to the Church of the One Body to which we Christians belong to today, seems to be in direct contrast to being made righteous by observing the Passover and commandments given in the Old Testament, for instance. What a pleasant and heart warming truth to know. Thankful to know that I do not need to take a cute little lamby and kill it, and then go through all of the ritual prescribed to those who were under the Law. We have been justified once and for all through the Lamb.

hey lingo, alfa and waysider in that bunch ?

they are MEN

I know they are MEN, "thedra". So what?

Edited August 1, 2007 by Jonny Lingo

[pond]

make no mistake .

it is my understanding that johhny is upset because he can not enjoy a post without the storys of these girls being brought up.

he has issue with this being and EX way site i guess.

and inmho White dove lives in a very conservative place of right and wrong and get rid of those who do not get it.

well maybe not get rid of but discussion isnt logical unless it has all the t and x crossed, and i do think he is right most often as i have said it is ironic these claims come up decades after vpw died and he never once was charged when alive. he does help keep the story straight very much. and he is polite never rude .

i accept we will never really know the truth on this arena . a public internet with cult people .

i think feelings go strongly here and a good discussion is had by all.

as far as comparing bible characters to leaders in twi... that is to much for me , i also do not think christians are mini Jesus as twi taught. christ in you the hope of glory got way out of hand for people and their ego's.

[excathedra]

i won't address you anymore lingo. at least i'll try not to

okay okay i lied

never mind what i said about men

did you read my post about what happened to me ?

Thankful to know that I do not need to take a cute little lamby and kill it

too bad dr. wierwille didn't know that

[waysider]

Hiya, Jonny

Yes, knowing the significance of the *passover lamb* is, indeed, a priceless bit of information.

Peace, Brother

Waysider

Edited August 1, 2007 by waysider

[excathedra]

dottie, i'm not ignoring you, i just don't want to keep telling it right now

[pond]

The body of christ was good till they messed it up with different color name tag and who is who and that whole only in the household thing.

im trying to get along here

cant do it no how

[rascal]

Excathedra, thank you for telling...thank you for having the courage...as difficult as it was...... thank you for not letting these guys shut you down.

Your testimony is what set me free from the bondage of false doctrine. You were the first to have the courage to do it. I know that it doesn`t help the pain of what you have endured...I can only thank you for being instrumental in freedom for me and my family.

Dot, thanks for making it graphically real. People need to know and understand what pigs these people were...I think it is necessary in order to finally allow ourselves to start examining the doctrine that has been so enslaving.

Catcup, thanks for providing the testimony of your families suffering, it corroborates the initial accounts and makes it so much more difficult for the bullies to dismiss the first hand testimony they clamoured to have..and now suddenlt isn`t good enough.

Had you people not come forth who actually knew these men.....many of us would be trapped the rest of our lives trying to live up to the rediculous standards, and accepting responsibility for defeat and failure....in bondage mentally even after leaving the group......never daring to consider that the *principles* applied might be flawed.

Gentlemen, thanks for showing that chivalry is NOT dead.

Edited August 1, 2007 by rascal

[excathedra]

thanks rascal

i believe i'm most thankful these men's brains are not dead

[J0nny Ling0]

I am only being a stick in the mud about the title and purpose of this particular thread, which has been so de-railed that it is un-bee-lee-va-bull. I didn't even question the authenticity of the accusations as White Dove did, but have acknowledge the alleged crimes. Even if VP lured the girls to his bed via a (non existent) sexual magnetism (which evidently was not the case), it was wrong. No minister should ever do that. I have already said that in numerous ways here. But, the desire to pounce on anything positive in PFAL and The Way Ministry is to me, very rude when it is something I have answered to in a thread that asks it. And, it seems as if it is many of the same people I met here when I first came to the GSCafe roughly three years ago. And those same people are still as angry and as injured by all of this as they were the day I "walked" into this cyber place. Seems to me that the ones who are actually dead and gone are still "striking out from the grave" and hurting those whom they hurt in the original incident/s all over again. Day to day to day. Thread by nasty little thread. Seems to me that I wouldn't give them that satisfaction. Why would anybody?

I used to carry bitterness towards a particular AK limb leader (GK) for years and years. Finally, my wife, when I began to launch into the same old tirade about what an a-hole that guy was and how he'd done me dirty, she stopped me and said; "Hey. You have to stop this. That guy has moved on and probably has no idea you are here 4500 miles away from him, ranting about what a jerk he is and how evil he was then. I think you need to forgive him and move on. In essence: "Fuggedaboudit". And so, I thought; "Yeah, no kiddin. You are right. And so we held hands and I asked God to forgive the guy, and I forgave the guy, and I asked God to forgive me for hanging on to the bitterness for all those years, and I thanked Him for my wife and for her loving me enough to speak the Truth to me like that. For helping me into doing what Jesus asked us to do.

And so, I have mentioned more than a few things that I enjoyed in PFAL, things I still believe and am thankful to have learned in that class, which WAS what this thread was about. And I am thankful to have learned of others here who feel the same way. I am disappointed in the derailment of the thread though, and sad to see those who just can't stay away from hurting someone else's positive experiences.

Edited August 1, 2007 by Jonny Lingo

[J0nny Ling0]

did you read my post about what happened to me ?

Yes, and I am so sorry Excathedra. It was rude and disgusting. I am Sorry it happened, and I hope that it can be something that withers into the past and hurts you no more, really...

[pond]

it is important to them that people realize both sides of twi johnny.

maybe your down home feelings about this web site allows you to dismiss how important it is to them because it isnt your pain or you mission to accomplish. so it easy for you to "move on" the idea of forgivness and moving on in life is a very personal one and what may work for you with your angry feelings may not work for them.

ok?

[rascal]

The thread turned into an attack when I simply answered the question posed by the author of the thread Jonny.....ie....* DO I believe it*? I answered in response, to a single blanket statement made by a single poster ....politely, giving my reasons as to why I disagreed with his premiss that he was scolding people with.....

You are one of the ones making the false statements about the discussion at hand and why it took the turn it did.....and using that to slam people as not being able to say anything nice about twi. That isn`t honest and that isn`t what this is about.

Edited August 1, 2007 by rascal