A Few Big Things I Learned Taking PFAL

[pond]

It sounds like your taking everything to personal .

I do not read every post on the thread esp if it written to another poster, so how your feeling go is up to you .

many of the posters here are very familiar with one another and how they feel about a matter or their opinion about a person or situation.

some have posted the same things for years.

I doubt a liar will change his spots for you. this is an open public forum .

this arena is what it is I do not know if insulting will help the point of why or how folks post or change their thinking.

it is up to you to filter what you will and you seem very emotional right now, maybe you have reasons, posting is what it is. It is diferent than a face to face conversation in may ways.

to stay on topic is important trolls scan the internet and some poster will kill a thread on purpose to stop the conversation.

time will tell if you enjoy it or not.

[excathedra]

We become damaged either by our own wrong decisions, or because we trust someone who then damages us. VP damaged himself and then others because he succumbed to the temptation of sin for a very long season.

What do I think of VPW you ask? I am thankful to God that he taught the PFAL class

m's story

.

[Catcup]

m's story

.

I can verify.

M was my 6th Corps roomie

So do you think all the sacrifices these women and others were forced to make, were worth your "blessing"?

That's pretty damn selfish, knowing their lives were sacrificed so VP could sell you on a pack of lies, which you obviously

STILL BELIEVE

Edited July 29, 2007 by Catcup

[rascal]

I don`t believe `ciderator has the courage to read that account.

[Catcup]

I don`t believe `ciderator has the courage to read that account.

Probably right. Or at least the courage to finally face the truth.

[exwaycorps]

I can verify as well.

"M" was my branch coordinator/WOW sister in State College,PA. '76-'77

I've posted about that story previously.

[WhiteDove]

I can verify.

M was my 6th Corps roomie

So do you think all the sacrifices these women and others were forced to make, were worth your "blessing"?

That's pretty damn selfish, knowing their lives were sacrificed so VP could sell you on a pack of lies, which you obviously

STILL BELIEVE

Catcup what exactly is it that you can verify?

[rascal]

76/77

So much about the good old days when the ministry was good and pure. Another myth bites the dust.

[Catcup]

Catcup what exactly is it that you can verify?

I'm the one she talked to when she came back from that walk around the pond when RixK Pxnyard tried to get in her pants. I was shocked. I knew Rick. I told her to go talk to LCM immediately and tell him what happened. When she told me what he said, I was shocked that he would give such an answer. I chalked it up to maybe she misunderstood him. Not anymore.

Her story also fits with some of the depressive behavior I witnessed in her in residence.

[George Aar]

Some of the really big things I learned whilst in WayWorld:

1. It's GOOD to be the MOG - VERY good

2. 15% is a big bite out of your check every week

3. All of God's people are equal, but some are moreso

4. Even large groups of people can be trained to act really peculiarly

5. It doesn't matter if reason, common sense, and even basic morality is on your side,

you can still be easily trumped by someone further up the "WayTree"

But the #1 thing I learned, a lesson that I carry with me everyday -

Religion (or whatever you call your ethereal superstitions) is Bu//$h1T,

you're welcome...

[Deciderator]

A Few Big Things I Learned Taking PFAL, Do you still believe them?

GET THE 'TO WHOM' CORRECT!

Great lesson there.

That one really cuts through a lot of confusion.

yepyepyep - I'm still using that one. seems like every time I turn around someone is trying to put us in the Gospel period and thus deny the finished accomplishments of Jesus Christ.

[Catcup]

GET THE 'TO WHOM' CORRECT!

Great lesson there.

That one really cuts through a lot of confusion.

yepyepyep - I'm still using that one. seems like every time I turn around someone is trying to put us in the Gospel period and thus deny the finished accomplishments of Jesus Christ.

Get To Whom Correct.

That means, the Gospels weren't written "to" me, so I can pick and choose what I want to apply from that period.

[Deciderator]

Get To Whom Correct.

That means, the Gospels weren't written "to" me, so I can pick and choose what I want to apply from that period.

I can only speak for myself, but I don't see it that way.

It's either believe that some Scriptures are for our learning and some for our doctrine or not.

All of the God-breathed Word is of power.

No picking and choosing.

It's just that some is for our doctrine and some is for our learning.

I still read instead of skipping over those geneologies in there, but that's just me.

Edited July 29, 2007 by Deciderator

[pond]

so is doctrine for our learning?

i think you complicate everything.

really alot to say to Jesus one day when you let HIM know how you can pick and chose what He did and said as right or wrong for your life.

Glad your not the one who had to save mankind I tell ya!

[Deciderator]

I only used the quote because I liked that quote. I read some Anais Nin a long time ago and was really surprised that she had said this. None of the stories I read were of the nature you stated. I was more intrigued by the soaring of the imagination than anything else.

If I find a quote I like better, I'll replace Nin's quote.

Doojabe, what I am finding out here is that if you like a quote by someone, then you endorse everything that person ever did or said or was ever accused of.

That Anais Nin, she ahem! got around, didn't she?

so is doctrine for our learning?

i think you complicate everything.

really alot to say to Jesus one day when you let HIM know how you can pick and chose what He did and said as right or wrong for your life.

Glad your not the one who had to save mankind I tell ya!

Me too.

I just said no picking and choosing.

Sorry you missed it.

Doctrine for doctrine.

Learning for learning.

That uncomplicates it now, doesn't it?

I'm glad neither of us has to save mankind....

[Eyesopen]

All of the God-breathed Word is of power.

Forgive me Deciderator, but once again I don't understand exactly what you mean by this comment. I know that it is only one out of many but it just doesn't make sense to me. Would you mind explaining it? Perhaps its just a typo. Not being sarcastic here..so please dont respond that way.

[Deciderator]

It sounds like your taking everything to personal .

Maybe so.

I suppose you won't mind if I quote your posts and then say that noooooo, that's not what you believe, and then proceed to make something up and claim it to be your thoughts.

time will tell if you enjoy it or not.

At first I thought I may just be passing through but I have already met some nice people who are not just sitting there trying to club others.

I think I am in for some good times here.

And you and me need to hang out in person so you can see I am not the person you want me to be...

Forgive me Deciderator, but once again I don't understand exactly what you mean by this comment. I know that it is only one out of many but it just doesn't make sense to me. Would you mind explaining it? Perhaps its just a typo. Not being sarcastic here..so please dont respond that way.

Sorry I can't reference the verse, I don't have my notes here.

There is a verse which reads literally,

"No word of God is without power."

[excathedra]

look decide whatever

did you read m's story or not ?

you too lingo

[rascal]

I am waiting to hear also.

I want to know if this behavior is based on ignorance of the facts at hand, or knowing the truth but not caring about the lives destroyed.

[Catcup]

I can only speak for myself, but I don't see it that way.

It's either believe that some Scriptures are for our learning and some for our doctrine or not.

All of the God-breathed Word is of power.

No picking and choosing.

It's just that some is for our doctrine and some is for our learning.

I still read instead of skipping over those geneologies in there, but that's just me.

So it's not doctrine to pull the beam out of your own eye before pointing out the mote in someone elses?

Maybe it should be.

Edited July 29, 2007 by Catcup

[doojable]

Doojabe, what I am finding out here is that if you like a quote by someone, then you endorse everything that person ever did or said or was ever accused of.

That Anais Nin, she ahem! got around, didn't she?

Funny, I've never seen that here...

You seem to have a thick skin and a fairly well working brain. I'm thinking that you're also pretty perceptive when you want to be. I think you know how to pick your battles; if not then you should learn. ;)

[WhiteDove]

I'm the one she talked to when she came back from that walk around the pond when RixK Pxnyard tried to get in her pants. I was shocked. I knew Rick. I told her to go talk to LCM immediately and tell him what happened. When she told me what he said, I was shocked that he would give such an answer. I chalked it up to maybe she misunderstood him. Not anymore.

Her story also fits with some of the depressive behavior I witnessed in her in residence.

. Thanks for the reply Catcup so when you said I can verify what you meant was, I can verify "part" of the story, the part that deals with R**k, and how you can verify is that you believe what she told you. No offence but that is hardly verifying anything that is accepting an account of an incident at face value. This happens all the time Crystal Gail Mangum recounted her incident in the Duke rape trial and many believed her account until the facts determined otherwise. Michael Vick is telling his account of how he is innocent in his dog fighting case, although the evidence is not looking good for him. There are those that believe him as well but that hardly verifies his story it just means that they choose to believe it for various reasons maybe because they are friends or teammates. I can understand how you might accept the account at face value as she was your roommate and knowing of R**k and other things he has done you may be correct in your assessment but it still falls short of verifying and this is how stuff starts here , later on it shows up as this story was verified by posters on GreaseSpot. Thanks for setting the record straight.

[Suda]

I enjoy reading Catcup’s posts. They are very enlightening and she adds much to the healing process here at GSC. Her participation is an great asset to this place. I do struggle with her response to Deciderator on m’s story, though. Maybe I’m just missing what she, Rascal, and others are saying. After reading my thoughts, if that is the case, please enlighten me.

My feelings on this were covered somewhat on the Misplaced Guilt thread I started. The good experiences during twi most people post about have to do with how God was living and real in their lives, their spiritual growth, and the way in which the majority of people really cared and ministered to one another. The role PFAL played was in imparting some knowledge on how to make this lifestyle a reality in their lives. With the exception of one poster here, I have never heard anyone say that every word in PFAL was true, but rather that parts were true and changed their lives. God was at the center of the “good times” - that’s what made them good.

Most people here also agree that vpw had evil flaws in character which resulted in innocent people being violated and suffering great harm, physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. They do not excuse that behavior, they detest it. And they can make the correlation between the evil in his life and the false teaching that resulted from it. Many of us spend quite a bit of time here in our early days making sense of the incongruity between the evil in the organization, and that despite it, God was able to reach, teach, heal, and deliver people and ignite the holy spirit in them.

So do you think all the sacrifices these women and others were forced to make, were worth your "blessing"?

It seems illogical to then say that because they enjoyed the goodness of God while associated with twi, that they believe the sacrifice of innocent lives was worth their “blessing.” I have NEVER seen anyone post this. To me it is an unrealistic and twisted thought pattern. Certainly, if we had known on the front end that the cost of our deliverance through twi was the sacrifice of innocent people by evil leadership, we would not have made that choice. But we were never given that choice. It would have happened whether we took PFAL or never heard of it. So it would be untruthful for us to say that someone was sacrified for our deliverance. They were not! They were violated because those in authority and power abused it. To say

That's pretty damn selfish, knowing their lives were sacrificed so VP could sell you on a pack of lies, which you obviously STILL BELIEVE

is an illogical and untrue statement on two fronts. First of all, it is not the “pack of lies” but the “gems of truth” that delivered us, and it is those gems we hold so dear. It seems most have left the pack of lies behind. And for us to accept the guilt for the violation of others by vpw and others would be unsound and misplaced. We are not to blame for their actions - they are - period!

Nothing we can do will change the horror of the evil things that happened it twi. It is beyond our control, and always was. What we do now is shed light on those to help people heal from those atrocities, get out of similar situations or avoid entangling themselves with them in the future.

By the same token, nothing will change the fact that Godliness and goodness also came out of association with twi. And it need not be hidden or discouraged from display due to the evil that was going on in the inner sanctum. One does not negate the other. Both the good and the evil were real and happened. Both should be open for display and discussion. We should rejoice in the good and keep it alive. We should scandalize and shame the evil, and help people overcome it and avoid being manipulated it by it in the future.

IMO, healing at this place comes from discussing the totality of our experiences with twi, the good and the bad. To accept only one and shun the other would not seem to allow a person to attain wholeness in their healing.

Suda

[WhiteDove]

Exactly Suda it is a straw argument made to make someone feel bad for not seeing their point of view, by the same logic we all should feel bad that we learned math at some students expense that was molested by the teacher, and some how that changes the truth of the math into non truth. What a bunch of BS....

[Suda]

what I am finding out here is that if you like a quote by someone, then you (are assumed to) endorse everything that person ever did or said or was ever accused of.

(Bold and Italics added by me)

I see that here, too, quite often. If someone says there were gems of truth in PFAL, some assume that they believe every word that proceeded out of the mouth of vpw, and, therefore, have placed him on a pedestal and worship him as the MOG.

They miss the reality that the poster is very aware that

(1) These gems were interspersed with vpw’s private interpretations. When their personal research shows them that vpw’s pi is not true, they did not hesitate to call it error and discard it.

(2) vpw was not beyond reproach, but, in fact had some despicable traits. However, despite that, he did teach some truth, and thank God for that. They don’t magnify the man, but rather the truth he taught.

The title of this thread is "A Few Big Things I Learned Taking PFAL, Do you still believe them?", not

"I Believed Everything in PFAL, and I still do, do you?"

Seems it’s just the “Same old song, new verse” that goes on here all the time. If you post something good, someone else feels obligated to show the bad, and vice versa, so that the whole experience is revisited.

Suda