Liebes Maedchen, ich hab’ ueberhaubt nichts von “schlechte schwere Frauen” erwaehnt. Nur das boese Weib! Kennst du die Geschichte nicht? Wenn schon denn schon!
Ich bin ein doppelter Major, eine Geschichte und eine Psychologie. Wer sind die schlechten Frauen, in Ihrer Meinung?
I do know my history, just not the best at understanding German....
I thought this thread was about the early music in TWI but apparently I am wrong.
Well sometimes conversations start on one topic and go to another. Sorry to disappoint you. One idea begets another idea, and pretty soon the whole conversation changed!
I can't disagree with what you say...The young people who joined twi were sincere and hopeful and loving and really believed in what they were doing...I was one of them.
I think it was people like Jimmy Doop and Steve Heefner that truly had great Christian ministries and Wierwille stepped in and hijacked it all...first he stole the class and then he stole the people from other ministries...he was a thief who sought his own glory...and in the process, ruined a lot of people's lives....
Business as usual in today’s corporate world of M&A take overs, no? Buy out the “competition”, consolidate, and cut costs.
Repackage the product with new “management” and go public. Follow the $$ and there should be few surprises. Follow your emotions, and you’re toast!
Business as usual in today’s corporate world of M&A take overs, no? Buy out the “competition”, consolidate, and cut costs.
Repackage the product with new “management” and go public. Follow the $$ and there should be few surprises. Follow your emotions, and you’re toast!
Only VPW never bothered to "buy out" the competition. He simply outright stole and baldfaced lied.
The online translator really thinks you two are hacks in german.. says you're talking about heavy women.. and history..
That's all I got out of it too-- had trouble understanding her German, never figured out what she was talking about-- I asked her what she was saying about bad heavy women? Any way, I asked her what she meant, and if I understood what she was talking about, she then challenged my knowledge of history. So I gave up and I'm asking to communicate in a language I think most of us fully understand....
aint it the truth.. that's why they wouldn't put me in charge of much of anything. I'm ruined, damaged merchandise, as far as corporate america is concerned..
Sometimes I think a person is better off being toast..
Only VPW never bothered to "buy out" the competition. He simply outright stole and baldfaced lied.
That's all I got out of it too-- had trouble understanding her German, never figured out what she was talking about-- I asked her what she was saying about bad heavy women? Any way, I asked her what she meant, and if I understood what she was talking about, she then challenged my knowledge of history. So I gave up and I'm asking to communicate in a language I think most of us fully understand....
Actually Catcup as per my pm, the woman in the picture is not even fat. There wasn't enough to eat during the time it was painted to even imagine such a luxury! "Boese" is literally "angry". Also, I did not challenge your "knowledge" of history! Not ever having met or previously spoken, would be foolish at best, n'est ce pas? But don't give up...we can pm in German if you'd like? Bump
The intent of the thread was to talk about the "fire" that the early TWI music had - which was (imho) hand-in-hand with the "fire" of the early ministry, pre-LCM, pre-lawsuits, pre-nasty discoveries about the thing and it's founder...
"What it was"... could have been "What it still COULD be".... but it's not.
Actually Catcup as per my pm, the woman in the picture is not even fat. There wasn't enough to eat during the time it was painted to even imagine such a luxury! "Boese" is literally "angry". Also, I did not challenge your "knowledge" of history! Not ever having met or previously spoken, would be foolish at best, n'est ce pas? But don't give up...we can pm in German if you'd like? Bump
After the pm explanation, I think I get the picture you are talking about. Would love to see it, sounds really humerous!--And like I said, the German language is not exactly my forte... thank you for clearing up my misunderstanding!
The intent of the thread was to talk about the "fire" that the early TWI music had - which was (imho) hand-in-hand with the "fire" of the early ministry, pre-LCM, pre-lawsuits, pre-nasty discoveries about the thing and it's founder...
"What it was"... could have been "What it still COULD be".... but it's not.
Yes I get that. "what it was" for me was a legitimate and exciting alternative to the religion of my youth, which was the most legalistic and miserable religion I could possibly imagine (and did) at that time.
"what it could have been" was what it was for me, what I expected and believed it was to me
"what it still COULD be" depends on many factors, but I do believe it's possible for twi to have a legitimate comeback if it focuses on the right stuff. The simple basic stuff that was so exciting and such a blessing many years ago. From what I've heard, some participants think its much different now than in LCM days. I can't say one way or the other, as I haven't been there in many years.
Yes I get that. "what it was" for me was a legitimate and exciting alternative to the religion of my youth, which was the most legalistic and miserable religion I could possibly imagine (and did) at that time.
"what it could have been" was what it was for me, what I expected and believed it was to me
"what it still COULD be" depends on many factors, but I do believe it's possible for twi to have a legitimate comeback if it focuses on the right stuff. The simple basic stuff that was so exciting and such a blessing many years ago. From what I've heard, some participants think its much different now than in LCM days. I can't say one way or the other, as I haven't been there in many years.
Oldies, if you think that organization is capable of having a legitimate comeback if it focuses on "the right stuff," you might consider going back to the organization and attempting to spearhead the reform movement, or at least help.
Don't hold your breath while waiting for change, though. Way too many of us who had access, tried for decades, and after wasting our lives there, found it impossible.
But farbeit from me to discourage you from trying....
I know you to have had a problem accepting the truth of the extent of the damage VPW inflicted. Perhaps the magnitude of his error is shocking to you. That does not mean the poster manified what happened.
I believe in the early days, when VP was allowing them to function and attract people, they were. However, as I and others expressed before, VP allowed them to function in order to siphon off people into his organization, then he gradually usurped God's rightful place, and began to squelch people and pervert the truth.We have, and have deemed it putrid.
At that time, twi was a group of people with varied motivations that was governed by a man who was bent on changing and unifying people's alliegences to himself, slowly, and deliberately.
Your mileage may vary and you are welcome to your opinion-- just don't be shocked if yours is different from every one else's, and accuse them of exaggerating.
Was Vic really that smart? I wouldn't give him that much credit. Did he start out with the orchestration of his ministry all mapped out?? Or did it progress and the devil used him to steal, kill and destroy people. Absolute power corrupts absolutely or something like that. "I'm your puppet..."
My too cents: VPW was always the man he was going to be, growing over time for better or worse. We all were.
In 1967 he got PFAL on film and audio tape, as a means to extend the capabilities of his class. He was in growth mode, looking to market it across the country, wherever he could.
In 1968 he visited California and met Jim, Steve and others in that group. He taught from PFAL and offered it as a tool for their own ministries, but under his coordination and as an extension of the Way Inc. They went back to "the Farm" and decided this was it. Enter "The Way West". It was The Way...West. An extension of the Way Nash, led by Jim and Steve in San Francisco and north in Marin County. The East Bay was largely the fruit of Howie Yeremian Jr. and grew quickly that first couple years. Steve moved to New York and The Way East formed.
Under Jim Doop, the Way West was a loose mix of what a lot of people were doing, Jim never ran it like a company with himself as CEO or whatever. He wasn't that kind of man and that was never his Path. Jim and Robin Wahl, Jim and Judy and Steve and Sandy were the first people I remember meeting back then.
Having met Jim in '67 through Howie I got the distinct impression from him that he Knew Something I Didn't. Howie was the same way. Steve Heefner, AKA "Steve O'Shay" was a succesful radio DJ and personality in San Francisco, and he had That Look, the same thing.
I would say, carefully and with respect for those with us and those gone, that I can't think of a time that any of these 3 men or their wives every promised me or my wife anything they couldn't deliver, nothing more or less than the simple truth that if I wanted to Know Jesus Christ too, I was welcome. It was really that simple. Whatever happened next, happened. It had the sense of "be ready", but with little pressure. Jim and Steve weren't men to entertain fools and were masters at blowing off lesser influences by just being who they were. I won't start on the Sto-reez, but there were lots of them, more than enough that if you were keeping score you'd have to admit that at the least something unusual was going on that equaled more than the count. Knowing where that was coming from was what first got my attention, in a big way.
Over many years in the Way and doing many things myself I never grew beyond that in a way. It seemed that while VPW was certainly interested in seeing growth of Way ministry as a vehicle for PFAL and class teaching, that never produced anything unless "it" was happening, "it" being the lives and hearts of people that felt their own personal place and sense of purpose. Within each person's life was where the fruit was produced, the "amazing" things occurred, the happiness, love, sense of fulfillment, all of that happened. From out of that came the music too. Good or bad, it blew forth.
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Catcup
Ich bin ein doppelter Major, eine Geschichte und eine Psychologie. Wer sind die schlechten Frauen, in Ihrer Meinung?
I do know my history, just not the best at understanding German....
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Catcup
And perhaps we should speak English among those who primarily speak English. I'm told it's rude to do otherwise....
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Ham
The online translator really thinks you two are hacks in german.. says you're talking about heavy women.. and history..
But that's a computer. I can't afford to pay the "human" on the other end to translate..
:)
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Ham
I would agree. It's almost like, some people have way too much invested to think otherwise.
What if you found that everything you believe is wrong..
for some people, I think it would be like the stock market crash in 1929.
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Nottawayfer
Well sometimes conversations start on one topic and go to another. Sorry to disappoint you. One idea begets another idea, and pretty soon the whole conversation changed!
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Bumpy
Business as usual in today’s corporate world of M&A take overs, no? Buy out the “competition”, consolidate, and cut costs.
Repackage the product with new “management” and go public. Follow the $$ and there should be few surprises. Follow your emotions, and you’re toast!
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Catcup
Only VPW never bothered to "buy out" the competition. He simply outright stole and baldfaced lied.
That's all I got out of it too-- had trouble understanding her German, never figured out what she was talking about-- I asked her what she was saying about bad heavy women? Any way, I asked her what she meant, and if I understood what she was talking about, she then challenged my knowledge of history. So I gave up and I'm asking to communicate in a language I think most of us fully understand....
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Ham
aint it the truth.. that's why they wouldn't put me in charge of much of anything. I'm ruined, damaged merchandise, as far as corporate america is concerned..
Sometimes I think a person is better off being toast..
:)
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Catcup
sorry, double post...
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Ham
Oh.. Catcup.. Bumpy is a boy. Thought enquiring minds would want to know..
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Catcup
LOL, sorry, Bumpy!!!!!
That's what I get for not hanging out at the Cafe enough and learning the new folk!!!
Even more that gets lost in the translation!
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Bumpy
Actually Catcup as per my pm, the woman in the picture is not even fat. There wasn't enough to eat during the time it was painted to even imagine such a luxury! "Boese" is literally "angry". Also, I did not challenge your "knowledge" of history! Not ever having met or previously spoken, would be foolish at best, n'est ce pas? But don't give up...we can pm in German if you'd like? Bump
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excathedra
well let's see, thinking about magnifying or exaggerating ?????
not exaggerating here, i even downplay my experiences with the mog of the day and time, out of shame and embarrassment
but i did LOVE a song written my, i believe, a really awesome musician, a short guy named mark in the 7th corps
"let us magnify his name, let us never be ashamed......"
do you remember that hymn ?
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ChasUFarley
The intent of the thread was to talk about the "fire" that the early TWI music had - which was (imho) hand-in-hand with the "fire" of the early ministry, pre-LCM, pre-lawsuits, pre-nasty discoveries about the thing and it's founder...
"What it was"... could have been "What it still COULD be".... but it's not.
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ex10
I thought Dan M wrote that song sisex? But I also remeber short Mark wrote a song about Thessolonica, that was amazing.
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excathedra
you're probably right, sis
i always get them confused (the songs)
there's another one i'm thinking of by mark..... it will come to me.... i hope
now we wait a joyful nation come oh christ our life's elation.....
changed eyes is the one i was thinking of
knowing then we'll see it all through changed eyes
was that one mark ?
what a great one
love you, sis
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WhiteDove
Dan Moran did Magnify the Name of The Lord it is also on the We've Got It All Tape I have a file if someone wants to post it for Excathedra.
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Catcup
After the pm explanation, I think I get the picture you are talking about. Would love to see it, sounds really humerous!--And like I said, the German language is not exactly my forte... thank you for clearing up my misunderstanding!
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oldiesman
Yes I get that. "what it was" for me was a legitimate and exciting alternative to the religion of my youth, which was the most legalistic and miserable religion I could possibly imagine (and did) at that time.
"what it could have been" was what it was for me, what I expected and believed it was to me
"what it still COULD be" depends on many factors, but I do believe it's possible for twi to have a legitimate comeback if it focuses on the right stuff. The simple basic stuff that was so exciting and such a blessing many years ago. From what I've heard, some participants think its much different now than in LCM days. I can't say one way or the other, as I haven't been there in many years.
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Catcup
Oldies, if you think that organization is capable of having a legitimate comeback if it focuses on "the right stuff," you might consider going back to the organization and attempting to spearhead the reform movement, or at least help.
Don't hold your breath while waiting for change, though. Way too many of us who had access, tried for decades, and after wasting our lives there, found it impossible.
But farbeit from me to discourage you from trying....
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oldiesman
No rush. May I mention that there are decent alternatives available now that were not in the past, like CFF. No rush.
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Ham
Hmm. I don't know if you can have a "comeback" if you didn't "have it" to begin with..
There are some possibilities though..
Hire a dozen or so of those REAL BIG water tankers, along with high pressure pumps and fire hoses..
wash out the OSC, chalet and auditorium from one end to the other.. including rosie and staff.
carefully deposit the "washings" at the nearest toxic land fill in the county..
if they'll accept it..
then maybe we can talk about some kind of "rebuilding".
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debbieb
Was Vic really that smart? I wouldn't give him that much credit. Did he start out with the orchestration of his ministry all mapped out?? Or did it progress and the devil used him to steal, kill and destroy people. Absolute power corrupts absolutely or something like that. "I'm your puppet..."
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socks
My too cents: VPW was always the man he was going to be, growing over time for better or worse. We all were.
In 1967 he got PFAL on film and audio tape, as a means to extend the capabilities of his class. He was in growth mode, looking to market it across the country, wherever he could.
In 1968 he visited California and met Jim, Steve and others in that group. He taught from PFAL and offered it as a tool for their own ministries, but under his coordination and as an extension of the Way Inc. They went back to "the Farm" and decided this was it. Enter "The Way West". It was The Way...West. An extension of the Way Nash, led by Jim and Steve in San Francisco and north in Marin County. The East Bay was largely the fruit of Howie Yeremian Jr. and grew quickly that first couple years. Steve moved to New York and The Way East formed.
Under Jim Doop, the Way West was a loose mix of what a lot of people were doing, Jim never ran it like a company with himself as CEO or whatever. He wasn't that kind of man and that was never his Path. Jim and Robin Wahl, Jim and Judy and Steve and Sandy were the first people I remember meeting back then.
Having met Jim in '67 through Howie I got the distinct impression from him that he Knew Something I Didn't. Howie was the same way. Steve Heefner, AKA "Steve O'Shay" was a succesful radio DJ and personality in San Francisco, and he had That Look, the same thing.
I would say, carefully and with respect for those with us and those gone, that I can't think of a time that any of these 3 men or their wives every promised me or my wife anything they couldn't deliver, nothing more or less than the simple truth that if I wanted to Know Jesus Christ too, I was welcome. It was really that simple. Whatever happened next, happened. It had the sense of "be ready", but with little pressure. Jim and Steve weren't men to entertain fools and were masters at blowing off lesser influences by just being who they were. I won't start on the Sto-reez, but there were lots of them, more than enough that if you were keeping score you'd have to admit that at the least something unusual was going on that equaled more than the count. Knowing where that was coming from was what first got my attention, in a big way.
Over many years in the Way and doing many things myself I never grew beyond that in a way. It seemed that while VPW was certainly interested in seeing growth of Way ministry as a vehicle for PFAL and class teaching, that never produced anything unless "it" was happening, "it" being the lives and hearts of people that felt their own personal place and sense of purpose. Within each person's life was where the fruit was produced, the "amazing" things occurred, the happiness, love, sense of fulfillment, all of that happened. From out of that came the music too. Good or bad, it blew forth.
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