wow..well this sure is a topic that could take a few years to explore
for one...it might be interesting to know that early Buddhist thought and practice had already made its way into the middle east, greece and egypt a few hundred of years prior to the life of Jesus
...although it was not called 'buddhism' at the time
judaism, hinduism, and buddhism...all come out of the same era of early contemplative discovery (all sharing the perennial notion of "I AM")
and i would have to say that perhaps Jesus learned from them all and took it a step further (by adding a very strong descending element)
no one religion is simple enough to be described or explained away with some sweeping monolithic statement
as there are thousands of years of overlapping histories and languages and influences to consider
and one cannot understand a single religion (or its arts and literature) without comparing it to the others
...not only seeing where and why the maps overlap, but appreciating where and why they do not
and alongside comparing mere theologies and etymologies of words ... is the importance of comparing of actual spiritual practices and their implications
cuz there are ways to see the truths and meanings that are behind and beyond the mere names we use to describe them
there have been many very valuable periods of interfaith and interreligious dialogues in recent (and not so recent) human history
where religions have been compared and discussed quite successfully ....and by deeply devoted men and women of those faiths
The dying/resurrecting fertility god was a savior to his people, making the land and people fertile. As far as I know, the concept of the people needing a savior due to their sinfulness wasn't part of it though.
There are some theories that the dying god beliefs lasted into the middle ages--the high priest or priestess taking the place of the king as substitute--Joan of Arc, Thomas a Becket, and a king, William Rufus, William the Conqueror's son.
Modern Wiccan/pagans have the dying/birthing god as part of their yearly calendar.
Interesting thread! As of yet, I don’t have anything to contribute – but I’m working on expanding my horizons . I started reading A History of God by Karen Armstrong [Socks recommended it on another thread]. A very thought provoking read – already I’m wanting to read up more on Buddha and a few others she talks about.
Yeah, I guess that's the crux of all the religious arguments, no? All the other religions think that their's came "into concretion" as well. The only thing lacking is proof. Just saying it (or writing it) doesn't make it so, does it?
I don't find it remarkable that certain basic tenets of all faiths have been around much longer, and in many other cultures than one would normally assume. At least someone of a particular faith would assume.
There's basic ideas of Confuscianism in "The Golden Rule", Greek, Indian, and Chinese philosophy in much of The Bible and other "holy" writs.
What I find remarkable is the, often, knee-jerk response that "Yeah, those other guys knew some of this stuff, but we know the REAL source of it all. Don't we? (wink, wink, nudge)".
I just find that kind of response to be odd. Sorry that offends you Clay. But, it seems most of my opinions have that effect...
What I find remarkable is the, often, knee-jerk response that "Yeah, those other guys knew some of this stuff, but we know the REAL source of it all. Don't we? (wink, wink, nudge)".
I don't find it remarkable that certain basic tenets of all faiths have been around much longer, and in many other cultures than one would normally assume. At least someone of a particular faith would assume.
There's basic ideas of Confuscianism in "The Golden Rule", Greek, Indian, and Chinese philosophy in much of The Bible and other "holy" writs.
What I find remarkable is the, often, knee-jerk response that "Yeah, those other guys knew some of this stuff, but we know the REAL source of it all. Don't we? (wink, wink, nudge)".
I just find that kind of response to be odd. Sorry that offends you Clay. But, it seems most of my opinions have that effect...
How would there be culture without faith?
No matter what that faith is in, even in one's own mind.
Faith in your own ability to judge that which you judge.
And who is saying what the "real source" is?
They all have different faiths and ideas JUST LIKE YOU.
The dying/resurrecting fertility god was a savior to his people, making the land and people fertile. As far as I know, the concept of the people needing a savior due to their sinfulness wasn't part of it though.
There are some theories that the dying god beliefs lasted into the middle ages--the high priest or priestess taking the place of the king as substitute--Joan of Arc, Thomas a Becket, and a king, William Rufus, William the Conqueror's son.
Modern Wiccan/pagans have the dying/birthing god as part of their yearly calendar.
Many modern religions have this in some form or fashion, including Judaism and even Christianity. Hence, Yom Kippur and Easter.
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Bolshevik
So, did Jesus learn from Buddha?
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GarthP2000
There are those who say that the Christ concept was based on various savior/messiah beliefs/teachings (more or less) by other pre-existing religions.
Mithra
Buddha
Dionysis
Attis
Horas
Osiris
are many examples of such.
There are a lot of religious/spiritual concepts that Jesus said that aren't particular to Christianity.
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sirguessalot
wow..well this sure is a topic that could take a few years to explore
for one...it might be interesting to know that early Buddhist thought and practice had already made its way into the middle east, greece and egypt a few hundred of years prior to the life of Jesus
...although it was not called 'buddhism' at the time
judaism, hinduism, and buddhism...all come out of the same era of early contemplative discovery (all sharing the perennial notion of "I AM")
and i would have to say that perhaps Jesus learned from them all and took it a step further (by adding a very strong descending element)
no one religion is simple enough to be described or explained away with some sweeping monolithic statement
as there are thousands of years of overlapping histories and languages and influences to consider
and one cannot understand a single religion (or its arts and literature) without comparing it to the others
...not only seeing where and why the maps overlap, but appreciating where and why they do not
and alongside comparing mere theologies and etymologies of words ... is the importance of comparing of actual spiritual practices and their implications
cuz there are ways to see the truths and meanings that are behind and beyond the mere names we use to describe them
there have been many very valuable periods of interfaith and interreligious dialogues in recent (and not so recent) human history
where religions have been compared and discussed quite successfully ....and by deeply devoted men and women of those faiths
feel free to pm me if interested
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sirguessalot
it might be worth adding...
how it seems that neither the Buddha nor the Christ seemed to promote themselves as personal saviors/messiahs
but rather promoted a path to 'salvation/liberation' through very potent forms of contemplative arts
its we who tend to wrap them in some super human mythic messianic role
...which both of them seemed to warn strongly against
though if we have come to see either of them as our personal messiah
i think it might be worth talking to them about that a little more
they are both quite understanding about such things, as scriptures say
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Bolshevik
It came up in the Adam and Eve thread that they were looking for the messiah from the beginning. (Eve thought Cain was him, but not so)
It would be understandable that all religions carry some variant of this if they can all be traced back to common roots.
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Bramble
The dying/resurrecting fertility god was a savior to his people, making the land and people fertile. As far as I know, the concept of the people needing a savior due to their sinfulness wasn't part of it though.
There are some theories that the dying god beliefs lasted into the middle ages--the high priest or priestess taking the place of the king as substitute--Joan of Arc, Thomas a Becket, and a king, William Rufus, William the Conqueror's son.
Modern Wiccan/pagans have the dying/birthing god as part of their yearly calendar.
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Sunesis
I think God worked with many cultures over time, all religions have truth.
I think the difference is, Christ was the myth come into concretion - the myths were fulfilled and became real.
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T-Bone
Interesting thread! As of yet, I don’t have anything to contribute – but I’m working on expanding my horizons
. I started reading A History of God by Karen Armstrong [Socks recommended it on another thread]. A very thought provoking read – already I’m wanting to read up more on Buddha and a few others she talks about.
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George Aar
"Christ was the myth come into concretion"
Yeah, I guess that's the crux of all the religious arguments, no? All the other religions think that their's came "into concretion" as well. The only thing lacking is proof. Just saying it (or writing it) doesn't make it so, does it?
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cman
Just like saying or writing doesn't make you anything either Geo.
You don't want proof of anything anyway. Do you.
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cman
What is being said is the point of this thread Geo, not that they existed, although they did.
Prove you exist.
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George Aar
I don't find it remarkable that certain basic tenets of all faiths have been around much longer, and in many other cultures than one would normally assume. At least someone of a particular faith would assume.
There's basic ideas of Confuscianism in "The Golden Rule", Greek, Indian, and Chinese philosophy in much of The Bible and other "holy" writs.
What I find remarkable is the, often, knee-jerk response that "Yeah, those other guys knew some of this stuff, but we know the REAL source of it all. Don't we? (wink, wink, nudge)".
I just find that kind of response to be odd. Sorry that offends you Clay. But, it seems most of my opinions have that effect...
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cman
Who said-
And no....lol....I'm not offended at all.
Just entertained by your confusion.
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George Aar
And what "confusion" would that be?
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cman
How would there be culture without faith?
No matter what that faith is in, even in one's own mind.
Faith in your own ability to judge that which you judge.
And who is saying what the "real source" is?
They all have different faiths and ideas JUST LIKE YOU.
What is your idea of faith?
Mine is probably different.
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George Aar
How would there be culture without faith?
Well, we've never seen it yet, but maybe someday, huh? ( I can dream, can't I?)
My idea of faith? I dunno, nothing spectacular. Just belief in a god or gods. Belief in unknowable entities of any sort.
Any belief based on the unfalsifiable...
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cman
I see faith as believing something that is real, not necessarily gods.
Could be one's own thinking or reasoning. Faith in yourself.
Which is not bad imo, but faith or a belief in something.
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Abigail
Many modern religions have this in some form or fashion, including Judaism and even Christianity. Hence, Yom Kippur and Easter.
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year2027
God first
Beloved cman
God loves you my dear friend
if all true knowledge comes from God than what we see, hear, smell. touch, and tasted is true too
but not just that all that we can dream up has truth within it too
and if we all came from a Adam and Eve no matter what name you give them
my names for them are father and mother which two gave my life my truth - Adam and Eve
all truths begin whole until we mix them up by thinking we only need one part
but if we can take the truths of Christ, Mithra, Buddha, Dionysis, Attis, Horas, Osiris, and others we will just have a clearer picture
the down fall is only focusing on one part
like only looking at good but good without bad has no favour to smell
a well even meal
all that is love but love without hate can not be witnessed
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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