Where should this go.. don't worry. I can go almost anywhere..
I think these are some of the more "intellectual" appearing quotes of vp.. sounds so slick, "we" or at leat "I" took it for granted that it was absolute truth..
nd they drink from the stagnant pool of tradition instead of the fountain-head of God’s revealed and written Word
This is almost a direct quote of Bullinger in How to enjoy the Bible. In the class it is practically an exact quote, about having courage to go to the fountain head of truth.
A believer's peace is lost when he allows sincere, religious people to put him under the covenant of works of the Old Testament. And when a believer loses sight of the truth of his standing in Christ then he loses sight of grace, mercy, love and the power of God. Then he gets into confusion as to the truth, and his peace evaporates, and it is gone.
I dunno. I've met some fundamental Jewish people who are pretty darn peaceful..
And as religions go, Wayferism was a pretty pathetic excuse.
Lots of cheap, home-cooked aphorisms, even more appeals to one's greed and ego, and even a small hint of common sense from time to time. But overall it was a pretty cheesy MLM with no real product to even sell, other than false hope and a bloated, baseless sense of superiority.
The fact that we were gulliible enough to buy doesn't speak very highly of us, I'm afraid.
Well, we did eventually get over it, that's something...
The fact that we were gulliible enough to buy doesn't speak very highly of us, I'm afraid.
Well, we did eventually get over it, that's something...
Most of us did...I'm afraid that's there's still some puddin' heads out there that scarf up the bile that VeePee dished out...A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
Some of the quotes in the Life Lines book (from TWI) are not original quotes by VPW. Some of the quotes in the book were quotes made by Emerson and also by Will Rogers I believe. Of course, the Life Lines book makes mention that VPW loved to read Ralph Waldo Emerson and Will Rogers and that's likely where he got those quotes from. Those quotes by Emerson and Rogers were just re-worded to fit Way-speak terminology.
Just off the top of my head, the quotes: The media can take a lie and get it around the world before the truth can put its shirt on and A teaching should be like a women's dress - long enough to cover the subject but short enough to keep it interesting are not VPW originals. It is hard to make a case VPW plagarized these quotes - other than the fact some quotes are re-worded to fit Way-speak.
In the Preface of Life Lines, LCM and VPW were flying home on Ambassador One to TWI and VPW made this comment to LCM: "Maybe you ought to think about putting a book together, son, made up of short statements I've spoken over the years which have blessed people." That was the end of the subject. ...
Pithy succinct, crystallized statements of depth and resonance were not only admired by Dr. Wierwille, but utilized and developed. He developed the art form of teaching with that style - not generalizing, but speaking to the core of an issue of truth in a vocabulary and manner that encouraged the listener to savor, decide, believe, act, and understand. (From Life Lines, p.ix and viii)
The Preface also states: "Our goal has been to make all aspects of this collection underscore the heart of the quotations-words which display Dr. Wierwille's great understanding of God and His Word, his penetrating insight into people and life, and his unique motivational ability to inspire people to move to higher planes of living.
Many people helped to produce Life Lines, but first of all I want to thank every person who recalled, wrote down, and sent in the quotations which moved them. Without you, there would be no book." (From Life Lines, p.xi)
Those who still want to make a case of VPW plagarizing other peoples works need to stop and re-consider this was a collaborative effort - which included others - it may have even included them. Some people still got their finger fixed on accusing VPW of plagarism, but have forgotten they have 3 fingers pointing back at themselves. Oh - you mean to tell me the PFAL series wasn't a collaborative effort with others, only Life Lines was? Whose kidding who? After all, without you there would be no book. (It just seems to me that book is still being written here...)
“Where should this go.. don't worry. I can go almost anywhere..”-- Ham.
You’re too easy. You must be a tame squirrel.
Bloviating??? Never heard of it. Looked it up and by golly it’s a real word, and not a typo. Obviate. I know that word. Oblivious? Intimately familiar with that one. The things I learn on GS…
I appreciate the clarification on Life Lines. I had thought they were entirely vp, and later on came across the same quotes in other things I read. Then I was scratching my head about it.
What I'm writing below is not to defend these quotes, but to put them in context.
TWI is not the only group that defines religion this way. Many Christian groups define religion as what man made, and Christianity as what God did and does. Using the dictionary definition Christianity is a religion, but if you want to try play with words to make a distinction between Religious (traditions) Christianity and what God does you might define it this way. But it is not a dictionary definition.
In regards to the traditions spoken of, you don't see as many of them in most of today's churches, but they are still very prevelent in the Catholic and Luthern churchs which was VPW's background. In the 50's and 60's they were even more prevelent than today.
"All women belong to the king" - while used to justify some really bad actions by many in the TWI, unfortunatly, as far
as history is concerned, accurate in a great many nations in the dark ages. But I'm not sure that it could be applied to King David. After all God and Samual seem pretty upset about David's fling. Also in the law set down by Moses, one of them was "the king shall not multiply wives to himself."
Regarding the last quote. There are many Madison Avenue execs who would agree with that statment and be proud of using negitive motivation to sell products. In fact I had good friend who left the advertising business because he said everything they did was based on building fear in people.
Unfortunatly, TWI became almost everything they originally taught against.
was for one purpose and one purpose only. THe logic for that purpose goes like this:
"Real" Christianity isn't a religion
Therefore Christian churches that are a religion, aren't "real" Christianity
TWI is not a religion and so therefore, is "real" Christianity
Just more of VPWs semantic twists and dodges to muddy the waters so that when he held out what he claimed to be "the truth" it would be more readily accepted as such.
Very articulate, Templelady. To that I would add that denominations were compared to the Pharisees and not on their own merits. Then to say the heads of them all were run by “seed boys” was really over the top. The irony of course is twi was a religion itself.
At the same time, I think Keith does raise some valid points:
I think the point about context is very important and a key point to understanding both vp and twi. I thought he was raised Evangelical Reformed…or is that what he got into as an adult? For myself I have no knowledge of what denominations were like back then other than the one I grew up in, which was indeed a negative place (going to hell every five minutes).
Culturally in general the U.S. was fantastically different then. Civil rights were just starting to be addressed (blacks at the back of the bus, separate restrooms, etc), women’s rights, and it didn’t even become against the law to abuse children until the late 80’s and early 90’s. Then there was Viet Nam, Nixon (Watergate). It was a culture in which a significant number of “baby boomers” had little confidence in “the establishment.”
From another perspective, lots of awful things have gone on in history (even today) in the name of religion and those things were carried out by men who thought they were right, all others wrong, and they had/have the right to carry out capital punishment. Religion I think is fine, it’s just some of the people in them and sometimes running them that are the problem.
Markomalley said this on a different thread that I think is appropriate here:
“Something that I thought from the moment that I was exposed to TWI (and still think to this day) is that if the mainline churches did their jobs better, there would have never been a need out there to be filled by a cult group like TWI. And that's a shame.”
Markomalley said this on a different thread that I think is appropriate here:
"Something that I thought from the moment that I was exposed to TWI (and still think to this day) is that if the mainline churches did their jobs better, there would have never been a need out there to be filled by a cult group like TWI. And that's a shame."
that could be expanded to:
if the mainline churches did their jobs better, there would never have been a need out there for abortion, same sex marriages, divorce etc. etc. etc.
What I'm writing below is not to defend these quotes, but to put them in context.
TWI is not the only group that defines religion this way. Many Christian groups define religion as what man made, and Christianity as what God did and does. Using the dictionary definition Christianity is a religion, but if you want to try play with words to make a distinction between Religious (traditions) Christianity and what God does you might define it this way. But it is not a dictionary definition.
In regards to the traditions spoken of, you don't see as many of them in most of today's churches, but they are still very prevelent in the Catholic and Luthern churchs which was VPW's background. In the 50's and 60's they were even more prevelent than today.
"All women belong to the king" - while used to justify some really bad actions by many in the TWI, unfortunatly, as far
as history is concerned, accurate in a great many nations in the dark ages. But I'm not sure that it could be applied to King David. After all God and Samual seem pretty upset about David's fling. Also in the law set down by Moses, one of them was "the king shall not multiply wives to himself."
Regarding the last quote. There are many Madison Avenue execs who would agree with that statment and be proud of using negitive motivation to sell products. In fact I had good friend who left the advertising business because he said everything they did was based on building fear in people.
Unfortunatly, TWI became almost everything they originally taught against.
Wierwille was of the Reformed tradtion, not Lutheran. sorry to correct you Keith.
What ever VPW did, whatever he said it was always with the thought "will this benefit me?". Most of us have that thought quite frequently but on the other hand most of us do not perceive of ourselves as a demi-god to whom reverence and adulation is OWED.
I think someone should sit down and write down all the wonderful things I have ever said and put it in a book! It could be a book of me quoting other people...
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another spot
I really didn't mean to put this here...
And, I'm not even sure where it should go.
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Ham
yep.. read a verse, and then have illustrations from Shakespear, go around the world.. and a person comes up with this.
:)
In the context, Jesus wasn't calling them "religious".. he called them hypocrites. Off busy washing pans, robbing people's parents..
Sounds like twi of today.
religion was the opposite in James.
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Ham
Where should this go.. don't worry. I can go almost anywhere..
I think these are some of the more "intellectual" appearing quotes of vp.. sounds so slick, "we" or at leat "I" took it for granted that it was absolute truth..
This is almost a direct quote of Bullinger in How to enjoy the Bible. In the class it is practically an exact quote, about having courage to go to the fountain head of truth.I dunno. I've met some fundamental Jewish people who are pretty darn peaceful..
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George Aar
And as religions go, Wayferism was a pretty pathetic excuse.
Lots of cheap, home-cooked aphorisms, even more appeals to one's greed and ego, and even a small hint of common sense from time to time. But overall it was a pretty cheesy MLM with no real product to even sell, other than false hope and a bloated, baseless sense of superiority.
The fact that we were gulliible enough to buy doesn't speak very highly of us, I'm afraid.
Well, we did eventually get over it, that's something...
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GrouchoMarxJr
Most of us did...I'm afraid that's there's still some puddin' heads out there that scarf up the bile that VeePee dished out...A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
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What The Hey
Some of the quotes in the Life Lines book (from TWI) are not original quotes by VPW. Some of the quotes in the book were quotes made by Emerson and also by Will Rogers I believe. Of course, the Life Lines book makes mention that VPW loved to read Ralph Waldo Emerson and Will Rogers and that's likely where he got those quotes from. Those quotes by Emerson and Rogers were just re-worded to fit Way-speak terminology.
Just off the top of my head, the quotes: The media can take a lie and get it around the world before the truth can put its shirt on and A teaching should be like a women's dress - long enough to cover the subject but short enough to keep it interesting are not VPW originals. It is hard to make a case VPW plagarized these quotes - other than the fact some quotes are re-worded to fit Way-speak.
In the Preface of Life Lines, LCM and VPW were flying home on Ambassador One to TWI and VPW made this comment to LCM: "Maybe you ought to think about putting a book together, son, made up of short statements I've spoken over the years which have blessed people." That was the end of the subject. ...
Pithy succinct, crystallized statements of depth and resonance were not only admired by Dr. Wierwille, but utilized and developed. He developed the art form of teaching with that style - not generalizing, but speaking to the core of an issue of truth in a vocabulary and manner that encouraged the listener to savor, decide, believe, act, and understand. (From Life Lines, p.ix and viii)
The Preface also states: "Our goal has been to make all aspects of this collection underscore the heart of the quotations-words which display Dr. Wierwille's great understanding of God and His Word, his penetrating insight into people and life, and his unique motivational ability to inspire people to move to higher planes of living.
Many people helped to produce Life Lines, but first of all I want to thank every person who recalled, wrote down, and sent in the quotations which moved them. Without you, there would be no book." (From Life Lines, p.xi)
Those who still want to make a case of VPW plagarizing other peoples works need to stop and re-consider this was a collaborative effort - which included others - it may have even included them. Some people still got their finger fixed on accusing VPW of plagarism, but have forgotten they have 3 fingers pointing back at themselves. Oh - you mean to tell me the PFAL series wasn't a collaborative effort with others, only Life Lines was? Whose kidding who? After all, without you there would be no book. (It just seems to me that book is still being written here...)
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Raf
VPW didn't write Life Lines.
Therefore, it cannot be an example of plagiarism on his part. He didn't pick the quotes, after all.
I think it was presented in context and thus adequately documented to avoid that charge even if he had written it.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
WT, sorry if I sound like Bill O'Reilly but no bloviating. Keep it succint and pithy. Name and town.
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another spot
“Where should this go.. don't worry. I can go almost anywhere..”-- Ham.
You’re too easy. You must be a tame squirrel.
Bloviating??? Never heard of it. Looked it up and by golly it’s a real word, and not a typo. Obviate. I know that word. Oblivious? Intimately familiar with that one. The things I learn on GS…
I appreciate the clarification on Life Lines. I had thought they were entirely vp, and later on came across the same quotes in other things I read. Then I was scratching my head about it.
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excathedra
haven't read the quotes, thank you very much
but i did have one under my little avitar for a long time
it went something like
" a man of god is one of a kind "
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Keith
What I'm writing below is not to defend these quotes, but to put them in context.
TWI is not the only group that defines religion this way. Many Christian groups define religion as what man made, and Christianity as what God did and does. Using the dictionary definition Christianity is a religion, but if you want to try play with words to make a distinction between Religious (traditions) Christianity and what God does you might define it this way. But it is not a dictionary definition.
In regards to the traditions spoken of, you don't see as many of them in most of today's churches, but they are still very prevelent in the Catholic and Luthern churchs which was VPW's background. In the 50's and 60's they were even more prevelent than today.
"All women belong to the king" - while used to justify some really bad actions by many in the TWI, unfortunatly, as far
as history is concerned, accurate in a great many nations in the dark ages. But I'm not sure that it could be applied to King David. After all God and Samual seem pretty upset about David's fling. Also in the law set down by Moses, one of them was "the king shall not multiply wives to himself."
Regarding the last quote. There are many Madison Avenue execs who would agree with that statment and be proud of using negitive motivation to sell products. In fact I had good friend who left the advertising business because he said everything they did was based on building fear in people.
Unfortunatly, TWI became almost everything they originally taught against.
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oldiesman
"The Word of God is the will of God"
Perhaps the most powerful of VP's quotes.
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WordWolf
It certainly made an impression on vpw.
After all, he heard it from Leonard FIRST in Leonard's class, and wasted no time
in repeating it when he taught Leonard's class with his own name on it.
It was quite powerful when Leonard said it,
and quite powerful when vpw said it.
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templelady
All this dithering about
"'real' Christianity isn't a religion"
was for one purpose and one purpose only. THe logic for that purpose goes like this:
Just more of VPWs semantic twists and dodges to muddy the waters so that when he held out what he claimed to be "the truth" it would be more readily accepted as such.
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another spot
Very articulate, Templelady. To that I would add that denominations were compared to the Pharisees and not on their own merits. Then to say the heads of them all were run by “seed boys” was really over the top. The irony of course is twi was a religion itself.
At the same time, I think Keith does raise some valid points:
I think the point about context is very important and a key point to understanding both vp and twi. I thought he was raised Evangelical Reformed…or is that what he got into as an adult? For myself I have no knowledge of what denominations were like back then other than the one I grew up in, which was indeed a negative place (going to hell every five minutes).
Culturally in general the U.S. was fantastically different then. Civil rights were just starting to be addressed (blacks at the back of the bus, separate restrooms, etc), women’s rights, and it didn’t even become against the law to abuse children until the late 80’s and early 90’s. Then there was Viet Nam, Nixon (Watergate). It was a culture in which a significant number of “baby boomers” had little confidence in “the establishment.”
From another perspective, lots of awful things have gone on in history (even today) in the name of religion and those things were carried out by men who thought they were right, all others wrong, and they had/have the right to carry out capital punishment. Religion I think is fine, it’s just some of the people in them and sometimes running them that are the problem.
Markomalley said this on a different thread that I think is appropriate here:
“Something that I thought from the moment that I was exposed to TWI (and still think to this day) is that if the mainline churches did their jobs better, there would have never been a need out there to be filled by a cult group like TWI. And that's a shame.”
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templelady
that could be expanded to:
if the mainline churches did their jobs better, there would never have been a need out there for abortion, same sex marriages, divorce etc. etc. etc.
Just my opinion
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
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waysider
"E=MC2"
Perhaps one of the most powerful quotes in modern science.
;)
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George Aar
QUOTE(oldiesman @ Jul 3 2007, 10:33 AM)
"The Word of God is the will of God"
Perhaps the most powerful of VP's quotes.
"E=MC2"
Perhaps one of the most powerful quotes in modern science.
"Sometimes I sits and thinks. And sometimes I just sits"
Perhaps the most powerful of Popeye's quotes.
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Yanagisawa
"Wise guy, eh? "
Perhaps the most powerful of Moe Howard's quotes.
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Keith
"Wierwille was of the Reformed tradtion, not Lutheran. sorry to correct you Keith."
You may be right, for some reason I have it stuck in my mind that he was Lutheran. On top of that it was Nathan, not Samual that corrected David.
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Ham
vic did model himself as a mog like unto Luther.. maybe that's what gave you the idea.
Taped his "theses" on the church door.. was it in New Bremen?
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templelady
What ever VPW did, whatever he said it was always with the thought "will this benefit me?". Most of us have that thought quite frequently but on the other hand most of us do not perceive of ourselves as a demi-god to whom reverence and adulation is OWED.
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JavaJane
I think someone should sit down and write down all the wonderful things I have ever said and put it in a book! It could be a book of me quoting other people...
Why haven't I thought of this before??
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