Going to the new museum

[Bolshevik]

I'm going to the new creation museum on Sunday. I've been putting together a list of questions to ask when I get there. Does anyone else have some ideas?

Edited June 29, 2007 by Bolshevik

[likeaneagle]

I havent been on all week..just found this..I just want to hear what you think..which one are you going to vist?

[GarthP2000]

I got a question you can ask the proprietor of said museum.

Ask him what would he do (as a fellow scientist, and all) if he found evidence that clearly cut across and contradicted the Genesis account?

How would he handle that? ... Would he even consider the possiblity of that happening?

Pain in the keister I am, ... I know. :B)

[waysider]

I probably wouldn't ask questions.

I would just listen and take in as much as I could.

But, that's just me saying what I would do and not me giving any kind of advice.

Above all, enjoy your experience.

[GarthP2000]

Oh, and make sure you visit, and get us pictures of, the flat earth exhibit.

:B)

[Bolshevik]

I enjoyed the museum Garth. My wife and I plan to return in a month or two. Lots of info.

Have you seen the movie Napolean Dynomite?

There was a scene where he talks about the "liger", half lion-half tiger. I thought he was just being a dork. Apparantly, they do exist. There's one in Reno, NV. There's also big cats called "tigons".

[likeaneagle]

Since your going back to see more, most suredly you must have been impressed.Can you tell us what struck you?..was it the details or all?..can you get more specific?thank you

Edited July 2, 2007 by likeaneagle

[Bolshevik]

There is a lot to go through. We spent about 4-5 hours there and didn't see everything.

One thing I'm focusing on is hybrid animals. The idea is that one animal type was made, and the diversity we see today are descendents of that type. (Flows along with evolution theory yes.) An animal type would have at first diversified into a number of species, but then these were all wiped out by the flood. A representative pair(s) would have survived on the ark, diversifying again once the flood receded. This would account for species in the fossil record not found today, but that are very similar to species found today.

As far as the Ark and flood, (to be brief). Scale models were shown in comparison to humans, elephants, giraffes, and yes, dinosaurs. The ark was big enough.

A global flood was postulated to account for current geography an geology. Current events like Mount St. Helens erruption were used to explain ideas. (The tsunamil near indonesia was not mention though it would have been a great example.) Reasoning was given for much phenomena. Including the Grand Canyon, ice cap layers, why certain fossils are found in certain layers etc etc.

There were some fossils, although as they say "This exhibit is still evolving". Impressions and replicas of famous fossils such as the German archeopteryx and "Lucy" were on display. They had a huge whoolly rhinocerous skeleton.

There was a lot. Like I said, a return visit is needed.

[Nottawayfer]

I enjoyed the museum Garth. My wife and I plan to return in a month or two. Lots of info.

Have you seen the movie Napolean Dynomite?

There was a scene where he talks about the "liger", half lion-half tiger. I thought he was just being a dork. Apparantly, they do exist. There's one in Reno, NV. There's also big cats called "tigons".

I went to Sealife Park in Oahu Hawaii back in the late 80s. There was a Walphin there. It is part dolphin and part killer whale. I told people at work about it, and they said I was exaggerating. If they really knew me, they would know I just don't do that kind of stuff. Anywhoo, there wasn't google.com back then, and one of them went to Hawaii and verified it for themselves. Dolphins and Killer Whales are of the same genus. Their being in captivity together was the first time this was known of happening. The Walphin did produce offspring too. It was not sterile.

R*bin M*gnelli did a sharing while I was at HQ about evolution and how it couldn't happen. I'm trying to remember her theories. She talked a lot about the missing link and how there isn't one.

[Bolshevik]

I went to Sealife Park in Oahu Hawaii back in the late 80s. There was a Walphin there. It is part dolphin and part killer whale. I told people at work about it, and they said I was exaggerating. If they really knew me, they would know I just don't do that kind of stuff. Anywhoo, there wasn't google.com back then, and one of them went to Hawaii and verified it for themselves. Dolphins and Killer Whales are of the same genus. Their being in captivity together was the first time this was known of happening. The Walphin did produce offspring too. It was not sterile.

R*bin M*gnelli did a sharing while I was at HQ about evolution and how it couldn't happen. I'm trying to remember her theories. She talked a lot about the missing link and how there isn't one.

I've heard of bottlenose dolphins and false killer whale hybrids. I don't see why killer whales couldn't breed with dolphins. That must've been cool to see.

[Bolshevik]

There was a variety of topics covered at the museum. If you liked the book "The Two Babylons" (or at least some of the content) the were topics discussed more simply at the museum.

One was human language. Human languages can be said to have "evolved" from other languages. i.e. The romance languages from latin. They discussed that if you trace the origins of languages back it can be shown that a number of languages suddenly appeared at the time of the Tower of Babel.

edited for grammer

Edited July 3, 2007 by Bolshevik

[Bolshevik]

An important part of the hybrid idea:

http://www.cnn.com/EARTH/9801/20/cama.ap/

note how long evolutionists say the evolution of camels and llamas has been occurring. Yet they can still interbreed to produce viable offspring. (Important: remember that llamas come from south America and camels from Africa or the middle east.) The wide variety of dogs we see today only took 100-300 years to develop from a relatively few varieties (with human intervention of course). The "Cama" suggests millions of years, as required by evolutionary theory, are completely unnecessary.

(I didn't notice human intervention mentioned at the museum, I may have missed it. Human intervention could very well have played a part in the diversity of the wild species we see today, as well as geographic location.)

BTW: Marsupials and their unique presence in Australia (and the Americas) was discussed in the museum. Something to do with their ability to travel vs. placental mammals. They simply got places faster after the ark landed.

(edited for spelling)

Edited July 3, 2007 by Bolshevik

[Bolshevik]

More hybrids:

http://www.messybeast.com/genetics/hybrid-cats.htm

[excathedra]

this is SO interesting, tanks

[gladtobeout]

I have heard many great things about the museum. I can't wait to go later this month.

[Bolshevik]

Some believe (evolutionists included) that gorillas and chimpanzees can interbreed. There are rumors of a new species of ape living in the Congo. Skulls of this ape reveal it has both gorilla and chimpanzee qualities.

It is possible that the skeletons of hominids found in the fossil record, like Lucy, are relatives of modern apes. They were wiped out by the flood, or sometime after. Ape representatives on the ark gave rise to the apes we see today.

Scientists debate about what happened to Neanderthals. Some (including evolutionists) believe they interbred with humans are were simply absorbed into our modern population. (Therefore some of us carry pieces of the genetic code of what were once Neanderthals).

Neanderthals, Cro-Magnon man, and other human-like skeletons could simply just be different humans. Take a look around and notice how varied modern humans are. It is possible that humans, prior to the flood, had the genetic ability to be even more varied. (The giants in genesis could have very well been just that, giant humans. Just like there were giant sloths, giant beavers, giant camels, giant you-name-it, as recorded in the fossil record.)

If humans could be found to have the ability to interbreed with apes, there might be a problem with this ark and flood idea . . .

List of hominid fossils:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hominina_fossils

(edited for spelling)

Edited July 3, 2007 by Bolshevik

[GarthP2000]

It could also be possible that, while its possible to do intra- or inter-species breeding, once the species/genus differences become too great, the inter-breeding then becomes impossible.

Also keep in mind that Mendel's Law was authored/compiled over 100-150 years ago (about the same time as Darwin, I believe), and that, like Darwin's theories, predates many of the biological/zoological discoveries made since then.

[Bolshevik]

It could also be possible that, while its possible to do intra- or inter-species breeding, once the species/genus differences become too great, the inter-breeding then becomes impossible.

Also keep in mind that Mendel's Law was authored/compiled over 100-150 years ago (about the same time as Darwin, I believe), and that, like Darwin's theories, predates many of the biological/zoological discoveries made since then.

Here's an example of going back even to the family level

http://www.messybeast.com/genetics/hybrid-swine.htm

Mendel's Law sat on Darwin's desk, but Darwin never opened it. It's the deeper understanding of molecular genetics that got me to doubt the evolution idea. Seeing how complicated life is at the molecular level, yet so perfect. And so much going on. The explainations evolutionists give here at the University are nothing more that ideas themselves. Philosophy. Plus, there's so much left to be discovered.

Evolution, all life descending from a common ancestor, has not been proven.

[GT]

Just my opinion:

Calling this place a museum is a joke. Squeezing 2,000+ year old mythology into scientific facts, distorting them, and outright misrepresenting/changing them is blatant dishonesty.

There is no evidence of a global flood occurring 4,500 years ago. There is no evidence of a global flood ever occurring. If the entire earth was ever covered in water, it would leave a layer of sediment and be visible wherever you dug. How can anyone ignore a basic fact like this to squeeze in a myth story taken from two older myth stories (the Egyptian Hermopollitian Creation myth and Babylonian flood myths), haphazardly combined and converted to monotheism?

If you really want to put your noggin to work and use some common sense, picture the boat Noah supposedly built. It had 1 window, approximately 2 feet by 2 feet. Now picture these thousands of animals on the boat defecating and urinating every day. You've got 1 small window to provide ventilation. Think that's enough? Living in a sewer for months with little ventilation is survivable, right? Oh wait! The 8 people on the boat could have worked 24x7 carting the feces up to and out the window and siphoning the urine out and still had time to feed all the animals and themselves. That's workable. Yeah!

Tell me, what would be the difference between this "museum" and one set up to show the creation of the earth by the Greek gods? Is there any?

Anyway, enjoy your "museum".

[excathedra]

:huh: :blink:

[Bolshevik]

Just my opinion:

Calling this place a museum is a joke. Squeezing 2,000+ year old mythology into scientific facts, distorting them, and outright misrepresenting/changing them is blatant dishonesty.

There is no evidence of a global flood occurring 4,500 years ago. There is no evidence of a global flood ever occurring. If the entire earth was ever covered in water, it would leave a layer of sediment and be visible wherever you dug. How can anyone ignore a basic fact like this to squeeze in a myth story taken from two older myth stories (the Egyptian Hermopollitian Creation myth and Babylonian flood myths), haphazardly combined and converted to monotheism?

If you really want to put your noggin to work and use some common sense, picture the boat Noah supposedly built. It had 1 window, approximately 2 feet by 2 feet. Now picture these thousands of animals on the boat defecating and urinating every day. You've got 1 small window to provide ventilation. Think that's enough? Living in a sewer for months with little ventilation is survivable, right? Oh wait! The 8 people on the boat could have worked 24x7 carting the feces up to and out the window and siphoning the urine out and still had time to feed all the animals and themselves. That's workable. Yeah!

Tell me, what would be the difference between this "museum" and one set up to show the creation of the earth by the Greek gods? Is there any?

Anyway, enjoy your "museum".

IMO Anyone who believes evolution is just as much a religious nut. Where's the proof?

Evolution is B.S. You don't believe God or gods. Are you offering an alternative view? Are we genetically designed by aliens? Is that what you're saying?

[Bolshevik]

There was plenty of explanations at the museum to show that a prior post in this thread is nonsense.

There were photos of layers of coal. They are flat on the top and bottom. There are perfect layer of a sediment dividing it.

There are fossils that cut through the layers. Up and down. Cutting through supposedly millions of years.

The sedimentary layers were caused by a global flood.

You'll have to see at the museum.

As far as the ark, yes, I'm sure they were working hard to haul off poop. Seems like a moot point.

[Bolshevik]

. . . How can anyone ignore a basic fact like this to squeeze in a myth story taken from two older myth stories (the Egyptian Hermopollitian Creation myth and Babylonian flood myths), haphazardly combined and converted to monotheism?

. . .

Now here, aren't you just giving more credibility to the idea that there was an ark and flood?

[Bolshevik]

. . .

Tell me, what would be the difference between this "museum" and one set up to show the creation of the earth by the Greek gods? Is there any?

. . .

Don't a lot of museums display the ancient gods of Egypt, Greece, and Babylon? Does anyone have a problem with this?

So this new museum displays the record of Genesis, along with explainations by real scientists about why we see what we see. There was an incredible amount of food for thought.

[GT]

IMO Anyone who believes evolution is just as much a religious nut. Where's the proof?

Evolution is B.S. You don't believe God or gods. Are you offering an alternative view? Are we genetically designed by aliens? Is that what you're saying?

A slight suggestion to pay attention in biology class.

Proof? How much do you need? There are volumes of evidence you seem to ignore.

There was plenty of explanations at the museum to show that a prior post in this thread is nonsense.

There were photos of layers of coal. They are flat on the top and bottom. There are perfect layer of a sediment dividing it.

There are fossils that cut through the layers. Up and down. Cutting through supposedly millions of years.

The sedimentary layers were caused by a global flood.

You'll have to see at the museum.

As far as the ark, yes, I'm sure they were working hard to haul off poop. Seems like a moot point.

Why is it that this museum is the only one claiming proof of a global flood? And their proof is one layer of coal?

I don't think you understand the magnitude of the amount of "poop" that would have to be carted off. Of course if your in the habit of ignoring physical laws, then it's easy as pie.

Now here, aren't you just giving more credibility to the idea that there was an ark and flood?

Been arks and floods throughout history. But none that encompassed the entire earth, or even worse, kept a set of every living creature.

Don't a lot of museums display the ancient gods of Egypt, Greece, and Babylon? Does anyone have a problem with this?

So this new museum displays the record of Genesis, along with explainations by real scientists about why we see what we see. There was an incredible amount of food for thought.

As far as I know, this museum is the only one of its kind that claims to be scientific proof of a myth.

If it wants to claim to be a museum of Christian beliefs, I have no problem with it. But when they distort scientific facts, warp logic, and disgrace common sense in the guise of science -- that I have a problem with.