In one part of that book he said that doing acid gave pneumata direct access to you; that one spirit would cause chilling sensations to go up and down your spine and another one would do something else at the same time.
... and then he 'took the Class' as it were, and while he didn't undergo 'chilling sensations' (it was more like 'dulling sensations'), I would be willing to bet that more 'pneumata direct access' was given, and I ain't talking about the good kind either.
Not "Crowley", Craley, David Craley, the guy who wrote the book "The Hope Of Glory, In Search Of The Light". He was a TWI guy who used to be gay, and tells his story in that book. And in the book, he talks of doing LSD as well as describing his introduction to homosexuality, his homosexual experiences and subsequent delivery from that lifestyle. During his time in The Way, after his book was published, he became a "confidant" for those who had been gay and were still struggling with the temptation to go back to homo sex. I think though as time went on, he has returned to his former lifestyle. But, that is only what "I heard" from "somebody", so, I don't really know. If he did return to his previous homosexual lifestyle, then I would guess that he'd be looking at his book as one huge blunder huh? I think somebody here at the GSCafe used to be his wife, or maybe is his sister, so, be nice.
And speaking of reefer, I saw an old acquaintence of mine, a plasterer, who was wearing a hat that I thought said; "Pipe Fitters Union Local 420". And I said to him, "Hey Kevin are you also a Pipefitter"? And he said with a grin; "Read it a little more closely". And sure enough, it read "Pipe Hitters Union Local 420". And, I got a big kick out of that. 420, hah!
And, as far as I am concerned, marijuana is a rotten drug, and that those who partake of it almost always have a big "L" on their forehead.
geez, jonny, were you always such a redneck? from my point of view, it's folks who make huge, unsubstantiated generalizations who have the biggest "L" on their foreheads.
Nope, never been a redneck. And, I have smoked pounds and pounds of the stuff back in the day, and so, I would hardly say that my conclusion is unsubstantiated. And I also have many acquaintences today in the construction field who are still pot heads (are you a pot head Focker? ), and who still blow their $150.00 bucks every paycheck for a quarter ounce of "bud". And almost all of them are Losers who can't seem to get a "life" going on and become productive, even though they make good coin. I have seen it over and over and over. And the other day, I met a man on his seventieth birthday who kept forgetting what he was talking about in mid story. The first time he did it, he was real embarrassed, and I recognized it immediately. And I told him, ya know, that's what I would call a "marijuana moment". And he lightened up, and said; Yeah! I still smoke lots of reefer. And I know that's what does it to me! P i ss es me off!" And he proceeded to do it at least ten more times. He'd go off on a tangent, and boom! There'd go his main line of thinking and he'd forget. It was amazing. It was like watching re-runs of me back when I was seventeen. After he did it the third time, I began to monitor whatever he was saying closer, and was able to help him back on track each time which made him happy, and he thanked me for it. I also told him that maybe it was time to "put the bong down". He laughed at that too, and agreed. No, I think that reefer is way more destructive than stoners want to believe. Yet, I do believe that people should have the right to smoke it, should they so desire, just like when it comes to alcohol. I just don't like it when they forget that they are driving a car, or something like that...
A lot of the weed today isn't the weed of the seventies either.. THC concentrations are multiples of the stuff we played with back then.
No kiddin! Whew! About two years ago, I was working in one of the Eskimo villages out West, and my partner, who smoked daily (and has since quit-amazing!), offered this Eskimo dude some reefer while we were working. And so, I too took a hit, and man! Just like that, "I was back". That was some serious killer weed. Up here in Alaska, there is a "breed" known as "Matanuska Thunder f_ck", which is what my partner had. And just that one hit reminded me immediately why I had quit back when I was seventeen. Alls we had back then, for the most part was what we called "Mexican dirt weed". We got just as stoned no doubt, but we smoked bowl after bowl through out the day and night. A whole oz would be gone in a couple of days, basically.
And the other day, I met a man on his seventieth birthday who kept forgetting what he was talking about in mid story. The first time he did it, he was real embarrassed, and I recognized it immediately. And I told him, ya know, that's what I would call a "marijuana moment". And he lightened up, and said; Yeah! I still smoke lots of reefer. And I know that's what does it to me! P i ss es me off!" And he proceeded to do it at least ten more times. He'd go off on a tangent, and boom! There'd go his main line of thinking and he'd forget. It was amazing. It was like watching re-runs of me back when I was seventeen. After he did it the third time, I began to monitor whatever he was saying closer, and was able to help him back on track each time which made him happy, and he thanked me for it.
OK two things - slightly off topic but not too far off:
My Dad has always, ALWAYS had a horrible memory. Lately it started getting much worst. He was diagnosed with Altzheimer's about a month ago. He's never smoked reefer and he's 83. If this man that you met was having his 70th birthday, it is entirely possible that his memory loss has absolutely nothing to do with reefer and everything to do with his age.
OTOH - my sis-in-law is a member of MENSA. She also has Myosthenia Gravis (sp?) In effect, this is a disease where the immune system acts overtime..... She keeps pot in the house and smokes it in small but regular amounts. She's got a better memory and mind than her husband who is quite brilliant in his own right - but also drinks a LOT.
It's not just something you can draw conclusions on and make snap judgements about.
well, i know plenty of folks who smoke fairly regularly and lead productive lives. jobs, families, investment portfolios, etc., etc. so i have trouble blaming the pot for some people's inability to get a life.
i was gonna say some other stuff, but i forget what it was.
Ive been gone for about a week and just saw this thread so I havent read all the responses.
I personally think there is a line between Marijuana use and Marijuana abuse that gets crossed way too often. at least in our culture. There is no doubt in my mind that it is a very powerful herb that has a lot of positive possibiliies but its abuse only for inebriation and dulling of the senses is unfortuantely way too common.
In some cultures, particularly native cultures, it is administered as a sacred herb by elders and medicine men, who guide users into understanding how it works beneficially. Most of us have received no such instruction--at least i know that i havent-- so mostly it remains a mystery to me.
I believe it has the capability to open windows of awareness and doors of perception that are generally closed out by everyday stresses, and can in the right circumstances enhance creativity, (American jazz famously developed and took leaps forward from 'reefer'
Native shamans, and medicine men go further and write of it as a tool to experince visions, dreams, insights, spirit travel
I have nothing against it, but if (big if-for me it is extremely rare) I partake I am very careful--no pressing business to tend to of any great importance for at least a day, no driving--things like that. I realize that it is a very powerful herb
But I have to say I do enjoy it when it does happen-usually only a toke and the colors get brighter and crisper, music and sounds get infinitely more interesting, ideas, concepts and sensations that have been hiding in the shadows come to the foreground.
Stress relief is near immediate.
I now know (as opposed to when I was much younger) know when to stop, and still then make it a very rare and special thing.
I think it should be studied. There is doubt in my mind that it has immense power but so far, at least in our culture, it seems it has never really been understaood and rarely used in what could be very beneficial ways.
Older cultures that have had it for 1000's of years seem to have somewhat of a better grasp on its use and benefits--we could learn alot from them
not to be a buzzkiller, but i must say i strongly agree with mstar's points
...especially as it pertains to kids
and yeah, people have died from smoking too much pot...either from lung cancer...or just being mindless while doing dangerous things
you guys might find this article on Entheogens interesting/useful
especially this part:
According to some scholars,[4]cannabis was an ingredient of holy anointing oil mentioned in various sacred Hebrew texts. The herb of interest is most commonly known as kanah-bosim (קְנֵה-בֹשֶׂם), the singular form of which would be kanah-bos.[5] This is mentioned several times in the Old Testament as a bartering material, incense, and an ingredient in holy anointing oil used by the high priest of the temple.
The Septuagint translates kaneh-bosm as calamus, and this translation has been propagated unchanged to most later translations of the old testament. However, Polish anthropologist Sula Benet published etymological arguments that the Aramaic word for hemp can be read as kannabos and appears to be a cognate to the modern word 'cannabis',[6] with the root kan meaning reed or hemp and bosm meaning fragrant. Both cannabis and calamus are fragrant, reedlike plants containing psychotropic compounds.
Although some scholars, particularly philologist John Marco Allegro, have suggested that the self-revelation and subsequent healing abilities attributed to Jesus of Nazareth may have been associated with a drug, there is no credible evidence or academic support for such assertions. It is conceivable that the ecstatic experiences of some Christian hermits and mystics in the centuries following Jesus may have involved (perhaps unwittingly) the use of entheogens, in addition to fasting, etc, but this is, naturally, mere speculation.
Allegro's book, The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, relates the development of language to the development of myths, religions and cultic practices in world cultures. Allegro believed he could prove, through etymology, that the roots of Christianity, as of many other religions, lay in fertility cults; and that cultic practices, such as ingesting hallucinogenic drugs to perceive the mind of god, persisted into Christian times.
and yeah...i am a freak...in that alongside all my other studies in states and stages of consciousness (including altered)...i have spent a bit of time looking into the history of drugs and rites of passage
...gawd...somebody shoot me (or pm me if interested)
the topic sure would be another interesting gsc podcast experiment..hehe
btw...Dr Stan Grof (whom i have met) and Dr Andrew Weil have both done extensive research into the subject
Legalize it, regulate production, and prices, and age limits that can purchase it. Ditto all other recreational drugs, gambling and prostitution.
It is not the job of government to regulate morality or one groups idea of morality--it is the job of government to protect its citizens.
Better drugs that are quality controlled in their making, better prostitutes that are having regular medical screening with lists of clients if something shows up, better legalized gambling instead of after-hours houses where drugs and prostitutes also operate freely.
Well, it's been 33 years since I inhaled and initially it was a blast, but I don't miss the paranoia or the forgetfulness that came along after the fun. Good grief...I've always had a hard time keeping my train of thought and I wonder if my high times didn't contribute to my scatterbrain-edness now.
This is going to sound snotty but here goes...it's one thing to smoke when you're college-age, but the image I get of someone who continues the habit into their 40's and beyond is...well...rusty cars in the front yard...mullet hair cut...lack of ambition.
To paraphrase Neil Young...I've seen the weed-le and the damage done.
I fail to see the thrill in "altered states" of mind, whether from alcohol or from herbal concoctions. I am quite happy with my wit, artistic perceptions, and general well being, without the need to create something that is temporary by drinking, smoking or otherwise ingesting more garbage into my body than that which is all too present in our everyday meals and environment.
Its just my opinion, but aside from the "claimed" pain relief for those who are unable to find such relief fromother sources, I do not see any benefits especially for otherwise well adjusted adults.
And I also have many acquaintences today in the construction field who are still pot heads (are you a pot head Focker? ), and who still blow their $150.00 bucks every paycheck for a quarter ounce of "bud".
Holy zig zags Batman!...If they're paying THAT much, they ARE losers... In Texas a quarter ounce costs $20 dollars and in Ohio a quarter ounce costs $40...at least that's what I've been told.
Personally, I think that when the consequences of getting caught with it are more harmful to a person than the actual substance is...there is something terribly wrong.
Oh yeah...according to recent studies, people who smoke pot have no worse "short term memory loss" than people who do not smoke it...(except of course, when they are under the influence of it)...
Not because I advocate its use, which I don't, but because there needs to be some consistency in the legal aspects of sale, use and production methods. Much like the consistency that was introduced to the use,etc. of alcohol that fell into place after prohibition.
Plus, think of how much profit the government is missing by not sharing a piece of the pie.
As one poster pointed out earlier, this ain't the same stuff we remember from the 60s and 70s.
This is pot on steroids,so to speak, that is circulating in the current market place.
There is also a physical aspect that has nothing to do with ethics or law.
That aspect is the fact that human lungs just don't seem to like super heated, toxic gases.
I used to know a guy who, through heavy usage, developed emphysema.
Holy zig zags Batman!...If they're paying THAT much, they ARE losers... biglaugh.gif In Texas a quarter ounce costs $20 dollars and in Ohio a quarter ounce costs $40...at least that's what I've been told. rolleyes.gif
Well, up here in Alaska, our 49th state, everything costs more. Way more. For, most everything is shipped here by ocean going barge or container ship. Of course, some smart arse mentioned in an earlier thread that "Alaskans are rich" because of our oil, which is way not true. I am paying $3.55 a gallon for gas, for instance. Refineries are not aloud to be built in the US as you probably know. Not "environmentally friendly". But yeah, a quarter OZ will cost you, Groucho, $125.00 to $150.00 a quarter Oz. But, no problem no doubt, because you druggies will always come up with "whatever it costs" to support your drug habit, like they do here...
The trade off when it comes to the high cost of living here is that we get to live in/on The Last Frontier where whales breach, eagles sit on lamp posts (as well as soar over the mountaintops and swoop down and catch salmon), and glaciers calve, and bears wander the neighborhoods along with the moose. And all of that with a total population of only 650,000 people over an area that is two and a half times the size of little old Texas. And how many millions (including illegal aliens) live down there? Yep, even you druggies have it pretty good up here, even though your weed costs more. You ought to come up and purchase some Matanuska Thunder F_ck...
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... and then he 'took the Class' as it were, and while he didn't undergo 'chilling sensations' (it was more like 'dulling sensations'), I would be willing to bet that more 'pneumata direct access' was given, and I ain't talking about the good kind either.
(using Crowley's terms, that is)
;)
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johniam
You talking about MIH ster Crowley?
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J0nny Ling0
Not "Crowley", Craley, David Craley, the guy who wrote the book "The Hope Of Glory, In Search Of The Light". He was a TWI guy who used to be gay, and tells his story in that book. And in the book, he talks of doing LSD as well as describing his introduction to homosexuality, his homosexual experiences and subsequent delivery from that lifestyle. During his time in The Way, after his book was published, he became a "confidant" for those who had been gay and were still struggling with the temptation to go back to homo sex. I think though as time went on, he has returned to his former lifestyle. But, that is only what "I heard" from "somebody", so, I don't really know. If he did return to his previous homosexual lifestyle, then I would guess that he'd be looking at his book as one huge blunder huh? I think somebody here at the GSCafe used to be his wife, or maybe is his sister, so, be nice.
And speaking of reefer, I saw an old acquaintence of mine, a plasterer, who was wearing a hat that I thought said; "Pipe Fitters Union Local 420". And I said to him, "Hey Kevin are you also a Pipefitter"? And he said with a grin; "Read it a little more closely". And sure enough, it read "Pipe Hitters Union Local 420". And, I got a big kick out of that. 420, hah!
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J0nny Ling0
And, as far as I am concerned, marijuana is a rotten drug, and that those who partake of it almost always have a big "L" on their forehead.
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Oakspear
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GarthP2000
... prolly "L" is for ..... "Liberal"?
;)
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sprawled out
geez, jonny, were you always such a redneck? from my point of view, it's folks who make huge, unsubstantiated generalizations who have the biggest "L" on their foreheads.
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J0nny Ling0
Nope, never been a redneck. And, I have smoked pounds and pounds of the stuff back in the day, and so, I would hardly say that my conclusion is unsubstantiated. And I also have many acquaintences today in the construction field who are still pot heads (are you a pot head Focker?
), and who still blow their $150.00 bucks every paycheck for a quarter ounce of "bud". And almost all of them are Losers who can't seem to get a "life" going on and become productive, even though they make good coin. I have seen it over and over and over. And the other day, I met a man on his seventieth birthday who kept forgetting what he was talking about in mid story. The first time he did it, he was real embarrassed, and I recognized it immediately. And I told him, ya know, that's what I would call a "marijuana moment". And he lightened up, and said; Yeah! I still smoke lots of reefer. And I know that's what does it to me! P i ss es me off!" And he proceeded to do it at least ten more times. He'd go off on a tangent, and boom! There'd go his main line of thinking and he'd forget. It was amazing. It was like watching re-runs of me back when I was seventeen. After he did it the third time, I began to monitor whatever he was saying closer, and was able to help him back on track each time which made him happy, and he thanked me for it. I also told him that maybe it was time to "put the bong down". He laughed at that too, and agreed. No, I think that reefer is way more destructive than stoners want to believe. Yet, I do believe that people should have the right to smoke it, should they so desire, just like when it comes to alcohol. I just don't like it when they forget that they are driving a car, or something like that...
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Ham
Maybe moderation is the key for anything.
I knew at least one kid who would smoke in one evening, at least twenty times what one would smoke for just a nice "high".
Maybe that's why he hasn't called me back yet. Can't remember..
Chronic heavy use of anything can't be very good for a person.
A lot of the weed today isn't the weed of the seventies either.. THC concentrations are multiples of the stuff we played with back then.
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J0nny Ling0
No kiddin! Whew! About two years ago, I was working in one of the Eskimo villages out West, and my partner, who smoked daily (and has since quit-amazing!), offered this Eskimo dude some reefer while we were working. And so, I too took a hit, and man! Just like that, "I was back". That was some serious killer weed. Up here in Alaska, there is a "breed" known as "Matanuska Thunder f_ck", which is what my partner had. And just that one hit reminded me immediately why I had quit back when I was seventeen. Alls we had back then, for the most part was what we called "Mexican dirt weed". We got just as stoned no doubt, but we smoked bowl after bowl through out the day and night. A whole oz would be gone in a couple of days, basically.
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doojable
OK two things - slightly off topic but not too far off:
My Dad has always, ALWAYS had a horrible memory. Lately it started getting much worst. He was diagnosed with Altzheimer's about a month ago. He's never smoked reefer and he's 83. If this man that you met was having his 70th birthday, it is entirely possible that his memory loss has absolutely nothing to do with reefer and everything to do with his age.
OTOH - my sis-in-law is a member of MENSA. She also has Myosthenia Gravis (sp?) In effect, this is a disease where the immune system acts overtime..... She keeps pot in the house and smokes it in small but regular amounts. She's got a better memory and mind than her husband who is quite brilliant in his own right - but also drinks a LOT.
It's not just something you can draw conclusions on and make snap judgements about.
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sprawled out
well, i know plenty of folks who smoke fairly regularly and lead productive lives. jobs, families, investment portfolios, etc., etc. so i have trouble blaming the pot for some people's inability to get a life.
i was gonna say some other stuff, but i forget what it was.
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doojable
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Ham
If you walk out of the room and walk back in, that may help you remember what you were looking for..
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waysider
Oh.sure.
As long as your name's not Dave 'cause everybody knows-----------------------
Dave's not here!!
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mstar1
Ive been gone for about a week and just saw this thread so I havent read all the responses.
I personally think there is a line between Marijuana use and Marijuana abuse that gets crossed way too often. at least in our culture. There is no doubt in my mind that it is a very powerful herb that has a lot of positive possibiliies but its abuse only for inebriation and dulling of the senses is unfortuantely way too common.
In some cultures, particularly native cultures, it is administered as a sacred herb by elders and medicine men, who guide users into understanding how it works beneficially. Most of us have received no such instruction--at least i know that i havent-- so mostly it remains a mystery to me.
I believe it has the capability to open windows of awareness and doors of perception that are generally closed out by everyday stresses, and can in the right circumstances enhance creativity, (American jazz famously developed and took leaps forward from 'reefer'
Native shamans, and medicine men go further and write of it as a tool to experince visions, dreams, insights, spirit travel
I have nothing against it, but if (big if-for me it is extremely rare) I partake I am very careful--no pressing business to tend to of any great importance for at least a day, no driving--things like that. I realize that it is a very powerful herb
But I have to say I do enjoy it when it does happen-usually only a toke and the colors get brighter and crisper, music and sounds get infinitely more interesting, ideas, concepts and sensations that have been hiding in the shadows come to the foreground.
Stress relief is near immediate.
I now know (as opposed to when I was much younger) know when to stop, and still then make it a very rare and special thing.
I think it should be studied. There is doubt in my mind that it has immense power but so far, at least in our culture, it seems it has never really been understaood and rarely used in what could be very beneficial ways.
Older cultures that have had it for 1000's of years seem to have somewhat of a better grasp on its use and benefits--we could learn alot from them
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sirguessalot
not to be a buzzkiller, but i must say i strongly agree with mstar's points
...especially as it pertains to kids
and yeah, people have died from smoking too much pot...either from lung cancer...or just being mindless while doing dangerous things
you guys might find this article on Entheogens interesting/useful
especially this part:
and yeah...i am a freak...in that alongside all my other studies in states and stages of consciousness (including altered)...i have spent a bit of time looking into the history of drugs and rites of passage
...gawd...somebody shoot me (or pm me if interested)
the topic sure would be another interesting gsc podcast experiment..hehe
btw...Dr Stan Grof (whom i have met) and Dr Andrew Weil have both done extensive research into the subject
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Ham
I dunno.. I think..
The real trick is to be able to alter one's own perceptions without the drugs.. maybe I should rephrase it..
some of the most profound, spiritual, "mind blowing" experiences I have had have been stone, cold sober..
:)
look into another soul if they will let you..
only the bold and fearless may apply..
you'll lose, and you'll win..
:)
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templelady
Legalize it, regulate production, and prices, and age limits that can purchase it. Ditto all other recreational drugs, gambling and prostitution.
It is not the job of government to regulate morality or one groups idea of morality--it is the job of government to protect its citizens.
Better drugs that are quality controlled in their making, better prostitutes that are having regular medical screening with lists of clients if something shows up, better legalized gambling instead of after-hours houses where drugs and prostitutes also operate freely.
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tonto
Well, it's been 33 years since I inhaled and initially it was a blast, but I don't miss the paranoia or the forgetfulness that came along after the fun. Good grief...I've always had a hard time keeping my train of thought and I wonder if my high times didn't contribute to my scatterbrain-edness now.
This is going to sound snotty but here goes...it's one thing to smoke when you're college-age, but the image I get of someone who continues the habit into their 40's and beyond is...well...rusty cars in the front yard...mullet hair cut...lack of ambition.
To paraphrase Neil Young...I've seen the weed-le and the damage done.
And hey Mo...I agree it should be legal.
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HAPe4me
I fail to see the thrill in "altered states" of mind, whether from alcohol or from herbal concoctions. I am quite happy with my wit, artistic perceptions, and general well being, without the need to create something that is temporary by drinking, smoking or otherwise ingesting more garbage into my body than that which is all too present in our everyday meals and environment.
Its just my opinion, but aside from the "claimed" pain relief for those who are unable to find such relief fromother sources, I do not see any benefits especially for otherwise well adjusted adults.
~HAP
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GrouchoMarxJr
Holy zig zags Batman!...If they're paying THAT much, they ARE losers...
In Texas a quarter ounce costs $20 dollars and in Ohio a quarter ounce costs $40...at least that's what I've been told. 
Personally, I think that when the consequences of getting caught with it are more harmful to a person than the actual substance is...there is something terribly wrong.
Oh yeah...according to recent studies, people who smoke pot have no worse "short term memory loss" than people who do not smoke it...(except of course, when they are under the influence of it)...
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waysider
I think it should be legal, also.
Not because I advocate its use, which I don't, but because there needs to be some consistency in the legal aspects of sale, use and production methods. Much like the consistency that was introduced to the use,etc. of alcohol that fell into place after prohibition.
Plus, think of how much profit the government is missing by not sharing a piece of the pie.
As one poster pointed out earlier, this ain't the same stuff we remember from the 60s and 70s.
This is pot on steroids,so to speak, that is circulating in the current market place.
There is also a physical aspect that has nothing to do with ethics or law.
That aspect is the fact that human lungs just don't seem to like super heated, toxic gases.
I used to know a guy who, through heavy usage, developed emphysema.
Now that's a REAL bummer.
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J0nny Ling0
Well, up here in Alaska, our 49th state, everything costs more. Way more. For, most everything is shipped here by ocean going barge or container ship. Of course, some smart arse mentioned in an earlier thread that "Alaskans are rich" because of our oil, which is way not true. I am paying $3.55 a gallon for gas, for instance. Refineries are not aloud to be built in the US as you probably know. Not "environmentally friendly". But yeah, a quarter OZ will cost you, Groucho, $125.00 to $150.00 a quarter Oz. But, no problem no doubt, because you druggies will always come up with "whatever it costs" to support your drug habit, like they do here...
The trade off when it comes to the high cost of living here is that we get to live in/on The Last Frontier where whales breach, eagles sit on lamp posts (as well as soar over the mountaintops and swoop down and catch salmon), and glaciers calve, and bears wander the neighborhoods along with the moose. And all of that with a total population of only 650,000 people over an area that is two and a half times the size of little old Texas. And how many millions (including illegal aliens) live down there? Yep, even you druggies have it pretty good up here, even though your weed costs more. You ought to come up and purchase some Matanuska Thunder F_ck...
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