I think when i do not know what to do, when I feel like i cant handle the situations im in prayer gives me someone to trust in being able to handle it.
not just over whelming situations every day situations.
people, i pray for my enemys. alot.
loved ones, relationships. to get the bills paid most all of life. my car my house all of it.
i do not believe i can hang on to life without prayer.
I never pray. Not that I think it hurts, or that it never works, but that I don't see any difference between the people who do and the people who don't. The rain falls on the just and the unjust and the prayer-full and the prayer-less.
I also wondered what I would do when things "went south". I had some surgery last year that could've gone badly; I was never even tempted to pray: everything went fine. I also was in a car accident where if the impact was a few inches farther back I could have been killed or seriously injured. No prayer. Not a scratch.
If other people pray, that's fine for them, I hope it works out well for them.
I gave up praying several years ago. I used to pray quite often. Every morning, whenever some big event was unfolding in my life, whenever I was stressed, whenever I was unsure of things. Prayed all the time.
Nothing much ever came of all that prayer, near as I can tell. Maybe I just wasn't doing it right, I dunno.
But since then, no prayer, and life goes on pretty much like it always did. Somedays are great, some are awful, and there's a whole bunch somewhere in between.
So if prayer is all that powerful and earthshaking and mountain moving like we've always said, why is it that I can't measure it's effects with a gieger counter? Or even a micrometer? You'd think if I was utilizing a tremendous tool of Godly import that 1. I'd have noticed some kind of changes by doing it everyday, and 2. I would have noticed some sort of dropoff of good stuff in my life after I quit.
But, no. Life just goes on. Draw your own conclusions...
I don't pray as in supplication or beseaching for anything. I meditate and tap into what I perceive is my diety...I don't ask for stuff so much as ponder a situation. I do look for lessons and insight, paths of action.
I'm sure but, Bramble can you talk a little bit more about what you perceive as your "deity"? I'm getting the sense (from reading your response) that you really don't need any deity. I've conversed with many atheists which do as exactly as you without the need to add a deity to their lives.
Whether or not there is a "deity" in one's life or not is not your call. What you cannot perceive or hear does not make it not so.
If you determine that one's prayer or lack thereof according to your own decision about what prayer is an indication of the presence or non-presence of a deity in one's life, you have seriously misjudged that person and the powers you do not see or perceive.
I'm sure but, Bramble can you talk a little bit more about what you perceive as your "deity"? I'm getting the sense (from reading your response) that you really don't need any deity. I've conversed with many atheists which do as exactly as you without the need to add a deity to their lives.
Well, think whatever you want Larry. I'm getting the sense you think there is something wrong with someone who is an athiest or non Christian.
I personally don't think athiests are bad because they are athiests. If someone doesn't perceive diety that is what they perceive and why would it be wrong? Should they fake it?
And since I consider my relationship with diety --who I am not going to name out of respect for her, on a forum like this--to be something special, personal and sacred, I don't see any point in dragging her onto this forum. I'm not trying to win converts. I just posted about prayer in my life.
Well, think whatever you want Larry. I'm getting the sense you think there is something wrong with someone who is an athiest or non Christian.
I personally don't think athiests are bad because they are athiests. If someone doesn't perceive diety that is what they perceive and why would it be wrong? Should they fake it?
And since I consider my relationship with diety --who I am not going to name out of respect for her, on a forum like this--to be something special, personal and sacred, I don't see any point in dragging her onto this forum. I'm not trying to win converts. I just posted about prayer in my life.
Bramble when I first read your response I couldn't help scratching my head wondering what I said to set you off. I'm still scratching my head (and I'll probably do so until my hair falls out). So, rather than respond to what I think you've possibly misunderstood I'll simply apologize for causing you to be offended.
They say "curiosity killed the cat." Fortunately, I think I have a few lives left of the nine. :)
I pray every day but not confined to once in the morning with a lift list like twi taught. Rather when I feel something on my heart that needs attending to at which time I still speak in tongues and pray in my mind for God's intervention should there be someone in need. I do pray for my food before eating it though because I no longer trust the sources that are suppose to make sure it's safe for consumption.
We were taught that while we were at the ROA we could expect the country to worsen because the light was taken from their areas which was concentrated at HQ. I never bought that line of thinking because I never bought that twi was the chosen and only ones. I knew I had family that were linked to God in ways I still didn't understand and they were only a handful of folks that believed in God and received results so that taking the light away from our areas while gone was silly to me.
But I do believe that the ones that don't believe in God or prayer anymore have to be demonstrating godly principals in their lives even if they would fight me on agreeing they were godly and that is why they receive the rain. And I also believe the prayers of a few aids in keeping a hedge about us.
All IMHO of course but I can back up things with the bible and it mean nothing to the ones that don't hold it as authoritative so why take the time to do so.
But I do believe that the ones that don't believe in God or prayer anymore have to be demonstrating godly principals in their lives even if they would fight me on agreeing they were godly and that is why they receive the rain. And I also believe the prayers of a few aids in keeping a hedge about us.
Interesting take on the rain falling on the "unjust".
While not speaking for my non-Christian brethren, I would not disagree that certain principles and behaviors exhibited by those who don't believe are "godly", just that they are not exclusively so. The same actions can be described as godly by a god believer, and described otherwise by a disbeliever in a god.
But I can see why, from your point of view, you hold the position that you do. It's a way of making apparently contradictory things fit together. We all do it. You find a way to explain why there seems to be no difference in the lives of those who pray and those who don't, while I might find a way to explain why an apparently miraculous event takes place.
Of course, the difference is that I'm right ;) [Oakspear ducks to avoid heavy object thrown his way]
All IMHO of course but I can back up things with the bible and it mean nothing to the ones that don't hold it as authoritative so why take the time to do so.
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pond
I pray every day.
I think when i do not know what to do, when I feel like i cant handle the situations im in prayer gives me someone to trust in being able to handle it.
not just over whelming situations every day situations.
people, i pray for my enemys. alot.
loved ones, relationships. to get the bills paid most all of life. my car my house all of it.
i do not believe i can hang on to life without prayer.
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Danny
Pond
Cool thanks.
Some times I wonder if God is just a fireman for some.
I have a friend who claims not to believe in God but when thing go south
he seems to pray more than anyone I know. He had surgery and was scared
you would of thought he was a regular church goer.
Praying for enemies well that is a novel taught. Psalms Proverbs or the Gospels?
That is a cool deal.
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Oakspear
I never pray. Not that I think it hurts, or that it never works, but that I don't see any difference between the people who do and the people who don't. The rain falls on the just and the unjust and the prayer-full and the prayer-less.
I also wondered what I would do when things "went south". I had some surgery last year that could've gone badly; I was never even tempted to pray: everything went fine. I also was in a car accident where if the impact was a few inches farther back I could have been killed or seriously injured. No prayer. Not a scratch.
If other people pray, that's fine for them, I hope it works out well for them.
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pond
mathew 5:44
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George Aar
I gave up praying several years ago. I used to pray quite often. Every morning, whenever some big event was unfolding in my life, whenever I was stressed, whenever I was unsure of things. Prayed all the time.
Nothing much ever came of all that prayer, near as I can tell. Maybe I just wasn't doing it right, I dunno.
But since then, no prayer, and life goes on pretty much like it always did. Somedays are great, some are awful, and there's a whole bunch somewhere in between.
So if prayer is all that powerful and earthshaking and mountain moving like we've always said, why is it that I can't measure it's effects with a gieger counter? Or even a micrometer? You'd think if I was utilizing a tremendous tool of Godly import that 1. I'd have noticed some kind of changes by doing it everyday, and 2. I would have noticed some sort of dropoff of good stuff in my life after I quit.
But, no. Life just goes on. Draw your own conclusions...
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Danny
Thanks for the replies.
Good verse.
So we stand at 50/50.
2 that pray 2 that used to.
I will stick to the praying side.
I understand from a logic point if no results or
wrong results stop try something different.
Jesus praying for this cup to pass.
Abraham 100 years old.
Not that I'm going to have all the answers or any answers
I believe in prayer and promote it.
I also have a strong belief that twi did not have the market on prayer.
Nor do I believe any group has or person.
I know what has worked in my life and all that has built my belief system.
In one of the book I read a letter to the author one of the line reads
"I don't have to manage life on my own. God can help keep my heart
from jumping out my throat"
That works for me.
How about the Serenity Prayer
God Grant Me the Serenity to Accept
The things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And Wisdom to tell the difference.
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Larry N Moore
Interesting topic. I wonder -- How does someone, who believes in God, communicate with Him if they do not pray?
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Bramble
I don't pray as in supplication or beseaching for anything. I meditate and tap into what I perceive is my diety...I don't ask for stuff so much as ponder a situation. I do look for lessons and insight, paths of action.
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Larry N Moore
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penguin
I meant to comment yesterday. I still pray--I actually pray more and with a greater depth than when in twi. I don't demand things anymore though.
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cman
Whether or not there is a "deity" in one's life or not is not your call. What you cannot perceive or hear does not make it not so.
If you determine that one's prayer or lack thereof according to your own decision about what prayer is an indication of the presence or non-presence of a deity in one's life, you have seriously misjudged that person and the powers you do not see or perceive.
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Bramble
Well, think whatever you want Larry. I'm getting the sense you think there is something wrong with someone who is an athiest or non Christian.
I personally don't think athiests are bad because they are athiests. If someone doesn't perceive diety that is what they perceive and why would it be wrong? Should they fake it?
And since I consider my relationship with diety --who I am not going to name out of respect for her, on a forum like this--to be something special, personal and sacred, I don't see any point in dragging her onto this forum. I'm not trying to win converts. I just posted about prayer in my life.
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Danny
If we can I would like to have a topic on prayer.
If you would like you can go to new topic and start another that would be fine.
Thanks
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cman
Danny,
I'm quite sure the last two posts were on topic.
Prayer to one person can be totally different then prayer to another.
Both right, neither negate the other.
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Larry N Moore
Bramble when I first read your response I couldn't help scratching my head wondering what I said to set you off. I'm still scratching my head (and I'll probably do so until my hair falls out). So, rather than respond to what I think you've possibly misunderstood I'll simply apologize for causing you to be offended.
They say "curiosity killed the cat." Fortunately, I think I have a few lives left of the nine. :)
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Danny
Cman
Thanks for the replies.
Being I started this tread I think I can decide which subject matter
I would want to add in or not.
Let say someone wants to pray to a frog.
I don't want that subject here.
They are welcome to open a tread labeled Praying to a frog.
Yes I have limits to what I think is right and wrong.
Again thanks.
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cman
Te subject is prayer by the title, this is what is being discussed
Perhaps you missed what was said.
Or is it only your idea of prayer that is acceptable to you on this thread?
There many kinds of prayer, not just what you may think.
Are you limiting this thread to your idea of prayer?
If so what is it?
Larry N. Moore is not saying what he really thinks.
But is attempting to turn the conversation into his hands.
Just to shut some mouths that he don't want to hear.
I''ll reserve the right to comment as I see fit and my comment was on topic.
A limited understanding of prayer yields a limited hearing of what is said about it.
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Larry N Moore
Hmm . . . interesting. You wouldn't be attempting to shut me up, now would ya? :)
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cman
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ChattyKathy
I pray every day but not confined to once in the morning with a lift list like twi taught. Rather when I feel something on my heart that needs attending to at which time I still speak in tongues and pray in my mind for God's intervention should there be someone in need. I do pray for my food before eating it though because I no longer trust the sources that are suppose to make sure it's safe for consumption.
We were taught that while we were at the ROA we could expect the country to worsen because the light was taken from their areas which was concentrated at HQ. I never bought that line of thinking because I never bought that twi was the chosen and only ones. I knew I had family that were linked to God in ways I still didn't understand and they were only a handful of folks that believed in God and received results so that taking the light away from our areas while gone was silly to me.
But I do believe that the ones that don't believe in God or prayer anymore have to be demonstrating godly principals in their lives even if they would fight me on agreeing they were godly and that is why they receive the rain. And I also believe the prayers of a few aids in keeping a hedge about us.
All IMHO of course but I can back up things with the bible and it mean nothing to the ones that don't hold it as authoritative so why take the time to do so.
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Oakspear
While not speaking for my non-Christian brethren, I would not disagree that certain principles and behaviors exhibited by those who don't believe are "godly", just that they are not exclusively so. The same actions can be described as godly by a god believer, and described otherwise by a disbeliever in a god.
But I can see why, from your point of view, you hold the position that you do. It's a way of making apparently contradictory things fit together. We all do it. You find a way to explain why there seems to be no difference in the lives of those who pray and those who don't, while I might find a way to explain why an apparently miraculous event takes place.
Of course, the difference is that I'm right ;) [Oakspear ducks to avoid heavy object thrown his way]
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ChattyKathy
I simply love your honesty with me Oak. It feels so good to engage in conversations about subjects that I use to be such a horsesbutt regarding. ;)
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Danny
Thanks for the replies.
I don't think I will make a list per say of my beliefs.
I do believe the Is a One True God.
I do not believe in praying to other Gods.
Larry You are free to speak of what you want. I was trying to keep
this tread on track about Prayer.
Cman let me ask do believe in a right and a wrong?
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cman
Ultimately wrong is based in right
and lies in truth
digging deep enough or letting it untangle itself
truth emerges in many ways,
fighting for one way will only make enemies
which we are to love
do we fight that which we love?
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