The statue was gone the last time I was at the auditorium... but VP's lifesize atrocity was there in the lobby for all to see. I think the Timothy statue was moved to Gunnison to be an inspiration to the Corpse or something.
The statue was gone the last time I was at the auditorium... but VP's lifesize atrocity was there in the lobby for all to see. I think the Timothy statue was moved to Gunnison to be an inspiration to the Corpse or something.
I know the Timothy head is in the Founder's Room closet. Was their a statue also?
Alas, the poor Timothy that modeled for that statue was deformed. I worked in Photography in-res and I remember the guy who was scalping it coming down amd pouring over pics of craiggers teaching, trying to find one dynamic enough to "touch hearts". Poor Tim ended up with one leg shorter than the other, and a torso that was out of proportions. The way I saw him he never should have survived childbirth. There wasn't too much fanfare when he was unwrapped. Maybe others saw the medical problems Timmy had and were worried about who was going to have to lay hands on him and later defend the lawsuit.
Well, I'm no expert on anatomy, but I thought the Timothy statue was beautiful... I would hate to think of it stuffed in storage somewhere! Was it Dan Goheen that carved it? That name just popped into my head but I don't know if that's right. Somewhere I have a picture of him, and the statue.
I don’t mean the statue, but the much more important man addressed twice by Paul.
For years I reasoned that Timothy was excepted from the “all” that had forsaken Paul. But if that were the case why his conspicuous absence from all recorded history?
It slowly dawned on me, from several sources, that he too had forsaken Paul, albeit not so much in the senses category, but spiritually. For one, his total lack of splash in church and secular history speaks of his lack of power and/or early death.
But it wasn’t until I looked VERY closely at the POP that I realized that we have an analogous character in modern history that closely resembles Timothy in Chris Geer. In the POP Geer dutifully (in the senses category) reports his own indictment (spiritually) in his exact quotation of Dr’s near final words to him. Also, Dr’s very last words in his very last recorded teaching seem to handle Geer in a very Judas-like mold, i.e., one who is smart and dutiful with the outward details but totally corrupt within.
If you folks can be so happy with a statue’s derailment of this thread’s most important opening sentences, who can object with my similar treatment of the waxen stature of Chris Geer?
But it wasn’t until I looked VERY closely at the POP that I realized that we have an analogous character in modern history that closely resembles Timothy in Chris Geer. In the POP Geer dutifully (in the senses category) reports his own indictment (spiritually) in his exact quotation of Dr’s near final words to him. Also, Dr’s very last words in his very last recorded teaching seem to handle Geer in a very Judas-like mold, i.e., one who is smart and dutiful with the outward details but totally corrupt within.
If you folks can be so happy with a statue’s derailment of this thread’s most important opening sentences, who can object with my similar treatment of the waxen stature of Chris Geer?
How can we be certain "Timmy" Geer reported any "exact quotations" of the dying Victor Paul?
The "POP" letter may be just as apocryphal as the "Pastorals".
In the same way the writer of the Pastorals tried to mimic Paul, Geer could have done the same
I always wondered what happened to that "Woman of God" statue that was at the Rock on display back in the late 70's or early 80's. (Come to think of it, it was a nude.)
What the Hey! I liked that statue, One night a few of us sat in the back forty with some beers and came up with a very short list of who was the model. The more we drank the more names were added to the list including DM and Ms Oens. it's amazing what 2 of those quart bottles can do
Alas, the poor Timothy that modeled for that statue was deformed. I worked in Photography in-res and I remember the guy who was scalping it coming down amd pouring over pics of craiggers teaching, trying to find one dynamic enough to "touch hearts". Poor Tim ended up with one leg shorter than the other, and a torso that was out of proportions. The way I saw him he never should have survived childbirth. There wasn't too much fanfare when he was unwrapped. Maybe others saw the medical problems Timmy had and were worried about who was going to have to lay hands on him and later defend the lawsuit.
I don’t mean the statue, but the much more important man addressed twice by Paul.
For years I reasoned that Timothy was excepted from the “all” that had forsaken Paul. But if that were the case why his conspicuous absence from all recorded history?
Timothy, despite what Wierwille and Martindale taught, isn't absent, conspicuously or otherwise from recorded history. Look him up in any Church encyclopedia, or for that matter Wikipedia, and you'll see references to him as a bishop in Ephesus.
The TWI party line was that Paul was the head of the church and Timothy was his successor, but it doesn't appear that way to me from a straight reading of the bible.
Long time no talk. I'm glad to see you pull this thread back on the more important rail.
I saw the Bishop of Ephesus references long ago, but they are mere tradition, and not possessing historical substance.
The Roman Catholics have a lot of that kind of tradition, AND they admit it.
Remember a few decades ago, when a whole boatload of "saints" were demoted to mere tradition status? The lack of substantial history on them was so overwhelming that the church historians finally got a Pope to "uncaononize" even some beloved saints. I think the most famous was St. Christopher, the patron saint of travelers and memorialized in medals that RC's would pin to the sun visors of their cars.
Timothy and his Ephesus bishopric fits in there, in the admittedly the non-substantiated tradition. There's no contemporary written record of him that has ever been discovered outside of the Biblical one, and then many, many years later someone with some power, or maybe an artist or sculptor, claimed he was the Bishop of Ephesus with no backup. Even the tradition lacks any detail as to what he supposedly did there. Timothy really vanished!
***
You wrote: "The TWI party line was that Paul was the head of the church and Timothy was his successor, but it doesn't appear that way to me from a straight reading of the bible."
Me neither. What I see is that Timothy should have been the successor, but he too forsook Paul (like Geer) and it all died. Enter: the RCs.
*******
TheInvisibleDan,
I was pleased to see your comment of five days ago, but held off responding for fear of the usual "Derailment Vigilantes" here who object to just about anything I say. I may respond soon to you.
Put that way Mike, most of the bible is non-historical.
One would not expect Timothy to have made a splash outside of church circles since Christianity was not yet "official" in the empire. I don't think any of the bishops of Rome were even noticed by secular sources until the 300's, maybe later.
Timothy's absence from secular history cannot be read into. It means nothing.
All of the apostles, including Paul "vanished" after their mention in the bible.
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JavaJane
The statue was gone the last time I was at the auditorium... but VP's lifesize atrocity was there in the lobby for all to see. I think the Timothy statue was moved to Gunnison to be an inspiration to the Corpse or something.
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Bolshevik
I know the Timothy head is in the Founder's Room closet. Was their a statue also?
Nevermind . . .
someone just told me . . .
(sorry)
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likeaneagle
It wasnt there in 99...
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Out There
Alas, the poor Timothy that modeled for that statue was deformed. I worked in Photography in-res and I remember the guy who was scalping it coming down amd pouring over pics of craiggers teaching, trying to find one dynamic enough to "touch hearts". Poor Tim ended up with one leg shorter than the other, and a torso that was out of proportions. The way I saw him he never should have survived childbirth. There wasn't too much fanfare when he was unwrapped. Maybe others saw the medical problems Timmy had and were worried about who was going to have to lay hands on him and later defend the lawsuit.
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TheHighWay
Well, I'm no expert on anatomy, but I thought the Timothy statue was beautiful... I would hate to think of it stuffed in storage somewhere! Was it Dan Goheen that carved it? That name just popped into my head but I don't know if that's right. Somewhere I have a picture of him, and the statue.
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Ham
I kinda thought it looked like Michaelangelo's David.. more properly atired, of course..
They couldn't have a likeness of the loyster running amock with no clothes, could they?
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Belle
I thought it did, too, Ham.
In fact, I thought they had copied it and just put a different name on it to be appropriately "spiritual".
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Mike
I, too, have wondered about Timothy.
I don’t mean the statue, but the much more important man addressed twice by Paul.
For years I reasoned that Timothy was excepted from the “all” that had forsaken Paul. But if that were the case why his conspicuous absence from all recorded history?
It slowly dawned on me, from several sources, that he too had forsaken Paul, albeit not so much in the senses category, but spiritually. For one, his total lack of splash in church and secular history speaks of his lack of power and/or early death.
But it wasn’t until I looked VERY closely at the POP that I realized that we have an analogous character in modern history that closely resembles Timothy in Chris Geer. In the POP Geer dutifully (in the senses category) reports his own indictment (spiritually) in his exact quotation of Dr’s near final words to him. Also, Dr’s very last words in his very last recorded teaching seem to handle Geer in a very Judas-like mold, i.e., one who is smart and dutiful with the outward details but totally corrupt within.
If you folks can be so happy with a statue’s derailment of this thread’s most important opening sentences, who can object with my similar treatment of the waxen stature of Chris Geer?
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TheInvisibleDan
How can we be certain "Timmy" Geer reported any "exact quotations" of the dying Victor Paul?
The "POP" letter may be just as apocryphal as the "Pastorals".
In the same way the writer of the Pastorals tried to mimic Paul, Geer could have done the same
with Wierwille.
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Ham
Probably include Maggie Muggins, Snowball Pete and Henry Buloko in his little illustrations too.
Speaking of the "mantle".. where is it? I remember something said in an earlier thread, just can't remember..
Another thought..
Timothy. I wonder if after all of the hoopla was done after Paul passed away..
I wonder if he just didn't go get a life somewhere..
my conjecture is as good as anybody elses..
I wonder if the guy coming tomorrow really needs the daggone bridge..
vic didn't build a BRIDGE for "the next guy".. he built an ORGANIZATION.
"leave something standing at the harvest time of life.."
unfortunately it was an organization built on deceit.
I think there was a bridge for the next guy though.. the one that went to the "promised land of da prevailing verd"..
Too bad he fell off the thing into the "river Jordan" on the way over..
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shazdancer
:D
Shaz
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What The Hey
I always wondered what happened to that "Woman of God" statue that was at the Rock on display back in the late 70's or early 80's. (Come to think of it, it was a nude.)
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Ham
Makes perfect sense.. honestly, it wouldn't suprise me if it were stored in the motor coach..
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frank123lol
Timothy,Refering to the epistles,Maybe,Since what was left of the "faithful" did his thing,
then like the star spangled banner God leaves it as a question.or like the sopranos
you draw your own conclussion.
See after alot of thought "the missing century" was twi inspired junk,after all how did the"mystery"
continue? How then if it was lost that amazingly vp was the only one who found it,When his ministery was from Bg lenards?
The statue I have some old vey mags mayybe I will find it in one of them.I think it is.
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mstar1
In my way daze I had a cat named Timothy, he ran away and I got a new one who looked just like him-his name of course was Second Timothy
Im no church historian but there still seems to be a fairly active church in those parts of the world by my reckoning, no matter what Wierwille said
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Out There
What the Hey! I liked that statue, One night a few of us sat in the back forty with some beers and came up with a very short list of who was the model. The more we drank the more names were added to the list including DM and Ms Oens. it's amazing what 2 of those quart bottles can do
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Ham
Ah, the true source of all moggish "inspiration"..
All that, at even equal to or less than the "two drink limit"
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TheInvisibleDan
Thanx for your thoughts.
Danny
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Dot Matrix
ROTFL
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TheHighWay
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Oakspear
The TWI party line was that Paul was the head of the church and Timothy was his successor, but it doesn't appear that way to me from a straight reading of the bible.
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Mike
Hi Oak,
Long time no talk. I'm glad to see you pull this thread back on the more important rail.
I saw the Bishop of Ephesus references long ago, but they are mere tradition, and not possessing historical substance.
The Roman Catholics have a lot of that kind of tradition, AND they admit it.
Remember a few decades ago, when a whole boatload of "saints" were demoted to mere tradition status? The lack of substantial history on them was so overwhelming that the church historians finally got a Pope to "uncaononize" even some beloved saints. I think the most famous was St. Christopher, the patron saint of travelers and memorialized in medals that RC's would pin to the sun visors of their cars.
Timothy and his Ephesus bishopric fits in there, in the admittedly the non-substantiated tradition. There's no contemporary written record of him that has ever been discovered outside of the Biblical one, and then many, many years later someone with some power, or maybe an artist or sculptor, claimed he was the Bishop of Ephesus with no backup. Even the tradition lacks any detail as to what he supposedly did there. Timothy really vanished!
***
You wrote: "The TWI party line was that Paul was the head of the church and Timothy was his successor, but it doesn't appear that way to me from a straight reading of the bible."
Me neither. What I see is that Timothy should have been the successor, but he too forsook Paul (like Geer) and it all died. Enter: the RCs.
*******
TheInvisibleDan,
I was pleased to see your comment of five days ago, but held off responding for fear of the usual "Derailment Vigilantes" here who object to just about anything I say. I may respond soon to you.
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Oakspear
Put that way Mike, most of the bible is non-historical.
One would not expect Timothy to have made a splash outside of church circles since Christianity was not yet "official" in the empire. I don't think any of the bishops of Rome were even noticed by secular sources until the 300's, maybe later.
Timothy's absence from secular history cannot be read into. It means nothing.
All of the apostles, including Paul "vanished" after their mention in the bible.
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Mike
Yes, that's right.
Even Jesus is almost totally absent from history.
...so much for history!
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