You went to you name calling mode trying to stifle the subject. That is like protecting him ... my opinion, yes I do have a right to that.
His abuse of power, and the consequences ... that is the point. That is the larger picture I am exploring. If you only want to dwell on his politics, that is up to you. I don't care what his politics are.
Yes, you have the right to LIE to others about what you claim I did/said... oh, wait, you REALLY do NOT.
"like protecting" is nonsense. I did NOT defend him. I called your poor judgement in question. In response to YOUR expression of interest in him, I called into question why anyone would care, since he had resigned his office the day before. THAT is NOT defending him. Instead, what occurred is that in order to divert attention away from your obvious lack of common sense, you attempted to shift reader attention to me, FALSELY claiming that I was defending him. THAT is a demonstration of YOUR inability to be HONEST about your own conduct.
You continue to demonstrate same.
And you're doing quite the tap dance trying to convince everyone that you're interest in Nifong's situation was NOT political.
That is COMPLETE bunk. If Nifong had gotten disbarred for something he did either in his private life (like commit a felony... rob a bank, domestic violence in his own home, bank fraud, arson or whatever...) THAT would NOT be about his politics.
This guy got in trouble for -- as YOU also indicated -- abuse of power. What role was he attempting to fulfill when he abused power?
Did he abuse power while he was acting in his role as a public official, in an office usually filled by an ELECTION? Can you answer NO to that? (Not truthfully).
Defend your stupidity all you want, but don't accuse me of something I didn't do... you have NO right to do so.
Have Dmiller...
I don't drink.
Its great to see a bad guy get it for once. Nifong was appointed to an elective office. He used the lacross players to pander to get get black vote and he barely won. Its not enought he was disbarred! He belongs in jail!
Nyunknown,
How can you say this... the great DISINGENUOUS says THIS is NOT a political thread. You sound like you don't agree with him on that point. And I don't blame you.
Speaking of which, has Sharpton, who as I recall was a staunch Nifong defender, said anything about this? Tawana Brawley deja vu?
Sharpton is an inciteful idiot. :)
O'REILLY: I don't want to try anybody, but there is enough evidence that has surfaced here. We have evidence that DNA doesn't match the kids. We have evidence that ABC News uncovered that there is a recording made by a security guard who looked at the victim after she said she was raped and said there was no problem and we have a police officer who found the victim drunk in a car in a 7-Eleven who phoned it in before she went to the hospital. So when you have three elements like that, I say there is reasonable doubt right now. You know what the grand jury proceeding is.
SHARPTON: Absolutely.
O'REILLY: It's a one-sided proceeding.
SHARPTON: But I think that all of the facts that you have laid out the DA had — and I know this DA is probably not one that is crazy. He would not have proceeded if he did not feel that he could convict. So it tells me that all of what you said is either not true or he has convincing evidence that would certainly knock that out and no one is not letting him proceed. You know, a lot of those community leaders down there, pro and con, wanted a lot of people to come in. I know for a fact asked Jesse Jackson to come, we said we don't want to be (INAUDIBLE)...
yes yes yes, thanks dmiller, I believe I saw that interview, that's why I remembered that he defended the "victim" and the prosecution. At that time though I wasn't sure what to think myself though, it sure sounded like the Duke players were guilty. It's just given with Sharptons past in defending people like Tawana Brawley, I'm wondering if he is a big enough man to come out and give any public statement regarding the lacrosse players now.
yes yes yes, thanks dmiller, I believe I saw that interview, that's why I remembered that he defended the "victim" and the prosecution. At that time though I wasn't sure what to think myself though, it sure sounded like the Duke players were guilty. It's just given with Sharptons past in defending people like Tawana Brawley, I'm wondering if he is a big enough man to come out and give any public statement regarding the lacrosse players now.
"like protecting" is nonsense. I did NOT defend him. I called your poor judgement in question. In response to YOUR expression of interest in him, I called into question why anyone would care, since he had resigned his office the day before. THAT is NOT defending him. Instead, what occurred is that in order to divert attention away from your obvious lack of common sense, you attempted to shift reader attention to me, FALSELY claiming that I was defending him. THAT is a demonstration of YOUR inability to be HONEST about your own conduct.
btw, since Nifong resigned his elective office yesterday, why would ANYone even care about him anymore?
YAAAWWWWWWWNNNNN!!
Sure sounds like you're ready to *forgive and forget* to me.
While not outright *defending* him, you sure give a lot of lattitude to the man.
For what it's worth -- it doesn't matter (to me) whether he was an elected official or not.
He repressed (hid, did not bring forth, misrepresented evidence), and THAT transcends politics.
You can say what you want to about what you stated earlier,
but the fact remains -- this man engaged in criminal activity with 3 lives and reputations at stake.
Nifong (seems) to have taken the *easy way* out, by resigning.
He was a DA manipulating court proceedings. How does politics (as in political) enter into that??
I (for one) am glad that they (whomever THEY are), are going after him with a vengence,
intent on seeing he reaps what he has sown.
Perhaps it would be fitting for them to hand him a sword to fall on.
Otherwise -- I like Geo's suggestion about the oil.
P.S. --- I say this with all sincerity:
Sorry -- I didn't know you don't drink. Mea Culpa!
If I had an Iced Tea icon here, I'd offer you that instead. :)
Sure sounds like you're ready to *forgive and forget* to me.
While not outright *defending* him, you sure give a lot of lattitude to the man.
YOU are defending Mr. DISINGENUOUS.
Me, forgive? NO. Forget, YES. The man does not need to be in the public eye anymore.
Now, IF the "discussion" were to revolve around HOW to prevent this kind of political abuse of power... THEN there's something to discuss.
Until then, YOU are obviously just piling on (me). To which, I shrug and say, "so what?"
For what it's worth -- it doesn't matter (to me) whether he was an elected official or not.
He repressed (hid, did not bring forth, misrepresented evidence), and THAT transcends politics.
You can say what you want to about what you stated earlier,
but the fact remains -- this man engaged in criminal activity with 3 lives and reputations at stake.
Nifong (seems) to have taken the *easy way* out, by resigning.
He was a DA manipulating court proceedings. How does politics (as in political) enter into that??
I (for one) am glad that they (whomever THEY are), are going after him with a vengence,
intent on seeing he reaps what he has sown.
YOU answered your own question. He was an elected (after first being appointed to the ELECTIVE office) official abusing the authority of his office.
THAT *IS* politics.
So, he belongs in jail. That's a matter for either the North Carolina law enforcement/court officials and/or federal courts because of his apparent violations of federal civil rights laws.
However, THIS thread is ALL about POLITICS. No measure of denial on YOUR part (and mr DISINGENUOUS'S part) will change that.
Perhaps it would be fitting for them to hand him a sword to fall on.
Otherwise -- I like Geo's suggestion about the oil.
P.S. --- I say this with all sincerity:
Sorry -- I didn't know you don't drink. Mea Culpa!
If I had an Iced Tea icon here, I'd offer you that instead. :)
I also do NOT do caffeine. I would think you'd be GLAD for that! ;)
I kicked the caffeine habit close to two years ago.
And not drinking alcohol is simply a matter of no interest in it... I've NOT had a drinking problem before... so, no need to apologize for anything on that.
Garth, if you're going to get into someone else's argument, at least figure out what's going on, get a clue, and/or get your ducks in a row. ... DISINGENUOUS claims his thread about politician Nifong is NOT political. He LIED and YOU backed him up.
I do know what's going on (as I have read the thread), I do have a clue, and I do have my ducks in a row.
Ie., this thread is about Nifong the prosecuting attorney and his misdeeds in that office, ... not Nifong the politician. True, his office is an elected office, but when he is carrying out his duties (or misbehaving re: his duties thereof), it isn't in the context of him being a politician, it is in the context of him as an attorney. Yes, the two fields overlap, but they aren't identical.
However, THIS thread is ALL about POLITICS. No measure of denial on YOUR part (and mr DISINGENUOUS'S part) will change that.
No, you are making it all about politics. Calling an attorney (even a publically elected one) out on his misdeeds in his office/profession does not make it political, unless the participants make it political, particularly in using it for the next election. ... So far, I have yet to see any of that applied. When it does happen, _then_ it becomes political.
Ie,. the man f***ed up badly. He is having his a** hauled before the appropriate authorities and charged. He is being thrown out on his aforementioned a**. ... That's not politics, just accountability.
The reason I care about Mr. Nifong and his punishment, irregardless of the fact he resigned the day before punishment was pronounced, is because I have deep concerns aboput the way our judicial system operates.
Many of us here have other concerns regarding what is happening not only with Nifong, and a certain pantless judge, but in courtrooms across this country.
If a poster thinks a topic is nothing to be concerned about they can simply ignore that topic. What posters starting the threads think, mean and intend can only be learned from those posters since they is the only one, besides God, who knows what they are thinking. So if a poster who starts a topic tells me that they did not intend for that topic to be a political discussion I take them at their word.
knowing one of the boys and what happened to their family and lives, i can't say i'm sorry
edited to say my nephew knows the boy
and my boss is his neighbor
yeah and exie, this will follow them for the rest of their lives. Forever we will be able to google their names and find them in connection with this case.
the first gives a case by case profile of some agregious cases of prosecutorial misconduct, along with police, judges and expert witness who have also tried to circumvent the truth.
This last has an interesting way of starting an e-mail list to form an action group for people who want to change the laws regarding our judiciary system. I put it in just as an example of what a concerned citizenry might accomplish.
• David and Goliath talk notwithstanding, legal action is often a powerful dis-equalizer of the playing field, as
those who know how to work the system fleece the outsiders, the novices, the distracted and the trustful
.
• The other source of Mr. Pearson's power -- his ability to hold the threat of huge penalties over the Chungs' heads -- arises from consumer laws that encourage complainants to multiply the stated penalty for a single infraction by the whole universe of a business's clientele, or by all the days in the calendar, with no need to prove actual injury. This sort of mechanical damage-multiplication has been a key engine in shakedown scandals in California
It's nice to see that even the organized plaintiffs bar piously deplores Mr. Pearson's abuse of the law. It would be even nicer if they agreed to stop opposing reforms that would give the Chungs of the world a fighting chance the next time around.
It does seem these lawyers keep score with each other. Finding ways to mislead and lie without getting caught are just part of the "fun".
This is far more into current events than in political debate. It deals with criminal and civil behavior by a prosecutor. The man was soooo...guilty, obstructing justice, withholding crucial evidence, etc. Being disbarred is just too kind for a guy, who...YES, for political reasons, tried to destroy three Duke students' lives in order to gain votes.
But the political threads are more for political issues, such as Democrats vs. Republicans, abortion, war in Iraq, the economy, things such as this. Nifong affected everyone with what he did. Some like to make it political. It could be. But frankly, I doubt this belongs in the political threads.
Nifong does deserve criminal charges as well, and I still believe the one that filed the false charges, the woman in question, definitely deserves prosecution, though they have ruled that out. She had falsely charged several men with rape before and the police let that go. She was seen by her own friends performing sexual acts later that night before getting drunk and passing out. The ones accused could not be linked by DNA evidence and one could not be linked to the time or place of the alleged crime because he had an alibi...an ATM ticket and video at the bank showing he was there.
Lots of stuff left out by Nifong.
The guy would have been better of losing the election and keeping his right to practice law than what had happened.
Yes, the issue had a political motive to the entire thing, and the argument could be made that it belongs in the political forums. But the issue was far more a civil matter and public interest as a whole rather than political, IMHO.
The guy would have been better off losing the election and keeping his right to practice law than what had happened.
Sure, since he finally got caught, it seems obvious he went "too far". But as TL said "It is sad to realize that if Mr Nifong had first, not deliberately withheld evidence and second, confined his inflamatory remarks to within the courtroom, he would not have been held accountable for any of his actions."
It seems there are miscarriages of justice all the time, it is just a matter of what they can get away with. Apparently things are so bad, that Nifong figured he could get away with even these outrageous actions, and without a bevy of expensive lawyers, he may well have.
A comment that slipped out to me recently ... "it's not worth suing over". They were taking something, and decided they could get it because it would cost maybe $10,000 to sue to get it back. So in essence as long as they "stole" under that $10K amount, it would be too expensive to sue to get it back. And when they have to give it back, there is no penalty for stealing.
If Joe Sixpack is caught stealing $300 from a convenience store, he does time. If a lawyer and client steal $50,000, they may be disappointed at not getting away with it, but usually it seems they just have to give the money back.
Other times the "victim" is just too poor to hire lawyers, so they really get fleeced, and lawyers seem thrilled at what they get away with. And if there is embezzlement or fraud, there seems no interest in prosecution of those things ... they don't want to devour their own, so to speak.
Using unethical and even illegal tactics to gain advantage seems the norm. Hopefully the Nifong case will give others pause, but probably not.
Man talk about arrogance and condescension, you are the definition of both.. I stopped in to see whats up in greasespotville and found this thread to be filled with your usual BS. You come on as some smart guy but in reality your a mindless mouthpiece for your political party. Your the one that turns every thread topic into a political one. Your addiction to the far left political bloggers and fishwraps is obvious. My suggestion is to please change the liquid in your bong..it's not good to smoke from the same juice you had in there from the Woodstock days. If you do this immediately you may just get a good taste of reality instead of the Kool-aid induced neurosis your presently addicted to.
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Rocky
Yes, you have the right to LIE to others about what you claim I did/said... oh, wait, you REALLY do NOT.
"like protecting" is nonsense. I did NOT defend him. I called your poor judgement in question. In response to YOUR expression of interest in him, I called into question why anyone would care, since he had resigned his office the day before. THAT is NOT defending him. Instead, what occurred is that in order to divert attention away from your obvious lack of common sense, you attempted to shift reader attention to me, FALSELY claiming that I was defending him. THAT is a demonstration of YOUR inability to be HONEST about your own conduct.
You continue to demonstrate same.
And you're doing quite the tap dance trying to convince everyone that you're interest in Nifong's situation was NOT political.
That is COMPLETE bunk. If Nifong had gotten disbarred for something he did either in his private life (like commit a felony... rob a bank, domestic violence in his own home, bank fraud, arson or whatever...) THAT would NOT be about his politics.
This guy got in trouble for -- as YOU also indicated -- abuse of power. What role was he attempting to fulfill when he abused power?
Did he abuse power while he was acting in his role as a public official, in an office usually filled by an ELECTION? Can you answer NO to that? (Not truthfully).
Defend your stupidity all you want, but don't accuse me of something I didn't do... you have NO right to do so.
Have Dmiller...
I don't drink.
Nyunknown,
How can you say this... the great DISINGENUOUS says THIS is NOT a political thread. You sound like you don't agree with him on that point. And I don't blame you.
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dmiller
Sharpton is an inciteful idiot. :)
(from THIS SITE.
He heard the evidence mentioned, and dismissed it immediately because he *believed* in the DA.
Now that the DA is *getting his due*, you sure don't hear much from Sharpton
as the evidence is mounting, resignation tendered, etc.
Meebe he's (kinda) smart after all. Tucking in the tail, when it's time to run!
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RottieGrrrl
yes yes yes, thanks dmiller, I believe I saw that interview, that's why I remembered that he defended the "victim" and the prosecution. At that time though I wasn't sure what to think myself though, it sure sounded like the Duke players were guilty. It's just given with Sharptons past in defending people like Tawana Brawley, I'm wondering if he is a big enough man to come out and give any public statement regarding the lacrosse players now.
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Rocky
THAT would be a pleasant surprise.
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dmiller
YAAAWWWWWWWNNNNN!!
Sure sounds like you're ready to *forgive and forget* to me.
While not outright *defending* him, you sure give a lot of lattitude to the man.
For what it's worth -- it doesn't matter (to me) whether he was an elected official or not.
He repressed (hid, did not bring forth, misrepresented evidence), and THAT transcends politics.
You can say what you want to about what you stated earlier,
but the fact remains -- this man engaged in criminal activity with 3 lives and reputations at stake.
Nifong (seems) to have taken the *easy way* out, by resigning.
He was a DA manipulating court proceedings. How does politics (as in political) enter into that??
I (for one) am glad that they (whomever THEY are), are going after him with a vengence,
intent on seeing he reaps what he has sown.
Perhaps it would be fitting for them to hand him a sword to fall on.
Otherwise -- I like Geo's suggestion about the oil.
P.S. --- I say this with all sincerity:
Sorry -- I didn't know you don't drink. Mea Culpa!
If I had an Iced Tea icon here, I'd offer you that instead. :)
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Rocky
YOU are defending Mr. DISINGENUOUS.
Me, forgive? NO. Forget, YES. The man does not need to be in the public eye anymore.
Now, IF the "discussion" were to revolve around HOW to prevent this kind of political abuse of power... THEN there's something to discuss.
Until then, YOU are obviously just piling on (me). To which, I shrug and say, "so what?"
YOU answered your own question. He was an elected (after first being appointed to the ELECTIVE office) official abusing the authority of his office.
THAT *IS* politics.
So, he belongs in jail. That's a matter for either the North Carolina law enforcement/court officials and/or federal courts because of his apparent violations of federal civil rights laws.
However, THIS thread is ALL about POLITICS. No measure of denial on YOUR part (and mr DISINGENUOUS'S part) will change that.
I also do NOT do caffeine. I would think you'd be GLAD for that! ;)
I kicked the caffeine habit close to two years ago.
And not drinking alcohol is simply a matter of no interest in it... I've NOT had a drinking problem before... so, no need to apologize for anything on that.
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dmiller
It was a Celestial Seasonings Tea (with no caffeine), that I would have offered. :)
I'm defending a premise, not Rhino.
Say what you will.
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GarthP2000
Ie., this thread is about Nifong the prosecuting attorney and his misdeeds in that office, ... not Nifong the politician. True, his office is an elected office, but when he is carrying out his duties (or misbehaving re: his duties thereof), it isn't in the context of him being a politician, it is in the context of him as an attorney. Yes, the two fields overlap, but they aren't identical.
No, you are making it all about politics. Calling an attorney (even a publically elected one) out on his misdeeds in his office/profession does not make it political, unless the participants make it political, particularly in using it for the next election. ... So far, I have yet to see any of that applied. When it does happen, _then_ it becomes political.
Ie,. the man f***ed up badly. He is having his a** hauled before the appropriate authorities and charged. He is being thrown out on his aforementioned a**. ... That's not politics, just accountability.
See?
Have another cold one.
;)
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templelady
The reason I care about Mr. Nifong and his punishment, irregardless of the fact he resigned the day before punishment was pronounced, is because I have deep concerns aboput the way our judicial system operates.
Many of us here have other concerns regarding what is happening not only with Nifong, and a certain pantless judge, but in courtrooms across this country.
If a poster thinks a topic is nothing to be concerned about they can simply ignore that topic. What posters starting the threads think, mean and intend can only be learned from those posters since they is the only one, besides God, who knows what they are thinking. So if a poster who starts a topic tells me that they did not intend for that topic to be a political discussion I take them at their word.
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excathedra
knowing one of the boys and what happened to their family and lives, i can't say i'm sorry
edited to say my nephew knows the boy
and my boss is his neighbor
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RottieGrrrl
yeah and exie, this will follow them for the rest of their lives. Forever we will be able to google their names and find them in connection with this case.
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templelady
Here are some links I found:
the first gives a case by case profile of some agregious cases of prosecutorial misconduct, along with police, judges and expert witness who have also tried to circumvent the truth.
http://www.truthinjustice.org/p-pmisconduct.htm
The second has a state by state breakdown of cases that were overturned by reason of police, DA or judicial "errors"
http://www.justiceworks.info/index.php?mod..._position=60:56
This last has an interesting way of starting an e-mail list to form an action group for people who want to change the laws regarding our judiciary system. I put it in just as an example of what a concerned citizenry might accomplish.
http://lawmall.com/abuse/
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RottieGrrrl
thanks for the links TempleLady (TL) I see the site has one of the sneering Nancy Grace's case there. "Weldon Wayne Carr"
I don't understand how that woman is still on the air.
As they say, she will not be satisfied until another one of her guests commits suicide.
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rhino
Thanks TL ... on that judge's pants suit ... I saw this article on overlawyered.com
(also appeared in The Wall Street Journal)
It does seem these lawyers keep score with each other. Finding ways to mislead and lie without getting caught are just part of the "fun".
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Eagle
This is far more into current events than in political debate. It deals with criminal and civil behavior by a prosecutor. The man was soooo...guilty, obstructing justice, withholding crucial evidence, etc. Being disbarred is just too kind for a guy, who...YES, for political reasons, tried to destroy three Duke students' lives in order to gain votes.
But the political threads are more for political issues, such as Democrats vs. Republicans, abortion, war in Iraq, the economy, things such as this. Nifong affected everyone with what he did. Some like to make it political. It could be. But frankly, I doubt this belongs in the political threads.
Nifong does deserve criminal charges as well, and I still believe the one that filed the false charges, the woman in question, definitely deserves prosecution, though they have ruled that out. She had falsely charged several men with rape before and the police let that go. She was seen by her own friends performing sexual acts later that night before getting drunk and passing out. The ones accused could not be linked by DNA evidence and one could not be linked to the time or place of the alleged crime because he had an alibi...an ATM ticket and video at the bank showing he was there.
Lots of stuff left out by Nifong.
The guy would have been better of losing the election and keeping his right to practice law than what had happened.
Yes, the issue had a political motive to the entire thing, and the argument could be made that it belongs in the political forums. But the issue was far more a civil matter and public interest as a whole rather than political, IMHO.
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rhino
Sure, since he finally got caught, it seems obvious he went "too far". But as TL said "It is sad to realize that if Mr Nifong had first, not deliberately withheld evidence and second, confined his inflamatory remarks to within the courtroom, he would not have been held accountable for any of his actions."
It seems there are miscarriages of justice all the time, it is just a matter of what they can get away with. Apparently things are so bad, that Nifong figured he could get away with even these outrageous actions, and without a bevy of expensive lawyers, he may well have.
A comment that slipped out to me recently ... "it's not worth suing over". They were taking something, and decided they could get it because it would cost maybe $10,000 to sue to get it back. So in essence as long as they "stole" under that $10K amount, it would be too expensive to sue to get it back. And when they have to give it back, there is no penalty for stealing.
If Joe Sixpack is caught stealing $300 from a convenience store, he does time. If a lawyer and client steal $50,000, they may be disappointed at not getting away with it, but usually it seems they just have to give the money back.
Other times the "victim" is just too poor to hire lawyers, so they really get fleeced, and lawyers seem thrilled at what they get away with. And if there is embezzlement or fraud, there seems no interest in prosecution of those things ... they don't want to devour their own, so to speak.
Using unethical and even illegal tactics to gain advantage seems the norm. Hopefully the Nifong case will give others pause, but probably not.
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Hills Bro
Rocky R Pebbles,
Man talk about arrogance and condescension, you are the definition of both.. I stopped in to see whats up in greasespotville and found this thread to be filled with your usual BS. You come on as some smart guy but in reality your a mindless mouthpiece for your political party. Your the one that turns every thread topic into a political one. Your addiction to the far left political bloggers and fishwraps is obvious. My suggestion is to please change the liquid in your bong..it's not good to smoke from the same juice you had in there from the Woodstock days. If you do this immediately you may just get a good taste of reality instead of the Kool-aid induced neurosis your presently addicted to.
have a nice day
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