You guys are the best! You bring meaning and direction even when I myself, socks, have trouble finding it.
johnj, my apologies for derailing this thread somewhat in what may appear like a cheap grab for attention and some free marketing mileage for my new(est) endeavor, the Butt Socks, but since excatiski stumbled so innocently on it I sensed destiny blowing my way. In hindsight I'd still have to say though, it seemed the right thing to do. This is no doubt due to the fact that I'm not only the inventor of the Butt Sock, I am also a user! Improved hindsight is just one of the many benefits regular wearing produces.
Sorry, I'll say no more. Hilton's people are on the line and if she got wind that I've blown the cover on this - well, I think she's suffered enough. But I can say that the B.S. itself will be available to GS'ers in various sizes and colors, at a drastically reduced price -
NO! Wait! Make that - absolutely free! and at no cost to anyone, ever! In fact, B.S. will be offered ONE TIME ONLY in a special franchise arrangement to the first 100 respondents!!! Think of it - your own opportunity to carve out of a piece of the American Dream...and with a product that actually HELPS PEOPLE!!!
All of this and more will available soon for a minimal Setup and Geo-Fee of 3,999.00 US, a small amount really when you consider all that you're going to get and I, socks, guarantee that you're really going to get it once you get online with this new B.S. !!! Not to worry, there's no charge for the product itself, as I intend to keep money out of this.
If you're tired of working for someone else, seeing bills pile up, and hearing the same old stuff over and over STOP HERE and mark your calendars!!!! Help is on the way! As a Certified Seller of B.S. you will be able to offer this incredible new product, in a package that sells itself. The Butt Sock is so good it makes good look bad. And at this price there's no reason everyone can't be a C.S. for B.S. !!!! It's almost too good, really. I'm surprised I'm doing it, but it's the least that I, socks, can do and doing the least I can is what life is all about isn't it?
Speaking of this thread, I don't know where Chis Geer is. I wanted to make a contribution before I get back to this important work I've undertaken (but it's happy work, really).
Well if it’s still the same Chris Geer I knew, he’s doing everything he can to love God with all his heart, soul, mind and strength. He’s doing everything he can to love and help people. That’s the Chris Geer I saw at Gartmore House in 1994 and 1995.
“What makes us think we’re so qualified to counsel people?”
Remember, I told you that was the question posed by Chris in the lunchroom at Gartmore House in 1995? To me, that was some incredible delivering stuff. He then went on to speak of how extensive training and knowledge was required and how much time might be required and so forth… That was something I never had heard back in the states. I had never heard someone from the previous ministry say that. And although Chris didn’t say it – to me it meant that at times it was right on to get these people to a real certified professional counselor or psychiatrist or whatever was required to get them some real help.
You see, there are people that have personality disorders that really cause them problems their whole lives unless they get them fixed. These people can cause problems for everyone around them as well. They can literally destroy a church. The problem can just be a flesh problem. Most of the times it is not a spiritual problem, it is a personality disorder of the flesh.
You start trying to cast out a devil spirit that’s not even in them then and you’re just going to make the situation worse.
These people need real professional help. I guarantee you some arrogant incompetent redneck boob from OKC isn’t going to get the job done. It’s going to take a real pro to get those issues resolved.
For reference, I thought I would include a link to a website I found regarding these personality disorders. Read it and you will see what I mean. I’ve seen people that had these personality disorders – I confused it with spirit – and guess what, I did not help the situation. Things got worse. I’m serious look at it. It may really open your eyes.
Here’s the linkèhttp://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/attent.htm
Now I thought I would consider John Judas recommendations to return to a real denomination as a solution to help ourselves and other folks.
I may not like his Crap Crap article but maybe he still had some really good advice. Heck why not. So I opened up them phone book. Man there must thousands of churches in Tulsa County I can go to. So I thought I would take the wife down to the latest greatest Pentecostal Holiness church down on 11th street. But then I remembered, I’d been there before – They all speak in tongues out loud at the same time without any interpretation, That’s right they roll around in the floors and aisles’ they’re singing and dancing in the “spirit” and people are getting slain in the spirit right and left all in the name of Jesus. They’re fallin’ all over the place.
So I thought, I think we’d be better off going to a different denom.
Hey why not go to the oldest one known. Yea, that’s the ticket. You know the one where you confess your sins to the man in the cube. And then the man in the cube says in auto responder type fashion – bless you son thy sins be forgive go in peace. You know the one where you learn to say the same prayer 50 times to a dead person.
On third thought, I think my wife and I will just have a simple fellowship at home and study and teach from the Bible ourselves. You know, really ask our Lord what he wants us to do. And try to love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength and our neighbors as ourself. Perhaps we’ll sing “Jesus is all the world to me” and pray and love each other without all that other CRAP CRAP.
On third thought, I think my wife and I will just have a simple fellowship at home and study and teach from the Bible ourselves. You know, really ask our Lord what he wants us to do. And try to love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength and our neighbors as ourself. Perhaps we’ll sing “Jesus is all the world to me” and pray and love each other without all that other CRAP CRAP.
God’s best to you,
Gregory A. Hill
North Tulsa County
Summer 2007
Greg -- Hey there. :)
Do yourself a favor, and get hold of Keith
(a poster here on this site from Bloomington, Indiana),
who is doing exactly the same thing.
Both you and he (imo) have much in common. He runs his own home fellowships as well.
I have his phone number somerwhere here, and if I find it, I'll PM it to you.
Having met him, I know he wouldn't mind talking to you. :)
Well, if it’s the man I knew a Gartmore House he’s doing all he can to love God with all his heart, soul, mind and strength. He’s doing all he can to love and help those around him. He’s getting up early every morning with God on his mind and he’s producing some of the finest work available today.
But could it be better?
When I look back at those wonderful times at Gartmore House I begin to realize that it was more than just Chris Geer. Chris was surrounded by some of the most committed hard working “women” believers I have ever known. They followed his example – perhaps some exceeded his example. When you’re surrounded by committed believers that really want to know God’s Word and carry out our Lord’s instruction, you know what’s going to happen – God will help their teacher produce what’s needed.
When I think back, I would call those women “spiritual giants” even though some were less than 5’ tall. They loved God so much they had no problem telling 6’5” big men where to get off. They’d walk right up to a big arrogant incompetent boob and reprove them with God’s Word and God’s Love. They were full of courage. No wonder there was so much deliverance going on. No wonder we were seeing so much.
These spiritual giants had names: Barbara, Helga, Renate, Cathy, Maria, Maura, Helen, Wendy, Nicky, Vickie, and perhaps others. They got me straightened out pretty quick. These wonderful women loved God and loved others. They put the work in buddy. They made Gartmore House rock and roll on God’s Word.
They made up the rank and file of the Lord’s Army at Gartmore House. They got things done right day after day, week after week, month after month and year after year. They handled that pressure bay.
I’ll shoot straight. Most men could never handle the physical and spiritual pressure that these kick foot soldiers did – Gartmore house would have been just a building without them.
Thank you - you women. Thanks for helping me.
After coming back to the states and taking WIGP class at different locales. I noticed the lack of female soldiers. For some reason it seems that when a woman gets married, they’re almost treated as second-class citizens. But in reality, I see many of these wives are harder working and sharper than their husbands. Why is it that so many men will not drop the ego and just admit it? I’ve read Ephesians and Timothy – I know what it says – but as far as I’m concerned half the body Christ is put down at marriage and I don’t think that we fully understand those scriptures.
Some of these class presenters are knuckleheads.
Frankly, some of the women would do a better job. The finest presenter of WIGP that I’ve met was a man named Mi*e N*vak. When I took classes that he presented they were just great. To me the difference between he and others was that he did not interject his personality or ego during the presentation. He did not embellish nor try to add his own twist to the class. He didn’t ask stupid questions at the end of the sessions. You got that Johnny T? MN just presented the material and enjoyed doing it. It was fun.
Why not just cut the crap and roll the tape?
I heard that MN stopped presenting and I’m not sure why? I suspect that a couple of arrogant incompetent boobs and an attention getting personality disorder were the cause?
I also heard one presenter once say “that he really wasn’t interested in learning anything new.” You know what’s going to happen to a man or woman who is no longer interested in learning anything new? THEY ARE NOT GOING TO LEARN ANYTHING NEW. Get a grip man. Seems to me that a good presenter should be highly interested in growing and learning more about God, His Word and the Things of God.
But, I’ve seen other things as well.
B*ian H*an*y is the finest teacher of God’s Word that I have seen since our return to the States. He teaches hot Bible. There’s one problem. Others don’t recognize it. I have seen him teach from the scriptures, accurately from the scriptures and then others stop him and say stupid stuff like “hey that’s not the way Chris.
Hey man Chris isn’t the Pope!
He’s still learning. Isn’t he? Some of those study guides are going to change I can almost guarantee it. You’ve got to teach what God wants you to teach no matter what anybody else says. Sometimes the words you speak will be different than the KJV or even the Study Guide and guess what we checked Br*an’s so called mistake – IT WAS RIGHT ON from the critical Greek texts and Papyri.
Where’s Chris Geer? If he’s doing what I saw at Gartmore House well I’ve told you what he’s doing.
But he did lose a lot of those wonderful woman - those spiritual giants.
i bet chris was screwing all of those female soldiers
he did mine
Can't figure out if you're speaking from personal experience or just plain jealousy. Or did you have an arrangement of swapping your female soldiers for his?
Hill, couple of points - "personality disorders" - interesting topic to this thread. Having met Chris in 1970 and known him off and on for about 15 years plus, I think he had a lot to overcome, from his youth to adulthood. It's difficult to really know what a person deals with inside, what pressures past and present guide and forge their development but I always thought Chris had a lot to deal with in that category. Even as a young man he was uncomfortable in casual social settings, quick to criticize and ostracize those around him, eager to regiment. Regimented activity often replaces natural interaction for people who feel vulnerable and at risk. They protect themselves by trying to control their environment, even the most mundane and trivial. Focusing on trivial activity and developing protocols for everything reduces the amount of thinking and rethinking if you will, that a person has to do.
So in one way it accounts for his behavior over the years, his approach to a Christian life. The Chris of the 80's was in over his head, to put it mildly. But that was a long time ago. What he's doing now, I have no idea but I do have a great deal of sympathy for his situation with Barbara and her health. Last I heard she was ill, and I would wish that on no one. I hope they've found a life together that gives them some peace and purpose.
This does relate to the topic of finding a church or place to fellowship with other Christians and to learn and contribute in. One of the things sorely needed is mature Christian pastoring, the consistent and loving partnership with others who will actively watch over the participants and look out for their interests, both as a community and as individuals.
This involves more than teaching, and in fact may not include teaching at times. It's a human, one-on-one participation in life, day to day, over time. Rather than interceding at specific points it's ongoing, where the relationhip is, at best, natural and in the flow of events as they occur.
That's a key ingredient to look for in a church and why, I think, many churches can be chosen from. It has less to do with what's spoken from the lectern and more to do with what's done.
It may be that Chris has come to some maturity in his life at this point, I'd hope so. "Classes" are of little interest to me, regardless of how they're presented. Of the people I've spoken to who take these classses, they seem nice enough but tend to be legalistic nit-pickers, keenly interested in criticizing what others do and teach. Not all of course. But that's where I think the pastoring element comes in.
Where you have loving men and women who put the others' interests first and genuinely seek to help others, it shows. Many churches offer that as a result of the time and training they require of their pastors before they're turned loose on a church. Ex-Way groups can have people who mean well, usually, but simply have never had or taken the time and effort to be trained that way. There's little breadth of learning or experience, so much of what's learned is self-generated with little particpation from others. This can easily allow a person to head off in a wrong direction with no one there to see or know, let along guide and help them.
Socks that was quite a good analysis you put forth there. If I may --- When you say: "Having met Chris in 1970 and known him off and on for about 15 years plus" --- In what capacity did you know Chris?
Can't figure out if you're speaking from personal experience or just plain jealousy. Or did you have an arrangement of swapping your female soldiers for his?
If he is still doing what I saw him doing with my own eyes at Gartmore House in 1994 and 1995, he is producing some incredible “eye opening” highest quality Biblical Teachings. He’s loving God first and foremost. He’s trying to help everyone around him as much as he can. He’s not wasting time or motion. He’s working from before dawn til late at night. And those near him are reaping the benefits if they are believing God’s Word.
I saw with my own eyes a man under the most extreme pressure still continue to love God, teach His Word and do the best he could to help those around him. It was one of the greatest examples of Christ-in service I have witnessed in the world today. I saw things and heard things that normally we only read about in the Bible.
Not once did he raise his voice.
He seemed always on the look out for ways to help those around him. Personally, he was gentle, kind, very patient and very, very helpful. He didn’t just talk either – he expended energy in motion. He and those with him worked their butts off. They carried others like me on their backs until we could start walking on our own.
One thing I have learned is that no matter how much one gives and works and loves – most people seem to always under appreciate it. People always seem to want more and more and they can be very critical and even cruel to those that are doing their best to really serve the Lord Jesus Christ as God would have them to do.
It’s been said before - sometimes the greatest things in our lives are never fully appreciated until they are gone missing.
No matter what happened at Gartmore Hose, no matter what happens to Chris. Our Lord has a name – Jesus. Jesus Christ is our Lord.
And no matter what Dr. John Judeus wants to print. To attack a minister of Jesus Christ just hurts the body of Christ. If he thinks denominations are the answer, then I’ll remind him – True Christianity never started as a denomination. It was at first labeled by the world as a cult.
If I were the devil fighting against the Lord Jesus Christ – I think that one of the first things I would do is build a denomination with men in cubes and auto responder messages pre queued. I would build in it a religious hierarchy of arrogant incompetent boobs with hundreds of rules and regulations. And I would do all I could to put the traditions of men above the Word of God as it was originally given. I would make as many people as possible become dependent on these incompetent blind guides. I would build extravagant seminaries to widen the snare. I would make it almost impossible for people to ever really study the Word of God for themselves. I’d do everything possible to keep them from truly knowing Christ.
And I wouldn’t just stop at one denomination either – I would build thousands of them.
But I am not the devil. I am a believer in Christ hopefully learning to follow a little better as time goes on.
I thank God for people like Chris Geer and those other wonderful spiritual giants that I witnessed at Gartmore House in 1994-1995.
I thank God for all those who continue to fight the good fight to really help people come to know the Lord Jesus Christ. Yes, there is sometimes pain and treachery. In a battle there are going to be some casualties. There are going to be some wounds that need some healing. There are going to be mistakes made.
But I also look forward to our Lord’s return when things are going to really be put straight.
Hill, couple of points - "personality disorders" - interesting topic to this thread. Having met Chris in 1970 and known him off and on for about 15 years plus, I think he had a lot to overcome, from his youth to adulthood. It's difficult to really know what a person deals with inside, what pressures past and present guide and forge their development but I always thought Chris had a lot to deal with in that category. Even as a young man he was uncomfortable in casual social settings, quick to criticize and ostracize those around him, eager to regiment. Regimented activity often replaces natural interaction for people who feel vulnerable and at risk. They protect themselves by trying to control their environment, even the most mundane and trivial. Focusing on trivial activity and developing protocols for everything reduces the amount of thinking and rethinking if you will, that a person has to do.
So in one way it accounts for his behavior over the years, his approach to a Christian life. The Chris of the 80's was in over his head, to put it mildly. But that was a long time ago. What he's doing now, I have no idea but I do have a great deal of sympathy for his situation with Barbara and her health. Last I heard she was ill, and I would wish that on no one. I hope they've found a life together that gives them some peace and purpose.
This does relate to the topic of finding a church or place to fellowship with other Christians and to learn and contribute in. One of the things sorely needed is mature Christian pastoring, the consistent and loving partnership with others who will actively watch over the participants and look out for their interests, both as a community and as individuals.
This involves more than teaching, and in fact may not include teaching at times. It's a human, one-on-one participation in life, day to day, over time. Rather than interceding at specific points it's ongoing, where the relationhip is, at best, natural and in the flow of events as they occur.
That's a key ingredient to look for in a church and why, I think, many churches can be chosen from. It has less to do with what's spoken from the lectern and more to do with what's done.
It may be that Chris has come to some maturity in his life at this point, I'd hope so. "Classes" are of little interest to me, regardless of how they're presented. Of the people I've spoken to who take these classses, they seem nice enough but tend to be legalistic nit-pickers, keenly interested in criticizing what others do and teach. Not all of course. But that's where I think the pastoring element comes in.
Where you have loving men and women who put the others' interests first and genuinely seek to help others, it shows. Many churches offer that as a result of the time and training they require of their pastors before they're turned loose on a church. Ex-Way groups can have people who mean well, usually, but simply have never had or taken the time and effort to be trained that way. There's little breadth of learning or experience, so much of what's learned is self-generated with little particpation from others. This can easily allow a person to head off in a wrong direction with no one there to see or know, let along guide and help them.
Socks, thanks for your thoughful statements. I didn't know Chris in the early years. When I was at Gartmore House I didn't have any negative filters. He was in top form. He was one of the first I heard mention professional counseling as an option. I posted the part about attention getting personality disorder because as a guy who has tried to run a decent home fellowship - I used to confuse it with spiritual problems. I have even been of accused of having spiritual problems myself when really the problem was depression and mental anguish. I agree that there is a shortage of good mature Christian pastors. If you find one I think it must be a real gift.
One of the reasons I have posted what I have posted is because I saw good things not bad things. I experienced healing and deliverance. No matter - some will only remember the bad. Although I am highly critical of denominations - I know that there can be very good people who attend them and work for them. Having grown up in Tulsa - I have been surrounded by the Word Faith groups and their seed money hype. I think we have to be very careful about them. The first fellowship I went to was a home fellowship run by a woman associated with ORU. It was a model I learned to enjoy. I like the home fellowship model. It works for us.
Geer has challenged official Way leader Craig Martindale
in a series of stormy meetings at the organization's Ohio headquarters,
claiming that evil spirits have invaded the hierarchy. He claims
Wierwille, who visited him in Scotland just before he died,
gave him his last will and testament as he could trust no one
else. Sunday Mail, 9/30/90, 1, 6-7.
Former member and Way leader in Ireland Padraig Butterly
- who once ran the group's Gartmore House in Scotland - says
that followers lived in fear of being possessed by the Devil,
that grown men and women were reduced to sobbing in corners,
and that leader Chris Geer spoke directly to God. and thought
he was Moses or an Apostle. The 33-year-old pub owner, who
ran Gartmore in 1987, said "The whole thing was a farce..
"
There are quite a few more reports on that website..
I wonder what the "revelations" of pop did on the scotland side of things.. it appears that st. chris was elevated to the status of godhood.. or moghood. People isolated, given a feeling of superiority over the world.. told that devils await them outside of his "household".. berated, reduced to sobbing in corners of the place.. what's with that? This doesn't sound a whole heck of a lot different than what loy did to the "faithful" in the U.S.
I would say that "mr" geer indeed has brought a whole lot of "baggage" into his "ministry"..
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socks
You guys are the best! You bring meaning and direction even when I myself, socks, have trouble finding it.
johnj, my apologies for derailing this thread somewhat in what may appear like a cheap grab for attention and some free marketing mileage for my new(est) endeavor, the Butt Socks, but since excatiski stumbled so innocently on it I sensed destiny blowing my way. In hindsight I'd still have to say though, it seemed the right thing to do. This is no doubt due to the fact that I'm not only the inventor of the Butt Sock, I am also a user! Improved hindsight is just one of the many benefits regular wearing produces.
Sorry, I'll say no more. Hilton's people are on the line and if she got wind that I've blown the cover on this - well, I think she's suffered enough. But I can say that the B.S. itself will be available to GS'ers in various sizes and colors, at a drastically reduced price -
NO! Wait! Make that - absolutely free! and at no cost to anyone, ever! In fact, B.S. will be offered ONE TIME ONLY in a special franchise arrangement to the first 100 respondents!!! Think of it - your own opportunity to carve out of a piece of the American Dream...and with a product that actually HELPS PEOPLE!!!
All of this and more will available soon for a minimal Setup and Geo-Fee of 3,999.00 US, a small amount really when you consider all that you're going to get and I, socks, guarantee that you're really going to get it once you get online with this new B.S. !!! Not to worry, there's no charge for the product itself, as I intend to keep money out of this.
If you're tired of working for someone else, seeing bills pile up, and hearing the same old stuff over and over STOP HERE and mark your calendars!!!! Help is on the way! As a Certified Seller of B.S. you will be able to offer this incredible new product, in a package that sells itself. The Butt Sock is so good it makes good look bad. And at this price there's no reason everyone can't be a C.S. for B.S. !!!! It's almost too good, really. I'm surprised I'm doing it, but it's the least that I, socks, can do and doing the least I can is what life is all about isn't it?
Speaking of this thread, I don't know where Chis Geer is. I wanted to make a contribution before I get back to this important work I've undertaken (but it's happy work, really).
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Ham
Socks.. all I can say,
"I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy.."
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Gregory A. Hill
Where’s Chris Geer?
Well if it’s still the same Chris Geer I knew, he’s doing everything he can to love God with all his heart, soul, mind and strength. He’s doing everything he can to love and help people. That’s the Chris Geer I saw at Gartmore House in 1994 and 1995.
“What makes us think we’re so qualified to counsel people?”
Remember, I told you that was the question posed by Chris in the lunchroom at Gartmore House in 1995? To me, that was some incredible delivering stuff. He then went on to speak of how extensive training and knowledge was required and how much time might be required and so forth… That was something I never had heard back in the states. I had never heard someone from the previous ministry say that. And although Chris didn’t say it – to me it meant that at times it was right on to get these people to a real certified professional counselor or psychiatrist or whatever was required to get them some real help.
You see, there are people that have personality disorders that really cause them problems their whole lives unless they get them fixed. These people can cause problems for everyone around them as well. They can literally destroy a church. The problem can just be a flesh problem. Most of the times it is not a spiritual problem, it is a personality disorder of the flesh.
You start trying to cast out a devil spirit that’s not even in them then and you’re just going to make the situation worse.
These people need real professional help. I guarantee you some arrogant incompetent redneck boob from OKC isn’t going to get the job done. It’s going to take a real pro to get those issues resolved.
For reference, I thought I would include a link to a website I found regarding these personality disorders. Read it and you will see what I mean. I’ve seen people that had these personality disorders – I confused it with spirit – and guess what, I did not help the situation. Things got worse. I’m serious look at it. It may really open your eyes.
Here’s the linkèhttp://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/attent.htm
Now I thought I would consider John Judas recommendations to return to a real denomination as a solution to help ourselves and other folks.
I may not like his Crap Crap article but maybe he still had some really good advice. Heck why not. So I opened up them phone book. Man there must thousands of churches in Tulsa County I can go to. So I thought I would take the wife down to the latest greatest Pentecostal Holiness church down on 11th street. But then I remembered, I’d been there before – They all speak in tongues out loud at the same time without any interpretation, That’s right they roll around in the floors and aisles’ they’re singing and dancing in the “spirit” and people are getting slain in the spirit right and left all in the name of Jesus. They’re fallin’ all over the place.
So I thought, I think we’d be better off going to a different denom.
Hey why not go to the oldest one known. Yea, that’s the ticket. You know the one where you confess your sins to the man in the cube. And then the man in the cube says in auto responder type fashion – bless you son thy sins be forgive go in peace. You know the one where you learn to say the same prayer 50 times to a dead person.
On third thought, I think my wife and I will just have a simple fellowship at home and study and teach from the Bible ourselves. You know, really ask our Lord what he wants us to do. And try to love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength and our neighbors as ourself. Perhaps we’ll sing “Jesus is all the world to me” and pray and love each other without all that other CRAP CRAP.
God’s best to you,
Gregory A. Hill
North Tulsa County
Summer 2007
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dmiller
I never knew CG, but this stands pre-eminant, regardless of what he teaches today.
PASSING OF THE PATRIARCH.
:)
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dmiller
Greg -- Hey there. :)
Do yourself a favor, and get hold of Keith
(a poster here on this site from Bloomington, Indiana),
who is doing exactly the same thing.
Both you and he (imo) have much in common. He runs his own home fellowships as well.
I have his phone number somerwhere here, and if I find it, I'll PM it to you.
Having met him, I know he wouldn't mind talking to you. :)
He is as gracious as they come.
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Gregory A. Hill
Where’s Chris Geer?
Well, if it’s the man I knew a Gartmore House he’s doing all he can to love God with all his heart, soul, mind and strength. He’s doing all he can to love and help those around him. He’s getting up early every morning with God on his mind and he’s producing some of the finest work available today.
But could it be better?
When I look back at those wonderful times at Gartmore House I begin to realize that it was more than just Chris Geer. Chris was surrounded by some of the most committed hard working “women” believers I have ever known. They followed his example – perhaps some exceeded his example. When you’re surrounded by committed believers that really want to know God’s Word and carry out our Lord’s instruction, you know what’s going to happen – God will help their teacher produce what’s needed.
When I think back, I would call those women “spiritual giants” even though some were less than 5’ tall. They loved God so much they had no problem telling 6’5” big men where to get off. They’d walk right up to a big arrogant incompetent boob and reprove them with God’s Word and God’s Love. They were full of courage. No wonder there was so much deliverance going on. No wonder we were seeing so much.
These spiritual giants had names: Barbara, Helga, Renate, Cathy, Maria, Maura, Helen, Wendy, Nicky, Vickie, and perhaps others. They got me straightened out pretty quick. These wonderful women loved God and loved others. They put the work in buddy. They made Gartmore House rock and roll on God’s Word.
They made up the rank and file of the Lord’s Army at Gartmore House. They got things done right day after day, week after week, month after month and year after year. They handled that pressure bay.
I’ll shoot straight. Most men could never handle the physical and spiritual pressure that these kick foot soldiers did – Gartmore house would have been just a building without them.
Thank you - you women. Thanks for helping me.
After coming back to the states and taking WIGP class at different locales. I noticed the lack of female soldiers. For some reason it seems that when a woman gets married, they’re almost treated as second-class citizens. But in reality, I see many of these wives are harder working and sharper than their husbands. Why is it that so many men will not drop the ego and just admit it? I’ve read Ephesians and Timothy – I know what it says – but as far as I’m concerned half the body Christ is put down at marriage and I don’t think that we fully understand those scriptures.
Some of these class presenters are knuckleheads.
Frankly, some of the women would do a better job. The finest presenter of WIGP that I’ve met was a man named Mi*e N*vak. When I took classes that he presented they were just great. To me the difference between he and others was that he did not interject his personality or ego during the presentation. He did not embellish nor try to add his own twist to the class. He didn’t ask stupid questions at the end of the sessions. You got that Johnny T? MN just presented the material and enjoyed doing it. It was fun.
Why not just cut the crap and roll the tape?
I heard that MN stopped presenting and I’m not sure why? I suspect that a couple of arrogant incompetent boobs and an attention getting personality disorder were the cause?
I also heard one presenter once say “that he really wasn’t interested in learning anything new.” You know what’s going to happen to a man or woman who is no longer interested in learning anything new? THEY ARE NOT GOING TO LEARN ANYTHING NEW. Get a grip man. Seems to me that a good presenter should be highly interested in growing and learning more about God, His Word and the Things of God.
But, I’ve seen other things as well.
B*ian H*an*y is the finest teacher of God’s Word that I have seen since our return to the States. He teaches hot Bible. There’s one problem. Others don’t recognize it. I have seen him teach from the scriptures, accurately from the scriptures and then others stop him and say stupid stuff like “hey that’s not the way Chris.
Hey man Chris isn’t the Pope!
He’s still learning. Isn’t he? Some of those study guides are going to change I can almost guarantee it. You’ve got to teach what God wants you to teach no matter what anybody else says. Sometimes the words you speak will be different than the KJV or even the Study Guide and guess what we checked Br*an’s so called mistake – IT WAS RIGHT ON from the critical Greek texts and Papyri.
Where’s Chris Geer? If he’s doing what I saw at Gartmore House well I’ve told you what he’s doing.
But he did lose a lot of those wonderful woman - those spiritual giants.
Or did he?
Gregory A. Hill
North Tulsa County
Summer 2007
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coolchef
my dear mr. hill
i bet chris was screwing all of those female soldiers
he did mine
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Larry N Moore
Can't figure out if you're speaking from personal experience or just plain jealousy. Or did you have an arrangement of swapping your female soldiers for his?
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socks
Hill, couple of points - "personality disorders" - interesting topic to this thread. Having met Chris in 1970 and known him off and on for about 15 years plus, I think he had a lot to overcome, from his youth to adulthood. It's difficult to really know what a person deals with inside, what pressures past and present guide and forge their development but I always thought Chris had a lot to deal with in that category. Even as a young man he was uncomfortable in casual social settings, quick to criticize and ostracize those around him, eager to regiment. Regimented activity often replaces natural interaction for people who feel vulnerable and at risk. They protect themselves by trying to control their environment, even the most mundane and trivial. Focusing on trivial activity and developing protocols for everything reduces the amount of thinking and rethinking if you will, that a person has to do.
So in one way it accounts for his behavior over the years, his approach to a Christian life. The Chris of the 80's was in over his head, to put it mildly. But that was a long time ago. What he's doing now, I have no idea but I do have a great deal of sympathy for his situation with Barbara and her health. Last I heard she was ill, and I would wish that on no one. I hope they've found a life together that gives them some peace and purpose.
This does relate to the topic of finding a church or place to fellowship with other Christians and to learn and contribute in. One of the things sorely needed is mature Christian pastoring, the consistent and loving partnership with others who will actively watch over the participants and look out for their interests, both as a community and as individuals.
This involves more than teaching, and in fact may not include teaching at times. It's a human, one-on-one participation in life, day to day, over time. Rather than interceding at specific points it's ongoing, where the relationhip is, at best, natural and in the flow of events as they occur.
That's a key ingredient to look for in a church and why, I think, many churches can be chosen from. It has less to do with what's spoken from the lectern and more to do with what's done.
It may be that Chris has come to some maturity in his life at this point, I'd hope so. "Classes" are of little interest to me, regardless of how they're presented. Of the people I've spoken to who take these classses, they seem nice enough but tend to be legalistic nit-pickers, keenly interested in criticizing what others do and teach. Not all of course. But that's where I think the pastoring element comes in.
Where you have loving men and women who put the others' interests first and genuinely seek to help others, it shows. Many churches offer that as a result of the time and training they require of their pastors before they're turned loose on a church. Ex-Way groups can have people who mean well, usually, but simply have never had or taken the time and effort to be trained that way. There's little breadth of learning or experience, so much of what's learned is self-generated with little particpation from others. This can easily allow a person to head off in a wrong direction with no one there to see or know, let along guide and help them.
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Larry N Moore
Socks that was quite a good analysis you put forth there. If I may --- When you say: "Having met Chris in 1970 and known him off and on for about 15 years plus" --- In what capacity did you know Chris?
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excathedra
what ?
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Larry N Moore
excathedra, look up the word speculate and you'll see I was following someone else's lead.
I suppose, I could have simply said (as you have) -- What?
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excathedra
thanks lar, i'll take your word for it
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Larry N Moore
:) I'm not so sure I would take my own word for anything. I sometimes forget what I say.
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excathedra
me too so we're even
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Larry N Moore
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excathedra
well that's exactly what the prince of the power of the airwaves wants
but i will believe for a big set of hedges (of protection) for you
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socks
LNM - I met him while visiting the fellowships in New York. Capacity over the years - Way Corps and while on staff at the Way Nash.
So far you've gotten a butt and an answer. I'm about ready to receive a Love Offering here. Anything you'd like to share?
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Gregory A. Hill
Where’s Chris Geer?
If he is still doing what I saw him doing with my own eyes at Gartmore House in 1994 and 1995, he is producing some incredible “eye opening” highest quality Biblical Teachings. He’s loving God first and foremost. He’s trying to help everyone around him as much as he can. He’s not wasting time or motion. He’s working from before dawn til late at night. And those near him are reaping the benefits if they are believing God’s Word.
I saw with my own eyes a man under the most extreme pressure still continue to love God, teach His Word and do the best he could to help those around him. It was one of the greatest examples of Christ-in service I have witnessed in the world today. I saw things and heard things that normally we only read about in the Bible.
Not once did he raise his voice.
He seemed always on the look out for ways to help those around him. Personally, he was gentle, kind, very patient and very, very helpful. He didn’t just talk either – he expended energy in motion. He and those with him worked their butts off. They carried others like me on their backs until we could start walking on our own.
One thing I have learned is that no matter how much one gives and works and loves – most people seem to always under appreciate it. People always seem to want more and more and they can be very critical and even cruel to those that are doing their best to really serve the Lord Jesus Christ as God would have them to do.
It’s been said before - sometimes the greatest things in our lives are never fully appreciated until they are gone missing.
No matter what happened at Gartmore Hose, no matter what happens to Chris. Our Lord has a name – Jesus. Jesus Christ is our Lord.
And no matter what Dr. John Judeus wants to print. To attack a minister of Jesus Christ just hurts the body of Christ. If he thinks denominations are the answer, then I’ll remind him – True Christianity never started as a denomination. It was at first labeled by the world as a cult.
If I were the devil fighting against the Lord Jesus Christ – I think that one of the first things I would do is build a denomination with men in cubes and auto responder messages pre queued. I would build in it a religious hierarchy of arrogant incompetent boobs with hundreds of rules and regulations. And I would do all I could to put the traditions of men above the Word of God as it was originally given. I would make as many people as possible become dependent on these incompetent blind guides. I would build extravagant seminaries to widen the snare. I would make it almost impossible for people to ever really study the Word of God for themselves. I’d do everything possible to keep them from truly knowing Christ.
And I wouldn’t just stop at one denomination either – I would build thousands of them.
But I am not the devil. I am a believer in Christ hopefully learning to follow a little better as time goes on.
I thank God for people like Chris Geer and those other wonderful spiritual giants that I witnessed at Gartmore House in 1994-1995.
I thank God for all those who continue to fight the good fight to really help people come to know the Lord Jesus Christ. Yes, there is sometimes pain and treachery. In a battle there are going to be some casualties. There are going to be some wounds that need some healing. There are going to be mistakes made.
But I also look forward to our Lord’s return when things are going to really be put straight.
Gregory A. Hill
North Tulsa County
Summer 2007
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Gregory A. Hill
Socks, thanks for your thoughful statements. I didn't know Chris in the early years. When I was at Gartmore House I didn't have any negative filters. He was in top form. He was one of the first I heard mention professional counseling as an option. I posted the part about attention getting personality disorder because as a guy who has tried to run a decent home fellowship - I used to confuse it with spiritual problems. I have even been of accused of having spiritual problems myself when really the problem was depression and mental anguish. I agree that there is a shortage of good mature Christian pastors. If you find one I think it must be a real gift.
One of the reasons I have posted what I have posted is because I saw good things not bad things. I experienced healing and deliverance. No matter - some will only remember the bad. Although I am highly critical of denominations - I know that there can be very good people who attend them and work for them. Having grown up in Tulsa - I have been surrounded by the Word Faith groups and their seed money hype. I think we have to be very careful about them. The first fellowship I went to was a home fellowship run by a woman associated with ORU. It was a model I learned to enjoy. I like the home fellowship model. It works for us.
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Danny
Let see did the devil act all crazy talking to Jesus.
No he was quite calm and knew the bible.
A little tainted but knew his bible.
Bet he did some great teachings and had lots of
women with power.
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Ham
I dunno..
Is this the same Chris Geer?
I know it is old stuff.. but here is the link:
http://www.whyaretheydead.net/misc/Factnet/CO0590AC.TXT
There are quite a few more reports on that website..
I wonder what the "revelations" of pop did on the scotland side of things.. it appears that st. chris was elevated to the status of godhood.. or moghood. People isolated, given a feeling of superiority over the world.. told that devils await them outside of his "household".. berated, reduced to sobbing in corners of the place.. what's with that? This doesn't sound a whole heck of a lot different than what loy did to the "faithful" in the U.S.
I would say that "mr" geer indeed has brought a whole lot of "baggage" into his "ministry"..
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Ham
This was another person's experience, or perception of his experience there.
Cameras all over the place? I can only offer a theory. To BE God, you have to be LIKE God. Everywhere present, ya know..
and the only reply these mog types give, that I personally have ever heard, to these kind of reports:
"These people are POSSESSED. If you even listen to them, YOU WiLL BE TOO". Yep, I've been to those kind of meetings..
The way I feel about it.. if a person managed to have a good experience or outcome, they were plain "lucky"..
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