Where's Chris Geer?

[likeaneagle]

My former roommate rec'd it..I dont know the address. I think its called,"Glimpses of Truth"

[WhiteDove]

"Glimpses of Truth" is available for free upon request at this address

Word Promotions P.O. Box 116 South Casco ME 04077 USA

PS it is not a monthly Journal - it is when you see it in your mailbox it's here.

Edited June 18, 2007 by WhiteDove

[Linda Z]

Danny, yes, the Chris N in the video clips is the Chris N from F7.

[Eagle]

I hope Chris' publications are not another series of "posthumously yours, V.P. Wierwille..." Can he do anything else?

As far as his wife is concerned, I deeply sympathize with her MS. Georgio is right...NO ONE deserves that...not Mrs. Geer, and not even Chris. I pray they find a cure for that or God heals her outright in Jesus' name.

[WhiteDove]

I hope Chris' publications are not another series of "posthumously yours, V.P. Wierwille..." Can he do anything else?

While Future Considerations did publish many posthumous articles, in contrast Glimpses of Truth articles are authored by Chris. Some have been edited from the Gartmore teachings.

[dmiller]

A LINK TO LOOK AT.

:)

[WhiteDove]

David

While not a bad review overall, in fairness I would point out that while Dr Juedes is entitled to his opinion he does present some erroneous facts and implications in his assessment.

[coolchef]

Chris newcomb was one of the greatest guys i ever met!!

period.

[excathedra]

While Future Considerations did publish many posthumous articles, in contrast Glimpses of Truth articles are authored by Chris. Some have been edited from the Gartmore teachings.

i'd rather not glimpse

[Ham]

I would not either, glimpse that is..

I don't see the whole world beating a path to his door, so to speak..

maybe he can post here.. but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I would like to know what he's learned.. dealing with a situation that really is "terminal". I've had to look at that possibility once.

How does the concept of mogness apply there.. he's the same as any other human being..

I'd like for one moment these men of "greatness" to just lower the defenses, and really say what they feel..

[Eagle]

Thank you, White Dove. I hadn't known that Chris Geer did a few of his own. I'll refrain from saying what I said in the future. I was too used to seeing the "posthumously V.P. Wierwille" stuff when I was with TWI post POP.

John Juedes does have some issues I debate as well. I don't know his college background, either. I just assume he got his doctorate from a major theological seminary, or at least I suppose. And in fairness, he doesn't agree with everything I believe, either.

[Thomas Loy Bumgarner]

Steve, John Judes(sp) is a pastor from the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod which is more conservative than my ELCA(Evangelical Lutheran Church in America)background.

[johnj]

David

While not a bad review overall, in fairness I would point out that while Dr Juedes is entitled to his opinion he does present some erroneous facts and implications in his assessment.

Could you give some examples of the erroneous facts and implications? I think it's important to correct these kinds of things so that the info is accurate and true. Thanks...

[WhiteDove]

John I received your PM request for the information, while I'm not sure of the value of the effort as I doubt it will affect any change of mind for either of us. I will try to get a moment to reply to you. Our difference may be in interpretation of written data, I'll consider that as well. I'll send my thoughts on the matter to you via the PM system for your consideration when I can. Thanks for your patience.

Edited June 22, 2007 by WhiteDove

[rascal]

I never saw anything on his web sight concerning twi that was incorrect. Uncomfortable when considering that a group that I once whole heartedly endorsed and represented perhaps, but not inaccurate.

Edited June 22, 2007 by rascal

[WhiteDove]

Some people think OJ is innocent after looking at the court record..... Shrug Their agenda guides them as well. Eyes not emotion make all the difference in how things look!

Edited June 22, 2007 by WhiteDove

[rascal]

Eyes not emotion?? I suppose one would have to shut down ones very heart and humanity to ignore the poigniant stories of suffering endured at the hands of twi leaders one reads there.

There are reasons that these men felt that it was ok to commit the atrocities that are shared on JJ`s sight. I don`t think that doctrinal soundness or spiritual healthiness are some of them.

The stories related are true, one can only draw the conclusion that they will....

I think that it is wrong to accuse Dr. Juedes of not being accurate because of where the evidence that is contained in his web site points.

[WhiteDove]

Truth has nothing to do with how one feels It is true because it stands the test for truth some of which are

1. the true or actual state of a matter: He tried to find out the truth.

2. conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement.

3. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like: mathematical truths.

4. the state or character of being true.

5. actuality or actual existence.

Notice lacking also is "I like the way it agrees with my personal dislike for _______ "so that makes it truth, and therein lies the problem. That's why eyes not emotion is necessary to find truth. Also lacking in truth is any mention of peoples reasons for or not for doing anything. Why? and truth are not related. Why someone does something or says something has nothing to do with whether it is true or not, again truth must be based on items like 1-5 above (See definition of truth) The judge does not care why you chose to break the law in court only if you did.

I think that it is wrong to accuse Dr. Juedes of not being accurate because of where the evidence that is contained in his web site points.

You assume wrong again.......

My remarks had nothing to do with where this points, it has to do with facts not everyone makes decisions based on personal hate here or emotion. I unlike you could care less where anything seems to point My interest is in line by line facts are they true or are they not (see truth above)

I'll discuss this with John as I can but here are just for you Rascal just a couple of non facts

Every one of Geer's topics in WIGP comes from PFAL,"

Not true many certainly, not every. The conclusions in much of the Word Promotions material arrives at a different place than VPW

Geer throws around fewer Greek terms, probably because, like most of Wierwille's hand-picked leadership, he lacked the seminary training in Biblical languages and interpretation that Wierwille had.

Speculation ,a guess not fact or truth. The truth is he does not know why, hence the word PROBABLY. He assumes to the negative that Chris is unlearned because that is the focus of his site to look for the negative, one could also present a case that it was by design that Greek was omitted in many cases due to the complaints that The way often threw around Greek words to look intellectual which those not having a background in Greek could not refute so it was accepted. Perhaps he wanted to explain things in simple English....... Also he failed to take into consideration that on the research staff for this class work were people that had the expertise in Greek had Chris wanted to use it but failed to have the personal research ability , like Walter Cummins and Maria Shriver sp? who speaks Greek better than most speak English.

So you see Rascal I deal in facts/ truth not how I feel makes it right.

Edited June 22, 2007 by WhiteDove

[johnj]

Not true many certainly, not every. The conclusions in much of the Word Promotions material arrives at a different place than VPW

Speculation ,a guess not fact or truth. The truth is he does not know why, hence the word PROBABLY. He assumes to the negative that Chris is unlearned because that is the focus of his site to look for the negative, one could also present a case that it was by design that Greek was omitted in many cases due to the complaints that The way often threw around Greek words to look intellectual which those not having a background in Greek could not refute so it was accepted. Perhaps he wanted to explain things in simple English....... Also he failed to take into consideration that on the research staff for this class work were people that had the expertise in Greek had Chris wanted to use it but failed to have the personal research ability , like Walter Cummins and Maria Shriver sp? who speaks Greek better than most speak English.

So you see Rascal I deal in facts/ truth not how I feel makes it right.

WhiteDove-

Thanks for some of the details you mention above. There is a difference between facts and specualtion, as above. But my article distiinguishes between the two, by using "probably" for an inference based on certain other facts (namely, he doesn't use Greek much, several of VP's books mangle some Greek passages, and most Corps were not competent in Greek, tho a few were). There's nothing wrong with including both facts and inferences in articles, as long as you identify them accordingly. If I read your post correctly (correct me if I'm wrong) I take you to say that Geer does not have capability in Greek (if he was capable, he wouldn't even need to consider using Cummins to help him). So my "probably" appears to be correct.

If he is capable in Greek, please tell me and I'll take that line out. Is he?

The article doesn't appraise all of Word Productions material, just WIGP. No doubt Geer does have some different takes on some things than VP did. Whenever somebody moves to "the top" as Geer did in WP, he's going to make some changes or additions. I'm looking thru the table of contents for WIGP right now. Out of the 58 chapter topics and 3 appendices, I don't see any that Greasespot readers wouldn't read and say"hey- I heard/read that in PFAL!"

I've heard that Chris Geer teaches summers at The Ranch in Meridian Idaho. Can you tell us anything about it?

[WhiteDove]

WhiteDove-

Thanks for some of the details you mention above. There is a difference between facts and specualtion, as above. But my article distiinguishes between the two, by using "probably" for an inference based on certain other facts (namely, he doesn't use Greek much, several of VP's books mangle some Greek passages, and most Corps were not competent in Greek, tho a few were). There's nothing wrong with including both facts and inferences in articles, as long as you identify them accordingly. If I read your post correctly (correct me if I'm wrong) I take you to say that Geer does not have capability in Greek (if he was capable, he wouldn't even need to consider using Cummins to help him). So my "probably" appears to be correct.

If he is capable in Greek, please tell me and I'll take that line out. Is he?

The article doesn't appraise all of Word Productions material, just WIGP. No doubt Geer does have some different takes on some things than VP did. Whenever somebody moves to "the top" as Geer did in WP, he's going to make some changes or additions. I'm looking thru the table of contents for WIGP right now. Out of the 58 chapter topics and 3 appendices, I don't see any that Greasespot readers wouldn't read and say"hey- I heard/read that in PFAL!"

I've heard that Chris Geer teaches summers at The Ranch in Meridian Idaho. Can you tell us anything about it?

John you would have to ask Chris about his capabilities in Greek I can't speak for him. Having heard some 362 Gartmore tapes as well as various classes and several years of journals I believe that from all indications he could easily handle the Greek work in a foundational class on his own . I think you misread my statement, the point was that even if he was not able on his own to do so, which I believe he would be. There were others that could have done the work so it still would have been included. In other words there would have been no absence for you to form a probably about.

Your quote" Geer throws around fewer Greek terms, probably because, like most of Wierwille's hand-picked leadership, he lacked the seminary training in Biblical languages and interpretation that Wierwille had." says that there is a lack of Greek terms which you attribute to his lack of ability. Having around others who could have made up for that and supplied all the terms needed. Who would know? There would have been no lack. Had he wanted more Greek in the class he had two options one have someone do the work and use it without reference two he could have referred to Walter and the fact that he or others confirmed the Greek work as VPW did on occasion. Why leave it out when he had other options? The fact is it's not there because he purposely omitted it not because he or Walter who by the way is another of those VPW "hand picked leadership' who certainly does not fit in your guess concerning ability. There were others as well on that class faculty. Which by the way does not mean that the teacher did not have the ability either its smart to have others input and thoughts even the best minds make human mistakes with all the ability in the world. Having others does not support his ability or lack .

Regarding topics John I see you changed your quote..... like Eve you added a word

Every one of Geer's topics in WIGP comes from PFAL,"

Every topic and every chapter topic as you now phrase it, are not the same thing. There are many topics that are not chapter headings I think the word you are searching for there is Many or Most that would be a factually accurate description.

As long as we are doing this here now I also take exception with this as well

He does send a newsletter to his followers.)

Glimpses of Truth is available on request , it has nothing to do with following I know lots of people who get his letter who are part of other groups or none at all for that matter. I even know some GreaseSpotters who get it..... Gasp are they followers? In fact one would be hard pressed to find a following at all for that matter. I have received the thing for years and I certainly have never been requested to follow anyone, nor have I been asked for any monetary donation at any time either. What was your purpose in ascribing followers to him that do not exist? Was it to give him a cult following so you could portray him as a leader? He sure is doing a p*ss poor job of being a MOG leader if he hasn't even let us know we are supposed to be following him and sending our money his way Really......... These are the kind of subtle trigger words that lace your article they imply things that are not factual or true and I failed to see anywhere where you noted that accordinly.

Edited June 24, 2007 by WhiteDove

[WordWolf]

A) Please give one example (feel free to give more than one) of a topic in WIGP that-in your

estimation-does not come from pfal.

Never having taken it, I have no way to know if any exist,

nor if things I don't consider a "topic" are being considered as such.

I don't consider off-hand comments made in passing between subjects that are the focus

of a class to be "topics",

and I don't know if that's what you're referring to.

So please give an example and then we'll all know.

B) Juedes' site's materials were not written last week, nor are they updated daily

with a continuous newsfeed.

The articles were written with the perspective of the time they were written,

and reflect that-

or reflect the perspective of their most recent update, whenever that was.

If the answers at ONE TIME are accurately recorded, and events change,

the non-changing of an article is not proof of an agenda, it's proof the

article needs updating.

That becomes more the case when it's based on a subject that keeps a low profile.

One need not presuppose a conspiracy where scarcity of news is present.

You don't presuppose a conspiracy and agenda about cg lacking an online presence

of any kind, do you? Please be even-handed and fair when making accusations.

If you find something that needs correcting, you can just say

"I think this needs correcting."

As it is, I think that sentence DOES need correcting, and the words "to his followers"

is better left off no matter how the sentence will read with an adjustment.

I'm making a wild guess here, but I suspect Juedes appreciates being able to correct

his articles to make them more accurate, and thus appreciates the notice.

(Whether or not he appreciates the lecture tacked-on to it.)

[now I see]

JohnJ,

you said:

I've heard that Chris Geer teaches summers at The Ranch in Meridian Idaho. Can you tell us anything about it?

Are you referring to Dana Armstr*ng's group?  If so. I hear he's got a large vibrant ministry bursting at the seams there, especially with the teens and young people.  

Are they hosting Ge*r?  What does he teach and to whom?

Please say more on the subject, if you please....

[coolchef]

dana armweak is the man i like least in this world!

he abused my children and caused my divorce

dana may you rot in hell withe the other false profits

[johnj]

JohnJ,

you said:

Are you referring to Dana Armstr*ng's group?  If so. I hear he's got a large vibrant ministry bursting at the seams there, especially with the teens and young people.  

Are they hosting Ge*r?  What does he teach and to whom?

Yes, Armstrong, Dave Daniels, Chip Estes. They run Geer classes and help support him. I don't know many details, which is why I am asking for more.

[now I see]

JohnJ,

I don't know much more than what I posted, I got my info second hand from someone else quite a few years ago, maybe someone in the Boise Idaho area or who knows of Armstr*ng's group will post more on the subject.