Unfortunately your premise "when they are gone" is probably not a valid one.
TWI may shrink and shrink, and be a shell of what it once was, but I suspect it will never be "gone" in the way we all hope and dream for it to be no more at all.
The copyrights, the properties, and all BS will simply pass to the next MOG when Rosie gets too old and feeble to maintain her strangle-hold on it.
But, just for fun... if God should wipe them all away with a swipe of His finger... what is the legal path of ownership/responsibility of all things twi? I suspect the lawyers would sell everything off, and then all the cash would end up being spent on "legal fees" while they sort out the details.
I dunno but it sure has shapped my bu tt over the years to see them sell off all of the properties one by one bought with the money that WE contributed, that WE developed and improved with our free slave labor, to see the procedes pocketed by people who had little or no investment involved.
Let's see... 4 hours a day, 23 days of the month, 5-10 people per crew -- figure: repair work, painting, landscaping, clean-up, etc. For how many years and how many pieces of property? (Kipp Farm, Ambassador Farm, Airport House, Emporia, Rome City... what am I forgetting?)
Add to that, 10% of gross or 15% of net, or any various combinations of same, collected from thousands of folks, for decades...
Yeah... somebody definately owes us all some money!!!
(of course, how many of those properties were sold for a profit? Emporia and Rome City sold at a loss, didn't they? Or was twi just being greedy in their original asking price?)
----------------- SORRY, Didn't mean to derail the original thought of this thread... ---------------
The Way Of Ohio limb hq was located on a very nice property that is now at the heart of one of the most desirable real estate locations in Ohio. I do not know what it was worth when they unloaded it or what kind of profit was made on the sale. The point is, though, that TWI had many holdings that the average schmoe was not privy to.
What about things like antique motorcycles and cars? I know the good dr. had a red 1967? Pontiac Bonnieville or Catalina that was restored to mint condition. I know it existed because I rode in it. He also had a vintage Indian motorcycle. Those items were purchased ( as far as I know) with either ABS money or gift donations. What ever became of them or the money generated from their sale?
There are probably a lot of items we can't actually forget because we never even knew they existed.
I am sure that by now the BOT and Rosie have figured out a way to ensure that if the day comes when TWI is truly defunct, the income from sale of properties will find away into their or their heirs coffers.
THATS what bothers me....they have been living high off the proceeds from our labor and sacrifice. They are able to continue to function and hurt people because of the financial abundance that WE gave them.
Well, unfortunately as the Peeler lawsuit proved, there is simply no worldly remedy for that... we trusted the wrong people and gave them rights to our lives and resources we shouldn't have... oops. The end.
I believe the IRS code requires that defunct not-for-profit corporation must transfer its property to another similar not-for-profit. There's no mechanism for the organization to gift it to the founders or any other individuals.
TWI is a 501 c(3) organization according to the IRS - that means it's not for profit and your donations are tax deductible. It also means that it has no owners in the legal sense that a corporation does. When the organization goes defunct, it must give its assets to another such organization. I don't know who gets to decide which one. Nor do I know the legal definition of "defunct." I suspect if they had one person on staff they could meet the legal requirements.
[digression] And there is little restriction on how they spend the money before it goes defunct as long as the spending can be seen as promoting the mission of the organization which allowed it to be 501 c(3) in the first place. That's why when it was deemed necessary for the leadership to travel the IRS doesn't care if they do it on a bicycle, or a private plane as long as the travel is for the organization and not, for example to get personal groceries for a staff member. Are these things violated in lots of little ways? All the time. The IRS doesn't have enough people to check the details of every dollar every group spends. [ end of digression]
ECFA is an accreditation agency dedicated to helping Christian ministries earn the public’s trust through adherence to seven Standards of Responsible Stewardship. Founded in 1979, it is comprised of over 2,000 evangelical Christian organizations, which qualify for tax-exempt, nonprofit status and receive tax-deductible contributions to support their work.
ECFA’s Standards of Responsible Stewardship focus on board governance, financial transparency, integrity in fund-raising, and proper use of charity resources.
Compliance with the Standards is monitored in three ways. First, all ECFA members must annually submit membership review information including audited financial statements, IRS Form 990 (if applicable), salary information, fund-raising appeals, board composition, changes in organizing documents, and much more to verify compliance with the Standards. Second, ECFA conducts on-site field reviews at over 10% of its membership each year. These field reviews serve to verify the information submitted in the annual membership review, confirm compliance with the ECFA membership Standards, and give support to the member organizations. To date, approximately 750 organizations have received an on-site review. Third, ECFA responds to complaints against member organizations. All such complaints are investigated thoroughly in order to determine possible noncompliance with the Standards.
ECFA provides several services to the donor public as well. Disclosure requirements enable donors to request and receive audited financial statements for all ECFA members. ECFA’s website contains a membership directory with selected financial information of all its members, guidelines for giving, the Donor’s Bill of Rights, and general information helpful to the giving public. In addition, ECFA staff provides information to donors on a variety of issues.
Through its regional seminars, website, publications and services, ECFA informs its members of current administrative, financial, fund-raising, legislative, postal, and promotional matters of common concern.
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Ham
hmm. I kinda see it surrounded with barbed wire fence, overgrown, and the only inhabitants the indigenous animals..
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TheHighWay
Glad,
Unfortunately your premise "when they are gone" is probably not a valid one.
TWI may shrink and shrink, and be a shell of what it once was, but I suspect it will never be "gone" in the way we all hope and dream for it to be no more at all.
The copyrights, the properties, and all BS will simply pass to the next MOG when Rosie gets too old and feeble to maintain her strangle-hold on it.
But, just for fun... if God should wipe them all away with a swipe of His finger... what is the legal path of ownership/responsibility of all things twi? I suspect the lawyers would sell everything off, and then all the cash would end up being spent on "legal fees" while they sort out the details.
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rascal
I dunno but it sure has shapped my bu tt over the years to see them sell off all of the properties one by one bought with the money that WE contributed, that WE developed and improved with our free slave labor, to see the procedes pocketed by people who had little or no investment involved.
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TheHighWay
Excellent point, Rascal!!
Let's see... 4 hours a day, 23 days of the month, 5-10 people per crew -- figure: repair work, painting, landscaping, clean-up, etc. For how many years and how many pieces of property? (Kipp Farm, Ambassador Farm, Airport House, Emporia, Rome City... what am I forgetting?)
Add to that, 10% of gross or 15% of net, or any various combinations of same, collected from thousands of folks, for decades...
Yeah... somebody definately owes us all some money!!!
(of course, how many of those properties were sold for a profit? Emporia and Rome City sold at a loss, didn't they? Or was twi just being greedy in their original asking price?)
----------------- SORRY, Didn't mean to derail the original thought of this thread... ---------------
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waysider
"What am I forgetting?"
Limb properties!!!
The Way Of Ohio limb hq was located on a very nice property that is now at the heart of one of the most desirable real estate locations in Ohio. I do not know what it was worth when they unloaded it or what kind of profit was made on the sale. The point is, though, that TWI had many holdings that the average schmoe was not privy to.
What about things like antique motorcycles and cars? I know the good dr. had a red 1967? Pontiac Bonnieville or Catalina that was restored to mint condition. I know it existed because I rode in it. He also had a vintage Indian motorcycle. Those items were purchased ( as far as I know) with either ABS money or gift donations. What ever became of them or the money generated from their sale?
There are probably a lot of items we can't actually forget because we never even knew they existed.
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templelady
I am sure that by now the BOT and Rosie have figured out a way to ensure that if the day comes when TWI is truly defunct, the income from sale of properties will find away into their or their heirs coffers.
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Ham
Plan as they wish.. lessee if indeed they can really schedule the "adversary" out of their lives..
ya know, there may come a time in the not too distant future that all of that money and holdings will be WORTHLESS.
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frank123lol
The red 67 pontiac was Don Wierwill#s I believe,I asked Kevin G about it once,he said there was a story behind it,though he never told me.
My hope for twi land is some will go back to the keeds,and the other gets sold to a religios
group that is honest and sincere in teaching the bible.We sure as hell will see no return from it.
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rascal
THATS what bothers me....they have been living high off the proceeds from our labor and sacrifice. They are able to continue to function and hurt people because of the financial abundance that WE gave them.
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TheHighWay
Well, unfortunately as the Peeler lawsuit proved, there is simply no worldly remedy for that... we trusted the wrong people and gave them rights to our lives and resources we shouldn't have... oops. The end.
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excathedra
so the peeler lawsuit held no weight at all, i assume ?
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Jim
I believe the IRS code requires that defunct not-for-profit corporation must transfer its property to another similar not-for-profit. There's no mechanism for the organization to gift it to the founders or any other individuals.
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excathedra
does that mean shroyer's outfit is busy SIT ing ?
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Watered Garden
Exxie,
That would be the irony or all ironies now wouldn't it? CFF becomes the new TWI?
Still wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
WG
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coolchef
good lord
i can,t even begin to imagine what the property in gunnison is worth!
what a beautiful place
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My3Cents
TWI is a 501 c(3) organization according to the IRS - that means it's not for profit and your donations are tax deductible. It also means that it has no owners in the legal sense that a corporation does. When the organization goes defunct, it must give its assets to another such organization. I don't know who gets to decide which one. Nor do I know the legal definition of "defunct." I suspect if they had one person on staff they could meet the legal requirements.
[digression] And there is little restriction on how they spend the money before it goes defunct as long as the spending can be seen as promoting the mission of the organization which allowed it to be 501 c(3) in the first place. That's why when it was deemed necessary for the leadership to travel the IRS doesn't care if they do it on a bicycle, or a private plane as long as the travel is for the organization and not, for example to get personal groceries for a staff member. Are these things violated in lots of little ways? All the time. The IRS doesn't have enough people to check the details of every dollar every group spends. [ end of digression]
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Kit Sober
I don't suppose twi belongs to ECFA?
What's ECFA?Link to comment
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Ham
I dunno, but I just can't imagine how to frame "Der Vey", "Standards" and "financial stewardship" in the same sentence..
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